Bullet Club
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Itoh-chan!
General Wrestling Discussion
- Thread starter Frank Rizzo
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Looks like there's no restrictions on WWEID people wrestling AEW talent because Jack Cartwheel had a match against Nick Wayne last night. I'd imagine Jack can't show up on Dynamite or whatever but fair play to Hunter for not limiting these guys ability to make money in the indies.
Collision highlights included Julia Hart murdering herself with a bow and arrow and the motherfucking Outrunners going to the PPV baby!
Collision highlights included Julia Hart murdering herself with a bow and arrow and the motherfucking Outrunners going to the PPV baby!
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2017
For unaware, there's currently gofundme to help pay for Dutch Mantell's medical bills after he's been dealing with sepsis for the third time (the first two nearly killing him). It's nearly hit it's goal and wrestlers from different walks of life, from Jericho, to Cornette, to even Tony Khan have pitched in to help him out.
Naturally, I feel the need to undercut this heartwarming display of solidarity in the wrestling community by bringing up Meltzer's petty attempt to get one over on Dutch by snidely pointing out how two of the biggest donors where from Jericho and Khan, who Dutch is on record for criticizing in the past.
Naturally, I feel the need to undercut this heartwarming display of solidarity in the wrestling community by bringing up Meltzer's petty attempt to get one over on Dutch by snidely pointing out how two of the biggest donors where from Jericho and Khan, who Dutch is on record for criticizing in the past.
Franz Joseph
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Speaking of Goldust, to this day I will never get why Vince didn't pull the trigger on a Goldust/HBK feud during Micheals title run in 96. Goldust was at his peak during this time with his homosexual undertones and with the way the HBK character is you would figure putting them in a feud would be perfect.
PS1gamenwatch
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- Oct 26, 2015
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when Cornette has a moral leg up on you, you know you fucked up, Meltzer is an absolute autist
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2017
Dutch is one of those sorts that if you have beef with him, it speaks more about you than him. Cornette is a contentious asshole, so it makes sense that he'd be so polarizing. I've not heard one cross word about Dutch from anyone, at least not in regards to his character.
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2023
Dutch is the sweetest soul I've ever met from the wrestling business. A lot of personality and warmth. I've met Cornette too, and while I certainly think he was kind with his time, I also wouldn't want to get on his bad side. Dude can hold a grudge like no one else can.
ShitBomber
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- Dec 30, 2022
Alright so regarding what happened with Lucha Apocalypto (the MLW x CMLL cross promotional show), turns out they had some technical issues last night. It'll air tonight at 8 PM EST. Main event will be Mistico (formerly Sin Cara) vs. Averno vs. Titan.
Mellorine
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- Sep 17, 2015
I just wanted to relax and watch Botchamania 501 but was sent running back to the farms by the appearance of Jim Sterling in a dress.
https://youtu.be/dqVtHgQkIk0?si=y2FdMHapnpSMkGpz&t=177
https://youtu.be/dqVtHgQkIk0?si=y2FdMHapnpSMkGpz&t=177
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2013
Meltzer is such a piece of shit
ShitBomber
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- Dec 30, 2022
I honestly have a feeling that Meltzer is possibly going to descend into lolcowdom in the next year.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2013
He's pretty much already there, although not sure a thread is warranted since I don't think there'd be enough regular content
CyrusHowler
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- Oct 23, 2021
Cody Rhodes.
Fuwamoco’s favorite wrestler.
“HÆH??? Coby Whodes finished the Stowory? BAU BAU!!!!!!!”
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2017
Was Goldust ever World Champion material?
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2017
In terms of ring work? Fuck yes. In terms of the character? Absolutely not. I'll go on record and say that Goldust is one of the most overrated gimmicks in wrestling and it only was worth a damn in the 2000s when it became a comedy act.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2013
Not a chance. Goldust didn't have the charisma, look, promo ability or really anything other than in-ring work to be world champ.
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2017
I liked the Golden Truth... but to be fair, that was carried by Mr. Killings, as are most angles that involve him.
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2022
BookDust was good too
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2016
My thoughts on Dave, Bryan, and the Observer/F4W in general:
By all means, please feel free to tl;dr this, I had a wretched last few days and feel like spending some time writing something to take my mind off of it and this topic seems as good as any.
Pro wrestling was basically my entire life between 2007 and 2016, and I was a subscriber to the website continuously between 2007 and 2020.
Anyway... I was always a big defender of Dave back in the day. I know that he's always had his detractors, but I felt that he was genuinely a good reporter and that his reporting was almost always done in good faith. When something he reported didn't pan out, I always believed him when he said that "plans changed" because I was smart enough to know that when Vince was in charge, plans did indeed change. And with that said, his hit rate back in the day regarding backstage news/rumors, injury updates, and long term plans was legitimately good. During the period I was really paying attention to him (late 2000s to up to when AEW was coming together) I can't think of any major stories that he whiffed on. Maybe I'm misremembering, I don't know, but I did put all the stock I could into what he said. People have always ragged on him for his rambling and writing style, but I could tell from day one that he was somewhere on the spectrum so it never really bothered me.
AEW legitimately broke him. I gave him the benefit of the doubt for a while that he was treating them as objectively as he could, but it became clear once their ratings and attendance started to slide that that simply wasn't the case and that I was being a retard for thinking otherwise. I'm not one of those people who thinks he has a secret financial stake in the company, or that he is/was being paid off by Tony. What I DO think happened is that when AEW got off to a hot start, he felt vindicated after people pushed back and mocked him for years for gushing over Kenny, the Bucks, Okada, and really the modern Japanese style as a whole. For my money, people first began turning on Dave en masse when he started to hand out those six and seven start ratings to NJPW and NXT Black & Gold matches, and I think that still sticks in his craw. But here was a promotion that was built on that style and it was hot. From his perspective, he proved everyone wrong.
With that said, I think everyone agrees at this point that one of the big reasons AEW was hot out of the gate was because WWE was fucking historically terrible during that period and people were begging for ANY alternative they could get their hands on. I'm not saying that the early years of AEW were bad from a booking and storytelling standpoint, quite the opposite, actually, but another thing everyone with half a brain agrees on given the last couple years of AEW is that said match style DOES NOT draw in a vacuum absent competent booking. Dave either can't accept that or is too dense to realize it.
And his outlet for punching back is just ridiculous. It's not a coincidence he started spending a good chunk of his days picking fights with literal whos and trolls on Twitter around the same time AEW starting going down the toilet. It's such cringe behavior, especially from someone who insists to everyone that he is a world class journalist. Every time he links that article the New York Times did about him eleven or twelve years ago as a rebuttal to people questioning him I feel like punching a hole through my screen. There's very little that irritates me more than appeals to authority.
It's also clear that he's completely lost any connection to the WWE sources that he once had. It's probably a combination of both the TKO takeover and most of the guys he used to talk to aging out of the company, but for his sake, I hope he at least TRIED to cultivate relationships with some of the newer guys, if only because that's what his business is completely predicated on. At the end of the day, people were paying for the backstage news and rumors. The reviews and historical articles were just a bonus. I could only shake my head last week when that parody Twitter account said that Backlash was going to be held at the Tokyo Dome and ten minutes later Dave tweeted out the same thing. If that didn't demonstrate how far he's fallen, I don't know what does.
Bryan's downfall arguably hurts more. The early days of the B&V Show were fucking magical, man. Some of the best podcast stuff of all time. When they were just two angry single guys ranting about wrestling in Bryan's apartment... Goddamn that was good stuff. The songs, the drops, the penchant to just review whatever; movies, random wrestling shows, TV shows, or to just say fuck it and spend an hour ranting about their day. The Brent Kremen days. God, it was great.
Bryan clearly lost his edge when he got married and the show inexplicably changed in response. It kept going downhill once he had kids. I don't blame him for that, in fact it would probably be weird if it didn't change him, but as a fan it was disappointing. Vinny followed suit. It was still worth listening to for a while. But I went from someone who listened to every episode to someone who picked and choosed when they started putting the shows up on Vimeo (2017?) and they stopped playing songs and drops to avoid copyright strikes. That marked the point where I knew that the show that I loved no longer existed. It also corresponded with the show becoming increasingly formulaic and sterile. The spontaneity was gone. I occasionally watch the clips of current shows they put up on YouTube. It's fucking grim, man. It's so sterilized that I'm shocked that anyone pays to listen to it. Bryan seems to be completely checked out. I really think he has come to hate wrestling. I'd bet anything he wishes he could drop it all and move to Oregon.
My final straw came in 2020 when Dave started to have his "doctor friend" on the show to give updates on COVID and Vinny hung that BLM sign behind him. I was done.
And on that note, who IS paying for their shit anymore? 90% of the comments on their YouTube channel are people talking shit about Dave. The same thing for Dave's tweets. Bryan has actually locked his Twitter behind a paywall it got so bad. It clearly isn't people who are hate watching, either. They legitimately don't like him. Whether you agree it's fair or not, Dave's credibility is completely shattered, and Bryan's as well by association. Who would pay for access to him? If you want reviews, there's a dozen better free options out there.
I guess they're trying, though. By my count, there are five different subscriptions you could join to hear their shit.
Also, my beloved went viral this weekend (don't point out that it's clearly bots, it's still real to me dammit).
By all means, please feel free to tl;dr this, I had a wretched last few days and feel like spending some time writing something to take my mind off of it and this topic seems as good as any.
Pro wrestling was basically my entire life between 2007 and 2016, and I was a subscriber to the website continuously between 2007 and 2020.
My younger brother and I were WCW kids growing up, but we ended up quitting cold turkey after they were bought out. He started casually watching again at the tail end of the Ruthless Aggression era, and I sat down on the couch while he had Raw on as background noise one day in mid-2007 and immediately got hooked again (which is funny because that era of WWE was pretty objectively bad). I guess my enthusiasm drew him in too, because we became pretty hardcore fans not just of WWE, but of TNA, ROH, and various indies. When I say hardcore I mean we watched every TV episode, bought every PPV, traveled to every show within reasonable driving distance, and amassed a pretty big DVD collection. Most of my 20s were spent on 420chan's /wooo/. I'll forever be grateful to pro wrestling for bringing us together. He died suddenly and unexpectedly in 2009 and I'll always cherish those couple of years we spent together as best friends watching and going to shows.
After he died I doubled down on my fandom, maybe as a coping mechanism, I don't know. I made the pilgrimage to Mania 26 a few months after he died, Mania 27 (lol) after that and continued to attend every show I could and expanded into even more promotions as iPPV became a thing.
Of course I was subscribed to the Observer during that entire time because that's what you did as a terminally online smark. I listened to every episode of Bryan & Vinny and Observer Radio religiously. The latter was basically my Bible for a while.
My life more or less completely fell apart in 2016 and I decided to pretty much drop everything and move away to go back to school in early 2017. I also completely dropped watching wrestling at that time which wasn't hard because WWE was fucking horrendous during that time, and it was for all intents and purposes the only game in town. I stayed subscribed to the Observer site, mostly for B&V, as it was something to listen to pass the time. I gave AEW a shot when it started but didn't stick around long. I followed the CM Punk/AEW drama pretty closely. Cody spurred me to follow WWE during Mania season the last few years. The past year is the first time I've actually really sat down and watched wrestling regularly since 2016. I've become a pretty huge fan of joshi, which is all I watch at this point.
After he died I doubled down on my fandom, maybe as a coping mechanism, I don't know. I made the pilgrimage to Mania 26 a few months after he died, Mania 27 (lol) after that and continued to attend every show I could and expanded into even more promotions as iPPV became a thing.
Of course I was subscribed to the Observer during that entire time because that's what you did as a terminally online smark. I listened to every episode of Bryan & Vinny and Observer Radio religiously. The latter was basically my Bible for a while.
My life more or less completely fell apart in 2016 and I decided to pretty much drop everything and move away to go back to school in early 2017. I also completely dropped watching wrestling at that time which wasn't hard because WWE was fucking horrendous during that time, and it was for all intents and purposes the only game in town. I stayed subscribed to the Observer site, mostly for B&V, as it was something to listen to pass the time. I gave AEW a shot when it started but didn't stick around long. I followed the CM Punk/AEW drama pretty closely. Cody spurred me to follow WWE during Mania season the last few years. The past year is the first time I've actually really sat down and watched wrestling regularly since 2016. I've become a pretty huge fan of joshi, which is all I watch at this point.
Anyway... I was always a big defender of Dave back in the day. I know that he's always had his detractors, but I felt that he was genuinely a good reporter and that his reporting was almost always done in good faith. When something he reported didn't pan out, I always believed him when he said that "plans changed" because I was smart enough to know that when Vince was in charge, plans did indeed change. And with that said, his hit rate back in the day regarding backstage news/rumors, injury updates, and long term plans was legitimately good. During the period I was really paying attention to him (late 2000s to up to when AEW was coming together) I can't think of any major stories that he whiffed on. Maybe I'm misremembering, I don't know, but I did put all the stock I could into what he said. People have always ragged on him for his rambling and writing style, but I could tell from day one that he was somewhere on the spectrum so it never really bothered me.
AEW legitimately broke him. I gave him the benefit of the doubt for a while that he was treating them as objectively as he could, but it became clear once their ratings and attendance started to slide that that simply wasn't the case and that I was being a retard for thinking otherwise. I'm not one of those people who thinks he has a secret financial stake in the company, or that he is/was being paid off by Tony. What I DO think happened is that when AEW got off to a hot start, he felt vindicated after people pushed back and mocked him for years for gushing over Kenny, the Bucks, Okada, and really the modern Japanese style as a whole. For my money, people first began turning on Dave en masse when he started to hand out those six and seven start ratings to NJPW and NXT Black & Gold matches, and I think that still sticks in his craw. But here was a promotion that was built on that style and it was hot. From his perspective, he proved everyone wrong.
With that said, I think everyone agrees at this point that one of the big reasons AEW was hot out of the gate was because WWE was fucking historically terrible during that period and people were begging for ANY alternative they could get their hands on. I'm not saying that the early years of AEW were bad from a booking and storytelling standpoint, quite the opposite, actually, but another thing everyone with half a brain agrees on given the last couple years of AEW is that said match style DOES NOT draw in a vacuum absent competent booking. Dave either can't accept that or is too dense to realize it.
And his outlet for punching back is just ridiculous. It's not a coincidence he started spending a good chunk of his days picking fights with literal whos and trolls on Twitter around the same time AEW starting going down the toilet. It's such cringe behavior, especially from someone who insists to everyone that he is a world class journalist. Every time he links that article the New York Times did about him eleven or twelve years ago as a rebuttal to people questioning him I feel like punching a hole through my screen. There's very little that irritates me more than appeals to authority.
It's also clear that he's completely lost any connection to the WWE sources that he once had. It's probably a combination of both the TKO takeover and most of the guys he used to talk to aging out of the company, but for his sake, I hope he at least TRIED to cultivate relationships with some of the newer guys, if only because that's what his business is completely predicated on. At the end of the day, people were paying for the backstage news and rumors. The reviews and historical articles were just a bonus. I could only shake my head last week when that parody Twitter account said that Backlash was going to be held at the Tokyo Dome and ten minutes later Dave tweeted out the same thing. If that didn't demonstrate how far he's fallen, I don't know what does.
Bryan's downfall arguably hurts more. The early days of the B&V Show were fucking magical, man. Some of the best podcast stuff of all time. When they were just two angry single guys ranting about wrestling in Bryan's apartment... Goddamn that was good stuff. The songs, the drops, the penchant to just review whatever; movies, random wrestling shows, TV shows, or to just say fuck it and spend an hour ranting about their day. The Brent Kremen days. God, it was great.
Bryan clearly lost his edge when he got married and the show inexplicably changed in response. It kept going downhill once he had kids. I don't blame him for that, in fact it would probably be weird if it didn't change him, but as a fan it was disappointing. Vinny followed suit. It was still worth listening to for a while. But I went from someone who listened to every episode to someone who picked and choosed when they started putting the shows up on Vimeo (2017?) and they stopped playing songs and drops to avoid copyright strikes. That marked the point where I knew that the show that I loved no longer existed. It also corresponded with the show becoming increasingly formulaic and sterile. The spontaneity was gone. I occasionally watch the clips of current shows they put up on YouTube. It's fucking grim, man. It's so sterilized that I'm shocked that anyone pays to listen to it. Bryan seems to be completely checked out. I really think he has come to hate wrestling. I'd bet anything he wishes he could drop it all and move to Oregon.
My final straw came in 2020 when Dave started to have his "doctor friend" on the show to give updates on COVID and Vinny hung that BLM sign behind him. I was done.
And on that note, who IS paying for their shit anymore? 90% of the comments on their YouTube channel are people talking shit about Dave. The same thing for Dave's tweets. Bryan has actually locked his Twitter behind a paywall it got so bad. It clearly isn't people who are hate watching, either. They legitimately don't like him. Whether you agree it's fair or not, Dave's credibility is completely shattered, and Bryan's as well by association. Who would pay for access to him? If you want reviews, there's a dozen better free options out there.
I guess they're trying, though. By my count, there are five different subscriptions you could join to hear their shit.
- The website
- YouTube tier 1
- YouTube tier 2
- Twitch
- Bryan's twitter
Also, my beloved went viral this weekend (don't point out that it's clearly bots, it's still real to me dammit).
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