General Wrestling Discussion

[Buckaroo]

Wait, people that aren't Redditors actually like Raven?

 

[MirrorNoir]

Am I the only guy that can't stand R-Truth and the New Day? Whenever those niggers appear on TV I change the channel. R-Truth is so fucking cringe I can't stand to watch him.

R-Truth is great but New Day is trying hard cringe.

 

[JamFlowMan]

I have a theory. Jake Roberts convinced Tony to give him a lucha faction so they will gift him a lucha mask and he can pay one of the dumpy truck drivers $20 a show to put it on and handle all of his managing duties for the next year.

 

[Magic Sun Daddy]

Apparently one of their lowest live attendances as well. This was the go-home show for a PPV that i forgot was even happening despite the fact that i'd consider myself a fan of the promotion.

Everything is so predictable in AEW at the moment so it is hard to give a shit about the product week to week. They use such a narrow group of their huge roster on TV that it's possible to get 100% in a pick-em by just glancing at the match card before every show.

They need a hard reboot. The talent is there but TK doesn't really seem to have any ideas beyond having no-build "bangers for the sickos" every week and who gives a shit about that if you can tell who is going to win when the "dream match" is announced?

I'm half tempted to state this as proof that indie fed booking doesn't translate well to a national audience but I honestly think that Tony Khan's booking falls short even beyond what you'd expect from a forum addicted larper. ROH in its prime was awesome. NJPW under Gedo was great. TNA pre-Hogan and Eric was fun. AEW hasn't even been around for a decade and already they've managed to induce fatigue and apathy in their core audience.

 

[trent]

I'm half tempted to state this as proof that indie fed booking doesn't translate well to a national audience but I honestly think that Tony Khan's booking falls short even beyond what you'd expect from a forum addicted larper. ROH in its prime was awesome. NJPW under Gedo was great. TNA pre-Hogan and Eric was fun. AEW hasn't even been around for a decade and already they've managed to induce fatigue and apathy in their core audience.

TK had a worked out set of good solid storylines for the first 3ish years of AEW involving the guys who he started the company with and that was the best period for them. Even the pandemic era was great.

After that he managed to pick up a few great workers that WWE let go but didn't really have any plans for them other than putting them in random matches that he knew smarks like him wanted to see.

That's fine and all but don't be surprised if the general viewing public starts to lose interest in your live-action TEW save-game because you are booking probably the second biggest wrestling company in the world for a bunch of bingohall autists.

 

[Neighborhood Janny]

Am I the only guy that can't stand R-Truth and the New Day? Whenever those niggers appear on TV I change the channel. R-Truth is so fucking cringe I can't stand to watch him.

I like R-Truth, but I don't enjoy his gimmick. He was such a great character in TNA and had some great fucking matches. This thing he's got going for the last 10ish years as being a lovable dumbass is insulting. Not just to the audience, but mostly to him. I still mark for him though.

New Day has been cringe for a long time. I think Xavier is the best all around wrestler and has the ability, but he never gets the opportunity. If they drop Xavier away from Kofi and allow him to be a singles competitor, I can see him being a believable challenger for the US or IC titles. Could he be WHC or Universal champion? You'd have to strap a fuckton of rockets to his ass and get him from here to Mars, but I do think it could be compelling as an "upset" angle.

 

[Magic Sun Daddy]

TK had a worked out set of good solid storylines for the first 3ish years of AEW involving the guys who he started the company with and that was the best period for them. Even the pandemic era was great.

After that he managed to pick up a few great workers that WWE let go but didn't really have any plans for them other than putting them in random matches that he knew smarks like him wanted to see.

That's fine and all but don't be surprised if the general viewing public starts to lose interest in your live-action TEW save-game because you are booking probably the second biggest wrestling company in the world for a bunch of bingohall autists.

It doesn't help that he's done such a shit job to building his company around his supposed "Four Pillars." Jungle Boy's playing mini-Moxley, Darby has been cemented as the permanent bridr's maid/sidekick, Sammy Guevarra is as over as room temperature Dasani, and MJF's market value has plummeted significantly. Mox, Omega, and Osprey are the three biggest stars in the company. One is a dumbfuck egomaniac obsessed with looking like the toughest man in the room, one is out with a debilitating illness, and one is... well, Osprey hasn't been devalued yet.

 

[crunchy bits are the best]

???

I had to actually go verify these figures, I thought you hit the 3 instead of 6 on your keyboard. Holy fuck that is terrible. What a gutter tier product.

And the hardcore AEW tribal-men will tell people once again that "ItS nOt AbOuT dA rAtInGs, AAAAAAAA!!!!oneone"

 

[OJ Simpson]

And the hardcore AEW tribal-men will tell people once again that "ItS nOt AbOuT dA rAtInGs, AAAAAAAA!!!!oneone"

It was all about ratings and beating RAW, until it wasn't. But it was a Tuesday, I'm sure there was some super important television show going on too that stole all of their viewers away, and it's just a one off and they'll be back to 700k next week, ignoring the fact that at this time last year it was a one off if the numbers dropped below 900k. All is good in Delusionland and we should stop pointing out that the decline is indistinguishable from ubisoft shares because warner brothers execs got hoodwinked. There's always an excuse.

 

[ForgedBlades]

I don't really know how you turn it around at this point either. There's nobody left they could sign and debut to shake things up, and if there were they'd undoubtedly fumble it. At this point you almost have to take the book away from Tony, but who do you conceivably give it to?

 

[Magic Sun Daddy]

I don't really know how you turn it around at this point either. There's nobody left they could sign and debut to shake things up, and if there were they'd undoubtedly fumble it. At this point you almost have to take the book away from Tony, but who do you conceivably give it to?

I would nominate Jarrett but I think anyone taking the helm will get whiplash from the sheer amount of resources afforded to them. Keep in mind, the only reason that AEW can get away decreasing returns is the fact that they're being funded by the Iron Sheik's long lost billionaire brother. In terms of raw resources, they are literally the only wrestling company in the world that has the potential to compete with WWE when it comes production values. It becomes all the more infuriating when you think about all of the bookers who put together the shows that Tony Khan loves so much, and how much they'd kill to have one tenth of AEW's budget.

 

[Anchors-Away]

It's more than just the book, it's just about everything Tony has failed to do with what he has.

Before Khan was able to take whatever WWE reject or NJPW fossil he liked, Tony was made to work with a very limited pool. Prior to the formation of AEW, WWE had bled the indies for 205 live and the NXT expansion, atop of the giant cancelation wave that hit the European indie scene. Those with EVP status at the formation of the company clearly had goals too. Omega had his personal project to elevate Hangman (which you can see me bitch about via my post history) as the face of the product and aid the Women's division. The Bucks focused in on Scorpio Sky and "putting over" talent via fluke roll ups. Whereas both Cody and Jericho had isolated bubbles that featured a variety of different acts, for better or worse. All Tony had to do was look at the rest of the card and fill in the blanks.

And just as momentum was going AEW's way, the pandemic hits.

Hangman is refusing to work for a variety of reasons, making Tony reshuffle plans. We get a fantastic Omega / Christian feud. Miro has stopped being a gamer and found God. The Lucha Bros aren't phoning it in yet. FTR just jumped ship. The Jericho vortex hasn't lost it's lustre with a great arena brawl clash with the Pinnacle. Plus with the pandemic having spooked so much of the mid-card, a ton of young guys are stepping up and working as late as 3am to wrestle a DARK match for less than 10mins. Surely with such displays of loyalty, these acts have moved up the card in the past three years? No.

Powerhouse Hobbs, who was hired by the suggestion of Taz, was working as QT's heater just under a year ago and is now playing forth fiddle to Lance Archer and Trent in fucking the Callis Family. Ricky Starks who is now sat at home waiting for his contract to expire, having last been seen almost a year ago teaming with Big Bill. Sammy is cosplaying as Cody on ROH and got injured by that shitter Serpentico (he's the reason Nyla Rose has a job, fuck him) the other week. Darby Allin, the closest of the lot to find a path of success was basically placed into a holding position for two years with Sting. Jungle Boy's rise is clearly manufactured out of spite for Punk. Preston Vance? Alan Angels? Lee Johnson? Varsity Blondes? Wardlow? Private Party? Top Flight? Anna Jay? Tay Melo? So many of these names have gone nowhere in AEW or fled to greener pastures. The Acclaimed may legitimately be the only consistently protected pandemic era hire.

And even if you consider most of those young acts shit, not worth the time investment etc. Fine, you are welcome to that. What about the so-called "big acts" that should have been pushed in that timeframe? Lucha Bros constantly had stop-start momentum, often dumped into throwaway feuds. PAC clearly threatened status quo when not injured. Best Friends spent more time trying to get Yuta and his TJ Maxx sneaker wearing ass over. Brain Cage? Lol. Malaki Black's creative control ensured you never saw him on TV if he had to lose, with Miro later following in his footsteps. Even MJF runs off every other month.

Since the pandemic ended, touring returned and we've far removed ourselves from the crowning of Hangman, it's only got worse. Tony has bloated the roster to the point that I cannot remember when Los Ingobernables debut. How many times has Jay White changed from face to heel? Are the Undisputed Kingdom actually a thing still? Remember Aussie Open? Look, it's the Grizzled Young Vets. People totally care about them right? Oh hey it's our bi-monthly reminder that John Morrison and Taya are still hired! So many of these names are apparent "gets" for AEW and yet they fumble around on the card just as poorly as the people who built this company. Ricochet is just another toy for the pile until Tony can get something slighter newer.

Doing a "brand split" wouldn't fix the booking as evident with ROH. A soft-reset would require Tony to remember he has to care longer than two weeks to build up some of these names to lead the new era of AEW. A hard reset isn't achievable either when so many of your hires have clear ego issues post WWE and been awarded creative control. Firing the bloat like WWE would put in hot water with the smark redditors who eat up his bullshit. This is a deep rooted issue that time requires to heal, but Tony is much like the fans and those who consume the product. They don't got time or patience. That want instant gratification. Now.

 

[BrunoMattei]

Speaking of Mortis, the WWE Vault YouTube page is doing the lords work of late, recently uploading Mortis dark matches in WWE.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Fs4K4IRFFZU

Kanyon would have made an excellent tag partner with Kane. Just need a 3rd guy, maybe a manager, with a name that starts with K and there ya' go, new faction with a name that will be remembered.

 

[trent]

I don't really know how you turn it around at this point either. There's nobody left they could sign and debut to shake things up, and if there were they'd undoubtedly fumble it. At this point you almost have to take the book away from Tony, but who do you conceivably give it to?

It isn't about signing new people at this stage.

It's about properly using the huge roster he has now and their connections to other companies to book a product that isn't predictable as fuck because you've narrowed your scope so much that every single match is a forgone conclusion.

The stop-start nature of his booking doesn't help either. People start to get pushed and then just sort of get forgotten about after a few weeks so the audience is trained to not get behind midcard talent because it will always lead to nothing. There's no point in being a fan of a wrestler if you rarely get to see them wrestle. It's mind-boggling that he can't give pretty much every hot act at least 10 minutes to work with every other week with 5 hours of TV to fill along with RoH and a ppv every month-ish.

People shouldn't just disappear from your product if they are currently able to work.

 

[CyrusHowler]

I have a feeling Gunther will carry the match and go over.

Go over? Maybe.
Carry? Cody doesn’t need to be carried lmao.

 

[trent]

Edge has been using his time off from AEW to volunteer for FEMA to dig bodies out of hurricane wreckage in North Carolina.

I always considered him as just sort of a goofy dude who happened to be a wrestler but that's honestly a really good thing to do.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

Those AEW ratings were just brutal

I'd imagine next week it'll go up a good amount, but not near what it was before, and the cycle of their viewership #s declining will continue

 

[trent]

Those AEW ratings were just brutal

I'd imagine next week it'll go up a good amount, but not near what it was before, and the cycle of their viewership #s declining will continue

The in ring product is probably some of the best wrestling in the world at the moment but the booking is just utter shite. It's crazy that someone can't get in TKs ear and get him to course-correct before the company is only pulling 200-300k viewers a week.

I like Danielson but the World Title is essentially meaningless for the next while with him holding it because i feel like he wants Omega to be his last match and Kenny is only now back training and seems to be teasing a Golden Lovers reunion which means it could be this time next year before he's well enough to consider a full return to singles stuff.

You can't just put your top division on ice like that and have PPV after PPV of guys you've built up as challengers losing time after time. WWE got stale when Brock, Cena and Roman buried people in this manner a few years ago and that's what made AEW a viable thing in the first place yet they are doing the same thing now.

 

[cypocryphy]

Kanyon would have made an excellent tag partner with Kane. Just need a 3rd guy, maybe a manager, with a name that starts with K and there ya' go, new faction with a name that will be remembered.

At that time it could have been Kidman as the third white man.

 

[Magic Sun Daddy]

I like Danielson but the World Title is essentially meaningless for the next while with him holding it because i feel like he wants Omega to be his last match and Kenny is only now back training and seems to be teasing a Golden Lovers reunion which means it could be this time next year before he's well enough to consider a full return to singles stuff.

I really wish they would get a handle on their main event talent and their schedules, because it's really hard to get invested in talent when you never know when they'll dip without a storyline explanation. Seriously, when was the last time anyone has been written off television on an injury angle?