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Yuuichirou Kumada said:
"Dave Meltzer says" is an instant disqualifier for any argument whatsoever.
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The SCJerk subreddit has had a guy doing 30 days of Dave Meltzer being senile and it's been some pretty amusing shit. My favorite was the one where Meltzer 'reported' that they had removed Shibata's brain during surgery and then 'put it back in.'

I used to think that Meltzer was largely unjustly shit on by folks who didn't understand what he said wasn't the gospel truth, but just shit he's heard. But between him being borderline illiterate (seriously, how has this guy managed to run a NEWSLETTER for decades and not improve his craft at all?) and just sporting a hard-on for whatever flavor of the month, he's a fucking idiot.

Never really gave a shit about his snowflake system, either, and found it really strange that it was venerated as True and Objective reviews of matches. The difference between him and an actual critic like Roger Ebert is that Meltzer lacks a complete understanding of the medium he's critiquing, which leaves him unable to articulate things beyond tossing out snowflakes.
 
Hatoful Dandy said:
The Hulkster started that one I think.
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Rick The Stick said:
I'm getting tired of seeing "BRET HART SHOOTS ON" in my youtube feed. I can't escape it.

Cool dude, you hated the Sunny Day's promo, even though you were cheating on your wife with every woman you could find during that time.

Yeah yeah, Goldberg kicked your head off. Was it also Goldberg's fault you did a hardcore match afterwards where you took bumps on concrete and headshots?

We get it, you're a tough guy cause Stu abused stretched you while screaming in your ear "YOUVE BREATHED YOUR LAST BREATH" and you took a perverse delight in fighting kids who made fun of your fake fighting family, tore shawns hair out, and punched vince after being given a free shot.

It just never ends. I love Bret. I'm a Hitman mark like literally every rasslin fan who isn't a retard, though not as much of a mark for him as he himself is. He's given people the best matches they ever had in their careers and could carry absolute train wrecks like a cracked out Bulldog to a genuinely legendary match. But holy shit dude. FilthyFrankItsTimeToStop.mp4
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He also needs to get the fuck over Montreal.

Yeah, he got screwed, but so what? He was leaving WWF to go and make an extra million a year in WCW, so why the fuck does he care that he's going to lose a fake title to HBK? Yes, HBK was an asshole, but who cares? He's going to be leaving him and never have to see him again and he'd be making almost 3x what HBK is making. I don't blame Vince McMahon one bit for the screwjob.
 
Well Intentioned said:
Never really gave a shit about his snowflake system, either, and found it really strange that it was venerated as True and Objective reviews of matches. The difference between him and an actual critic like Roger Ebert is that Meltzer lacks a complete understanding of the medium he's critiquing, which leaves him unable to articulate things beyond tossing out snowflakes.
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It's the Michelin Effect. What does a tire company know about fine dining? Absolutely nothing yet chefs will kill themselves for their ratings. What does Meltzer know about wrestling? Absolutely nothing etc.
 
Rick The Stick said:
Yeah yeah, Goldberg kicked your head off. Was it also Goldberg's fault you did a hardcore match afterwards where you took bumps on concrete and headshots?
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If Honky Tonk Man is to be believed, Bret was such a mark that he did not like wrestlers (such as Honky Tonk) who did not hit him hard enough. Turns out Goldberg was more than capable of hitting him (too) hard enough:
 
Hollywood Hulk Hogan said:
He also needs to get the fuck over Montreal.
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I agree on this. If anything, it helped solidify his legacy and his perception as a "Canadian hero" (which I feel was incredibly overblown by Bret -- Jacques Rougeau was a 'local hero' in Quebec and got a win over Hulk Hogan but, uh, perspective, lmao.)

Hollywood Hulk Hogan said:
Yeah, he got screwed, but so what? He was leaving WWF to go and make an extra million a year in WCW, so why the fuck does he care that he's going to lose a fake title to HBK? Yes, HBK was an asshole, but who cares? He's going to be leaving him and never have to see him again and he'd be making almost 3x what HBK is making. I don't blame Vince McMahon one bit for the screwjob.
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I do blame Vince, simply because all of the problems leading up to it were of his own creation.

He gave Bret a creative control clause (which Bret proposed numerous alternatives, that included losing to Shawn), he was the one who asked Bret to break the "lifetime" contract, and he encouraged the bad blood between Bret and Shawn.

Even with accounting for Bret being a world-class huffer of his own farts, I can't fault him for sticking up for himself or wanting to protect himself (given how Vince could/would humiliate guys.)
 
Well Intentioned said:
I do blame Vince, simply because all of the problems leading up to it were of his own creation.

He gave Bret a creative control clause (which Bret proposed numerous alternatives, that included losing to Shawn), he was the one who asked Bret to break the "lifetime" contract, and he encouraged the bad blood between Bret and Shawn.

Even with accounting for Bret being a world-class huffer of his own farts, I can't fault him for sticking up for himself or wanting to protect himself (given how Vince could/would humiliate guys.)
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I do agree that Vince 100% should've thought to take the belt off of Bret before he was going to offer to break the contract to Bret.

Cornette's take on it seems pretty right imo, in that it was a giant clusterfuck and there were no good guys in the situation. HBK was an asshole who deserved all of the hate he was getting from Bret, but at least he was their asshole. Vince should've thought to take the damn belt off of Bret first. Bret was taking himself way too damn seriously and was going to be making a ton of money so why does he care?
 
COME ON OUT YOU RAPIST said:
It's the Michelin Effect. What does a tire company know about fine dining? Absolutely nothing yet chefs will kill themselves for their ratings. What does Meltzer know about wrestling? Absolutely nothing etc.
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I could be completely wrong about this, but my understanding is that Michelin has criteria that aspiring restaurants need to adhere to and there's a general sense of what does/doesn't fall under a 'Michelin restaurant.'

Whereas with Meltzer, his 'rating system' seems to be based on his whims and whoever is writing him cheques.
 
I feel bad for Bryan Alvarez. He has to sit there while Dave stutters over him with inane ramblings and he can barely get a word in. Even when he fights back against Dave's piss poor takes, people in their comments are always saying "I can't believe Dave and Bryan both think this!" He has to format the show, he only gets to be friends with Lance Storm, and even his own grandmother has more dedicated fans.

Poor Chico.
 
ShitBomber said:
yep. Meltzer is pretty much a lolcow in the wrestling business considering his shitty reporting. Seriously wonder why he hasn't been sued for spreading blatant misinformation.
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The best was the whole "Saudi hostage situation". Yes, the Saudi government took a bunch of wrestlers, who work for a company that (at the time) was owned by someone on the (then) president of the United State's cabinet, and no one knew about it except some random dirt sheet reporter. Somehow a bunch of marks and Meltzer himself still keep claiming it, too.
 
Harm said:
I feel bad for Bryan Alvarez. He has to sit there while Dave stutters over him with inane ramblings and he can barely get a word in. Even when he fights back against Dave's piss poor takes, people in their comments are always saying "I can't believe Dave and Bryan both think this!" He has to format the show, he only gets to be friends with Lance Storm, and even his own grandmother has more dedicated fans.

Poor Chico.
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At this point, I just assume that Alvarez just opens a game of Minesweeper or Solitaire, or something equally quick, whenever Dave starts going off. He knows he’s likely never going to get a word in, but the smarks pay money for Dave, so he’s stuck playing Tard Wrangler, and has honestly given up playing Tard Wrangler.
 
Hollywood Hulk Hogan said:
The best was the whole "Saudi hostage situation". Yes, the Saudi government took a bunch of wrestlers, who work for a company that (at the time) was owned by someone on the (then) president of the United State's cabinet, and no one knew about it except some random dirt sheet reporter. Somehow a bunch of marks and Meltzer himself still keep claiming it, too.
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Agreed. Though there were multiple claims from firsthand accounts of personnel who were on the flight back from Riyadh after Crown Jewel. Here's two examples from an anonymous wrestler and another from AJ Styles in this article.
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Hollywood Hulk Hogan said:
The best was the whole "Saudi hostage situation". Yes, the Saudi government took a bunch of wrestlers, who work for a company that (at the time) was owned by someone on the (then) president of the United State's cabinet, and no one knew about it except some random dirt sheet reporter. Somehow a bunch of marks and Meltzer himself still keep claiming it, too.
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expecting the msm to cover Trump-adjacent people in a positive light is a fool's game
 
Well Intentioned said:
I could be completely wrong about this, but my understanding is that Michelin has criteria that aspiring restaurants need to adhere to and there's a general sense of what does/doesn't fall under a 'Michelin restaurant.'

Whereas with Meltzer, his 'rating system' seems to be based on his whims and whoever is writing him cheques.
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In general I agree with your assessment of Meltzer, but I believe he genuinely loves this videogame style of wrestling that AEW, and Japan does. He thinks this shit is the end all, be all of wrestling.
I'm not sure he's on the take, but he is, very, emotionally invested in AEW.
 
Hollywood Hulk Hogan said:
I do agree that Vince 100% should've thought to take the belt off of Bret before he was going to offer to break the contract to Bret.

Cornette's take on it seems pretty right imo, in that it was a giant clusterfuck and there were no good guys in the situation. HBK was an asshole who deserved all of the hate he was getting from Bret, but at least he was their asshole. Vince should've thought to take the damn belt off of Bret first. Bret was taking himself way too damn seriously and was going to be making a ton of money so why does he care?
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In hindsight they should have done the following: at SS, Shawn and Brett never happens because as soon as they get into the ring, Kane (who just debuted IIRC the previous PPV and had been around for a couple of weeks at that point) shows up and just completely massacres BOTH men. Brett gets handcuffed to the ring and forced to watch Shawn get massacred and basically begging and pleading for Kane to stop murdering Shawn. And once Shawn's been murderized, Brett gets his beating and is massacred too and you have Paul Bearer forcing a ref to count to three as Kane stands on Brett's body to win the world title.

Kane beats Ken Shamrock at the December PPV, then Shawn comes back and wins the belt back at Royal Rumble due to Undertaker interferes with the match to cost Kane the belt.

We then get Kane/Undertaker and Shawn/Austin at WM '98 and afterwards, Shawn gets laid out by HHH on the Raw after Mania where Shawn reveals that Hunter conspired with Paul Bearer and Kane to launch the Survivor Series Massacre on Brett and Shawn.
 
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