Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

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Do you believe that this series will turn to shit?

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    3,162
doodoocaca said:
Between the lack of any writers to tell her "that's retarded, do this" and lack of any space after A24/Amazon chopped it up into Zoomer brain rot, there wasn't any hope of competent execution.
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This show would thrive if it was actually written by an adult and not paced like an abridged series you'd see on Youtube a decade ago.
doodoocaca said:
Vaggie should be groveling and Visibly Too Nice, at least at the start, given a fallen exterminator would be beaten or raped to a pulp over and over in a real hell, and Charlie saved her from that.
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By all means, Vaggie should be fucking terrified about being stranded in Hell, where everyone would love to tear apart an angel like her for slaughtering them yearly, and the princess of the entire realm is the first person to show up.
 
Cave Fisher said:
This show would thrive if it was actually written by an adult and not paced like an abridged series you'd see on Youtube a decade ago.
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The premise suckered me and a lot of other people in, what can I say? People who have been through shit in life loved the premise, but then the final product is 💩.

Also, Team Four Star might have made this funny. Just gonna say that now.

Cave Fisher said:
By all means, Vaggie should be fucking terrified about being stranded in Hell, where everyone would love to tear apart an angel like her for slaughtering them yearly, and the princess of the entire realm is the first person to show up.
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This could have gone so many ways if we had a writer who wasn't an autistic fujoshi. It could have been layered. Actual fucking terror, actual tension. Even if it was a flashback and we knew they ended up, where's the fear or remorse? When did Charlie see what was going on, when Vaggie spared the kid, or after?

Someone in such a tenuous position, taken in by a powerful person, is going to act accordingly to survive. The opportunity for Charlie to show what she really is by not taking advantage, instead doing her best to defuse it all and making it clear she doesn't want that, instead offering companionship and showing Hell isn't what Heaven made it out be would have been amazing. Better still if this had room to breathe so Vaggie could see Hell is basically just a gigantic Gay LA with slightly better air quality, but Vivz wasn't even thinking about that.

What if it was a little hellish? What if Charlie actually acted like she had a devilish streak, being manipulative or "persuasive", like her father is the devil? 'Tism forbid there be grey areas or depth, even negative depth, in a hell show where the demons say fuck and heaven is just Salt Lake City. We got none of that, just like we got nothing of Angel acting like a traumatized, recovering hypersexual drug addict, Alastor actually being powerful or smart, or Husk being a former overlord.

We sure did get shoehorned bullshit about consent though!

That's what frustrates me. The hooks Vivz set up and forgot, despite tripping over so many of them, is so glaringly obvious it makes me want to kick things. She could have intentionally set up Hell as "just LA lol" and fleshed it out, but instead accidentally made it a cross between that and Idiocracy except gay, furry, and autistic. Or maybe it is bad, and it's bad in a way Charlie can articulate to Vaggie while trying to fix it. Actually flesh out what Lucifer is doing with the overlords?

Have a single friendship with a single fucking sinner!??! Why does Charlie care, how does she know? She's so oblivious and ignorant, how do we explain that?

Vivz treated hell as a cool visual thing with some stuff to doodle and something to research to put in little bits and bobs and details and other forms of thingness into her work, so she didn't have to actually come up with it herself. She just thinks it's cool, she doesn't grasp or appreciate the depth she tripped over, and managed to make the devil and his kid dumb, imperceptive, unpersuasive, sexless cardboard cutouts where the real star is an autistic butt monkey who literally failed up.

I thought we were getting show full of hurt people, for hurt people. Instead it's a show that hurts people's brains, made by a coddled autist. What a fucking microcosm of the world.
 
doodoocaca said:
Also, Team Four Star might have made this funny. Just gonna say that now.
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Oh, Team Four Star would ABSOLUTELY make this whole thing actually funny and enjoyable to watch, their version of Alucard is probably one of my favorite fictional vampires I think I've seen.
doodoocaca said:
We sure did get shoehorned bullshit about consent though!
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Yeah, then they had Sir Pentious get gangraped for a joke in the very same show, funny how that works.
doodoocaca said:
What if it was a little hellish? What if Charlie actually acted like she had a devilish streak, being manipulative or "persuasive", like her father is the devil? 'Tism forbid there be grey areas or depth, even negative depth, in a hell show where the demons say fuck and heaven is just Salt Lake City. We got none of that, just like we got nothing of Angel acting like a traumatized, recovering hypersexual drug addict, Alastor actually being powerful or smart, or Husk being a former overlord.
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It's funny that fucking BLITZO, some random imp the cast never meets, is more mean and violent than the whole HH cast combined. It would have been cool if Lucifer was you know...Lucifer, with all the charisma and brutality you'd expect to be needed to maintain an uncontested rule in a place like hell, while Charlie uses some of his same tactics to get the staff and resources she needs to actually get the hotel running. Maybe she doesn't even care about what she has to do to get the redemption thing working since she doesn't expect a hellborn like herself to be redeemed. Instead, she acts like a coddled autist written by a coddled autist.
 
We didn't even get a good writer on staff sneaking in some self awareness, that's what sucks the worst. We could have had an autistic devil, complete with melt downs, literal REEEEEEing, transforming into a devil-frog, all that shit, but noooooooo.

Likewise, Charlie is just this fucking (pillow) disney princess, a literal clone of Piper from Orange is the new Black, who queerbaited a fallen angel who is literally trapped with her now because the alternative is Literally Hell, and risking being identified as a fallen angel - but somehow Carmilla Carmine or whatever just doesn't care for some reason, gives her incredibly valuable angelic weaponry, and instead acts like a mom, and has her Charlie and Vaggie clone kids, despite dead sinners not being able to breed.

HOW DID A24 LET VIVZ FUCK UP THIS BAD?

Cave Fisher said:
their version of Alucard is probably one of my favorite fictional vampires I think I've seen.
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TFS Alucard Alastor would make up for everything so many fucking times over.

TFS Alucard Lucifer? Or TFS Popo Lucifer? I wish.

Cave Fisher said:
Yeah, then they had Sir Pentious get gangraped for a joke in the very same show, funny how that works.
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Fuck it, I'll respond to this. The double standard and the bullshit safe-edge-wokeness-in-hell was the turd cherry on top of this shit sundae.
 
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Feminojo.com ranks all the HH songs

Thoughts on all now

10. "Finale" (Fuck off Mojo, this one has probably the best chord progression and melodies in the whole show. Put it higher)
9. "Hell's Greatest Dad" (Literal 2012 cringe electro swing made even worse by the fat jew chick bursting in in the ending)
8. "Out for Love" (Spic song that kinda bangs. though agree that it's shorter than Daniel Larson's dick)
7. "Stayed Gone" (Annoying off-beat rap aside, should probably #3)
6. "You Didn't Know (Hamilton-tier garbage exposition song that crams like 10 episodes worth of material into 3 fucking minutes. Shit tier)
5. "Respectlesss" (Annoying af but it slaps, just like Valentino)
4. "More Than Anything" (Yeah...no. If I wanted to hear mopey love duet #124 I'd watch that Thief and the Cobbler jail duet scene from the Harvey Weinstein version)
3. "Hell is Forever" (only based character sings the most based song)
2. "Poison" (Faggotry, but it's faggotry that bangs)
HM
1. "Welcome to Heaven" (Faggotest song sung by the faggotest singer against the faggest instrumental)​
2. "Inside of Every Demon is a Rainbow" (Eh, good enough)​
3. "It Starts With Sorry" (Ngl, this one's so bad it's good)​
4. "Whatever It Takes" (Sounds like mid-2000s Simple Plan level shit)​
5. "Ready for This" (Great chorus, ruined by wonky ass vaudeville filler verses)​
1. "Loser, Baby" (Yeah, I'm not complaining, this deserves the top spot. Keith David is too good for this show)
 
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The whole Charlie and Vaggie first meeting was hastily rushed. Vaggie spares a child (which was most likely a hellborn, so it's not like she was not following orders), and gets her eye stabbed out and her wings torn off. Time probably has passed between then since she's wearing different clothes when Charlie goes up to her, though I don't know how long. Does Charlie do that to every hurt sinner she comes upon? Is that why Vaggie trusted her because Charlie was the first person in Hell to treat her nicely? Why are you looking away and putting your hair behind your ear like this is your high-school crush? You just met the girl and she's bleeding! So many unanswered questions that should get answered but aren't because we have to speed the story along, and get every little beat Viv wanted the first season to have because she can't accept the fact that she has to cut out some things because she only got 8 episodes instead of...how many she actually wanted. And people say, "Well, she'll probably get even more episodes next season, so she'll have more time to explain things". No. No, she won't. She's just going to add even more unnecessary fluff. Look back at any of Viv's previous works, the ones she actually has control of for how long she wants them to be. More time isn't what Viv needs. She needs to just say "no". Or have someone else tell her "no".
 
The "What if..." scenario where Charlie and Vaggie switch roles is an intriguing one. Vaggie is the cynical demon princess who grew up seeing the worst of humanity populate her dad's kingdom while Charlie is the optimistic angel who is big on redemption.

That central theme could be explored from these characters where Vaggie begrudgingly starts th hotel and maybe acts like Alastor in pilot; only doing it to show Charlie it's a waste of time and for her own entertainment. It could later be revealed that Charlie ended up in Hell in a similar manner as Vaggie did in the main series.

Of course, this would require planning out the series and not just making it a gay musical set in Hell.
 
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The Nothingness said:
The "What if..." scenario where Charlie and Vaggie switch roles is an intriguing one. Vaggie is the cynical demon princess who grew up seeing the worst of humanity populate her dad's kingdom while Charlie is the optimistic angel who is big on redemption.

That central theme could be explored from these characters where Vaggie begrudgingly starts th hotel and maybe acts like Alastor in pilot; only doing it to show Charlie it's a waste of time and for her own entertainment. It could later be revealed that Charlie ended up in Hell in the similar as Vaggie did in the main series. Of course, this would require planning out the series and not just making it a gay musical set in Hell.
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Someone else also brought up a musical fan animation where Adam switches roles with Charlie, Lute with Vaggie, etc. On the surface, it looked like an alternative story where Adam fights for his posterity, not on the battlefield, but in family court.

It makes much more sense, a loving father trying to save his children from the clutches of the evil princess of hell. But maybe Vivzie didn't do that either because she's got daddy issues, or because she's spent too much time around other people with daddy issues.
 
InJailOutSoon said:
Time probably has passed between then since she's wearing different clothes when Charlie goes up to her, though I don't know how long.
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It's super easy to miss, but there's a frame that shows Vaggie's exorcist uniform sticking out of a dumpster, so the implication is that she had her pilot outfit on underneath the whole time.
 
Ima be that guy and say Vaggie's flashback should've never happened in the first place. There is way more mystique to everyone involved here if we have to theorize why Adam banished her and how she met Charlie. You can even call it "fanfic fuel" but fuck it, a good writer knows when to fuel your imagination.

Her flashback (it's like 90 seconds) is awful enough but the fact that it even exists smells of cowardice to me, vivzie not trusting her own main couple to carry itself. Like deep inside, Vivzie thinks no one is going to like Vagie and believe she loves Charlie unless there is a scene confirming Vagie is a tragic lesbian saved by her gf.

This whole "There was no time! Wait for next season to elaborate" excuse was also used often by rwby, until the show died cause it was shit so it doesnt work anymore. People should avoid using this excuse cause it usually snowballs into disaster.
 
The Fair Lady said:
It's super easy to miss, but there's a frame that shows Vaggie's exorcist uniform sticking out of a dumpster, so the implication is that she had her pilot outfit on underneath the whole time.
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Huh...does that mean all exorcists wear clothes underneath their uniform?

That's kind of stupid.
 
I watched the latest episode of HB and I thought it was hilarious that Stolas unironically thought Blitzø would be his boyfriend instead of a fuck buddy.

My guy. Every fucking time you’ve invited him over, it’s always been about sex. Of course your precious little imp isn’t going to think about getting into a genuine relationship with you lmfao.
 
Roger Dennis said:
I watched the latest episode of HB and I thought it was hilarious that Stolas unironically thought Blitzø would be his boyfriend instead of a fuck buddy.

My guy. Every fucking time you’ve invited him over, it’s always been about sex. Of course your precious little imp isn’t going to think about getting into a genuine relationship with you lmfao.
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He's just a narcissist whose fantasy is crumbling, that's it. He's no better than his father but the fandom'll always find ways to feel bad for our poor, cheating, self-absorbed, emotionally unstable owl.
 
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