Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

[InJailOutSoon]

Seeing a lot of people talk about the legality of Hellborn going to Earth and all that jazz, I decided to put in my own shitty thoughts on the subject. Incoming long tangent:

In Season 1, there was some hinting of how the rules of travel to Earth worked; you got to go if it was part of your duty as a certain species. For succubi/incubi, it is to seduce humans to be lustful. You can even make the argument that hellhounds could go to Earth as well to serve as bodyguards for other Hellborn since they are naturally stronger. Now there are strict guidelines to follow when you're up there. You can't let humans know that you're a demon (otherwise you get a DHORKS situation), and you can only use your powers on human for them to commit the sin you represent. They serve as a temptation. Why? My guess back then was that the more humans to commit the sin, the more powerful that Deadly Sin becomes.

Now here is where IMP comes to play. Imps obviously aren't supposed to go up to Earth. They don't have human disguises, no powers, and (before the whole asmodeus crystal reveal) no way to get up to Earth. The only way our main crew was able to was because Stolas lent them his grimoire (which in hindsight is very stupid on Stolas' part because it seems you don't have to have any inherit power to be able to do the spells. Meaning that if IMP wanted to, they could have used any of the spells in that book.) So now IMP is able to go up to Earth, not only just revealing to humans that they are demons, but killing them as well. Even if you ignore Hazbin Hotel's overpopulation plot point, the fact that IMP is just killing humans willy-nilly goes against hellborn tempting humans to commit sins. Which should be a big no-no for the Deadly Sins.

Now how has IMP gotten away with their business for season 1? Well even though they do advertise it, it's not very well done mind you. They have a commercial that is ran on channel almost no one watches at a time when it is least viewed. And they have a billboard that is more nonsense than actual advertisement. And this is in the location of IMP city which is most likely inhabited by other Imps. And I doubt imps are going to be blabbering this to any of the higher-ups. And any Sinner that passes by? They don't give two shits about the legality of this business and will probably just use it.

There's also just IMP getting away with this by sheer luck alone. Verosika can't spill on them because she'll get in trouble for causing a fish to turn into a monster by the booze she was drinking. The Cherubs can't tell Heaven because they've been kicked out. And no one believed the DHORKS. Of course, that doesn't mean that their luck won't run out. Stolas has to reprimand them for getting caught because if they get in a trouble, HE gets in trouble for giving his grimoire to them. And you could suspect that time would be coming eventually.

Of course, this never happened because the show decided to become a yaoi drama in season 2, basically scrubbing away any of those potential stakes in season 1. It's why the asmodeus crystal even exists in the first place; so Stolas could give that to Blitzø so he didn't have to have sex with him anymore to do his business. (Though he could have just also continue to give out the book without the sex contract attached to it no more, but whatever.)

 

[Niggerphobe]

Now how has IMP gotten away with their business for season 1? Well even though they do advertise it, it's not very well done mind you. They have a commercial that is ran on channel almost no one watches at a time when it is least viewed. And they have a billboard that is more nonsense than actual advertisement. And this is in the location of IMP city which is most likely inhabited by other Imps. And I doubt imps are going to be blabbering this to any of the higher-ups. And any Sinner that passes by? They don't give two shits about the legality of this business and will probably just use it.

if the pilot is cannon then they have been seen on live human tv

 

[InJailOutSoon]

if the pilot is cannon then they have been seen on live human tv

It's not. Unless the new episode is going to be a redo of said pilot. Which would make the new episode canon.

If that's the case, I can't wait for that episode to ruin more of the lore and continuity of the show.

 

[graywolf88]

Of course, this never happened because the show decided to become a yaoi drama in season 2, basically scrubbing away any of those potential stakes in season 1.

Ultimately, a lot of these minute lore details will be either hand waved or overlooked in service of the show being a comedy. No doubt there's an entire page on TV Tropes of autists filling in these gaps, but I wouldn't hold your breath for a more thorough explanation in season 3.

 

[Second Missing Primarch]

This is basically Wormwood from The Screwtape Letters. This whole series would have benefitted greatly from Vivzie actually studying C.S. Lewis. Nobody else has done demons better in a work of fiction, odd considering that he was a devout Christian, and despite not being Catholic, writes like one (that is a compliment if coming from me). Or maybe not so odd.

Lewis hung around with Catholics like JRR Tolkien (who was disappointed when he became an Anglican) and was greatly influenced by Catholic writers like GK Chesterton, so it's not so surprising that he knew how to write like one. He was also a great fan of mythology and occultism as a young man and studied Norse, Greek, and Celtic mythology and the Icelandic sagas, all of which no doubt had some effect on his writing later in life.

I'm actually glad you brought him up, because Lewis is a really good illustration of the problem with so many modern-day creatives and why so many of them seem to pale in comparison with people like him. Lewis was a very smart man with a vivid imagination who was incredibly well-read and intellectually curious. He also had a life full of experiences, both positive and negative, that went on to influence him as a writer, person, and theologian. His mother died when he was a kid and he was left with a distant and demanding father and got shuttled around to various schools and tutors. He served in WWI as an infantry officer, lost several friends, and was nearly killed himself by an errant artillery shell. One of his friends who died had asked him to look after his mother if he was killed, and Lewis took this request so seriously that he went to live with her and spent the rest of her life taking care of her. He rejected his Christian faith as a teenager and spent a long time, as he put it, being "very angry with God for not existing" and "equally angry with him for creating a world." He ultimately returned to Christianity after years of atheism thanks to the influence of his friends Tolkien and Hugo Dyson and wound up becoming one of the foremost lay theologians the Church of England ever produced. All throughout his academic career, he worked with and taught many very smart people, and his friends in the Inklings, including Tolkien, Owen Barfield, and Charles Williams, helped him refine the Space Trilogy and the Narnia series. They also occasionally did competitions where they read aloud from the books of legendarily shitty author Amanda McKittrick Ros to see who could read her drivel the longest without laughing, so sitting around and mocking no-talent lolcows over a beer is a grand and honorable tradition that we should all be proud of.

Vivzie has not lived anything like this kind of life. She's gone from Christian to atheist and her parents are divorced, but those things happen all the time and don't seem to have had a major impact on her. She has had no great tragedies, no struggles, no friends to challenge her beliefs or help her refine her work. She can't take criticism, she doesn't seem to want to do any kind of research beyond the most basic background stuff, and she is incapable of stepping outside her own perspective to look at the world through someone else's eyes. She's certainly not alone in this among current-day creatives, but she's a good example of the problem with them. William Faulkner once said that "A writer needs three things, experience, observation, and imagination, any two of which, at times any one of which, can supply the lack of the others." Vivzie clearly has an imagination, damaged as it is by a steady diet of Tumblr bullshit and low-denominator pop culture, but she has no experiences or observational skills worth a damn and all of her creative output demonstrates that fact. She has the skeletons of interesting and provocative stories in HH and HB, but she's buried them under a sloppy, rancid pile of Tumblrina-level drama, pointless edginess, and yaoi-fangirl shipping, because that's all she knows how to write and she's never going to be able to evolve beyond that without some major changes to her perspective and patterns of thought.

 

[Friendly Primarina]

(Though he could have just also continue to give out the book without the sex contract attached to it no more, but whatever.)

Stolas wanted to be in a relationship with Blitzo, though. If he was still loaning out the book there would always be doubt (even if just in his mind) that Blitzo was only sleeping with him for access to it.

Of course he goes about it in the most pants-shittingly retarded way a) demanding the Grimoire back with no explanation and b) "freeing" Blitzo and giving him the choice to stay or go, only to get pissy when Blitz doesn't react the way he wants.

 

[graywolf88]

Stolas wanted to be in a relationship with Blitzo, though. If he was still loaning out the book there would always be doubt (even if just in his mind) that Blitzo was only sleeping with him for access to it.

Of course he goes about it in the most pants-shittingly retarded way a) demanding the Grimoire back with no explanation and b) "freeing" Blitzo and giving him the choice to stay or go, only to get pissy when Blitz doesn't react the way he wants.

I felt a lot was left out from that scene when watching it for the first time. It's like watching a horror movie where the characters end up making the worst choice possible and you're left yelling at the screen.

 

[Saxxon]

ok boys
She's a 10/10 but when you get to her place she breaks this out
What do you do?

"Babe this boardgame is fun and all but can you explain me why we stopped doing hitman jobs midway through and are now recollecting 'romantic tokens' to go out on a date with a giant bird?"

Amanda McKittrick Ros

You guys need to check out the history of this woman, she was basically 20th century Vivziepop:

She named characters as fruits (Lord Raspberry, Cherry Raspberry, Sir Peter Plum, Christopher Currant, the Earl of Grape, Madame Pear), used thinly veiled insults to publish her displeasure at critics calling them amongst other things ‘talent tarnishers’ and ‘critising crowdrops’ and had a hatred for lawyers in particular after a failed court case, vilifying them with elaborate and hatefilled eulogies.

Ros wrote that her critics lacked sufficient intellect to appreciate her talent, and that they conspired against her for revealing the corruption of society's ruling classes, thereby disturbing "the bowels of millions".

A reader sent a copy of Irene to humorist Barry Pain, who in an 1898 review called it "a thing that happens once in a million years", and sarcastically termed it "the book of the century". He reported that he was initially entertained, but soon "shrank before it in tears and terror". Ros retorted by branding Pain a "clay crab of corruption" and wrote a twenty-page preface to her second novel, Delina Delaney, in which she disparaged Pain at length and suggested that he was so hostile only because he was secretly in love with her.But Ros claimed to have made enough money from Delina Delaney to build a house, which she named Iddesleigh.

 

[Niggerphobe]

It's not. Unless the new episode is going to be a redo of said pilot. Which would make the new episode canon.

If that's the case, I can't wait for that episode to ruin more of the lore and continuity of the show.

I think this is worse than Disney Star Wars continuity

 

[InJailOutSoon]

Stolas wanted to be in a relationship with Blitzo, though. If he was still loaning out the book there would always be doubt (even if just in his mind) that Blitzo was only sleeping with him for access to it.

Of course he goes about it in the most pants-shittingly retarded way a) demanding the Grimoire back with no explanation and b) "freeing" Blitzo and giving him the choice to stay or go, only to get pissy when Blitz doesn't react the way he wants.

I feel like that could have still worked the same with him just lending the grimoire with no strings attached. It would definitely even the playing field between them and give Blitzø the choice whether he wanted a more personal relationship with Stolas or not. It's better then "let me take a book and not offer you an explanation for the next ten seconds so you can worry about your livelihood for that amount of time before I give you a crystal that basically means you're owned by Asmodeus now, but it's fine because he doesn't care how his crystals are used and we're just friends now...until the trial where he basically does shit for either of us though it would be really easy to make a counterargument for the accusations that are being spouted out."

Anyway, the infamous Full Moon scene doesn't work because they're speed-running through the drama because the episode decided to waste it's time on a plot that didn't add up to anything for the ending. Kind of like Sinsmas did.

 

[Clancee]

It's not. Unless the new episode is going to be a redo of said pilot. Which would make the new episode canon.

But wasn't the commercial mentioned only in the pilot and nowhere else?

 

[InJailOutSoon]

But wasn't the commercial mentioned only in the pilot and nowhere else?

I...honestly can't remember for the life of me. The world-building was never that good to begin with for Helluva Boss. Which wouldn't have been that bad if the show had stayed with it's original episodic comedy format.

 

[King Metalia]

Vivz seems to have the ability to come up with good ideas and then totally wreck them.

I wonder how Viv's work would have turned out if she wasn't obsessed with the gay sex part of the show?

 

[I_Am_Not_Bruce_Willis]

Been quite a while since I last checked in on this thread. Lately, as I've been doing some catchup on Viv shenanigans, I've been pondering what could've been. Not the shows themselves, mind you, but what would've happened if the causes and effects behind HH and HB were just a little bit different.

For example, what would've happened if Covid never happened, Hazbin got picked up by a different network besides Amazon, didn't get locked behind streaming, was allowed to have a 20-30 episode season instead of a heavily serialized 8 episode one. Heck, what would've happened if HB never existed and Viv and Spindlehorse focused all their efforts on HH? Would the show have become a Simpsons/Spongebob-level success and have been nigh-inescapable online like MLP:FiM was?

Sure, the show is successful with the Hot Topic kids, but it really hasn't broken outside of that bubble, and that bubble is only so big at the moment. My tried-and-true "Profile Picture test" has told me that Hazbin really hasn't had the level of impact that I thought it was going to have back in 2019, for better or for worse.

Granted, I feel part of the reason for that is that Hazbin really doesn't have that much overlap with most of the communities/fandoms I keep tabs on. Compared to say, Undertale, where Toby was able to have a massive reach due to his relations in the Earthbound, ROM Hacking, and competitive Melee community. The most Viv had prior to HH dropping was her built-in fanbase from Zoophobia, and the general cartoon community at large cheering her on.

 

[Strawberry Kiwi Propel]

if the pilot is cannon then they have been seen on live human tv

Canon or not, people might've pass that off as a phenomenon and not put much thought into it. DHORKS has various footage of IMP at the beginning of Truth Seekers, and yet weren't taken seriously until they got that footage of the final fight at the end.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

Been quite a while since I last checked in on this thread. Lately, as I've been doing some catchup on Viv shenanigans, I've been pondering what could've been. Not the shows themselves, mind you, but what would've happened if the causes and effects behind HH and HB were just a little bit different.

For example, what would've happened if Covid never happened, Hazbin got picked up by a different network besides Amazon, didn't get locked behind streaming, was allowed to have a 20-30 episode season instead of a heavily serialized 8 episode one. Heck, what would've happened if HB never existed and Viv and Spindlehorse focused all their efforts on HH? Would the show have become a Simpsons/Spongebob-level success and have been nigh-inescapable online like MLP:FiM was?

Sure, the show is successful with the Hot Topic kids, but it really hasn't broken outside of that bubble, and that bubble is only so big at the moment. My tried-and-true "Profile Picture test" has told me that Hazbin really hasn't had the level of impact that I thought it was going to have back in 2019, for better or for worse.

Granted, I feel part of the reason for that is that Hazbin really doesn't have that much overlap with most of the communities/fandoms I keep tabs on. Compared to say, Undertale, where Toby was able to have a massive reach due to his relations in the Earthbound, ROM Hacking, and competitive Melee community. The most Viv had prior to HH dropping was her built-in fanbase from Zoophobia, and the general cartoon community at large cheering her on.

We do sort of see what could have been with Hazbin Hotel before it got picked up by A24, with the pitch bible, list of comic summaries, and Viv also mentioning making shorts for the show as well. I imagine the spread of Hazbin Hotel would be similar to how Helluva Boss is.

There is also the matter of Viv not screwing over the people who helped make the Hazbin Hotel pilot a reality in the first place, which means the art and animation style would remain the same, the writing would be similar to the pilot, and we would have most of the VAs reprising their roles. Viv would also probably be looked more positively as a pioneer for Indie animation and as an example that you too can achieve your dream of making a show. And there probably would be less people that despise Viv as a person as well.

 

[Outer Space Traveller]

I'm actually glad you brought him up, because Lewis is a really good illustration of the problem with so many modern-day creatives and why so many of them seem to pale in comparison with people like him. Lewis was a very smart man with a vivid imagination who was incredibly well-read and intellectually curious. He also had a life full of experiences, both positive and negative, that went on to influence him as a writer, person, and theologian. His mother died when he was a kid and he was left with a distant and demanding father and got shuttled around to various schools and tutors. He served in WWI as an infantry officer, lost several friends, and was nearly killed himself by an errant artillery shell. One of his friends who died had asked him to look after his mother if he was killed, and Lewis took this request so seriously that he went to live with her and spent the rest of her life taking care of her. He rejected his Christian faith as a teenager and spent a long time, as he put it, being "very angry with God for not existing" and "equally angry with him for creating a world." He ultimately returned to Christianity after years of atheism thanks to the influence of his friends Tolkien and Hugo Dyson and wound up becoming one of the foremost lay theologians the Church of England ever produced. All throughout his academic career, he worked with and taught many very smart people, and his friends in the Inklings, including Tolkien, Owen Barfield, and Charles Williams, helped him refine the Space Trilogy and the Narnia series. They also occasionally did competitions where they read aloud from the books of legendarily shitty author Amanda McKittrick Ros to see who could read her drivel the longest without laughing, so sitting around and mocking no-talent lolcows over a beer is a grand and honorable tradition that we should all be proud of.

He had an amazing life story. We cannot compare him to George Raymond Martin, let alone someone like Vivianne!

 

[Niggerphobe]

And also why has not one person live streamed the fish monster at the beach

 

[sixuglymidgets]

You know what could've made the driving short better? If it they were in hell and it was moxxie who got angry and started flipping out over it with millie revealing that moxxie is not allowed to drive because of his road rage and driving like a maniac. You could even have loona get disturbed at his antics.

 

[AnOminous]

Would the show have become a Simpsons/Spongebob-level success and have been nigh-inescapable online like MLP:FiM was?

The premise could have, with better showrunning, ended up with at least Steven Universe level success, but most likely, it would also have the issue of being packaged and presented in really stupid ways, like that "Steven Bomb" bullshit, that nearly guaranteed for instance that I'd never watch it.

The network format might have kept some of Vivzie's more obsessively fujo shit a little under control and cut down on the excessive unfunny obscenity, which would be funnier if there were less of it. For instance, a dozen fucks are less funny than Moxxie being a demon in Hell and using "oh crumbs" as a swear.