General transgender discussion thread - Take the tranny related debates here.

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'Disclosure', new 'trannies in Hollywood' including that Matrix nutjob in its ranks. It was okay, but once more, it involves only very well passing, powerful, rich trannies, outside said Matrix nutjob who is clearly a man, and not the actual average tranny who wants to beat up women and look like a father of 3 doing it.

It's so easy to talk about these social "issues" at the highest level of cosmetic perfection. It was pretty hilarious how large a part sex work played in that documentary though. "It's not all we are", as if sex work to any capacity is normal. Let alone why it's so common for these people.

Overall a bad documentary that once more didn't address any of the real issues; making a fetish out of half the planet's existence and demanding respect doing it.
 
It pisses me off when you bring up the simplest argument to a troon and they say something along the lines of "You're denying my existence!!" Like, no, you are standing right here, lookin' like a carbon lifeform... so, obviously I think you exist. What kind of argument even is that? And, yeah, I think trans people exist. How else would we be able to define these fuckin' lunatics? "Trans", as in "transition", as in you're in a perm limbo, never to reach the destination.
 
I wish I had the power to erase trans people with pronouns and science. Sadly, they seem to be a pretty hardy plague upon humanity.
 
Just a reminder that Dr. John Money intentionally emasculated a young boy, forced him to perform sex acts, and advocated for pedophilia. That's who is behind this push for transgenderism. Just remember that. It's a shame Hitler lost. This is what book burning was for.
 
I'm gonna try my best to avoid powerlevelling too hard. I just have a general experience with the whole transgender thing, and have only come out thinking worse of it/them as a whole.

I was once a pronouns in bio, wanting HRT, mentally fucked individual. That stage of my life went on a long while, mainly during my late teens. Though one of my big factors with that stuff, was that I realized I was not mentally well and wanted to get that sorted first. When I did, the insecurity in my "gender" or whatever didn't necessarily go away, but it was made less extreme where I was able to come to terms with reality. I am what I am, and as much as a cosmetic change will make me feel/look better on the surface, the foundation will remain the same.

The majority of the people who want to transition are in the same place but unwilling to accept that something they can't see (brain stuff) is more effectively taken care of than the stuff they can see (physical appearance). I know, I've talked to these people. I've been in Discords with these people. They don't want a different solution. It's rather saddening seeing people actively ruining their lives and health at relatively young ages, when they will likely never reach a point where they are truly satisfied with their transition. You can't turn back because of that pesky Gambler's fallacy, so you just sink further and further until you become a statistic.
 
Talking about how they’re transitioning kids younger and younger - a “non binary” 11 year old here has been put on puberty blockers because she doesn’t want an adult woman’s body. Every kid is self conscious about puberty at some point, and this gender ideology suggesting that the whole process can just be stopped in its tracks with drugs is just creating a bunch of children who will never grow up. Like the article says she’s going to take them until she’s 16, then what?

There hasn’t been much research done on these drugs and whether or not they’re reversible is unknown - all the studies published on them used kids who developed too early and then stopped taking the blockers once reaching a more typical age for puberty. But if the blockers are taken up until late teens/adulthood, when a person would otherwise have finished developing, and no cross-sex hormones are given, is this girl going to start puberty at 16, defeating the whole purpose of the drugs? Or is she going to be stuck permanently as a little girl?

The therapist allowing this is a quack. And the comment about “changing your body to what you see as the ideal” - how is this any different to unnecessary cosmetic surgery for non-genderspecial girls with body image issues? In the early 2000s a teenage girl in the UK got breast implants as a 16th birthday present and people were shocked, as they should be (her parents were plastic surgeons, so it’s likely that influenced her) though a kid wanting to be genderless is celebrated.
 
Longcat said:
Like the article says she’s going to take them until she’s 16, then what?
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Permanent culture warrior.

In some sense it's not so different than the 50+ yo women who never stop plastic surgery. Very profitable for some. But then applied to kids. Very sick stuff.
 
I've flipped through page after page on this thread and it's always a rare treat to see that something new and interesting has been said, but I feel that this is mostly just an echo chamber where you can come to sperg on loop about transgenderism while you tell yourself what an intellectual discussion you're having.
 
Gus said:
I've flipped through page after page on this thread and it's always a rare treat to see that something new and interesting has been said, but I feel that this is mostly just an echo chamber where you can come to sperg on loop about transgenderism while you tell yourself what an intellectual discussion you're having.
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It's the nature of containment threads. They're easily derailed. It's hard to build up genuine side-topics. It's the result of organisation more than anything else.
 
Tanuki Mixed Nuts said:
I'm gonna try my best to avoid powerlevelling too hard. I just have a general experience with the whole transgender thing, and have only come out thinking worse of it/them as a whole.

I was once a pronouns in bio, wanting HRT, mentally fucked individual. That stage of my life went on a long while, mainly during my late teens. Though one of my big factors with that stuff, was that I realized I was not mentally well and wanted to get that sorted first. When I did, the insecurity in my "gender" or whatever didn't necessarily go away, but it was made less extreme where I was able to come to terms with reality. I am what I am, and as much as a cosmetic change will make me feel/look better on the surface, the foundation will remain the same.

The majority of the people who want to transition are in the same place but unwilling to accept that something they can't see (brain stuff) is more effectively taken care of than the stuff they can see (physical appearance). I know, I've talked to these people. I've been in Discords with these people. They don't want a different solution. It's rather saddening seeing people actively ruining their lives and health at relatively young ages, when they will likely never reach a point where they are truly satisfied with their transition. You can't turn back because of that pesky Gambler's fallacy, so you just sink further and further until you become a statistic.
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Knew a guy with hormone imbalance. It was like meeting a new person the next day. After that he also gave up on his multi-gender furry character and settled with something normal and male.

I feel a lot of the "HRT can fix this" mentality comes from generally just being dissatisfied with yourself. A friend of mine went from being a thin dude to a chubby HRT-dude to now wanting to be overtly obese and be treated like a kween. And the second I go "Well I'm not happy with my body either but I don't project it into some weird gender issue" they lose their shit, as if they've got monopoly on body envy.

On one hand I'm sure there are lots of healthy sex-happy transsexuals out there, who smile when they're called a faggot tranny and go have sex with their supportive partner, but the ratios must be so insanely fucked. Like 50 gender critical north americans to every one passing south american porn goddess.
 
Cactus Wings said:
Knew a guy with hormone imbalance. It was like meeting a new person the next day. After that he also gave up on his multi-gender furry character and settled with something normal and male.

I feel a lot of the "HRT can fix this" mentality comes from generally just being dissatisfied with yourself. A friend of mine went from being a thin dude to a chubby HRT-dude to now wanting to be overtly obese and be treated like a kween. And the second I go "Well I'm not happy with my body either but I don't project it into some weird gender issue" they lose their shit, as if they've got monopoly on body envy.

On one hand I'm sure there are lots of healthy sex-happy transsexuals out there, who smile when they're called a faggot tranny and go have sex with their supportive partner, but the ratios must be so insanely fucked. Like 50 gender critical north americans to every one passing south american porn goddess.
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I said in my post before that the effort to just change your appearance seems easier than changing your mentality, whether through meds, or physically changing your lifestyle in a positive way. It's similar to why a fat person wouldn't want to work out, and would rather just surround themselves with fat people who think being fat is just as good as being otherwise healthy. The path of changing themselves in a way they perceive as more difficult is just less appealing.

HRT itself, at least when I was younger and introduced to it as a concept, seems almost like a miracle to someone who wants to be the opposite sex. Though, obviously the trans people on the internet would rather only push out the good effects and not the fact that a lot of side effects will happen and a lot of them will be there forever. The "HRT can fix this" thing, is only partially self imposed, and is majorly influenced by trans groups on the internet selling it like they are trying to induct you into a cult.

At this point in my life, I wouldn't know what I think of myself physically, but it doesn't really matter that much. As you said, everyone has some insecurities, some of them massive, and some of them so small that you can't help but be annoyed that you notice it at all. Trans people are just either TOLD they should transition and that it will help them, or they see that as the easiest path to changing for the better, when it's honestly a fuck ton of work and will effectively tie you to expensive meds for the rest of your life.

Oh and then there are those people who are attracted to something, so they "become" that thing by transitioning, and are only in it to satisfy some fetish rather than actually partake in some lifelong attempt to pretend you're normal.
 
Troonos said:
Because autism greatly increases the chances of being a lolcow, and there's a very strong correlation between autism and trannydom.
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Because Autistic people have alexithymia. They don't even understand their own emotions so they get this idea of feeling trapped in the wrong body. They think a transition into another gender will solve this but it does not.
 
Random take.

The debate so often focuses exclusively around what's good for society, or what society wants. Obviously this is an important debate, but it doesn't seem like many people are actually talking about what's best for the trans individuals.

What actually decreases dysphoria and improves quality of life?

What's the actual cause of the dysphoria? (And if there are multiple different causes, as I believe, how can these differences be teased out to provide the best treatment?)

I recall reading a Mosaic Mind study that looked at the brain scans of some couple thousand of people. The methodology was bullshit. But the data was good. The original study claimed that gender was a spectrum.

The data showed that something like 60% of people have at least one form of the mind more like the other sex.

Dr. Debora Soh, and others, took the same data, and based purely on brain scans accurately predicted the sex of 80% of the subjects.

What this indicates to me is that neurological gender, if such a distinction can be drawn, isn't a spectrum, but neither is it a binary. It's more like two distinct bellcurves with a little bit of overlap in the middle. Who's to say some of those people shouldn't transition? Hard to say. I don't think we have enough data.
 
SirenBrain said:
Random take.

The debate so often focuses exclusively around what's good for society, or what society wants. Obviously this is an important debate, but it doesn't seem like many people are actually talking about what's best for the trans individuals.

What actually decreases dysphoria and improves quality of life?

What's the actual cause of the dysphoria? (And if there are multiple different causes, as I believe, how can these differences be teased out to provide the best treatment?)

I recall reading a Mosaic Mind study that looked at the brain scans of some couple thousand of people. The methodology was bullshit. But the data was good. The original study claimed that gender was a spectrum.

The data showed that something like 60% of people have at least one form of the mind more like the other sex.

Dr. Debora Soh, and others, took the same data, and based purely on brain scans accurately predicted the sex of 80% of the subjects.

What this indicates to me is that neurological gender, if such a distinction can be drawn, isn't a spectrum, but neither is it a binary. It's more like two distinct bellcurves with a little bit of overlap in the middle. Who's to say some of those people shouldn't transition? Hard to say. I don't think we have enough data.
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I understand where you're coming from, but at the end of the day how well you fit into what is normal or average for men vs women is only measurable because we have a useful definition of what being a man or a woman even is. Being an outlier for your category doesn't change the category, it just fills out the bell curve.

I'm a devout TERF, but at the end of the day there are tons of ideologies I disagree with and gender identity is merely one of them. I'm very much a live-and-let-live kind of person and as long as I'm not forced to agree with you I genuinely do not care if you believe things I don't.

I just resent the troons who gush online about how they knew they were women because they jerked it to sissy porn and, as everyone knows, true and honest women just looooooove to be degraded especially during sex. And the troons who want kids to be put on lifelong medical treatment because they don't slot neatly into what men or women tend to be.
 
GenitalFetishist said:
I understand where you're coming from, but at the end of the day how well you fit into what is normal or average for men vs women is only measurable because we have a useful definition of what being a man or a woman even is. Being an outlier for your category doesn't change the category, it just fills out the bell curve.

I just resent the troons who gush online about how they knew they were women because they jerked it to sissy porn and, as everyone knows, true and honest women just looooooove to be degraded especially during sex. And the troons who want kids to be put on lifelong medical treatment because they don't slot neatly into what men or women tend to be.
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To the second point. Sure. There are a lot of mentally unwell people who are hyped up on the nitro of social activism.

At the same time. I don't agree with the first point. If you are neurologically and socially more like the other sex, and the hormones, and to a much lesser degree the physical typology, can be changed. What's the defining line for gender?

The moment you open the door to gender not inherently being tied to sex, which I think is a conversation worth having in a developed society, you start having to tackle the nuance of what defines gender. It also opens the door for adding social consideration for atypical gender expressions, or people who's gender is more in line with the other sex.

I think this is something everyone kind of knows. They just don't know they know it. Even people who are hardline in insisting gender is a binary have insults for people who don't fit that binary. Isn't that insult inherently evidence that a strict binary doesn't exist?

I want to distance myself from the activists. I think they're just as harmful to the discussion as the puritans, but I do think there's much more to be considered in this discussion.
 
Sinners Sandwich said:
Your is acquaintance and the parents of trans kids are idiots. I understand kids like Jazz don't know any better but there is no excuse for adults.

The penis gets destroyed during srs. So where the hell do "all the good sexy feelings" come from when there is so little left? If you think your dick is going to retain all feelings after getting cut open, flayed, fileted and turned inside out, you are fucking r.etarded.
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It's one of those things you don't consider until you really have to think about it, but let's compare "SRS" to other types of hypothetical butchery. SRS is like having your stomach flayed open like a flower and expecting it to still hold food and stomach juices like a sack. SRS is like flaying your leg, rearranging the femur, tibia, and fibula and expecting to walk on it as well as a normal leg. SRS is like getting an ostomy bag installed and expecting to be able to shit out your anus.

When compared to that, it sounds insane, doesn't it? I could say I don't understand this delusion, but Heaven's Gate was a thing and 900 people committed mass suicide at Jonestown. People will do anything to feel less alone, even if it means dragging down others to their deaths.
 
keyboredsm4shthe2nd said:
It's one of those things you don't consider until you really have to think about it, but let's compare "SRS" to other types of hypothetical butchery. SRS is like having your stomach flayed open like a flower and expecting it to still hold food and stomach juices like a sack. SRS is like flaying your leg, rearranging the femur, tibia, and fibula and expecting to walk on it as well as a normal leg. SRS is like getting an ostomy bag installed and expecting to be able to shit out your anus.

When compared to that, it sounds insane, doesn't it? I could say I don't understand this delusion, but Heaven's Gate was a thing and 900 people committed mass suicide at Jonestown. People will do anything to feel less alone, even if it means dragging down others to their deaths.
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Jonestown was largely a mass-murder/coerced. But, darkly enough, this makes your point even stronger :(
 
It's fun that, no matter how many surgeries these people go through, they still need to use dilators for their holes not to go back to form a penis (or try to). But then, we're supposed to "understand" they're true and honest women, not at all different to biological women, because biological women don't really exist, inserting a dildo up your coochie to keep it open it's what normal women do.
 
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