General Wrestling Discussion

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In 98-99 Austin was so over that it didn't matter to the crowds if he was having good matches or not, they just wanted him to win or get the upper hand against Mr. McMahon. It wasn't mostly smarks watching back then who just want to see "5 star matches" and have no emotional investment in who wins. Austin was able to do more with less, just like Hogan did when he was on top.
 
Austin in 2001 when he was still the top guy was having great matches.
- Triple H in the Three Stages of Hell
- Rock at WM 17
- Austin/Triple H vs Benoit/Jericho for the tag team title on Raw
- Benoit on SmackDown
- Angle at SummerSlam
- Survivor Series (though to be fair that was a collaborative effort)
Ironically enough most of those were during his hated heel run.
 
MFW I fuck my enemy's wife because I hate him and want to hurt him emotionally, but it turns out he's into that.

You're a brave man. Did his wife ever not look like a fridge?

Synn.webp
 
In 98-99 Austin was so over that it didn't matter to the crowds if he was having good matches or not, they just wanted him to win or get the upper hand against Mr. McMahon. It wasn't mostly smarks watching back then who just want to see "5 star matches" and have no emotional investment in who wins. Austin was able to do more with less, just like Hogan did when he was on top.
I remember how popular Austin & the Rock were in 1999-early 2000s when even those who don't watch pro wrestling all the time know/have an idea of who they are. It was a time where you weren't embarrassed to talk about wrestling in front of normies.
 
I remember how popular Austin & the Rock were in 1999-early 2000s when even those who don't watch pro wrestling all the time know/have an idea of who they are. It was a time where you weren't embarrassed to talk about wrestling in front of normies.

It's really difficult to explain to someone how popular wrestling was in the latter part of 90's if they didn't live through it. It truly was something that was considered cool. I remember in elementary, every Monday after a ppv and every Tuesday after a Raw and Nitro, the topic of discussion was always wrestling. And it wasn't something you hid either, shit you even talked about it in front of the girls, and even some of them were into wrestling.
 
It's really difficult to explain to someone how popular wrestling was in the latter part of 90's if they didn't live through it. It truly was something that was considered cool. I remember in elementary, every Monday after a ppv and every Tuesday after a Raw and Nitro, the topic of discussion was always wrestling. And it wasn't something you hid either, shit you even talked about it in front of the girls, and even some of them were into wrestling.
I know the feeling and sadly it's something that can't be replicated again. I remember some of the girls were familiar with Too Cool. Freaking Too Cool.
 
A typical Stone Cold match at the height of his popularity was glass shatter, milk theme music by standing on all four turnbuckles, punch, punch, jump on top of a guy straddling him, punch punch, throw him into the corner, sloppy stomps, double birds, stunner, beer chug.
I'd say that speaks to Austin's talent if that's all he has to do to get his ass over.

I'm reminded of an anecdote where a young Kevin Nash saw Jake Roberts, with skinny legs and a pot belly, no-selling punches and thought to himself 'why the fuck am I killing myself out there when he can get away with that?'

I know you mentioned his mic skills/charisma, but that is a huge thing to consider with any dude. Austin could talk circles around most guys. I'd recommend checking out his famous ECW promos if you haven't seen them. I also personally liked a lot of his 'I'm PISSED OFF' promos where he had a chip on his shoulder with Bret Hart. Plus all the shit with Vince.

There's a reason why Austin was the top guy and not Headbanger Mosh (or whoever.)
97 was Bret Hart if I'm not mistaken so that's that. In 98 a few wrestlers that I can think of that did way more moves that can come to mind were Rock, HHH, Foley, Owen if they would have booked him right, I don't know I wasn't familiar with the product because we didn't have until about 1999.
Owen's about the only guy who really fits the bill. Rock was VERY raw back then and even at his peak he had an incredibly limited moveset. Maybe Hunter, but I always thought he was really fucking one dimensional. And Foley was hobbled even back then.

You had guys who were good workrate guys, but you also had dudes like Taker, Kane, and Sid. Plus some of the guys were either saddled with horrendous gimmicks (Flash Funk/2 Cold Scorpio, Goldust), were hobbled with injuries (Foley, Mero, and Pillman), had limited ceilings (Ahmed, Shamrock, D'Lo) or were potential liabilities (Michaels and Bulldog were both pillheads, amongst others) or were on the outs due to political issues (Vader with the Kliq and Jarrett due to his dad stiffing Austin on paycheques back in the day.)

Austin could work up or down to the level of his opponents. He could get serviceable matches out of guys like Kane or Big Show, something which Triple H struggled and failed to do. Add being reliable, able to talk and being over as fuck makes it a no brainer he was in the position he was in.

I don't disagree it got very formulaic at points and that What? chants fucking suck, but Austin was in no way 'overrated.'
 
@Well Intentioned I just don't like how everyone puts him on the Mount Rushmore of wrestling. I would put him in my top 20 of all time but he's definitely not on my Mount Rushmore. That's what I mean by overrated, the way people mark the fuck out for him the way that the smarks do for CM Punk now.
There are literally people who say he's the best wrestler of all time, in my opinion that equates to overrated.
I will also remind you that I'm talking about when he was at the height of his popularity. Back before he was half a cripple his matches were fucking awesome. Before his nck got broke he had great matches.
 
Jake Roberts and The finger poke of Doom made sense from a storyline standpoint because it was friends telling the crowd to go fuck themselves. It got heat.
Vince McMahon being the higher power not only didn't make sense, it just proved that Vince has to find a way to make himself the center of attention in every storyline.
Wasn't it confirmed years later that the Higher Power was supposed to be Jake Roberts but Jake had relapsed hard and they kept stalling the reveal to try and find a replacement until they finally said "fuck it" and made it Vince?
 
People marked out for Austin because he just had that "it" factor and connected with the crowds, he was cool. The least important thing about wrestling will always be the actual wrestling.
 
People marked out for Austin because he just had that "it" factor and connected with the crowds, he was cool. The least important thing about wrestling will always be the actual wrestling.
If I'm not mistaken, it was a case of good timing as Stone Cold's anti-authority attitude is a foil to Vinnie Mac who was hated for screwing Bret. Put them together and you have an instant likeable face of WWE. No doubt, Austin stunning Vince was what the people wanted to see.
 
Wasn't it confirmed years later that the Higher Power was supposed to be Jake Roberts but Jake had relapsed hard and they kept stalling the reveal to try and find a replacement until they finally said "fuck it" and made it Vince?
Bruce Prichard has talked about who else was supposed to be the Higher Power and he never mentions Jake Roberts, but they did keep delaying the reveal because they couldn't find anybody who made sense at the time.

 
Bruce Prichard has talked about who else was supposed to be the Higher Power and he never mentions Jake Roberts, but they did keep delaying the reveal because they couldn't find anybody who made sense at the time.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=GHJZia_l_kI
Imagine if the Higher Power was the Ultimate Warrior and his reasons, he just rambles and talks about "Destrucsity" for 20 minutes.
 
It's really difficult to explain to someone how popular wrestling was in the latter part of 90's if they didn't live through it. It truly was something that was considered cool. I remember in elementary, every Monday after a ppv and every Tuesday after a Raw and Nitro, the topic of discussion was always wrestling. And it wasn't something you hid either, shit you even talked about it in front of the girls, and even some of them were into wrestling.

The arguments between ECW, WCW and WWF fans were intense in high school.
 
If I'm not mistaken, it was a case of good timing as Stone Cold's anti-authority attitude is a foil to Vinnie Mac who was hated for screwing Bret. Put them together and you have an instant likeable face of WWE. No doubt, Austin stunning Vince was what the people wanted to see.
Even before the feud with McMahon Austin was getting over like crazy (around the Summer of 1997) But the stuff with Tyson and the McMahon feud starting properly after WM XIV is what made him truly mainstream.
 
You're a brave man. Did his wife ever not look like a fridge?

View attachment 8575129
WWE Corporate: "Ok, Jim. We got this guy we think can become a big star in the near future but he needs to learn some basics. What can you do to make him a monster?
Cornette: I know! We'll have my wife manage him!
WWE Corporate: No, no Jim. We need HIM to look like a monster.

No wonder Dave didn't waste any time cucking Morrison with Melina to erase whatever horrors he had to witness in that hot tub.
 
It's really difficult to explain to someone how popular wrestling was in the latter part of 90's if they didn't live through it. It truly was something that was considered cool. I remember in elementary, every Monday after a ppv and every Tuesday after a Raw and Nitro, the topic of discussion was always wrestling. And it wasn't something you hid either, shit you even talked about it in front of the girls, and even some of them were into wrestling.
Just to add to this.

Half the kids in my class, myself included, knew who Stone Cold, the Rock and the Undertaker were.

That's despite the fact that IIRC the only wrestling here in my Eastern European shithole in the late 90s was an hour-long untranslated version of WCW Nitro and some of their PPVs, which were broadcast at 9PM just after Cartoon fucking Network stopped for the day. None of us spoke English at the time. Fuck if I know how we knew who they were.

And don't get me started on the nWo and Sting...
 
That's despite the fact that IIRC the only wrestling here in my Eastern European shithole in the late 90s was an hour-long untranslated version of WCW Nitro and some of their PPVs, which were broadcast at 9PM just after Cartoon fucking Network stopped for the day. None of us spoke English at the time. Fuck if I know how we knew who they were.
Asian Cartoon Network had that too
Too Much For An Ordinary Weekday
 
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