Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

[Sasmate]

You guys are hate watching this shit?
The last time I tried to do something like that was with goodbye volcano high, didn't even buy it and couldn't even get past the Filler roleplay session.
Viv has to be fucking demented if she think I'll even consiering enduring her goyslop with the excuse of hatewatch.

Personally? Heck no. But it’s pretty fun to look at this thread on occasion to see what autism and faggotry appears

 

[Outer Space Traveller]

Very late reply here but i think Michael is one of those bible names that is so big that someone has to tard wrangle Vivzie and not let her make THE Archangel everyone knows into an edgy twink OC who swears. And she HAS to make Michael a twink edgelord who swears because vivzie cannot write a powerful male character who isn't arrogant/smug faggot to some level. This is why every fanon art of Michal assumes he's a Lucifer clone.

You can't make "Mike" and "Gabe", the messengers who are said to have visited Sodom to see Lot's situation and be faggots. Of course, it isn't explicitly said in the bible, just "two angels", yet considering how Michael was proactive in stopping the threat in Heaven, it can be assumed he was one of them.

As for Gabriel, he is explicitly said to have come to announce the coming of Jesus Christ, so it can be assumed he wouldn't be too keen on things which would be contrary to the laws of God.

The story of Adam and eve sexist? The story of how humanity came to be?...oh wait because it's always told, man was made first and women made from the leftovers....can someone with a larger knowledge of religion/mythology point me to any single story where the creator builds a female first then male? And exhaults women as being superior in the process? I see why man haters like vivzie can't stand most creation stories. It's because almost none of them put the female form on a pedestal because for thousands of years it was the men who built those civilizations to tell those stories to begin with.

All the civilizations that had "mother goddess" that had that, I believe, are long past extinct. Like the "Queen of Heaven", attributed to Innana/Ishtar. Yet of course, they also had a "father god" as well; you can be sure some historians with "modernist" & "post-modernist" leanings would claim otherwise.

I spent I think 45 minutes analyzing a fucking page of the Bible to write this, please tell me that it was either worth it or that I'm some sort of goyniggertrannyfaggot that is wrong and should kill himself NOW.

I think this is good, honestly - I wouldn't offer anything different as an interpretation. I especially liked the humility you showed, something a redditranny atheist wouldn't have.

Side note, I kind of love the fact that Viv originally made this to “Take back hell for the gays” and to be anti-christian, or a bashing on Christianity, and the effect of it for Kiwifarms, the place where we feel safe enough to say all the flavors of slurs, is not only for us to analyze the story and characters as they pertain to those things as well as if they were in a vacuum, but also to read the Bible, Tolkien, Lewis, discuss the Screwtape Letters, the Divine Comedy, Paradise Lost and who knows how much more. There’s just a sort humorous irony to it.

BTW, who on here actually has a Christian background? I’ve been curious for a while about that, and wonder if that is the main things that draws some us, perhaps subconsciously, to these shows.

I would like to know - because I did see that tweet. What did she mean "take back" Hell? What does she mean Hell belongs to people like her?
But in all seriousness, since when did people of her "type" came up with "Hell"? She could claim the Greeks had Tartarus/Hades... but that's a stretch. There was Sheol from the Hebrews. So what does she fucking mean? And even then, there was Mot, the deity who ruled the underworld in Canaanite pantheon. By the way, isn't there a concept of a "Hell" in Asian religions?
Unlike the Christian one, it seems to be a temporal one however; for all the wrongdoings one may have done while alive - even in Buddhism!

And you are right - the whiplash effect of her """taking back Hell""" made a few people have some kinship and talk about cool stuff. As for background, I was a Christian Catholic, then became an annoying fucking atheist, now I am a non-denominational Christian. I like looking for answers and especially proofs for it. Also not stuck to a particular Bible translation.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

Worth it.

Side note, I kind of love the fact that Viv originally made this to “Take back hell for the gays” and to be anti-christian, or a bashing on Christianity, and the effect of it for Kiwifarms, the place where we feel safe enough to say all the flavors of slurs, is not only for us to analyze the story and characters as they pertain to those things as well as if they were in a vacuum, but also to read the Bible, Tolkien, Lewis, discuss the Screwtape Letters, the Divine Comedy, Paradise Lost and who knows how much more. There’s just a sort humorous irony to it.

BTW, who on here actually has a Christian background? I’ve been curious for a while about that, and wonder if that is the main things that draws some us, perhaps subconsciously, to these shows.

I grew up in a pretty Christian home, where I went to church twice on Sunday and once on Wednesday, along with going to almost every activity/event the church would hold. While I'm not a practicing Christian anymore, it would be a lie to say that nothing from the time I was has molded me into the kind of person I am today. I also am probably one of the few people that don't have religious trauma due to the fact that my church and it's members were decent people and made the community like a second family. Funny enough, the bad shit that have happened to me in my life came from public school and the internet, which are both considered secular.

Anyway, backstory aside, when I started keeping up wirh Viv's works, she was obviously keeping Biblical references to a minimum, even saying that the only characters that she would have that weren't ocs were Lucifer and Lilith (and Lilith is from Jewish folklore anyway). She didn't even want to have God be a part of her show. But then she decided to have these already established characters like Adam, Eve, and Peter. And the way she utilizes them just makes them feel like their just her characters that just so happen to have these names attached to them. Especially now with Abel added to the mix. They don't feel like chatacters that were added to the story for any meaningful reason; to expand on the lore of the story, to critique the Bible itself, or even to subvert are expectations of these characters. They just feel like lazy pop culture references.

I will give Viv this: she has kind of made me go back to reading the Bible and analyze the text from it. I've also heard other people mention a similar sentiment. I know this was not her intentions in anyway, but it is funny how this came to be.

 

[A Grey Cat]

All the civilizations that had "mother goddess" that had that, I believe, are long past extinct. Like the "Queen of Heaven", attributed to Innana/Ishtar.

Ahhh Ishtar, the only thing anyone cares about you is either how dead and forgotten you are, or for sharing your name with one of the biggest box office flops of the 80s.


At the risk of sounding like a right wing griter, "a civilization that exhaults and venerates the fairer sex is doomed to become nothing but dust and relics before patriarchal superiority."

Maybe that's why vivzie is trying to rewrite the Abrahamic origin of humanity, She despises how every matriarchal faith has bitten the dust so she's trying to remake the Genesis story to suit her needs, and vent her frustrations at her perceived weakness her
x x chromosome cursed her with in the process.



Or maybe she's a hack who never outgrew high school drama club/ college theater troupes.

 

[cremechocolate]

Why tf would I buy it on blueray when it's free on prime?

Prime isn't free.

 

[A Very Big Fish]

You also have to remember that in the Bible, God never explicitly told Eve to not eat the fruit; that was commanded before Eve was created. She knows about this because it is presumed that Adam has told her about this, and it is a great assumption that he failed in his duty of teaching his wife this law to it's full extent. When you're the leader, you take the responsibility for the choices that the people who are following you have made.

I'm not exactly sure on what would have happened if Adam never took the fruit from his wife. The Bible clearly states that both of their eyes opened after Adam ate of the fruit too. So maybe if Adam hadn't eaten the fruit and had told God what had happened, perhaps we would all still be living in the garden of Eden. I don't know, because God already knew this was destined to be hence why he planned to send Jesus down to Earth to save mankind.

One thing I'd point out is we also don't learn what would have happened if they just went straight to God to repent, or any number of other scenarios, like if Eve resisted and Adam did it by himself. An idea that shows up in early Judaism is that the family's patriarch has a priestly role, for example Job is mentioned as offering sacrifices to God on behalf of his children. Maybe in a sense, the sin is considered Adam's because he could have stymied the issue if he had repented on their behalf, but instead he chose to fall too.

Unlike the Christian one, it seems to be a temporal one however; for all the wrongdoings one may have done while alive - even in Buddhism!

The hells in Buddhism are temporal, but they also go on for multiple times the current length of the universe, so its still a pretty bad time.

BTW, who on here actually has a Christian background? I’ve been curious for a while about that, and wonder if that is the main things that draws some us, perhaps subconsciously, to these shows.

I'm a mackerel snapping Papist (Roman Catholic) but even when I was wandering in vague theism/agnosticism in my high school/college years, I've always had a profound love of religion. I made it a point a few years back to read a metric shit load of religious texts. A cool book that I'd recommend for anyone who likes this kind of stuff is Christ the Eternal Tao, which was an Eastern Orthodox author comparing the theology of Christ as the Logos with Lao Tzu's work. Real interesting stuff.

Fun fact, my mom is Protestant and my dad was raised catholic.

I don't know your ethnic background (obviously) but, as someone with an Irish background, that made me think of this song. For context, Irish Protestants usually identified using the color orange, and Catholics with green.

"With mother every Sunday to mass I'd proudly stroll
Then after that the orange lads would try to save my soul
For both sides tried to claim me, but I was smart because
I played the flute or played the harp, depending where I was

Oh it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen
My father he was orange and my mother she was green

One day my ma's relations came round to visit me
Just as my father's kinfolk were all sittin' down to tea
We tried to smooth things over, but they all began to fight
And me being strictly neutral, I bashed everyone in sight"

 

[ThisIsGonnaBeGood]

Happy S2 premiere!

 

[make_it_so]

Where did Viv get the idea that people blame Eve as if Adam wasn't right there? Do they seriously take his obvious "Uh... IT WAS THAT WOMAN YOU GAVE ME, GOD! SHE TRICKED ME!" blame-shifting as if we're supposed to believe him?
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You know, it's a been a while since I did any kind of Bible reading or any study of it, but I'm pretty damn sure in all interpretations it's that Adam and Eve are both equally to blame for disobeying God and eating the forbidden fruit. So what kind of Bible camps or Sunday schools that Viv went too where Eve gets all the blame I have no idea.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

You know, it's a been a while since I did any kind of Bible reading or any study of it, but I'm pretty damn sure in all interpretations it's that Adam and Eve are both equally to blame for disobeying God and eating the forbidden fruit. So what kind of Bible camps or Sunday schools that Viv went too where Eve gets all the blame I have no idea.

Her family's background was catholic, though I don't believe they were actively practicing.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

Sorry for double-positing but I just wanted to let you all know the first two episodes are on prime now. Since I've already technically seen the second episode, so I'm just waiting for the first episode to be posted online.

 

[Strangolapreti]

Because Viv is taking this from the opinions of internet incels who also haven't read the Bible.

I do think she read the Bible, but I don't think she did that with enthusiasm nor that she had the brain power (or interest) to try to interpret it beyond reading

Your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you.";

And call the whole thing sexist.

But even so, the story in Hazbin Hotel differs from the one from the Bible anyway.

This doesn't stops me from calling her work shallow and her interpretation of the Bible retarded.
If you read/watch something and claim you can do better, you need to prove it by bringing something clearly better to the table or you are gonna be nothing but a fucking dumbcunt prick.
I know this because I've done it before and I also done it in this thread here.

Adam and Eve are both equally to blame for disobeying God and eating the forbidden fruit.

They are both to blame but for different reasons: in particular Adam was further punished for listening to someone that knew nothing on the topic (Eve) instead of God, the absolute authority, while Eve was further punished for being the one telling Adam to eat.

Or maybe she's a hack who never outgrew high school drama club/ college theater troupes.

She is so obsessed with a character from Hollow Knight that she stole the design, made it into a faggowl and turned into the only character that truly matters in Helluva Boss. I see this on her portfolio and I will immediately discard her writing as the most immature shit I ever witnessed.

BTW, who on here actually has a Christian background? I’ve been curious for a while about that, and wonder if that is the main things that draws some us, perhaps subconsciously, to these shows.

I'm italian, Catholic background, went as far as visiting John Paul 1's house with parents before it was even opened to the public. Back then the 12th son of the pope's brother lived there, he explained some interesting anedoctes about the pope and his unironically cooler brother's life.

“Take back hell for the gays” and to be anti-christian

I could hyperanalyze the stupidiy of this single quote for twice the amount of time I spent hyperanalyzing a single page of the Bible 7 hours ago and I wouldn't be even halfway done finding way to explain what a retard anyone could be to claim that.

I also want to say that there is something that I forgot to discuss earlier:
The fruit of knowledge gave humanity the ability to distinguish good and evil, what Viv does by saying "Hell is actually good" is a direct rejection of knowledge itselg by claiming that what is evil is actually good and what is good is actually evil.

 

[ThisIsGonnaBeGood]

These faces made me lol

 

[man_made_of_meat]

Where did Viv get the idea that people blame Eve as if Adam wasn't right there? Do they seriously take his obvious "Uh... IT WAS THAT WOMAN YOU GAVE ME, GOD! SHE TRICKED ME!" blame-shifting as if we're supposed to believe him?
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"Is going to blow the lid off of what you think of good and evil", yeah if you are a retarded child and/or you never ever read a fuckin book in your life. Gtfo.

 

[Argos]

Well..."Gravity" is the only decent song out of the first two episodes. The others lack staying power and sing-along-ability. This doesn't bode well for the rest of the soundtrack.

Unless S3 and S4 both knock it out of the ballpark, I predict the series ends there.

ETA: "going to blow the lid off of what you think if good and evil"?

Repeatedly pressing X to doubt.

FFS, haven't any of these people read a damned book in their lives? YA after 2000 doesn't count.

 

[Strangolapreti]

"Is going to blow the lid off of what you think of good and evil", yeah if you are a retarded child and/or you never ever read a fuckin book in your life. Gtfo.

Sure, let's have the californians teach us the distinction between good and evil.

Mark my worlds on this: I already have an idea of what Viv's take is gonna be and it's gonna be a watered down version of the following:

The real evil was God for imposing his rules on humanity and angels, creating a system to ensure human suffers by banishing them to heaven, where angels are the true evil by imposing their order on the others and the demons, who relish in sin and debauchery, branded evil by angels who defined sins are the the lesser evil and made evil by the abuse and oppression of the angelic order and that, truly, there is no difference between angels and demons, as the snake snake guy becoming an angle proved, as a matter of facts, angels despise for faggotry and trannies, branding such acts as evil and castnig those who practice it to hell is proof enough of their cruel intentions.

Well..."Gravity" is the only decent song out of the first two episodes. The others lack staying power and sing-along-ability. This doesn't bode well for the rest of the soundtrack.

I think I never liked any musical aside of the South park movie or some old Disney cartoons and Dreamworks's Prince of egypt. And when I mean OLD, I mean that Hunchback of notre dame is nearly 30 years old and no musical released ever since has ever come close to match the intensity and beauty of Hellfire.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

Well I watched the first episode. I'm not going to watch the second since I already did when that leaked out and I already gave my opinion on that shitshow, so this review will very much be on the first episode. I'll post specifics about the episode but the next paragraph is just going to be an general overview of the episode while after that will go into more details on specific things I like and didn't like:

This episode was...okay. It's definitely better than the next episode and also the first episode of the first season. I'll admit that I did chuckle a few times and there weren't as many egregious moments as I thought there initially would be. This isn't to say that it's good or a sign that this show is going to get better.

-I hate what they did to Katie Killjoy. Besides the voice change, they also have changed her personality as well. I despise that she now makes sex jokes and want Vox to fuck her so badly. She just feels like a different character at this point.

-I do find it strange that Charlie only mourns for Sir Pentious and not also her little goat pet (I can't remember if it's either Razzle or Dazzle) that she has had since she was a kid. There's no mention of him at all or even a quick visual acknowledgement. I know he's essentially just a mascot character but still.

-Baxter has quickly become a favorite of mine and I just know that he will be very much underutilized.

-I still like Vox well enough, but I definitely predict that will change as the season continues due to the track record of these shows; the longer a character gets screentime, the more I seem to despise them. Speaking of Vox, I do understand his motive for doing this. Being a cult leader when he was alive, he very much felt like a god and he wants to relive that feeling again. My issue is on how he plans on doing that. I know that what his plan exactly entails will be shown later on in the season, and I also know that he somehow is going to capture Lucifer. But even with all that, it feels like this feat should be impossible with a place that is like Heaven. But then I remember episode 2 and how incompetent the majority of the angels are so maybe it isn't that impossible.

-The songs were fine. I didn't feel any particular way about them so take that as you will.

-There was no jarring animation errors or editing like in season 1 episodes. Will see how that goes for the rest of the episodes this season. I also noticed that the characters's heights seemed to have change from season 1. But season 1 was also inconsistent with it's character's height throughout so maybe that's why it seems like that.

-I was a bit surprise that Emily didn't get trapped in Hell from the barrier being put over Heaven. I don't know how to feel about that. On one hand, I'm glad because the ensemble in Hell is already bloated as it is. On the other hand, it feels like wasted potential for a character arc.

-Speaking of character arcs, from this episode alone, I doubt the other characters are going to go through much growth either. Charlie is just going be on the brink of panic attacks; Vaggie will be supporting Charlie and trying to figure out a new name for herself, only to accept her name in the end; Angel Dust is going to be a victim; Cherri Bomb is going to be pining over Sir Pentious; Sir Pentious is going to be pining over Hell; Husk is not going to do shit except for like in episode 6 where he decides to "go back to his old way" but that won't matter since he'll back by the next episode so he can be in the finale; Lucifer will exist; and Niffty will be comic relief. Alastor is going to have the most shit going on for him, and we all know how that's going to be. And we know at the end everyone is going to be fine and happy except for Angel Dust becaue that's what his VA accidentally spoiled. It won't matter. Which brings me to the final paragraph.

This season is pretty much a filler season for this show, and the fact that this is probably the best episode for season 2 is not a very good sign on what is yet to come.

 

[cremechocolate]

Sorry for double-positing but I just wanted to let you all know the first two episodes are on prime now. Since I've already technically seen the second episode, so I'm just waiting for the first episode to be posted online.

Is it too early to say that season 2 is just season 1 again?

Spoiler: Spoilers for the premiere episodes

I think Baxter being the Sir Pentious replacement (Viv doesn't trust the audience to infer that so she'd rather tell us instead of showing us) is going to lead to a twist of him being a successful mole for Vox unlike Sir Pentious. Speaking of Sir Pentious, so by giving him a canon (until proven otherwise) bystander effect backstory, it makes absolutely no sense why he turned out the way he did in hell. So he was just some lonely peeping Tom inventor guy who watched Jack the Ripper (not explicitly stated but clear that's what they were going for) rip through prostitutes and didn't do anything about it. Somehow despite being aware of why he went to hell, he decided to be a destructive villain for no real reason. He redeemed himself by viewing Cherri Bomb's safety and his friends on the same level as random prostitutes since that's his weird way of valuing people. So if God's speaker is to be believed, Viv wrote Jew (retard) God where things can be hidden from him.

 

[ThisIsGonnaBeGood]

The real evil was God for imposing his rules on humanity and angels, creating a system to ensure human suffers by banishing them to heaven, where angels are the true evil by imposing their order on the others and the demons, who relish in sin and debauchery, branded evil by angels who defined sins are the the lesser evil and made evil by the abuse and oppression of the angelic order and that, truly, there is no difference between angels and demons, as the snake snake guy becoming an angle proved, as a matter of facts, angels despise for faggotry and trannies, branding such acts as evil and castnig those who practice it to hell is proof enough of their cruel intentions.

Should I just post the Gnosticism meme comic again?

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

You know, it's a been a while since I did any kind of Bible reading or any study of it, but I'm pretty damn sure in all interpretations it's that Adam and Eve are both equally to blame for disobeying God and eating the forbidden fruit. So what kind of Bible camps or Sunday schools that Viv went too where Eve gets all the blame I have no idea.

"Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves."

Genesis 3:3-6

Yes they both disobeyed but it was like... 90/10 Eve. Adam was just kinda there.

This isn't to say Adam was blameless or anything, he just wasn't the active decisionmaker. He followed Eve's lead.

 

[Strangolapreti]

Should I just post the Gnosticism meme comic again?

Sure.

This isn't to say Adam was blameless or anything, he just wasn't the active decisionmaker. He followed Eve's lead.

Do you agree on my previous interpretation that, had the roles be swapped, so too would have been the outcome, and that Eve's "punishment" of having women being under their husband's cintrol being the outcome of her feeding him the forbidden fruit?