General transgender discussion thread - Take the tranny related debates here.

[AnOminous]

The one The Danish Girl was based on. He sounded like an autogynephile closet case to me. I understand it was the 30s. But doctors should not have thought that a uterine transplant would result in a troon pregnancy. Did they intend to put in ovaries?

They did put in an ovary. Needless to say these butcheries are what killed him.

The second operation was to implant an ovary onto her abdominal musculature, the third to remove the penis and the scrotum.

 

[Fanatical Pragmatist]

The one The Danish Girl was based on. He sounded like an autogynephile closet case to me. I understand it was the 30s. But doctors should not have thought that a uterine transplant would result in a troon pregnancy. Did they intend to put in ovaries? Did they think the second ever vagioplasty would hold through childbirth?

I wonder how many troons still think that uterus transplants are going to be a possibility for them. The male body was not built for that sort of thing and like it or not mtf are men biologically.

Most troons hate biology, and its made even worse by Social "Science" which gives them an excuse to pretend they aren't animals subject to the laws of nature, but rather sapient souls in a society. It also gives us dumb shit like Gender Theory that we can just fucking rewrite biology if we rewrite society and suddenly females can be just as masculine as males and males can be just as femme as females.

If you peel back their "I'm trapped in the wrong body!" argument; what could be trapped in the wrong body?
The brain? The chemicals coming from the brain? The fucking ideas based around said brain chemicals?
Bitch, what are "you" besides your damn body?
Its all so nonsensical...

 

[Kinnie]

If you peel back their "I'm trapped in the wrong body!" argument; what could be trapped in the wrong body?
The brain? The chemicals coming from the brain?

Some studies have actually found that in people with gender dysphoria, some of the brain’s physical hardware aligns closer to the forms associated with the opposite sex. But the sample sizes are few (since genuine dysphoric trannies are hard to come by), and people freak out when you say male and female brains are different because that supposedly automatically implies males and females are unequal. Forget the numerous studies with far larger samples that show that, after adjusting for overall size difference, male and female brains are different, but still capable of the same things.

But with the rise of the “trans without gender dysphoria” schtick, none of this really matters anymore since anyone can just decide to be a tranny, tranny struggles and hardships be damned. Some even go as far to say that trannies with gender dysphoria have privilege over trannies without, because at least they’re “more visible”...

 

[ToddleDoddle]

I don't want to go through 45 pages to see if this has already been discussed.

Why is the trans rights movement so heavily dominated by MtF? Is it just confirmation bias because most of them are pretty hideous while most FtM either just look like twinks or butch lesbians and don't really stand out? It seems like any tranny on twitter or youtube or whatever "fighting" for trans rights is a MtF.

 

[Mrs. Addams]

I don't want to go through 45 pages to see if this has already been discussed.

Why is the trans rights movement so heavily dominated by MtF? Is it just confirmation bias because most of them are pretty hideous while most FtM either just look like twinks or butch lesbians and don't really stand out? It seems like any tranny on twitter or youtube or whatever "fighting" for trans rights is a MtF.

Because women (aka FTMs) are trained to be sweet and quiet and kind and not push themselves on people. There's exceptions obviously but it seems to be a general thing.

 

[Kinnie]

Why is the trans rights movement so heavily dominated by MtF?

Because when a guy troons out, he suddenly becomes 3 highly prized minorities: trans, lesbian, and female. When a girl troons out, she becomes a dirty ugly privileged male. Forget the fact that FTMs will always be more female than MTFs, because FTMs are raised and socialized as female from birth.

 

[Valentine]

Maybe this is unpopular on the farms, but I personally don't care if transgenders go into their transitioned gender's bathrooms, as long as they make some effort to pass and mind their own business. Johnathan Yaniv is not an example of this. However, most transgender people I know only use single bathrooms since they tend to not want to bother other people anyways.

I personally believe transgenderism is a biological imbalance, since studies have shown that their brain structure is more like their desired sex's from an early age. Whether they decide they want to transition or not is no concern of me, as long as they act like a normal person. This is becoming an unpopular opinion on Twitter as well, but I still believe transgenders require dysphoria. There's been an increased amount of fakebois on there screeching about how their quest to become a skinny anime twink is valid.

 

[I-chi]

I don't want to go through 45 pages to see if this has already been discussed.

Why is the trans rights movement so heavily dominated by MtF? Is it just confirmation bias because most of them are pretty hideous while most FtM either just look like twinks or butch lesbians and don't really stand out? It seems like any tranny on twitter or youtube or whatever "fighting" for trans rights is a MtF.

When you've failed as a man for 3+ decades and really mad about the fact that you can't get a girl; the winning move is to capitalize on the LGBTQ++'s current hyperfocus on NEVER-SHAME culture to become a wahman and force lesbians to suck your trannycock.

Pride or identity was never part of the equation, it's a grift that by all accounts should be self correcting as bIology reasserts itself; but is prolonged - again - by a culture that refuses to grow a spine and tell them to fuck off or stay in their lane.

 

[Putin Bot]

They did put in an ovary. Needless to say these butcheries are what killed him.

The fact that surgeons would actually try to put female internal reproductive organs in a male is mind boggling, horrifying, and sounds like something Mengele would have done. I mean, with all the medical experiments Mengele and other Nazi doctors did, trying to turn men into women or women into men would be right up their alley. Also, I wonder if the donor was a willing participant (this was the 30s after all)

And so many questions. Where’s it going to go exactly? Women specifically have space in their bodies to accommodate ovaries and a uterus. Men do not. How will you get them pregnant since a neovagina doesn’t connect to the uterus? Would they get a nasty infection when the uterus sheds its lining because the blood has nowhere to go? And pregnancy is an intricate process, involving many hormones, and HRT isn’t going to cover all that. How exactly will the fetus develop? God, just thinking about this makes me squeamish. I’m all for medical technology, but this is just insanity.

And if I recall correctly, for women who get a uterine transplant and manage to conceive, they have to take out the donated uterus after birth, to avoid the need for her to take immunosuppressive drugs for life with a consequent increased risk of infection. And even with the best surgeons, most transplants fail, or there’s complications with the pregnancy and/or birth.

Also, I’m an organ donor and I’ll be damned if my uterus is taken so a mentally unstable man can have it for the ultimate validation of his sick fetish to be a woman. And if it does happen, I hope that fucker dies because reality is a bitch.

 

[jorgoth]

 

[Johan Schmidt]

The fact that surgeons would actually try to put female internal reproductive organs in a male is mind boggling, horrifying, and sounds like something Mengele would have done. I mean, with all the medical experiments Mengele and other Nazi doctors did, trying to turn men into women or women into men would be right up their alley. Also, I wonder if the donor was a willing participant (this was the 30s after all)

And so many questions. Where’s it going to go exactly? Women specifically have space in their bodies to accommodate ovaries and a uterus. Men do not. How will you get them pregnant since a neovagina doesn’t connect to the uterus? Would they get a nasty infection when the uterus sheds its lining because the blood has nowhere to go? And pregnancy is an intricate process, involving many hormones, and HRT isn’t going to cover all that. How exactly will the fetus develop? God, just thinking about this makes me squeamish. I’m all for medical technology, but this is just insanity.

And if I recall correctly, for women who get a uterine transplant and manage to conceive, they have to take out the donated uterus after birth, to avoid the need for her to take immunosuppressive drugs for life with a consequent increased risk of infection. And even with the best surgeons, most transplants fail, or there’s complications with the pregnancy and/or birth.

Also, I’m an organ donor and I’ll be damned if my uterus is taken so a mentally unstable man can have it for the ultimate validation of his sick fetish to be a woman. And if it does happen, I hope that fucker dies because reality is a bitch.

I'm still considering work in the field of medicine after my degree; and from what I've read on surgeries I genuinely cannot imagine what a modern surgeon or doctor would be thinking if they considered that sort of transplant. The risks are insane and the reward is incredibly small. The Netherlands actually acknowledged this in a feasability study (
Feasibility study for performing uterus transplantation in the Netherlands, H.E Peters) Where they concluded that it was A) Extremely risky as it involved two very complicated surgeries, B) Had unknown effects on the child if it carried and C) Was literally not worth it when other options were available and was a gross misuse of limited medical materials. It was deemed too dangerous and unfair to the wider community to waste the resources on people wanting these transplants when better options exist. So they're not allowing for the procedure to be done.

I think the reality is that so many troons are so clearly fucked in the head that they literally cannot find a surrogate, and their freakish mental state and poor home lives make adoption out of the question. We simply don't police who gets to fuck and have kids the 'natural way' or via IVF; so they remain the only options for them.

As for how it would be done. It's done via IVF in women who undergo the process.

 

[Deepland Bystander]

I personally feel like the concept of transgenderism (the idea that people have innate gender identity - and gender dysphoria is caused by mismatch between actual sex and mental gender) might just be how western society deal and frame gender non-conformity and fetishism. Although this concept is far from universal as many poor countries have their own version of 'third sex' categories, where their third genders seem to be somewhat comfortable acknowledging their actual biological sex, and it has arrived us at many dubious medical procedures that.. well, can't really change anyone's sex except making an illusion of it.

So I believe that unless we actually got to the place that we can clone a new body with changed chromosomes and that come with working genitals and then do a body swap soon enough, and that no one would be confined to the body you're born with anymore - there's a possibility that the current idea of transgenderism may be seen as a dated pseudoscience, social standard, and a quasi-religion of our time.

So if that times really come, It would be interesting... Would 'Detransitioning' become a next fad as more and more people realised troonism isn't for them, but the majority of them are still self-victimising narcissists who likes to blame everyone else except themselves (Just like the majority of troons.?, they're cut from the same cloth regardless what they identify as... sadly this is what detrans subreddit turned into. I feel sad for them but many of them are still as crazy). Now we're going to hear they cry about these barbaric procedures instead of accepting that they push these things out in the first place for a while, and eventually troon laws are going to be revised. What will come after this?

Maybe the transitioning will be left as a medical relics in history and these things are now banned? Or maybe the procedures will be kept around (Pharma companies and surgeons need to make $$$ somehow) but recontextualised as 'cosmetic', and we'll stop with the illusion that we can really change sex, you if you're going to get a wound in your crotch and tits implants? go for it, but you'll be M in driving license. What would sports be? A new free-for-all leagues with allowed doping and any kind of body mods? A new 'castrati' phenomenon in music, boys who who would get their puberty blocked or girls who take T to sound a certain way that's uncommon in unaltered people? Of course I don't know how things will be, just throwing things around for deep thots.

..And then, how do you think the historians would think of the current trans phenomenon? And that the activism, political fight and attempts to rewrite history... may be 'rewritten' again? How do you think curren troon will be seen in the future if troonism lost its legitimacy?

you may see these things in your lifetime so sit back and enjoy your popcorn. Maybe it'll never fall in my life time, but it's fun to think anyway.

 

[Gun Safety]

I used to be very sympathetic towards trans people years ago (and still kind of am in a way). The idea that people had a psychological condition where their own body led to crippling anxiety/depression I think would make anyone feel bad for them. Hormone treatment and surgery seemed like something acceptable to me for someone who could barely function with their current body. But it seems as if it grows more acceptable to be trans it's become a social pathology. Also the argument for trans has become less medical and, like most leftist things, become an argument for negation of societal norms.

The argument now seems to be that sex and gender are separate and gender is an entirely social construct. 'Male' and 'female' are arbitrary distinctions and NOT a product of continuous observation of how the male and female sex actually act. But since we live in a society with these arbitrary norms trans people have to conform to them if they don't particularly like the gender they were assigned with.

My own questions with this line of thought are:
A) Since when do people on the left advocate for conforming to societal norms rather than destroying them? People on the left never suggested gays should just hide it and pretend to be straight or that fat people should just lose weight to avoid being shamed. It's always change society to conform to the individual and not the other way around.

B) Where did the idea of male and female even find their basis in reality? It must be based on biological sex or otherwise why is it consistently applied to people with certain physiological compositions?

C) Would you even want to abolish gender? Wouldn't that make the world a far less interesting place to live in? You couldn't identify as straight or gay (I wonder what would happen if you asked a gender critical person whether you were gay or not without giving away how you identify, how would they respond?). You wouldn't be able to have any ideal of man or woman to aspire to. It would just be a gray homogenization of humanity.

I don't think the modern argument for trans, if I portrayed it correctly, can hold up under examination. The most offensive thing about most trans to me, aside from their appearance, is the destruction of something that I think is fundamentally very beautiful, the idea of man and woman. Which, I suppose is sentimental, but I find the complimentary nature of male and female to be a beautiful thing and the desire to destroy it as evil.

Maybe this is unpopular on the farms, but I personally don't care if transgenders go into their transitioned gender's bathrooms, as long as they make some effort to pass and mind their own business. Johnathan Yaniv is not an example of this. However, most transgender people I know only use single bathrooms since they tend to not want to bother other people anyways.

I personally believe transgenderism is a biological imbalance, since studies have shown that their brain structure is more like their desired sex's from an early age. Whether they decide they want to transition or not is no concern of me, as long as they act like a normal person. This is becoming an unpopular opinion on Twitter as well, but I still believe transgenders require dysphoria. There's been an increased amount of fakebois on there screeching about how their quest to become a skinny anime twink is valid.

I think the desire to keep bathrooms segregated from trans people tends to come down more to politics. You know, if you let them have the bathroom they'll demand something more extreme, which is probable. But even so, we've already seen people use their trans identity to go into female only areas to live out sexual fantasies. I forget their name, but I'm reminded about the troon who was obsessed with periods and going into bathrooms and chatting about it or something. As trans becomes more accepted I'm sure this kind of thing will happen more often.

 

[Valentine]

I used to be very sympathetic towards trans people years ago (and still kind of am in a way). The idea that people had a psychological condition where their own body led to crippling anxiety/depression I think would make anyone feel bad for them. Hormone treatment and surgery seemed like something acceptable to me for someone who could barely function with their current body. But it seems as if it grows more acceptable to be trans it's become a social pathology. Also the argument for trans has become less medical and, like most leftist things, become an argument for negation of societal norms.

The argument now seems to be that sex and gender are separate and gender is an entirely social construct. 'Male' and 'female' are arbitrary distinctions and NOT a product of continuous observation of how the male and female sex actually act. But since we live in a society with these arbitrary norms trans people have to conform to them if they don't particularly like the gender they were assigned with.

My own questions with this line of thought are:
A) Since when do people on the left advocate for conforming to societal norms rather than destroying them? People on the left never suggested gays should just hide it and pretend to be straight or that fat people should just lose weight to avoid being shamed. It's always change society to conform to the individual and not the other way around.

B) Where did the idea of male and female even find their basis in reality? It must be based on biological sex or otherwise why is it consistently applied to people with certain physiological compositions?

C) Would you even want to abolish gender? Wouldn't that make the world a far less interesting place to live in? You couldn't identify as straight or gay (I wonder what would happen if you asked a gender critical person whether you were gay or not without giving away how you identify, how would they respond?). You wouldn't be able to have any ideal of man or woman to aspire to. It would just be a gray homogenization of humanity.

I don't think the modern argument for trans, if I portrayed it correctly, can hold up under examination. The most offensive thing about most trans to me, aside from their appearance, is the destruction of something that I think is fundamentally very beautiful, the idea of man and woman. Which, I suppose is sentimental, but I find the complimentary nature of male and female to be a beautiful thing and the desire to destroy it as evil.




I think the desire to keep bathrooms segregated from trans people tends to come down more to politics. You know, if you let them have the bathroom they'll demand something more extreme, which is probable. But even so, we've already seen people use their trans identity to go into female only areas to live out sexual fantasies. I forget their name, but I'm reminded about the troon who was obsessed with periods and going into bathrooms and chatting about it or something. As trans becomes more accepted I'm sure this kind of thing will happen more often.

Yes, that was Jonathan Yaniv. I don't clearly remember what his trans name was, Jessica??

Of course, there will always be the occasional dirtbags that use their identity for immoral conducts such as harrassing women or children. Those people can be stripped of everything and stuck into hot tar and I couldn't care less. However, most of the trans people I know just want to normally get by as their desired gender. The Twitter troons screaming about small things/mistakes, "aggressions", and asking for a mile from an inch does make me a bit annoyed, but I tend to just mark them off as confused hormonal teenagers. Well, besides for the rare cases where the person in question is thirty years old and rampaging about being misgendered by strangers when they don't pass at all. At that point they truly have no hope.

Also, apparently not fitting into the gender binary can now count you in as "trans"? But honestly, the nonbinary scene is such a dumpsterfire that I refuse to touch it with an eight foot pole. There is no solid consensus there.

 

[onlysimps]

I don't want to go through 45 pages to see if this has already been discussed.

Why is the trans rights movement so heavily dominated by MtF? Is it just confirmation bias because most of them are pretty hideous while most FtM either just look like twinks or butch lesbians and don't really stand out? It seems like any tranny on twitter or youtube or whatever "fighting" for trans rights is a MtF.

Statistics of a study done in Australia (2016) showed that like 5.5% of responses identified as trans male whereas 7.5% identified as trans female. I think there is statistically more MtF than FtM.

 

[Heckler1]

I feel bad for trans people with dysphoria who are being represented by attention seeking troons who are middle aged neets in tutus claiming to be "real whaman". If you are honestly trying to pass because it is the thing that helps alleviate your mental illness, I cannot imagine what it feels like to see people weaponizing your condition for asspats and to bullying must suck.
I wouldn't be surprised if trauma was at the root of a lot of genuine trans folks conditions.

 

[KateHikes14]

I feel bad for trans people with dysphoria who are being represented by attention seeking troons who are middle aged neets in tutus claiming to be "real whaman". If you are honestly trying to pass because it is the thing that helps alleviate your mental illness, I cannot imagine what it feels like to see people weaponizing your condition for asspats and to bullying must suck.
I wouldn't be surprised if trauma was at the root of a lot of genuine trans folks conditions.

They'll never work to excoriate that cancer from their ranks, so how can you feel bad? They may whine and may rarely criticize them, but only in a way that feeds into their self pity.

 

[Heckler1]

They'll never work to excoriate that cancer from their ranks, so how can you feel bad? They may whine and may rarely criticize them, but only in a way that feeds into their self pity.

Why wouldn't I feel bad for vulnerable people trying to cope with their condition, having their lives co-opted by perverts and the power hungry betas of the world? Especially when they get told the best solution is to mutilate themselves. Unless conservatives get real accepting real fast, I don't see what their other option is.

 

[janedoe]

transgenderism will always be body mutilation to me.
you force hormones into your body and you cut up your genitals. your genitals will never work the same way real genitals work. that's fucking horrifying. perhaps it does speak to the dysphoria, that someone would rather chop up their dick or frankenstein their clit. but i somehow can't bring myself to believe 'yes, this is the better alternative to hating your own body'. it just seems worse.

also it doesn't sit right with me to depend on surgeons and pharmacies to dictate your happiness. it seems so fucking greedy and opportunistic to tell people with body and mental issues that they need to be cut up and stitched back together to be happy.

it's such a tricky discussion for me. because harsh as i am coming off here, i do wonder what the better alternative is. i know it must suck hard to feel like you're in the wrong body, but you do not become closer to the ideal body just because someone turns your cock inside out. you become something further than ideal. you become a science experiment.

it's just depressing seeing people be groomed into believing this shit will make them happy.

 

[PissPool]

I don't want to go through 45 pages to see if this has already been discussed.

Why is the trans rights movement so heavily dominated by MtF? Is it just confirmation bias because most of them are pretty hideous while most FtM either just look like twinks or butch lesbians and don't really stand out? It seems like any tranny on twitter or youtube or whatever "fighting" for trans rights is a MtF.

Before KiwiFarms I read incel forums because I’ve always been a whore for drama and hate watching, and it’s given me a theory.

Spoiler: Long

There is a huge influx of 20-30 year old men trooning out right now, the kind that don’t have dysphoria but totally get ‘euphoria’ from putting on a dress. The AGPs. And yes, it being a fetish is part of it, but it’s not the only reason. The reason is desperate broken men trying to get a better quality of life through dumbass means.

In incel communities there’s the usual women hate, but there’s also bitterness because of the belief that being a woman is wonderful. Life as a girl is life on easy mode, especially for the hot ones. This belief can get so delusional you see men who sincerely think women should never be sad or depressed- how can they when life bows down to them and gives them everything they want? Hardcore incels just get bitter and more hateful, but this belief is so widespread it also makes its way to the troon vulnerable community- whiteknight loser guys.

These are the ones who will troon out. These are the men who like talking about how women are glorious goddesses who should be cherished and treated as perfect specimens of humanity. They see life as an anime, where the guys talk about how you have to treat women as special and perfect and then always protect the girls and shower them with affection. Sure, the odd creep might menace them but another guy will always swoop in and protect her! They see this as how women in real life actually go through their existence.
It doesn’t matter how many pretty girls talk about how it can really suck because you are creeped on and harassed a lot, because they don’t see that as a negative thing. The hot girls problems are the opposite of their problems (i.e being ignored and mocked). They want to be harassed and catcalled because they are desperate to be noticed and complimented. They were not raised to be fearful like girls were, so there’s no reflection that maybe problems on the far opposite side of the spectrum suck too.
So after years of being unable to get any positive attention (especially from girls) and feeling invisible and like a failure of a man, it’s not hard to see the weird leap of logic that if they become a girl they will also be treated as a precious goddess. They will finally get attention, praise, and kindness. They will join a club that seems to look out for one another and have instant friends because girls are like, TOTALLY all about sticking together and being besties hee hee! 10 years ago they couldn’t have trooned out because being trans was all about feeling like your body was wrong. These guys don’t feel that way- except now you don’t need dysphoria so what’s stopping you from living life on easy mode?

But girls and sane people know that life is hard for girls like it is all humans. They still have to make rent, deal with mean people and shitty bosses. People don’t actually treat them like a perfect goddess and they have their own host of unique problems. When these men troon out they find out that life hasn’t changed and gotten perfect, so to cope they stick together and make ‘no cis girls allowed’ clubs to try and become what they wanted from others- endless thirst posts to boost egos. If the world won’t naturally treat them as goddesses like the expected, well by God they just have to do it for each other then.