Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

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Do you believe that this series will turn to shit?

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AnOminous said:
Only the Cherubs were unambiguously good. The main other angel in that episode was Deerie, who was an absolute cunt (and hilariously the pfp Vivzie chose). I thought they were the best good (in alignment sense) characters in the first season of HB, the only good season this franchise has seen.
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There are some people that would disagree with you that the Cherubs are good (besides Collin). People say that Cleetus and Keenie are just being nice to feel superior and that they show their true colors at the end of the episode. But you could also take it as them snapping because of all the shit they had to go through with IMP. They're trying to stop this old man from killing himself and here comes along these demons, that shouldn't be on Earth in the first place, messing up their plans each time the Cherubs almost make a breakthrough.

You also have to remember that this is their job as well; they take people's requests from Heaven to save someone they care about on Earth from dying. So it's really not of any benefit for them, but the person who asked for this. I know that IMP is the protagonists for this shows, so it makes sense for why you would want to see them succeed. But that doesn't automatically mean they're the good guys.
 
InJailOutSoon said:
There are some people that would disagree with you that the Cherubs are good (besides Collin). People say that Cleetus and Keenie are just being nice to feel superior and that they show their true colors at the end of the episode. But you could also take it as them snapping because of all the shit they had to go through with IMP. They're trying to stop this old man from killing himself and here comes along these demons, that shouldn't be on Earth in the first place, messing up their plans each time the Cherubs almost make a breakthrough.

You also have to remember that this is their job as well; they take people's requests from Heaven to save someone they care about on Earth from dying. So it's really not of any benefit for them, but the person who asked for this. I know that IMP is the protagonists for this shows, so it makes sense for why you would want to see them succeed. But that doesn't automatically mean they're the good guys.
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There's also the episode where they pretend to be a woman and her baby to steal someone's wallet. The only one that clearly doesn't like it is Colin.
 
InJailOutSoon said:
There are some people that would disagree with you that the Cherubs are good (besides Collin). People say that Cleetus and Keenie are just being nice to feel superior and that they show their true colors at the end of the episode. But you could also take it as them snapping because of all the shit they had to go through with IMP. They're trying to stop this old man from killing himself and here comes along these demons, that shouldn't be on Earth in the first place, messing up their plans each time the Cherubs almost make a breakthrough.

You also have to remember that this is their job as well; they take people's requests from Heaven to save someone they care about on Earth from dying. So it's really not of any benefit for them, but the person who asked for this. I know that IMP is the protagonists for this shows, so it makes sense for why you would want to see them succeed. But that doesn't automatically mean they're the good guys.
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This brings up the question, who in heaven wanted the old man not to kill himself? Whilst simultaneously in hell, loopy-poopy whatever, wanted him dead.

They missed out on an interesting concept to play with via pitting the imps vs the cherubs as they fight over dealing with morally ambiguous humans, or humans with enemies and allies in the afterlife in one or two episodes for the second season. That could help them flesh out the world more too. It just feels like they shut the cherubs down too fast, and they could have been an interesting foil. It's far too early to have them team up with DHORKS. This is a last resort/later season type of plot.

We definitely needed to see Striker and Crimson several times in one season though. Even though the latter served his purpose in his first episode, and the other wanted to stick around until they left a rotting smell.

It would have been interesting to see a overlord tasking imp with a hit on a priest, but that would mean fleshing out their targets as well for the meaningful hits instead of gay owl melodrama. I always found it infuriating they never really try to get us to care about the humans. You could argue this is simply a method to have the audience not hate the imps... but I also don't care much about them either if the show doesn't care about their hits. It can be funny one-off kills, and meaningful slaughters that excell the plot. But we know Vivienne has other priorities. She says she wrote the plots for her shows several years ago, but they feel last minute.

Minor edit for clarity.
 
Baphometkun said:
I always found it infuriating they never really try to get us to care about the humans. You could argue this is simply a method to have the audience not hate the imps... but I also don't care much about them either if the show doesn't care about their hits.
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The shorts, well at least some of them anyway, do a much better job at focusing on the individual targets compared to the main seasons. It's impressive how much they manage to fit into a shorter timeframe. The 5th short where they kill the children's entertainer with all the orphans does the best job of exploring the moral ambiguity of the situation, as shown by Loona having mixed feelings compared to Blitzø throughout.
 
graywolf88 said:
It's a common Achilles Heel of creator driven projects. Hideo Kojima games have similar issues and while I love the Metal Gear series, some parts are in desperate need of a tard wrangler for Kojimbo. "No Kojima-san, Liquid's consciousness living on through his severed arm attached to Ocelot is stupid."
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I mean, we're talking about a series that had psychics, a shaman, an entire team of people with supernatural powers (Cobra Unit, Dead Cell), so Ocelot being possesed by Liquids spirit because he got The Sorrows powers doesn't sound THAT far fetched. Where it got dumb, is in MGS4 where they changed how Vamp wasn't a vampire but nanomachines.
Clancee said:
There's also the episode where they pretend to be a woman and her baby to steal someone's wallet. The only one that clearly doesn't like it is Colin.
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Which is funny, cause among the cherubs Colin is a fan favorite (also guilty of this myself) and kinda seemed like the more interesting/nicer of the three.
 
Gondolindrim said:
I'm trying to square in my head how Viv apparently wrote the third season first and has all these plot twists that she's clearly very proud of ready to go, but the first two are about shit no one cares about.
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That's not even the dumbest narrative problem she's had, I can't get over how the season 1 final was released after season 2 was already half over. How do you even do that?
 
Octavia vs Collin in a "too pure for this world" competition. Who would win?
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Friendly Primarina said:
Octavia vs Collin in a "too pure for this world" competition. Who would win?
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Oooo...Man, now that's a hard one. I'd say Collin, mostly because he's literally stuck with two dbags that probably don't give a shit about him and if he died they wouldn't even blink. Octavia meanwhile kinda/sortoff/maybe/Viv stop fucking has Stella, who maybe still cares about her own kid?
 
I saw this art on the Helluva Boss subreddit and the artist probably thought it was so serious and emotional without realizing Moxxie and Millie are just two silly goobers most of the time.

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Friendly Primarina said:
It kind of reminds me of when Zootopia came out, and there was a slew of art depicting Nick or Judy getting shot.
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I mean, least with those two it made sense. Them being cops, and sure this being a Disney animated film they aren't gonna show guns and even though the OG concept was much darker.
 
Friendly Primarina said:
It kind of reminds me of when Zootopia came out, and there was a slew of art depicting Nick or Judy getting shot.
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Jesus Christ, the Zootopia abortion comic was edgier than that. 2016 was a different time man. I honestly enjoyed the little weapons they used in the movie instead of guns, like the fox spray or blueberry shooter. Fits the world and themes better.

The tired cat said:
I mean, least with those two it made sense. Them being cops, and sure this being a Disney animated film they aren't gonna show guns and even though the OG concept was much darker.
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Yeah, the original concept involved collars for all the predators and having Nick and Fennec create a theme park just for predators. I read all about it in the The Art of Zootopia. I love concept art for movies and video games.
 
graywolf88 said:
I saw this art on the Helluva Boss subreddit and the artist probably thought it was so serious and emotional without realizing Moxxie and Millie are just two silly goobers most of the time.

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Ahhh, I too remember when I was 12 and thought that the only way I could show that my characters really cared about eachother was getting one of them shot and having the other one be angry about it.

It's like writers think "I need a more serious approach" = "who do I maim for the other one to cry about?"
 
graywolf88 said:
Jesus Christ, the Zootopia abortion comic was edgier than that. 2016 was a different time man. I honestly enjoyed the little weapons they used in the movie instead of guns, like the fox spray or blueberry shooter. Fits the world and themes better.
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It's impressive to me just how much mileage they can get out of one movie. The Lion King had sequels, video games, tons of merch etc.. But as far as I know the Zootopia "franchise" consists of a single animated movie and presumably some merch. The fact that people are still making a shit ton of art for it shows it really captured people's imaginations, for better or worse.
 
Friendly Primarina said:
It's impressive to me just how much mileage they can get out of one movie. The Lion King had sequels, video games, tons of merch etc.. But as far as I know the Zootopia "franchise" consists of a single animated movie and presumably some merch. The fact that people are still making a shit ton of art for it shows it really captured people's imaginations, for better or worse.
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There was also that show on Disney+, which was basically the Simpson episodes of the various lives of citizens of Zootopia. Really, I think what helped Zootopia was the whole buddy-cop angle or in this case, being like 48 hours with Eddie Murphy, since you have a cop and criminal working together.
 
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