General Wrestling Discussion

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I've been downloading a bunch of ECW 90s era CAWs for WWE 2k24. I've also decided to refamiliarize myself with that era of ECW. Sooo... I gave the FOREVER HARDCORE ECW documentary a watch. I had to laugh. Near the beginning, they are talking about Eddie Gilbert as a booker (He booked ECW when they were still Eastern Championship Wrestling) and some (((pimply faced wrestling journo))) appears to trash what Gilbert was doing. Paraphrasing... "ECW was not a good product when Eddie was booking. He was booking it like a southern wrestling fed"... something along those lines. Ok, but what the fuck did these simpletons think they were watching when Heyman took over?!? Heyman booked it exactly like a southern rasslin promotion. The basic difference was Gilbert reused specific memphis gimmicks, whereas Heyman used a southern rasslin booking style, but with a northeast attitude and talent.

Of course, the main difference was the in ring talent. Old southern rasslin had professionals who knew what they were doing, and ECW, with several notable exceptions, had a bunch of indie shitters, botch machines and guys who couldn't make it anywhere else. I watched alot of that shit, as it happened, and to this day, I fail to grasp why ECW is held in such high regard. It had it's moments, for sure, but there was lots and lots of garbage in the mix. Philadelphians are literal retards, lol.
Well said. I tracked down all the very first Eastern Championship Wrestling shows a few years back and the funky booking really wasn't all that removed from the weird quirks of Heyman's booking. Their first show even had a banger of an Eddie Gilbert versus Terry Funk gimmick match (IIRC it was I Quit, Funk's selling post-match was phenomenal) and Sandman was even wrestling (albeit in a surfer bro gimmick, but he was hitting real wrestling moves).

I assume you're talking about David Bixenspan who's an absolute sperg lolcow loser best known for needing to use two hands to drink apple juice in the Hulk Hogan vs. Gawker documentary on Netflix. He's literally insane and alluded for years that he had blackmail dirt on Dave Meltzer (when I finally got a chance to ask Meltz about it, he had no fucking clue what Bix was talking about).

There's a lot of misconceptions about the pre-Extreme iteration of ECW that gets spread around because it makes for a better story.
 
There's a lot of misconceptions about the pre-Extreme iteration of ECW that gets spread around because it makes for a better story.
there's a lot of misconceptions about the Extreme iteration, too
I remember back in the day /wooo/tube was watching a week or two of ECW tv each week before... I forget, luchatube, maybe
and it was really funny to see people realize THE LEGENDARY EXTREME PROMOTION ECW and actual weekly ECW tv were worlds apart
 
/wooo/tube
Damn that takes me back. I miss the days of them interrupting the stream just to play the Bromans Selfies music video.

JESSE THO, JESSE THO, JESSE THO

it was really funny to see people realize THE LEGENDARY EXTREME PROMOTION ECW and actual weekly ECW tv were worlds apart
Yeah, when you parse it all down to Taz vs Bam Bam Bigelow and Beulah vs Bill Alfonso and Rob Van Dam vs Jerry Lynn, you get a very skewed picture compared to Danny Doring and Roadkill vs the weaker members of the FBI in matches without any actual finish.
 
Damn that takes me back. I miss the days of them interrupting the stream just to play the Bromans Selfies music video.

JESSE THO, JESSE THO, JESSE THO


Yeah, when you parse it all down to Taz vs Bam Bam Bigelow and Beulah vs Bill Alfonso and Rob Van Dam vs Jerry Lynn, you get a very skewed picture compared to Danny Doring and Roadkill vs the weaker members of the FBI in matches without any actual finish.
actual finish?
hell, I'm pretty sure there were some eps without an actual _match_ lol
 
I think people just think of ECW as Raven's two cycling feuds (vs Dreamer, and vs Sandman, which had the crucifixion thing that pissed of Kurt Angle) the Dudley Family drama (Devon was originally a heel that fought the rest of the family. I don't remember the details, but I think Bubba turned on the rest and from then on it was just the two of them) Stone Cold being there for a cup of coffee, and every single New Jack shitshow after his SMW run.

Everything else kind of blends together.
 
I think people just think of ECW as Raven's two cycling feuds (vs Dreamer, and vs Sandman, which had the crucifixion thing that pissed of Kurt Angle) the Dudley Family drama (Devon was originally a heel that fought the rest of the family. I don't remember the details, but I think Bubba turned on the rest and from then on it was just the two of them) Stone Cold being there for a cup of coffee, and every single New Jack shitshow after his SMW run.

Everything else kind of blends together.
there's ads for the new merch, ads for the replays of last ppv, ads for the latest ppv now on home video, and music videos (featuring the last ppv, the latest ppv now on home video, and new merch)

it bugs me more than it should that they're claiming how suzie soandso is the first mma person to join wwe
 
I think people just think of ECW as Raven's two cycling feuds (vs Dreamer, and vs Sandman, which had the crucifixion thing that pissed of Kurt Angle) the Dudley Family drama (Devon was originally a heel that fought the rest of the family. I don't remember the details, but I think Bubba turned on the rest and from then on it was just the two of them) Stone Cold being there for a cup of coffee, and every single New Jack shitshow after his SMW run.

Everything else kind of blends together.
You also can include Shane Douglas being the top heel along with the luchadores, Benoit, Malenko, Guerrero, and Jericho getting exposed to American audiences.
 
Shane Douglas being the top heel
Ah yes, who could forget that time he threw a belt at the ground, and then broke his arm for approximately 7 years. All-time classic top heel. Move over Roman Reigns, the FRANCHISE is here.

I know that wasn't your point, but it's always funny how shitty his run as top heel was in retrospect.
 
there's a lot of misconceptions about the Extreme iteration, too
I remember back in the day /wooo/tube was watching a week or two of ECW tv each week before... I forget, luchatube, maybe
and it was really funny to see people realize THE LEGENDARY EXTREME PROMOTION ECW and actual weekly ECW tv were worlds apart
If you only watched Hardcore TV, you'd think ECW had the greatest in ring action ever, however In 1997 I bought 3 or 4 ECW VHS tapes at a kiosk at a local mall (they had assorted other rasslin merch and Japanese garbage wrestling tapes as well) and boy that was an eye opener. Seeing full, or mostly full, unedited cards with Sabu and The Eliminators botching their way thru matches, garbage wrestling with the Rotten brothers, Balls Mahoney and New Jack... whew, night and day difference.

Yeah, when you parse it all down to Taz vs Bam Bam Bigelow and Beulah vs Bill Alfonso and Rob Van Dam vs Jerry Lynn, you get a very skewed picture compared to Danny Doring and Roadkill vs the weaker members of the FBI in matches without any actual finish.
To a previous comment you made that I cannot quote...it was Gabe Sapolsky. As it turns out, he was part of the ECW front office and works for/worked for WWE, which makes his comments regarding Gilbert even more ignorant.
Gotta give some credit to Heyman for editing this indie crapfest to look like the most amazing wrestling that ever existed.

there's ads for the new merch, ads for the replays of last ppv, ads for the latest ppv now on home video, and music videos (featuring the last ppv, the latest ppv now on home video, and new merch)
And before the PPVs it was the tapes... "See the night Kimona Wannalaya danced atop the ECW arena!!" every fucking ad break, lol.
Ah yes, who could forget that time he threw a belt at the ground, and then broke his arm for approximately 7 years. All-time classic top heel. Move over Roman Reigns, the FRANCHISE is here.

I know that wasn't your point, but it's always funny how shitty his run as top heel was in retrospect.
I actually liked Shane thru 1997. His match with Pitbull #2 (which had a great build, with nuclear heat) was a farce. Naturally, Shane blames it on Pitbull, saying he got nervous due to being on PPV and froze... Hey Shane, you fancy yourself a modern day Ric Flair, then switch it up. The crowd was absolutely mild for that one considering the great heat and buildup to it.
After that match, Shane lost his steam, got injured, stayed injured and seemed to mostly meander on at that point. After that, until he lost the ECW title, the most memorable thing he did (that I can remember) was his match with Al Snow, and not in a good way. Shane was seriously banged up (jacked up arm, fractured palate, and according to him, geeked to the gills on pain killers. The match was OK, but the lockerroom emptying and holding both of these guys up in the ring like they just had the match of the century was very, very lame.

As to my thoughts of other members of the roster...anyone who was good, didn't stay there too long. Unlike most others, I wasn't terribly impressed with the Guererro/Malenko spotfests. Seen one, seen em all.
Public Enemy-seriously???... get the fuck outta here.
New Jack-great promo, but a legit psychotic who should never had been allowed inside a wrestling ring after the Mass Transit incident.
Meanie and Richards-good comedy heels, and they could wrestle.
Raven- I really wasn't down with the whole emo "Grunge" thing, but he was good.
Tommy Dreamer- I fuckin hated this guy. Innovator Of Violence my ass. He was over because of his hot girlfriend (Beulah McGillicutty). Otherwise, he was little more than a glorified jobber whose job it was to take the worst legit beating his opponents could dish out.
Justin Credible-Great job asshole, you're the guy that made me quit watching ECW. Congrats, lol.
Rob Van Dam-Great look, incredibly athletic, plus he had the whole "dude weed lmao" thing going, but he had the most incredibly dumb finisher ever. Yeah, just hold that chair in place so I can kick it into your face. C'mon man...

That's about all I can think of for now, lol.
 
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Long ass quote post. And for what it's worth, I don't think Owen was unsafe in any way and I trust the stories of him not calling Austin after the piledriver because he was too ashamed and guilt ridden to do so. This a man who came from the most famous rasslin family this side of the Von Erichs, renowned for how safe they were, who accidentally almost ended the career/life of the hottest act since Hogan. I'd be shit scared of trying to apologize too. Is it shitty he didn't even attempt? BRUNOYEAHSURE.GIF but what the fuck can you even say? "Hey man, sorry I almost killed you. You were right we shouldn't have done that spot"? There's nothing you can say. And considering Steve is still salty over how the Jarrett's treated him early in his career, I doubt Owen saying sorry would have mattered in the long run.
Never give that guy a mic. He couldn’t cut a promo to save his life. Thankfully Shawn Michaels was there to carry their feuds in that regard in the 90s.
Bret was only good on the mic as a heel. Bret as a Baby was fucking awful. The epitome of bland. As the saying goes, the best characters are the person simply turned up to 11 and Bret was always better as a heel. Gee, wonder why.
There's something about Brett that I also see in CM Punk whenever they shoot. It's like the pair of them have the same exact ego disease, but I can't identify it exactly.
They both think they're God's gift to the, fake, sport. Simple as. Except with Bret, he's actually Godly in the ring while Punk does his best to pretend he's some martial arts expert despite throwing faker strikes than Hogan with less impact than an 8 year olds karate class. Punk has the edge on the mic, Baby or Heel, and overall more competent opponents. That's it. Even then Punk never once gave anyone thir best matches. If anything he was the one made to look better than he really was. *insert Cena piledriver clip. Something that ultimately paints John in a better light than Punk for being willing to take it and deal with whatever shit came from it*.
I’m just really glad someone else noticed this and called it out. My YouTube recommendations also get flooded with this stuff, especially Bret, and I really didn’t think much of it. How many times does someone need to be interviewed and asked the same questions if it wasn’t doing something for them?
We aren't the only ones to notice it. It's just that this forum is the only legitimate place for honest discussion on any topic that won't get your buried™️ in downvotes. You can even find youtube threads of people noticing Brets penchant for endless bitterness towards shit everyone else has moved on from despite these others being the guys who've been shit on for the last 30 years. And it'll take as many times as needed until the checks stop coming. As long as there's a mark willing to pay the fee, Bret will happily talk about how much of a shitbag Shawn was and how he Shoryukened Vince 50' in the air while getting blown by 27 ring rats as the boys fingered his asshole and told him he's the Excellence of Execution.
Bret just gets off on his own misery at this point.
Tale as old as the Shitman himself.
He was in his fucking 40's and going nowhere fast in WCW.
Bret was checked out from the very second he stepped into WCW. And you can fucking tell. Honestly I think his real bitterness lies in how awful his final run was. He didn't give a single shit about WCW. He's a WWE/WWF guy through and through. So ending his career in WCW obviously chapped his denim clad ass cheeks. He was told that WCW wouldn't know how to use the Hitman character by basically everyone who cared to talk to him and they were right. And he hates that. Also regarding his age, you could also stretch his bitterness to the fact he want half as good at 40 as Flair was in his 60s. Turns out that wanting guys to hit you as hard as possible for the "realness" and slamming yourself sternum first into the turnbuckle isn't conducive to longevity in the ring. Go figure.
I never believed him and I always painted Bret as this squeaky clean character that was above all sort of fault.
I used to think this way too, until I read his book where he talked about his juicing and infidelity. The Canadian Bacon Nigger was doing rounds and cheating on his wife like literally every other faggot in the biz, but somehow he's totally different and better because he rassled gud.
Vince would've find someone who would and Bret will still be salty.
100%. Even if they did the Undertaker option Bret would whined that he dropped the belt to a guy who's gimmick was no selling who didn't need to wrestle hard to get over. There was literally no other option by that point that wouldn't have caused Bret to endlessly cope and seethe.
bitch every time on how Owen almost killed
One of the funniest fucking things imo. Austin did the exact same tombstone variation on Chono and broke his neck, then ends up having the exact same thing happen to him. But Owen is the bad guy. If Austin was truly that against it, and didn't trust the man who was unanimously considered one of the safest guys in the biz, it wouldn't have happened. It was an unfortunate accident and nothing more. Wasn't a failure on either man. Just the result of poor decision making and being so far into the match when both guys were tired and sweaty. Shit happens. It ain't ballet.
Punk has always been shit on the ring.
500%. Dudes best matches were with John Cena and fucking Jeff Hardy. Two dudes endlessly shit on for their actual ring work were the one who put Punk on the map. Funny innit?
Why people still believe what that old fart says I'll never know
Sunk cost fallacy. Nothing more.
He also needs to get the fuck over Montreal.

Yeah, he got screwed, but so what? He was leaving WWF to go and make an extra million a year in WCW, so why the fuck does he care that he's going to lose a fake title to HBK? Yes, HBK was an asshole, but who cares? He's going to be leaving him and never have to see him again and he'd be making almost 3x what HBK is making. I don't blame Vince McMahon one bit for the screwjob.
Montreal is the Shitman's golden goose. Without The Screw Job, Bret would have simply been yet another WWF guy who went to WCW and did fuck all of note until he retired or came back, while being overshadowed by guys who were 5x as charismatic just like when he was in WWF. Hell they even made the Screw Job a big thing leading up to Brets eventual debut, only to immediately waste all the heat. In classic LOLWCW fashion.
And honestly, Bret can say whatever the fuck he wants about Shawn's professionalism, or lack of, and his character as a human being at the time, but the simple fact is that Bret came from a family that treated this fake sport as a life or death, super serious business, while Shawn set out to entertain. Like a Hogan or Flair. And look how that ended.

That's what burns Bret's Canadian Bacon most. The dude he had the least amount of respect for personally and professionally outlasted him by 2+ decades despite breaking his back and taking just as many brutal headshots, all while putting on classic after classic.
 
Y'know, signing each and every Samoan purely because they're Samoan or related to "the Bloodline" doesn't do anything to get anyone over. It waters them down; it rings in everyone's heads that they're not being hired based on merits, but because they're Samoan.

It's about as stupid as when the WWE was obsessed with signing former NFL stars.
 
Ah yes, who could forget that time he threw a belt at the ground, and then broke his arm for approximately 7 years. All-time classic top heel. Move over Roman Reigns, the FRANCHISE is here.

I know that wasn't your point, but it's always funny how shitty his run as top heel was in retrospect.
Shane Douglas will always be remembered for two things, that one promo he did in ECW, and bitching about how the Kliq buried him in the WWF in every shoot interview he's ever done.
 
Y'know, signing each and every Samoan purely because they're Samoan or related to "the Bloodline" doesn't do anything to get anyone over. It waters them down; it rings in everyone's heads that they're not being hired based on merits, but because they're Samoan.

It's about as stupid as when the WWE was obsessed with signing former NFL stars.
Modern NWO.
 
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