Grand Theft Auto Grieving Thread - Yep, I've been drinkin' again...

[White Devil]

...does it really need to? This *really* stinks of modern gamers needing games to be a movie that holds their hands or like Egoraptor complaining a game doesn't tell him how to play it. You drive around the map, you're going to see businesses for sale, you're going to start buying them.

I'll admit Pole Position is one that doesn't get any explanation at all, but it isn't like this was fucking 1986 and the internet/guides were not accessible. I'm pretty sure that's how I figured out Pole Position and Cherry Poppers days after launch.

The idea that someone would get to one part that is a little confusing or hard and would just give up or that it makes the game bad seems like such a modern gamer or speedrunner mindset to me. There are so many worse things to bring up with Vice City such as the Cherry Popper save corruption glitch, the fire fighter glitch, super cop glitch, or if we are talking about the PC version the frame limiter glitch.

Finally come full circle, where the generation before us thought games like GTA were too easy, and now modern day faggots think they're too hard because it's not a cut scene with button prompts.

 

[The Last Stand]

I'll admit Pole Position is one that doesn't get any explanation at all, but it isn't like this was fucking 1986 and the internet/guides were not accessible. I'm pretty sure that's how I figured out Pole Position and Cherry Poppers days after launch.

I remember having a computer around to help with some missions and cheat codes.

There are so many worse things to bring up with Vice City such as the Cherry Popper save corruption glitch, the fire fighter glitch, super cop glitch, or if we are talking about the PC version the frame limiter glitch.

I believe he was talking about VC's flawed game design, not unintentional glitches.

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

I believe he was talking about VC's flawed game design

And his points are weak. "It didn't tell me EXACTLY what to do." and "This mission is hard" isn't flawed game design, especially by the standards of 2002.

It's weird that he complains about not being told to do the assets when at the start he talks about how after GTAIII players would be primed to do side content first. His whole logic falls apart because he's coming at this from the idea that the assets are main content but then acts like nobody would be aware of this because the game doesn't tell you but also at the same time people would be going out of their way to do everything early to not get locked out.

Edit: It's even funnier that someone in the comments is like "I never even noticed I was't told to do assets. I just saw them available for sale and kept returning to them until they were unlocked to buy." and he's just like "That's fair but that wasn't THE INTENDED way to do it!"

How the fuck does this asshole know that? If they never make a big fucking spectacle of going out and buying them maybe that was the intention, that you would see that they are available for sale and go buy them when you were able?

He's also not factoring into how the physical map that came with the game made a point of pointing out every asset as a point of interest, further pushing you towards them.

He's really going out of his way to make this seem like some impossible thing to grasp as if the intended audience was 6 year olds and not adults. It's just so baffling to me that in Vice City this kind of explorative gameplay is considered a flaw but then in more modern games like Breath of the Wild people will call it a breath of fresh air or innovative.

I dunno, I guess I'm a bit MATI because I find the whole gamer mentality of everything that is old being "flawed design" just because they'r'e fucking retarded or impatient or whatever to be annoying as hell. They never take into account how gaming worked at the time of release and other such factors. At least AVGN was funny about it.

 

[The Last Stand]

I won't lie. I thought Avery missions were required to progress. Even so, they weren't that bad. Demolition Man gives you seven minutes.

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

I won't lie. I thought Avery missions were required to progress. Even so, they weren't that bad. Demolition Man gives you seven minutes.

Here's my sperg out I'll make about Demolition Man.

Is it tricky for a new time player? Sure. Introducing a completely new gameplay element into a game, let alone a series, will always be. That's not inherently a bad thing.

Good things about the mission are that there's no real consequence to failing the mission. You won't lose your weapons or money because you're not going to be wasted/busted, so you can do this mission as many times as you like and get used to helicopter controls early on.

The mission start point is so close to the actual RC van that it takes less than a minute to retry it. The timer doesn't start until you drop the first bomb. The actual RC Helicopter is fairly durable, and you can kill the enemies by basically touching them due to your small size and the blades.

The dropping of the bombs is very generous in regards to where the bomb lands in conjunction to being placed on the barrels when you drop it.

These are all elements of good design. They could have made it so you have to travel halfway across the map to trigger the mission or something. They could have had the timer start immediately. Could have made it so you had to hit the barrels in a very specific, unintuitive or difficult order. Make it so that the construction workers can't be killed or that their hammers do ridiculous damage to your helicopter. The bombs may have needed a precision drop directly onto the barrel. Etc. Etc.

There are a lot of fucking ways to have shitty design in this mission, so the fact it's "hard" or "tricky" isn't one of them unless you require absolutely no fucking challenge in your game and just want to watch a movie, which is basically what GTA V is with it's "you died three times, want to skip this entire section of this linear fucking set piece?" design.

 

[The Last Stand]

Here's my sperg out I'll make about Demolition Man.

Is it tricky for a new time player? Sure. Introducing a completely new gameplay element into a game, let alone a series, will always be. That's not inherently a bad thing.

Good things about the mission are that there's no real consequence to failing the mission. You won't lose your weapons or money because you're not going to be wasted/busted, so you can do this mission as many times as you like and get used to helicopter controls early on.

The mission start point is so close to the actual RC van that it takes less than a minute to retry it. The timer doesn't start until you drop the first bomb. The actual RC Helicopter is fairly durable, and you can kill the enemies by basically touching them due to your small size and the blades.

The dropping of the bombs is very generous in regards to where the bomb lands in conjunction to being placed on the barrels when you drop it.

These are all elements of good design. They could have made it so you have to travel halfway across the map to trigger the mission or something. They could have had the timer start immediately. Could have made it so you had to hit the barrels in a very specific, unintuitive or difficult order. Make it so that the construction workers can't be killed or that their hammers do ridiculous damage to your helicopter. The bombs may have needed a precision drop directly onto the barrel. Etc. Etc.

There are a lot of fucking ways to have shitty design in this mission, so the fact it's "hard" or "tricky" isn't one of them unless you require absolutely no fucking challenge in your game and just want to watch a movie, which is basically what GTA V is with it's "you died three times, want to skip this entire section of this linear fucking set piece?" design.

I actually didn't think of that. It IS quite lenient through experience. Many players did not know that the timer starts AFTER you pick up a bomb. The guards have bad accuracy.

 

[Jonah Hill poster]

When not trolling with GTA: San Andreas meme videos, RADAL actually brought some new points as to why the early beta testing for GTA VI doesn’t look that impressive to him.

 

[Xenomorphs Are Cute]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=wmt9kQtMpbo
When not trolling with GTA: San Andreas meme videos, RADAL actually brought some new points as to why the early beta testing for GTA VI doesn’t look that impressive to him.

Based Sosig.

 

[Ita Mori]

Seriously, I beat that shit when I was like ten years old, how the fuck are they struggling so hard with that one mission?

If he's playing on PC then the heli controls are both counter-intuitive and lack finesse due to no analog controls. Many PC autists hated and outright avoided these types of missions as a result.
Kinda akin to how lots of console spergs hated Air Raid in GTA SA due to a controller's piss poor aiming especially in the 6th gen and before.

VC doesn't properly explain its non-linear mission structure to the player.

Doesn't need to. It told you how to acquire businesses. Everything else will become clear in due time.

Admittedly, it doesn't do a proper job of explaining that you need businesses to progress. How would a new player know to watch strippers dance to complete the Pole Position asset?

- The internet was most definitely a thing by late 2002.
- Even if you didn't have access to it, it's logical to assume that the only thing you can do inside the joint must be related to having it become an income asset. Granted the time is a little on the longer side...
- If it's too cryptic for you to figure out, no worries; there's other businesses that are very straightforward and thus don't impede progress.

I really feel that guy was just whining because it's free to do so. Controls are one thing, being a fag who needs their hand held and guided for everything is just laziness.

 

[Prophetic Spirit]

If he's playing on PC then the heli controls are both counter-intuitive and lack finesse due to no analog controls. Many PC autists hated and outright avoided these types of missions as a result.
Kinda akin to how lots of console spergs hated Air Raid in GTA SA due to a controller's piss poor aiming especially in the 6th gen and before.


Doesn't need to. It told you how to acquire businesses. Everything else will become clear in due time.


- The internet was most definitely a thing by late 2002.
- Even if you didn't have access to it, it's logical to assume that the only thing you can do inside the joint must be related to having it become an income asset. Granted the time is a little on the longer side...
- If it's too cryptic for you to figure out, no worries; there's other businesses that are very straightforward and thus don't impede progress.

I really feel that guy was just whining because it's free to do so. Controls are one thing, being a fag who needs their hand held and guided for everything is just laziness.

The game itself explains to you the asset feature finishing Shakedown mission, just after claiming Diaz mansion. Isn't that clear to those fucks?

 

[Psyduck]

The game itself explains to you the asset feature finishing Shakedown mission, just after claiming Diaz mansion. Isn't that clear to those fucks?

Nonono you see, the game needed a bright pointer on your HUD that follows a dotted path to the nearest purchasable asset building

Havent watched the video but ill be surprised of the dude doesnt whine about a lack of autosave or something

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

Also I want to point out his points against "Messing with the Man" are pretty stupid too. He complains that there is a timer, so he can't go and get rockets and even then rockets don't fill up the meter faster than SMG's because it's filled by projectiles that hit and not damage done.

This is stupid because most new players would not have access to rockets and heavy weaponry at this point. Also that the entire point of the mission is to cause hell on a MOTORCYCLE, so of course the SMG would be the thing that fills the meter the fastest.

 

[The Last Stand]

Also I want to point out his points against "Messing with the Man" are pretty stupid too. He complains that there is a timer, so he can't go and get rockets and even then rockets don't fill up the meter faster than SMG's because it's filled by projectiles that hit and not damage done.

This is stupid because most new players would not have access to rockets and heavy weaponry at this point. Also that the entire point of the mission is to cause hell on a MOTORCYCLE, so of course the SMG would be the thing that fills the meter the fastest.

On PS2, there's a bug where you could shoot a burned police car repeatedly for points.

 

[Ita Mori]

Also that the entire point of the mission is to cause hell on a MOTORCYCLE, so of course the SMG would be the thing that fills the meter the fastest.

But I don't wanna play as an outlaw biker while doing missions for a renegade gang!! I thought GTA was all about freedom! Reeeeeee

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

But I don't wanna play as an outlaw biker while doing missions for a renegade gang!! I thought GTA was all about freedom! Reeeeeee

I'd more expect the response to be "Well if that is the case they should have FORCED ME to use the Motorcycle!"

 

[The Last Stand]

Also I want to point out his points against "Messing with the Man" are pretty stupid too. He complains that there is a timer, so he can't go and get rockets and even then rockets don't fill up the meter faster than SMG's because it's filled by projectiles that hit and not damage done.

This is stupid because most new players would not have access to rockets and heavy weaponry at this point. Also that the entire point of the mission is to cause hell on a MOTORCYCLE, so of course the SMG would be the thing that fills the meter the fastest.

That makes logical sense in hindsight.

He did another video on that style on GTA: SA. Now, SA is my least preferred GTA so I would be inclined to agree with his points.

Let's see what's what.

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

I've never dealt with the glitches and soft locks he talks about in the Los Santos section. This honestly stinks of being the fault of a weird specific PC version he uses for speed running to me.

Other than that, it's just a lot of "these few missions aren't that good" followed by "these missions slow down my speedrun" and finally "this game plays like a grand theft auto game"

I mean, at least the missions he complains about are legitimately jank and/or boring this time. I find it fucking weird he had no issues with End of the Line though...

 

[Psyduck]

Yeah, this feels more of a cash-in video, dude even starts with the youtubey "Seeing as my last video about this subject got so many views..."

None of the points he made really affected me, or anyone else i know who completed GTA SA, and most of the valid ones have been commonly agreed to be the weaker points of the game

Some missions are jank? We know.

Story takes a dive after Los Santos? We know.

Then there are some other points that felt like padding... Game doesn't tell you to upgrade your swimming before a certain mission? The Toreno fakeout is predictable? Ryder's death is anticlimactic? Okay...?

I can see some of those points making sense in a streaming speedrunner's POV, where you're trying to finish the game fast with as little deaths as possible, but then again most of us are not complete losers, and will never experience this at all.

By the end it feels like the dude is intentionally framing it in a way that'll make the more autistic fanboys respond (Why this beloved game is not as good as *you* remember) but that's that user engagement and all, can't hate the man for trying

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

I kind of hate how he frames these videos as things that a first time player would hate, but seems to do everything in a way a first time player would never do.

The thing about rushing through Catalina missions so that you end up doing the two races back to back is kind of bullshit. In his head, it's absolutely IMPOSSIBLE that anyone would have bothered to do any underwater exploring because no mission forces you to do it.

He never factors in that most first time players, at least back when these games released, would have spent a lot of time exploring the map and doing side content between missions. Just Speedrunner Brain all over the place.

 

[The Last Stand]

I've never dealt with the glitches and soft locks he talks about in the Los Santos section. This honestly stinks of being the fault of a weird specific PC version he uses for speed running to me.

Other than that, it's just a lot of "these few missions aren't that good" followed by "these missions slow down my speedrun" and finally "this game plays like a grand theft auto game"

I agree with a couple things from his video. Some missions are poorly designed and the second half of the game feels rushed.

Wrong Side of the Tracks being the defining example of that poor design. It's not even Smoke's aim, it's the extravagant health the Vagos have. That is a massive difficulty spike. And, I have gotten stuck on the first mission as a kid because of the Ballas car.