UN Government Shutdown Megathread/Updates - News of the ongoing/halted Goverment Shutdown from 12/22/18 -1/25/19

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Here's the news of the Government Shutdown as of 1/22/19

It's been a month now since this shutdown started which started back in December and no deal seems to be coming.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...day-32-as-democrats-vow-to-reject-trump-offer

"The longest government shutdown in U.S. history entered its 32nd day on Tuesday with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell expected to call up legislation to advance a proposal from President Donald Trump, which Democrats have already said they’ll reject.


The president said in a Jan. 19 speech he would support a mix of immigration-related proposals in exchange for $5.7 billion to build a wall or other barriers along the border. Trump’s supporters, including Vice President Mike Pence, pointed to the offer as evidence of the president’s willingness to strike a compromise with Democrats.


Pelosi’s Democrats, meanwhile, plan more votes of their own in the House to reopen the government, with a new offer of $1 billion for border upgrades -- but not a wall -- on tap this week.
 
To be perfectly honest with you, if I didn't keep up with politics as much as I do, I'd never have even noticed that the government was shut down in the first place, let alone shut down for the longest time in the history of the country.
 
So politifact's conservative estimate on the cost of a government shutdown is about 8 million bucks an hour. That means a bit over 6 billion dollars so far. Which means we just threw away a wall.

How much does the government shutdown cost?
By Jon Greenberg on Friday, January 18th, 2019 at 12:00 p.m.


Shutdown_Sac_sign.jpg

A man heading into the Sacramento International Airport passes demonstrators calling for President Donald Trump and Washington lawmakers to end the shutdown. (AP Photo/Rich Pedroncelli)
Democratic presidential candidate John Delaney, a former Maryland congressman, poured cold water on fans of small government who support the current partial shutdown.

"Interesting that some of Trump's advisers think shutdown shrinks government," Delaney tweeted Jan. 15 in response to a news report. "It costs between $12-20 Million more an HOUR to run gov't during shutdown - it's MORE expensive to run a closed government."


Really?

In past shutdowns, we found that it does cost more to close the government than keep it open.

When this partial shutdown ends, Washington has agreed to pay government employees every penny they were due, even if they didn’t work during the impasse. For those who didn’t work, the government will have paid for the value of the work not done.

Every shutdown is different and calculating the cost of any shutdown is a dicey business. The estimates for the partial shutdown so far are imprecise — so we are not rating this on the Truth-O-Meter.

With no resolution in sight, however, it's safe to say the impact will only grow.

Tricky estimates
Delaney’s office said his number starts with an analysis from the 2013 shutdown that lasted 16 days. The consulting firm IHT Global Insight estimated that it cost the government $12.5 million an hour to furlough 800,000 workers. That was the price tag to pay people for work not done.

Delaney also looked at the impact on federal revenues. Independent analysts said the shutdown reduced growth by about $23 billion. Money not earned is money not taxed, according to Delaney’s team, and those lost revenues came out to an hourly cost of nearly $20 million an hour.

Recent articles in Fortune, the New York Times and Politico support the idea that it’s cheaper to keep the government running. They note that the Office of Management and Budget estimated that the cost of the 16-day 2013 shutdown included $2 billion in compensation paid for work not done. Plus, unpaid workers cut back on shopping, which sends ripple effects through the wider economy. Many government contractors make less and that also puts a drag on GDP.

But none of those articles landed on a final price tag, much less an hourly rate.

Unpaid workers are the key
Of all the impacts of a shutdown, the matter of paying furloughed workers is the clearest hit on the government’s wallet.

In economic terms, people who work without pay are very different from those who are furloughed. Those who work without pay provide a service. Setting aside their personal pain, when they finally get their paychecks, the scales roughly balance out.

But the furloughed employees, who don't work at all during the shutdown, are given back pay after the government reopens, even though they didn't render any services during the closure.

Based on department and agency shutdown plans and a New York Times analysis of the total payroll due, we calculated that across 10 agencies, Washington owes 240,000 workers about $1.2 billion, as of Delaney’s tweet, made on Day 25 of the shutdown.

Two caveats: Nearly 30 agencies and departments remain unfunded, but we dug into only the largest ones, meaning our figure is an undercount. We left about 20,000 workers out of the equation. Also, our estimate is a snapshot. The number grows as the shutdown lingers.

As of the day Delaney posted his tweet, there were 15 work days without pay. (We don’t count weekends and holidays). Remember, our goal is to put an hourly value on the work not done. Assuming staff work a typical eight-hour day, that $1.2 billion breaks down to a value of lost labor of $10 million per hour.

Economic costs
Another major cost to the government comes through lower tax revenues. Shutdowns hurt the economy, and as it declines, so do tax collections.

Kevin Hassett, chair of the White House Council of Economic Advisors, said that the shutdown "should not have a long-run effect on GDP growth." But he has offered two estimates of what the short term costs could be.

Initially, on Jan. 3, he said a rule of thumb is every two weeks cuts 0.1 percent from real GDP. The most recent government figures put the economy at $20.65 trillion, or about $2.4 billion an hour. Twenty-four full shutdown days had passed on the day Delaney posted his tweet. Hassett’s rule of thumb yields a hit on the economy of $4 million an hour.

Hassett later upped his estimate, saying that the decline could be .26 percent every two weeks. That would raise the short term economic cost to about $10 million an hour.

Since federal taxes are 17 percent of GDP, that $10 million an hour translates into about $1.7 million less in taxes for each hour of the shutdown.

To bring the pieces together, between paying for work not done and lost revenues, then a conservative estimate is that the shutdown costs Washington at least $12 million an hour. (It’s conservative if only because we didn’t count all furloughed workers, so we know our estimate is too low.)

There might be other costs, such as fees not collected at national parks or potentially late payment fees on bills from contractors that go unpaid. The extent of those won't be known until well after the shutdown ends.

Hassett argued that growth would make up for the short-term losses. Gary Burtless, an economist at the Brookings Institution, says the opposite might be true.

"A malfunctioning, unreliable government undermines confidence, pushes citizens and businesses to take costly measures to protect themselves against added uncertainty and risk, and deprives the public sector from obtaining the services of some talented workers who look elsewhere for employment," Burtless said.

If that’s the case, then the costs go up again.

Our simplest takeaway: Whether it's an extra $8 million an hour or $15 million an hour, it costs a lot to shutter even just part of the government.


About this article
Researchers: Jon Greenberg
 
I am not really into politics or update myself on those topics, but is it true that food inspections have stopped due to the shutdown? I've seen a lot of people talking about it and it worries me a little if I am honest.
 
I'll be honest, I don't see how the end game plays out here.

Trump can't back down, he's too invested in this.

Pelosi won't, because she has no reason to - she's apparently untouchable.
 
I'll be honest, I don't see how the end game plays out here.

Trump can't back down, he's too invested in this.

Pelosi won't, because she has no reason to - she's apparently untouchable.
More like neither won't back down because they can't back down without their own voting blocs and parties turning against them or splitting. Trump backs down, that means the people that voted him in for border security will accuse him of backing off from his campaign promises and that may cost him 2020. Pelosi backs down, that will ultimately result in the Ocasio-Cortezes and Sanders of the party (ie those further left from the center-left neolibs that make up the party's oldguard and control the purse strings) will be so fed up that they may split away from the DNC for failing to stand up against Super Fucking Hitler Satan and his racist baby killing wall.

Either way, things should be quite interesting no matter the outcome
 
How does society function if the government shuts down? Like, what does it actually entail?
Governments only really exist for border security and building roads, everything else is just icing. Or parasitism, depending on the context. The former is something the government refuses to deal with and the latter tend to last a long time. Of course a moot point since the government isn't actually shut down.

So politifact's conservative estimate on the cost of a government shutdown is about 8 million bucks an hour. That means a bit over 6 billion dollars so far. Which means we just threw away a wall.
The article assumes that paying government employees for work not done is somehow unique to a shutdown and not just business as usual.
 
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Hopefully they make a list of all the employeess expecting to get paid for work they didnt do so they can fire them. Isn't the shutdown reaching the point where the president can lay off tons of these parasites?
 
Hopefully they make a list of all the employeess expecting to get paid for work they didnt do so they can fire them. Isn't the shutdown reaching the point where the president can lay off tons of these parasites?
The list will be so they can reward them for how little they did.

My grandfather worked in procurement. The job description, in theory, is to move the paperwork as fast as possible so that proposals that meet the requirements get approved. He did this at a fast clip and worked as an intermediary between companies and the various offices that inevitably threw up roadblocks due to bureaucracy. This was the function of his position. It was a total dead end position. Not because of his performance, but because of the performance of his coworkers. At one point, a woman in his office took an entire year to get one contract's paper work done. She got a commendation and a promotion, because since it took her an entire year it was clearly an incredibly difficult job and that she finished it at all was testament to what a great worker she was. This is standard operating procedure in these things.

Most government workers are parasitic trash that got their jobs entirely due to nepotism and keep them because they're promoted up so their old superiors don't have to deal with them. And everyone's crying for these poor fuckers? Where was the media when you were laid off? Did you get back pay? Special credit unions offering loans only you could access? Or did you have to bust your ass finding a new job? Where were the sob stories then?

Fuck the government, fuck socialists, fuck statists.
 
I am not really into politics or update myself on those topics, but is it true that food inspections have stopped due to the shutdown? I've seen a lot of people talking about it and it worries me a little if I am honest.
No, the FDA and USDA are still doing them, just unpaid for now. I work in the industry.

Edit to add - you might be surprised how ineffective these inspections usually are even when people are getting paid. Buy less processed food whenever you can - trust me.
 
Here’s my theory and I base this on absolutely nothing:
The real reason behind the shutdown is to stop the SNAP/EBT/welfare payments.
Because when the riots begin, Trump can declare a national emergency and nobody will be insane enough to try and stop him.
The border issues are too far away and too abstract for most people, but cities burning and large scale looting is closer to home.
 
Here’s my theory and I base this on absolutely nothing:
The real reason behind the shutdown is to stop the SNAP/EBT/welfare payments.
Because when the riots begin, Trump can declare a national emergency and nobody will be insane enough to try and stop him.
The border issues are too far away and too abstract for most people, but cities burning and large scale looting is closer to home.
I'm pretty sure that stuff is still happening through state governments. Most peoples' interaction with government in day to day life are with state government, even if it's stuff they'll later be paid for through the Fed.
 
It was snowing today and my commute was similar to a non-federal government shutdown day. It's been like a month of MLK days for me, I bet I've gained 6-8 extra hours in my life that normally would have been lost to my commute.

It's awesome. America has been made Great Again(tm).
 
I live next to a massive military installation and near to the Mexican border. The shutdown has only effected the bottom rung of government contractors, and thats fine, they're worthless jobs programs for dependapotami and should be shut down anyhow. DoD, DoJ, DHS and the VA, the 4 largest employers in this very federal town, are all pretty untouched by the shutdown, especially the DoD considering the nature of the base. The only way the shutdown has really had any effect here is my sister-in-law can't get her name changed since she just got married
 
I want to see Trump throw more crazy bones like single payer in exchange for the wall just so the democrats have to vote against it. They already rejected his DACA proposal.

What’s funny to me is how the Democrats whine about the federal employees not being paid and when given an out they don’t take because of the “racist wall”. Seems to me they’re the ones responsible for this shut down.
Really, even if Trump doesn't get into the house in 2020, I can bet you that they still wouldn't want the DNC coming in and fucking things further than they currently have.

Seriously, the shutdown is their fault at this point and they're only digging themselves further into that hole with every r.etarded move they make. I can't see the party lasting in its current state for much longer. Either something's got to give and they reform themsevles entirely by kicking out the old people like Pelosi and Clinton, or they disband completely and a new party takes its place.
 
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