Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

Do you agree on my previous interpretation that, had the roles be swapped, so too would have been the outcome, and that Eve's "punishment" of having women being under their husband's cintrol being the outcome of her feeding him the forbidden fruit?

I suppose so. The default man being Idubbbz is a pretty terrifying thought though.

 

[The tired cat]

The real evil was God for imposing his rules on humanity and angels, creating a system to ensure human suffers by banishing them to heaven, where angels are the true evil by imposing their order on the others and the demons, who relish in sin and debauchery, branded evil by angels who defined sins are the the lesser evil and made evil by the abuse and oppression of the angelic order and that, truly, there is no difference between angels and demons, as the snake snake guy becoming an angle proved, as a matter of facts, angels despise for faggotry and trannies, branding such acts as evil and castnig those who practice it to hell is proof enough of their cruel intentions

I mean, I hate to play Mr.Obvious here, but if you think Viv is somehow original in the concept of "God is le dick" part. Then well, look up Garth Ennis Preacher, a movie called Legion, a Korean Manga called "Priest' just as few examples.

 

[Strangolapreti]

I mean, I hate to play Mr.Obvious here, but if you think Viv is somehow original in the concept of "God is le dick" part. Then well, look up Garth Ennis Preacher, a movie called Legion, a Korean Manga called "Priest' just as few examples.

I'll be giving you a better example: The one Onision book where he rapes his sister and kill god because he's super duoer evil.

I suppose so. The default man being Idubbbz is a pretty terrifying thought though.

I think its more a childish/animalistic naivity than simping.
Its paradoxical because Humans couldn't distinguish good from evil before eating the fruit, thus Eve couldn't understand the snake's intentions and Adam ate when Eve told him to do so because he didn't knew better than listen to someone with knowledge, first with God and then with Eve.

 

[ThisIsGonnaBeGood]

Sure.

 

[make_it_so]

"I've seen some shit..."

 

[Second Missing Primarch]

BTW, who on here actually has a Christian background? I’ve been curious for a while about that, and wonder if that is the main things that draws some us, perhaps subconsciously, to these shows.

Born and raised in a Christian home and still a believer, though I've fallen off church a bit. I was initially interested in the pilot for HH based on the concept. It was novel enough that I remember thinking that it could be a really interesting story if executed well. That, in the end, is what offends me most about the show: not that it bastardizes the stories and figures of the Bible for its own mythos, but that it does it so badly. I've read Lewis, Milton, Dante, and Tolkien, and aside from being much better writers than Viv could ever hope to be, they all had interesting and nuanced takes on heaven, hell, sin, redemption, and God that they turned into engaging, thought-provoking works. Lewis wrote one of the greatest villain protagonists of all time in Screwtape and gave us a quietly haunting depiction of Hell in The Great Divorce. Milton managed to make Satan a sympathetic figure in Paradise Lost. Dante's Divine Comedy gave us a depiction of hell that's so iconic it's still influencing the popular imagination to this day. Tolkien gave us the Silmarillion and the Lord of the Rings. Viv was never going to be standing shoulder to shoulder with them, but she at least had a chance to create something interesting and exciting. Instead, she just buried her one interesting idea under a pile of Tumblr slop and Reddit-tier "um ackshually hell is the good guys" rhetoric, and I find that to be an inexcusable waste of her God-given talent when she had the potential to make something more of it.

 

[The Nothingness]

BTW, who on here actually has a Christian background? I’ve been curious for a while about that, and wonder if that is the main things that draws some us, perhaps subconsciously, to these shows.

Throwing in my two cents. Cradle Catholic, still practicing. I say what drew me to Hazbin was this going to be anything new and not be the same "Christianity is le bad" as seen in the likes of Dogma and other aforementioned media. With Helluva, it was the concept of demonic hitmen. And we now seen how both shows turned out.

 

[Irreedemable Ret. 2]

buried her one interesting idea under a pile of Tumblr slop and Reddit-tier "um ackshually hell is the good guys"

The Hazbin Hotel interpretation of Hell is actually is contradictory. First it's portrayed as a brutal dog eat dog place where everyone kills, mutilates and abuse each other free of consequence (which makes the decision of reproducing there very questionable) then as a mystical version of your typical shithole liberal town's areas near campus grounds. Neither feel like a place of eternal suffering for the denizens beyond the usual liberal shithole town stuff. It feels like Vic's ego won't allow her to admit the main thing in her mind are gay twinks and the setting is just a cosmetic.

 

[Strangolapreti]

Incoherent autism.

If that's 100% the genesis according to Gnosticism, its hilarious how it failed to mentions the fruit of life that God didn't want Adam and Eve to eat after they consumed the fruit of knowledge.

Born and raised in a Christian home and still a believer, though I've fallen off church a bit. I was initially interested in the pilot for HH based on the concept. It was novel enough that I remember thinking that it could be a really interesting story if executed well. That, in the end, is what offends me most about the show: not that it bastardizes the stories and figures of the Bible for its own mythos, but that it does it so badly.

HH and HB have more things in common with goodbye volcano high than any masterwork you just mentioned: horrible storytelling, salvageable character designs.
Helluva boss in particular begs for someone to give it the Snoot game's treatment.

With Helluva it was the concept of demonic hitmen, but we saw how that turned out.

I want to say the demon hitmen concept is a good idea that requires a good amount of explainations to set up properly and questions that need at least a basic answer:
How do they do it was the single question that viv answered, and I bet it was done solely as a way to introduce her equivalent to Dave Filoni's Ahsoka (who too gradually turned to Mary Sue territory)
WHY they do it was nonsensically answered with "Money", but really isn't as most customers had just arrived in hell AND hell's currency is not well explained either and as a whole it caused more plot holes than anything.
Why wasn't it done done before (or IF it was done before) also was nonsensically answered, I think, since I am not sure due to not watching the season 2 and any explaination done at this point being a "too little too late" kind of response.
If there are consequences for doing it is something like "what stops imps from just escape to human world and live there happy forever?", which is not as far fetched as a question as you think and can lead to interesting ruling; for example: the cool solution would be having demons on a time limit when on the surface because they get sick if they stay too long, while the less interesting solution is just blaming divine rules or some other shit.

It's all homeworks that flesh out the world and create intrigue, all stuff that can take as little as 1-2 days of research and thinkering to write down, but Viv clearly hates homework and thinks there's no need to flesh out the world as she can just artificially make her own brand of emotionally driven intrigueslop.

The Hazbin Hotel interpretation of Hell is actually is contradictory. First it's portrayed as a brutal dog eat dog place where everyone kills, mutilates and abuse each other free of consequence (which makes the decision of reproducing there very questionable) then as a mystical version of your typical shithole liberal town's areas near campus grounds. Neither feel like a place of eternal suffering for the denizens beyond the usual liberal shithole town stuff. It feels like Vic's ego won't allow her to admit the main thing in her mind are gay twinks and the setting is just a cosmetic.

Under the hands of any other writer, making hell look like a slightly less shitty californian metropolis would have been the greatest piece of satirical commentary immaginable.
The closest I ever had to visit a big city has been walking trough Padua, I hate that place and los angeles is 14 times bigger and 100 times worse.

 

[man_made_of_meat]

BTW, who on here actually has a Christian background? I’ve been curious for a while about that, and wonder if that is the main things that draws some us, perhaps subconsciously, to these shows.

Italian myself, raised Catholic, lost interest in religion when I was a young adolescent (it truly didnt make much sense to me, it was not because of the Internet or whatsoever, i simply did find way more solace reading and spending time drawing, rather than going to Cathechism every Saturday afternoon and learning about the gospels).
I did find HH interesting for the same premises of why I find a good story interesting, the idea behind it. Does the fact that is taking place in heaven and hell make me more invested in it? Not sure, maybe, tendecially I must say that everything that is including morally grey characters is always very fascinating to me. Also, since day one, villains have always been the better written characters in every story, but some rare exceptions, so there s that.

 

[make_it_so]

BTW, who on here actually has a Christian background? I’ve been curious for a while about that, and wonder if that is the main things that draws some us, perhaps subconsciously, to these shows.

Born and raised Catholic, though I haven't been a very consistent practitioner in my adult life. What drew me in was the redemption concept, combined with the idea that all these people from different time periods and different backgrounds would be interacting with and bouncing off of each other. That and it being animated just kind of ticked the right autism boxes.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

You know, one thing that I haven't mentioned is how the majority of Heaven is completely innocent in all this. Because of one incompetent angel, they have been doomed to the wrath of vengeful sinners. Over something they not only didn't participate in, but didn't even know about.

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

>tfw the love of your life was killed by a bunch of remorseless demons and everyone you know is totally OK with this

 

[didelphigina]

BTW, who on here actually has a Christian background? I’ve been curious for a while about that, and wonder if that is the main things that draws some us, perhaps subconsciously, to these shows.

Pentecostal-now-sort-of-on-the-side-religious over here. Christianity has been instilled in my brain all my life. I can remember every gospel song my parents played in the house. Though, younger me was never into reading the bible unless my parents made it interesting to read. Sorry, I couldn't handle through the two hour scripture readings.

I didn't really see HH/HB under a Christian perspective at first. I only saw it through a general one during my earlier watches of them. As I deepened my gradual hatred with how both of these shows have become and seeing how much Vivziepop has beaten the brains of easily impressionable minors and manchildren on the basis of hell, demons and basic Christian mythology honestly upset even someone like me who doesn't actively practice the faith. It doesn't matter if the show is based on other faiths outside Christianity. Most people will see Hazbin Hotel as a show that's meant to be a take on Christianity. It could've been a unique one. An interesting one that subverts the usual "demons good, angels BAD!!" media that used to be considered cool and out there.

But no, it's just a quirky, badly written show made for rebellious "YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO MOM/DAD!!" teenagers who think swearing and being a satanist is cool and subversive and totally not overdone. It could've showed the many different perspectives on how people view redemption. We could've seen a variety of cultures and actual diversity this woman loves thinking she has in the darn show. I'm still upset that everyone acts like rabid millenials and not to their respective era. To Dante's pit with the "but they grew to the modern times" excuse the fandom likes to throw into the fence.

 

[GoodWinSon]

Half the thread is admitting they are Catholics who are/were going through an atheist phase Vivienne Madrano.

 

[Various Shades of Brown]

Trying to wrap my head around some shit that comes to light in Season 2:

• Most Sinners are aware that they're in Hell for a valid reason, across both shows. Vox knows he ran a cult (or a "movement" as he put it) in life, Pentious has always had regrets for witnessing Jack the Ripper's crime spree and refusing to come forward, the teacher in HB turned her husband's affair into a crime scene and then killed herself etc.
• Sera mentions in Season 1 that neither Angels nor Seraphim (and perhaps even higher powers like the Speaker) don't know how souls get into Heaven. They just show up in the clouds outside, St. Peter IDs them, and they're allowed in.

... So are we meant to believe that in the hundreds of thousands of millions of years that the realm of Heaven has been in existence, not a SINGLE fucking angel thought "maybe we should ask them what happened in life in order to determine the criteria for entry"? How the hell does St. Peter ID people and let them into Heaven without knowing what they've done? Is the entire system based on assumption that because a soul arrived in the clouds, they're automatically entitled entry?
Completely forgot to add that the Cherubs run a service in Heaven that allows Winners to reward/bless living people, so by proxy this is also done upon assumption since their superiors don't know shit.

Another subject: According to leaks, Vox ends up capturing Lucifer. Fucking how? He can teleport. HE'S THE KING OF HELL. How weak is he that a random Sinner can overthrow him? Is he going to exploit Lucifer's angelic abilities to get into Heaven? Under what authority? Gahhh.

 

[A Grey Cat]

This episode was...okay.

About the nicest thing anyone can say to an ego maniac with a show like her theae days.

villains have always been the better written characters in every story,

In this story they try making the villians everything they hate, bur end up making the only reason people haven't completely given up on these shows. Often to where they tell better stories with them.

 

[man_made_of_meat]

Half the thread is admitting they are Catholics who are/were going through an atheist phase Vivienne Madrano.

Blame her for this religious revival in KF, pretty sure she will be ecstatic

 

[ThisIsGonnaBeGood]

How the hell does St. Peter ID people and let them into Heaven without knowing what they've done?

Presumably, their name just appears in his book once they arrive at the gates. It's some Neverending Story shit where the thing just writes itself.

 

[man_made_of_meat]

Trying to wrap my head around some shit that comes to light in Season 2:

• Most Sinners are aware that they're in Hell for a valid reason, across both shows. Vox knows he ran a cult (or a "movement" as he put it) in life, Pentious has always had regrets for witnessing Jack the Ripper's crime spree and refusing to come forward, the teacher in HB turned her husband's affair into a crime scene and then killed herself etc.
• Sera mentions in Season 1 that neither Angels nor Seraphim (and perhaps even higher powers like the Speaker) don't know how souls get into Heaven. They just show up in the clouds outside, St. Peter IDs them, and they're allowed in.

... So are we meant to believe that in the hundreds of thousands of millions of years that the realm of Heaven has been in existence, not a SINGLE fucking angel thought "maybe we should ask them what happened in life in order to determine the criteria for entry"? How the hell does St. Peter ID people and let them into Heaven without knowing what they've done? Is the entire system based on assumption that because a soul arrived in the clouds, they're automatically entitled entry?
Completely forgot to add that the Cherubs run a service in Heaven that allows Winners to reward/bless living people, so by proxy this is also done upon assumption since their superiors don't know shit.

Another subject: According to leaks, Vox ends up capturing Lucifer. Fucking how? He can teleport. HE'S THE KING OF HELL. How weak is he that a random Sinner can overthrow him? Is he going to exploit Lucifer's angelic abilities to get into Heaven? Under what authority? Gahhh.

Insert meme If those kids could read they'd be very upset