Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

[Dr. Arinsu]

Remind me what a griefing thread is again?

 

[InJailOutSoon]

Him facing consequences in Mastermind means shit since he's an immortal being who will get his powers back in his lifetime, and its framed as a selfless act of love. Octavia cutting ties with him too means nothing since let's be real, she's going to fucking come back for him and be fine with his affair, like otherwise that whole scene where Bltizo refuses to kill the gay family would be pointless since it is foreshadowing with the subtelty of an anchor.

I've noticed that people say "losing his power and status, and his daughter cutting ties with him" are the consequences of his actions, while I find them to just be more sympathy points for him. Because the framing is that this something wrong that is happening to Stolas. Stolas losing his power and ranking isn't deserved; the higher-ups are just bigoted and unfair. Octavia cutting off ties with him isn't deserved; it's just a huge misunderstanding and she doesn't understand how hard her dad is trying.

And these "consequences" aren't going to be long-lasting, since we all know Octavia is going to come back to him. Stolas is most likely going to get his power and ranking back. He's going to have his imp-toy be his lover. He's going to get everything that he wanted and it will feel completely unearned.

Show! Alastor feels like some teenager trying to appeal to their friends that their demon oc is hip with the kids.

Screw whoever thought it was a good idea to have him say “that’s the tea”.

I don’t think Al would ever say shit like that, only time I can see it is when he’s confused about someone said that to him or he overheard it.

I remember not liking Al’s voice during the pilot days bc it was a bit annoying but god now I want that back

My hot take is I feel both versions of Alastor are just carried by hype moments and aura. I like the Pilot version more for his voice, but Show Alastor being a prideful jackass who is a big fish in a small pond only to be in a bigger pond I like a little more though I don't count on Viv delivering on him.

Pilot Alastor is just easy to imagine a different character since he didn't do much except be intimidating, wacky, and beat up Pentious who is still a jobber. But the little he had simply made it easy to imagine more. I feel all the fascination would've felt different if there wasn't a 5 year gap between the pilot and actual show.

Show Alastor is just having more content on a character that really didn't have much to them. Honestly the biggest surprise is how Viv let him be a scumbag to Husk which I thought she would've taken all the edge off this character. Though she is going to make him Demon Dexter Morgan who just kills evil people since almost everyone and their mom who dabbles into OCs tries to think the "serial killer" killer is such a novel and original concept.

It just goes to show that being given crumbs of something can allow imaginations to run wild while getting the whole package removes the mystery.

This is my take, having Alastor be totally like the pilot where he can kick just about every single character's ass without effort would have gotten old extremely fast, at least him being a big fish in a small pond and slowly going nuts over realizing he's not some invulnerable badass could lead to a good arc, unfortunately Viv forgot to add in the beginning of that arc and show him actually manage to easily take on other powerful Sinners, so he just looks like a joke.

I'm surprised his leaked flashback had him kill an intoxicated man who laughed off bumping into him and spilling his drink on him, so Viv didn't go fully into the whole "He only kills evil people!" retardation, but it wouldn't surprise me if Viv confirms in a tweet that the guy was racist or something or the scene gets changed last minute to make him look more of scumbag.

The reason why I think Alastor worked better in the pilot then what we got in the show is because the pilot showed very little of him. In the pilot, besides a shot of him seeing Charlie on the News, he only makes his appearance in the last ten minutes of the 30 minute pilot. And even with those ten minutes, we still don't know much about him. We get some basic lore and simple reason for why he's here. But we still don't know much about him or what his true motive is. There's this mysterious aura about that draws the viewer in.

And when you look at the original pitch bible for the show, Alastor gets really only one other episode focused on him. And it's him causing the conflict for the b-plot of that episode by making a shitty commercial for the hotel. The main focus of that b-plot is on Vaggie since she is trying to make a new and better commercial. And every episode after that in the pitch is focused on other characters and not Alastor. He's not even mentioned or shown in the other episodes.

Alastor in the actual show is a major focus focus for almost every episode this season. We're seeing this supposed mysterious guy way too much, and learning way too much about him so quickly. And because the dialogue is so on-the-nose with characters just telling exactly what they're feeling, we now know who Alastor is as a person and what he wants. Because he literally told the audience. We know his main motive is to become the most powerful Sinner in hell. We know that his soul is owned and the person who owns his soul. We also know how his soul got own because we have a flashback to what happened when he was alive. Why are we getting all this information about him so soon? And what's even worse, we as the audience don't come to the realization of this ourselves. We don't have to put multiple scenes and context clues together to figure out this stuff. No; the characters themselves just come out and say it. It's all so...boring.

And that's the main problem of this show. Once you get past the eccentric character designs, colorful animation, and big musical numbers, at it's core Hazbin Hotel is boring. The only interesting things about it is trying to figure out the egregious plot holes, broken world-building and lore, and how characters can be so stupid.

But yeah...main point I was trying to make here was that Alastor works better with limited screentime.

 

[Smity Werbenjagermanjensen]

Speaking again about Alastor, one of the many funny things about Viv using fanart in the audition sheets is him showing up as a white dude.

Also to add off what @InJailOutSoon just said, it's also funny that the sheet calls him "mysterious" when we know basically all his major goals and motives by the end of S1, with the rest of the mystery behind him being entirely gone by the end of S2E4. Plus the whole "feared and respected" part when he gets blown off during the Overlord meeting, only people shown being afraid of him are cannon fodder.

 

[AnOminous]

Alastor’s asexuality makes little sense in terms of him being a serial killer. The overwhelming majority of serial killers are sexually motivated.

That doesn't mean they actually engage in sex, or that they can have normal sex. Berkowitz would be one actual example. He killed couples he saw having sex. A fair number of serial killers were unable to perform sexually at all, perhaps causing them to substitute deranged rituals for actual sex that they couldn't have.

That's why I agree in a general sense that an asexual serial killer is probably a contradiction in terms. It's a frustration of the denied desire that leads to the depraved result. Cannibalism is a substitution for a more natural consummation.

This could have made an actually interesting character analysis but you'd have to go beyond the safe edgy that this show obviously descended into.

 

[Colonel Gaddafi]

That doesn't mean they actually engage in sex, or that they can have normal sex. Berkowitz would be one actual example. He killed couples he saw having sex. A fair number of serial killers were unable to perform sexually at all, perhaps causing them to substitute deranged rituals for actual sex that they couldn't have.

Oh definitely. Odds are a person like Alastor would have some weird sexual hang up, but I don’t know if that sort of pathology can be completely divorced from sex the way Viv suggests. Asexuals lack attraction, so I can see him not being particularly attracted to people in a conventional sense, but I’m sure he would have been a sexual being in some way or another. Spree killers usually don’t have sexual compulsions, but a proper male serial killer who would be completely asexual would be a unicorn. The cannibalism as an erotic act is good observation.

Too bad Viv is a shit writer.

 

[Retink Retunk]

Speaking again about Alastor, one of the many funny things about Viv using fanart in the audition sheets is him showing up as a white dude.

Let's be real, he was going to be a white guy all along until the terminally online bitched about a white guy using voodoo.

 

[The tired cat]

Let's be real, he was going to be a white guy all along until the terminally online bitched about a white guy using voodoo.

No, they bitched at her daring to use the forbidden religion, like her just touching that stuff tor her show made people freak out hard.

 

[Grand Duke Snowfall]

No, they bitched at her daring to use the forbidden religion, like her just touching that stuff tor her show made people freak out hard.

Alright, can someone who knows about this stuff confirm whether this is actually some super duper sacred religion that justifies the detractors shouting “muh closed culture!!” Or is this like people freaking out about wendigoes being used in anything because they’re either 1. “A sacred spirit*!” or 2. Getting mixed up with skinwalkers with the claim that you shouldn’t speak its name.

*It’s not, it’s a cautionary tale against cannibalism.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

@InJailOutSoon I wonder if the mystery of Alastor being reduced in the main series is down to one of two things compared to how it was presented in the Pilot/Pitch Bible

1. The Amazon Deal: Given Vivzie has less episodes to work with and streaming services being notorious for cancelling projects, perhaps Vivzie put all that shit out there out of panic to at least let people who were waiting on Alastor for years to know what his whole deal is. Though the counterpoint to it is that Vivzie tries so hard to paint Alastor as this whimsical mysterious guy in Season 1 even while he's a prideful guy who hates not being the big fish with how she tries to act like his motives and whereabouts were this big secret even if it no one gives a shit since Alastor honestly falls into the "Pathetic and intimidating" writing model that Vivzie puts for her villains which explains a lot more.

2. Vivziepop's Control Freak Tendencies: The other explanation I can think for his lack of mystery is how often Vivzie tries to force her fandom to think certain things. Like it's one thing if its to correct misinformation or confusing stuff like the whole thing about Satan bullshitting about ruling hell before Lucifer. But look at how she talks about characters like Stella, Millie, and Stolitz where she on her twitter would either make threads or force people to see certain perceptions she wants to see of them rather than allow them to have their own interpretations unless if its for shipping purposes. There's also stuff in both her shows that really force you to think a certain way like all the times Vivzie makes you want to feel bad for Stolas by hammering in how evil and mean Stella is to really trying to make Alastor's relationship with Charlie more father-daughter despite it not coming like that (at best, Alastor coming across as a bum uncle, but not fatherly).

or the bonus number 3 which coincides with 2...

3. Vivzie simply isn't good at writing mysteries

 

[The tired cat]

@InJailOutSoon I wonder if the mystery of Alastor being reduced in the main series is down to one of two things compared to how it was presented in the Pilot/Pitch Bible

1. The Amazon Deal: Given Vivzie has less episodes to work with and streaming services being notorious for cancelling projects, perhaps Vivzie put all that shit out there out of panic to at least let people who were waiting on Alastor for years to know what his whole deal is. Though the counterpoint to it is that Vivzie tries so hard to paint Alastor as this whimsical mysterious guy in Season 1 even while he's a prideful guy who hates not being the big fish with how she tries to act like his motives and whereabouts were this big secret even if it no one gives a shit since Alastor honestly falls into the "Pathetic and intimidating" writing model that Vivzie puts for her villains which explains a lot more.

2. Vivziepop's Control Freak Tendencies: The other explanation I can think for his lack of mystery is how often Vivzie tries to force her fandom to think certain things. Like it's one thing if its to correct misinformation or confusing stuff like the whole thing about Satan bullshitting about ruling hell before Lucifer. But look at how she talks about characters like Stella, Millie, and Stolitz where she on her twitter would either make threads or force people to see certain perceptions she wants to see of them rather than allow them to have their own interpretations unless if its for shipping purposes. There's also stuff in both her shows that really force you to think a certain way like all the times Vivzie makes you want to feel bad for Stolas by hammering in how evil and mean Stella is to really trying to make Alastor's relationship with Charlie more father-daughter despite it not coming like that (at best, Alastor coming across as a bum uncle, but not fatherly).

or the bonus number 3 which coincides with 2...

3. Vivzie simply isn't good at writing mysteries

I think its mostly a mix from coloumn 1 and 2.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

Alright, can someone who knows about this stuff confirm whether this is actually some super duper sacred religion that justifies the detractors shouting “muh closed culture!!” Or is this like people freaking out about wendigoes being used in anything because they’re either 1. “A sacred spirit*!” or 2. Getting mixed up with skinwalkers with the claim that you shouldn’t speak its name.

*It’s not, it’s a cautionary tale against cannibalism.

It's the latter. The people who complain are in no way connected to Voodooism and are just acting on their high horses. It's not this closed off religion; you just have to find someone who is willing to teach you. Now that is probably the most difficult part since it's not very much practiced nowadays. And even then, many of the practices are lost to time so no one actually knows fully what Voodooism entails.

The Amazon Deal

I will say this until the day I die. Amazon is not to blame for the count of episodes. That was all on A24. That's why the show was initially delayed. It was finished; they just hadn't found a streaming service yet. Viv even admitted that herself.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

It's the latter. The people who complain are in no way connected to Voodooism and are just acting on their high horses. It's not this closed off religion; you just have to find someone who is willing to teach you. Now that is probably the most difficult part since it's not very much practiced nowadays. And even then, many of the practices are lost to time so no one actually knows fully what Voodooism entails.

I will say this until the day I die. Amazon is not to blame for the count of episodes. That was all on A24. That's why the show was initially delayed. It was finished; they just hadn't found a streaming service yet. Viv even admitted that herself.

Im going to be real, just saying Amazon rolls off the tongue better than A24 either way, when Vivzie got a deal with any major studio rather than staying indie.

 

[Smity Werbenjagermanjensen]

1. The Amazon Deal: Given Vivzie has less episodes to work with and streaming services being notorious for cancelling projects, perhaps Vivzie put all that shit out there out of panic to at least let people who were waiting on Alastor for years to know what his whole deal is.

If I were in Viv's shoes, I would have let the story play out the way I planned it to, and if the show got canned, I would just make a very long and detailed social media thread about what would happen in later seasons. There's a couple other shows where this exact thing happened.

 

[Retink Retunk]

It's the latter. The people who complain are in no way connected to Voodooism and are just acting on their high horses. It's not this closed off religion; you just have to find someone who is willing to teach you. Now that is probably the most difficult part since it's not very much practiced nowadays. And even then, many of the practices are lost to time so no one actually knows fully what Voodooism entails.

I worked with a Hattian guy over ten years ago and I remember he was trying to tell me about voodoo but not by name. The way he talked about it in his country was that it was something you didn't want to fuck with but also something that's a spectacle you go to see and be freaked out by. It didn't come off as something sacred, more of something dangerous but you can watch like a freak show.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

I worked with a Hattian guy over ten years ago and I remember he was trying to tell me about voodoo but not by name. The way he talked about it in his country was that it was something you didn't want to fuck with but also something that's a spectacle you go to see and be freaked out by. It didn't come off as something sacred, more of something dangerous but you can watch like a freak show.

Yeah, it's one of those things that you can't really easily pinpoint. Besides what I've mentioned before with many aspects being lost to time, it's been incorpated into other religions and the practice is used for a variety of reasons. One place would see it differently from another.

 

[Retink Retunk]

For someone who hasn't kept up with the show has Lute or Velvette done anything interesting or have the V's been relegated to non characters?

 

[Grand Duke Snowfall]

For someone who hasn't kept up with the show has Lute or Velvette done anything interesting or have the V's been relegated to non characters?

Lute is prooooobably going to be a major antagonist in season 2, but I just know Viv will fuck that up somehow. Velvette has done nothing interesting, and she’ll probably continue to do nothing interesting despite the V’s being the focus villains of season 2.

 

[Retink Retunk]

Lute is prooooobably going to be a major antagonist in season 2, but I just know Viv will fuck that up somehow. Velvette has done nothing interesting, and she’ll probably continue to do nothing interesting despite the V’s being the focus villains of season 2.

I thought season 2 was out for some reason.

 

[RavioliHabit]

For someone who hasn't kept up with the show has Lute or Velvette done anything interesting or have the V's been relegated to non characters?

It was mentioned by Viv that The Vees are going to be the main antagonists of Season 2

 

[brownsuagrbubbletea]

Random thought here after lurking a bit:

Alastor’s asexuality makes little sense in terms of him being a serial killer. The overwhelming majority of serial killers are sexually motivated. It would make sense if he got a sexual thrill out of the killing itself, but maybe not being attracted to people in a ‘normal’ way. Whether or not this would still be considered asexual is up for debate. The ritual where he summoned Rosie felt sexual, what with all of the finger licking and spectral caresses.

As far as his ‘moral code’, I’m not against it, however it would be more interesting if Alastor were just a piece of shit person who tried to justify his actions to himself, rather than a Dexter Morgan type who is lawful and meticulous. Alastor could be the type of individual who feels superior to others because he only attacks ‘bad’ people, but it’s very surface level and would fall apart like a house of cards when prodded. Him accepting that he’s actually an irredeemable monster instead of deluding himself into thinking he’s justified might actually be an interesting story arc if we were looking at redemption.

Someone on the team probably shipped Rosie and Al and slipped it in lol.

Honestly the only thing I can see the whole Ace shit with Al and him being wanting a chase a certain high bc of that one special kill but every kill doesn’t compare to that one special kill thus keeps killing people to get it.