UN Government Shutdown Megathread/Updates - News of the ongoing/halted Goverment Shutdown from 12/22/18 -1/25/19

Here's the news of the Government Shutdown as of 1/22/19

It's been a month now since this shutdown started which started back in December and no deal seems to be coming.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...day-32-as-democrats-vow-to-reject-trump-offer

"The longest government shutdown in U.S. history entered its 32nd day on Tuesday with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell expected to call up legislation to advance a proposal from President Donald Trump, which Democrats have already said they’ll reject.


The president said in a Jan. 19 speech he would support a mix of immigration-related proposals in exchange for $5.7 billion to build a wall or other barriers along the border. Trump’s supporters, including Vice President Mike Pence, pointed to the offer as evidence of the president’s willingness to strike a compromise with Democrats.


Pelosi’s Democrats, meanwhile, plan more votes of their own in the House to reopen the government, with a new offer of $1 billion for border upgrades -- but not a wall -- on tap this week.

 

[Manah]

Certain people in this thread are trying really hard to pretend that this is a disaster for Trump politically.

Last time I checked, this cease to the government shutdown was temporary, only lasting three weeks, and if negotiations aren't settled (presumably for the wall), then it's government shutdown time again, with an added bonus of state of emergency.

The wall is coming, come hell or high water. It's just a matter of time.

It's a bigger deal than it might seem because most of the people affected were contractors and won't get back paid.

I don't think this is going to affect Trump's credibility with his core voting base, though.

I thought the Democrats were pushing the "those poor people on food stamps and government workers, so mean Trump" now it's "ha Trump is a pussy!". The only thing it makes them look like is opportunistic backstabbers who use whatever group they need as a political tool.



I don't really follow, I keep having the media tell me that he's this massive liar, but then I go to investigate and it's found the media have been the liars.

View attachment 649450

The thing where he tweeted about having beaten ISIS is the most recent example off the top of my head.

You could argue that it wasn't a lie, and he genuinely did think ISIS was dead and buried, but I feel like at that point it's splitting hairs.

 

[repentance]

I still think the wall needs to be more figurative as in stricter enforcement of the border, more stringient I.D. laws, etc. If you really wanna immigrate here, prove it.

Isn't the primary issue one of whether the asylum-seekers are actually refugees under the internationally agreed meaning of the term or whether they're really economic migrants who don't meet the criteria for conventional migration and are trying to use asylum as a loophole, though - meaning that if they're admitted it's at the expense of actual refugees (of which most western countries only take a limited amount each year)?

Your border crossers are the equivalent of our boat people and I can't help feeling that your solution has to be as harsh as our "Pacific Solution" in the short term, allowing you to stem the tide so that you can come up with long term solutions for those already in the US and develop robust policy for the future.

 

[Puppet Pal Clem]

I like how Democrats are declaring victory when he basically said he'll just use the National Emergency if they don't give it to him in 3 weeks.

 

[Optimus Prime]

I still think the wall needs to be more figurative as in stricter enforcement of the border, more stringient I.D. laws, etc. If you really wanna immigrate here, prove it.

If it was actually in those terms then I would think the Dems would be microscopically more likely to actually be in agreement.

But it's not. Trump's rhetoric from the beginning has always been about a literal physical wall that just sits on the border between the US and Mexico. Effectively the second coming of the Berlin Wall with every single reason why it would fail miserably. Not to mention of the drug cartels actually would have a problem with random places being blocked off by some kind of fortification, they could literally engage in siege warfare and plant mines under the wall to bring it down, they already are masters of digging entire tunnel networks several miles away from the border in every direction to bypass security.

But to me, it's not actually because Trump believes a wall is going to actually work, from what I've gathered he didn't even want to win the election, just use it as a PR stunt to launch Trump TV off of, but then he did win and he's been dragging his heels on it for two years. Since he's locked in at this point, the wall has become his own self-styled monument to his ego, because there's literally nothing else in his current reign as president that can truly be pointed at and be called historically notable.

I like how Democrats are declaring victory when he basically said he'll just use the National Emergency if they don't give it to him in 3 weeks.

I think the idea there is that Trump trying to force a National Emergency is going to just cause more problems for him because it isn't a 'get out of jail free' card, so to speak, by getting around the democrats to fund his stupid wall - there's a major caveat to that kind of power. A lot of publications cite the case of Youngstown Sheet & Tube Company v. Sawyer, where Truman tried to play a National Emergency to get around a steel worker strike and the Supreme Court slapped his hand down, stating that a President can only act as such in cases where he is authorized to do so by the Constitution or by Congress.

I honestly don't know how that'll hold up but I'd like to think the Republicans are honestly getting tired of Trump's shit and the damage he's causing to their voter base and thus won't support him trying to become even more of an absolute leader trying to get around the checks and balances of the American Government.

 

[vern]

He should just threaten to take it out of the military budget.

That doesn't seem to far fetch actually since if I remember US history correctly, wasn't the interstate highway network partly funded through a similar method due to one of reason (albeit a minor one) behind its building was in case of a emanate soviet attack it would allow for quick evacuation of targeted areas for civilians and make it easier for the military to move throughout the country

 

[Puppet Pal Clem]

the damage he's causing to their voter base

Unconvinced of this.

Either way, the Democrats should give him the wall, and take something equal in turn.
If they don't, he has everything to gain. He'll get his wall, and they lose it as leverage.

It's lot easier to interpret border security action as a national crisis than a workers strike.

 

[Lipitor]

 

[Dracula's Spirit Animal]

But to me, it's not actually because Trump believes a wall is going to actually work, from what I've gathered he didn't even want to win the election, just use it as a PR stunt to launch Trump TV off of, but then he did win and he's been dragging his heels on it for two years. Since he's locked in at this point, the wall has become his own self-styled monument to his ego, because there's literally nothing else in his current reign as president that can truly be pointed at and be called historically notable..

I don't think I buy that. I think he ran with complete genuine attempt, but didn't expect to win. I think he's, in his own way, utterly frustrated and tired of the lunacy of the direction the US has headed since Reagan. Watching a bunch of his rallies, he reminded me of the episode of the Boondocks when MLK comes out of a coma, and is shocked at what happened to America. Not to say he's MLK, but I saw the frustration and despair of what has happened to America in the same way.

 

[Medicated]

I think the idea there is that Trump trying to force a National Emergency is going to just cause more problems for him because it isn't a 'get out of jail free' card, so to speak, by getting around the democrats to fund his stupid wall - there's a major caveat to that kind of power. A lot of publications cite the case of Youngstown Sheet & Tube Company v. Sawyer, where Truman tried to play a National Emergency to get around a steel worker strike and the Supreme Court slapped his hand down, stating that a President can only act as such in cases where he is authorized to do so by the Constitution or by Congress.

I honestly don't know how that'll hold up but I'd like to think the Republicans are honestly getting tired of Trump's shit and the damage he's causing to their voter base and thus won't support him trying to become even more of an absolute leader trying to get around the checks and balances of the American Government.

I find it interesting how people constantly refer to it as "his wall" as if he just decided one day during the Presidency to do it and shocked everyone. He was elected on that very platform. Now it's "Trumps mad he's not getting his pet project!"??? And we know the Democrats are doing everything in their power to stop it from happening. Resulting in the longest govt shutdown in history.

So who is really at fault here? Someone doing what they campaigned on? Or people who think Election campaign promises should be forgotten about the second they enter office? I mean fuck the voters right?

I don't think Trumps been dragging his feet on the wall, the prototypes were constructed in 2018 and various agencies have been testing and critiquing them for the last year. Wondering whether they should be indestructible or simply a psychological and physical impediment to make Border Security agents jobs easier.

And if Trump hadn't entered the race last term for President, I think the Republicans would be in eternal opposition.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Unconvinced of this.

Either way, the Democrats should give him the wall, and take something equal in turn.
If they don't, he has everything to gain. He'll get his wall, and they lose it as leverage.

It's lot easier to interpret border security action as a national crisis than a workers strike.

Question is, what exactly can Trump even give to equal the wall? His grand plan of temporarily preserving DACA went out the window when the Supreme Court delayed that action until 2020.

I don't think I buy that. I think he ran with complete genuine attempt, but didn't expect to win. I think he's, in his own way, utterly frustrated and tired of the lunacy of the direction the US has headed since Reagan.

I disagree - his recorded reaction upon learning he won the election is not somebody who looks overly pleased to have won.

I find it interesting how people constantly refer to it as "his wall" as if he just decided one day during the Presidency to do it and shocked everyone. He was elected on that very platform. Now it's "Trumps mad he's not getting his pet project!"??? And we know the Democrats are doing everything in their power to stop it from happening. Resulting in the longest govt shutdown in history.

So who is really at fault here? Someone doing what they campaigned on? Or people who think Election campaign promises should be forgotten about the second they enter office? I mean fuck the voters right?

I don't think Trumps been dragging his feet on the wall, the prototypes were constructed in 2018 and various agencies have been testing and critiquing them for the last year. Wondering whether they should be indestructible or simply a psychological and physical impediment to make Border Security agents jobs easier.

And if Trump hadn't entered the race last term for President, I think the Republicans would be in eternal opposition.

IIRC there was a point where there actually was a $25 billion funding package for the wall at the senate - I'm not entirely sure why it failed to pass, but needless to say Trump is trying to play hardball and he's flailing because Pelosi and the Democrats are calling his BS - something he's never been able to counter effectively in business if his numerous bankruptcies is any indication.

 

[Dracula's Spirit Animal]

I disagree - his recorded reaction upon learning he won the election is not somebody who looks overly pleased to have won.

He didn't think he'd win. "Oh fuck! It's happening! Get your shit together." Seemed just as valid an interpretation.

IIRC there was a point where there actually was a $25 billion funding package for the wall at the senate - I'm not entirely sure why it failed to pass, but needless to say Trump is trying to play hardball and he's flailing because Pelosi and the Democrats are calling his BS - something he's never been able to counter effectively in business if his numerous bankruptcies is any indication.

Maybe. I think i'm getting a whiff of TDS here, though.

 

[Rev]

This whole shituation is fucked, no leader in their right mind would pull a stunt like this. But none of this should be shocking.
Trump's no political leader, he never has been. He's a businessman/ celebrity. Need I remind you that he's never held any political office before?
I don't hate him tho, because nothing he does surprises me. It really isn't his fault, he has so little experience and is not the most important man in America.

What is crazy is that there's really no (meaningful) requirements to run for president. You don't NEED experience to be president. That's why you have fuckers like that wizard guy with the boot on his head. The one that promised to give everyone ponies if he was elected. His whole campaign does nothing but mock our system, yet he could still be our president if he got the votes.

TL;DR
What'd y'all dumbasses expect?

 

[RadicalCentrist]

This whole shituation is fucked, no leader in their right mind would pull a stunt like this. But none of this should be shocking.
Trump's no political leader, he never has been. He's a businessman/ celebrity. Need I remind you that he's never held any political office before?
I don't hate him tho, because nothing he does surprises me. It really isn't his fault, he has so little experience and is not the most important man in America.

What is crazy is that there's really no (meaningful) requirements to run for president. You don't NEED experience to be president. That's why you have fuckers like that wizard guy with the boot on his head. The one that promised to give everyone ponies if he was elected. His whole campaign does nothing but mock our system, yet he could still be our president if he got the votes.

TL;DR
What'd y'all dumbasses expect?

It gets even worse - we recognize ALL Americans intrinsic rights and liberties, with no perquisite or merit needed. Truly, we need a class of -rigorously tested and educated- elite to rule us as they see fit.

 

[It's HK-47]

This whole shituation is fucked, no leader in their right mind would pull a stunt like this. But none of this should be shocking.
Trump's no political leader, he never has been. He's a businessman/ celebrity. Need I remind you that he's never held any political office before?
I don't hate him tho, because nothing he does surprises me. It really isn't his fault, he has so little experience and is not the most important man in America.

What is crazy is that there's really no (meaningful) requirements to run for president. You don't NEED experience to be president. That's why you have fuckers like that wizard guy with the boot on his head. The one that promised to give everyone ponies if he was elected. His whole campaign does nothing but mock our system, yet he could still be our president if he got the votes.

TL;DR
What'd y'all dumbasses expect?

All of the politicians with decades of experience are literally just as fucking useless as your average Joe would be. If people like Bernie Sanders and Maxine Waters and Jeb Bush and Bill Kristol can be in politics longer than most people have been alive and still be butt-fuckingly useless, I don't see why I wouldn't want to vote for Vermin Supreme.

If politics are going to be a joke, they might as well be a funny one.

 

[Umaibae]

Can somebody explain why adults who work for the government and receive all sorts of other cushy benefits have to wait in soup lines? Money management 101: have a few months worth of expenses in liquid cash and invest the rest because you never know when you might have an emergency. Plus light googling of pics, everybody in the food lines seems to be schlubby white guys in DC.

Anecdotal but I talked with a guy who has been out of work because of the shutdown. He can’t buy a new TV for the super bowl but he’s been spending more time with his kids.

What cushy benefits do you think these people get? Federal jobs aren't like the military, where everything is paid fora no you get good insurance. Also, government salaries are notoriously low. A job that would be something like $60-80k in the private sector is easily $25-45k depending on location if you work for the federal government. Not to mention, a lot of the hourly employees don't get many benefits at all.

I just don't get the logic of people here sometimes. Isn't it better for someone to be working a $15/hr TSA job than getting SSI and food stamps and not having a job at all? If they needed to take advantage of a free meal being offered to them by private citizens or charities because they haven't been getting paid for a month, why is that so awful? And think of the Coast Guard folks, too. Lots of military wives don't work, but these families usually have a ton of kids. If daddy's paycheck isn't coming in, what happens when the kids need diapers and formula?

It's pretty hard to save money on low wages in America. Maybe these people did have a small savings, and they using it to pay bills. I have no issue with folks getting a fucking meal from a food pantry.

 

[RadicalCentrist]

Isn't it better for someone to be working a $15/hr TSA job than getting SSI and food stamps and not having a job at all?

TSA agents are literal parasites. They provide no demonstrable benefit in exchange for making airline travel a nightmare. Also federal employee's get all student loans repaid and can never, ever be fired, even for the grossest misconduct.

 

[Obviously Snape]

Also federal employee's get all student loans repaid

Do you have a source for this because I know they have student loan assistance but the best I've seen is $5k / yr and only for a certain number of years?

 

[Umaibae]

TSA agents are literal parasites. They provide no demonstrable benefit in exchange for making airline travel a nightmare. Also federal employee's get all student loans repaid and can never, ever be fired, even for the grossest misconduct.

No, only certain individuals working in certain sectors of government get loans forgiven after 10 years of service. A study about it recently came out, and only less than 100 people have gotten the benefit at all. (Also, non-profit employees get it, too. You wanna get mad at them?)

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/21/the...-data-shows-how-rare-loan-forgiveness-is.html

I know it's EdGy to hate on TSA workers, but the anger is misdirected, bro. Hating on a low-level minimum wage worker and not the system is like those PETA people who harass McDonald's employees working the drive through.

 

[The Last Stand]

If politics are going to be a joke, they might as well be a funny one.

>tfw American politics is such a joke, anybody can do what they want and ppl would eat it up

 

[RadicalCentrist]

I know it's EdGy to hate on TSA workers, but the anger is misdirected, bro. Hating on a low-level minimum wage worker and not the system is like those PETA people who harass McDonald's employees working the drive through.

The difference being I have no choice but to deal with them and they have the power to cavity search anyone at any time. All for our "safety." But yeah, just like McDonalds!