General transgender discussion thread - Take the tranny related debates here.

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lemmiwinks said:
I don't believe that the answers to sex and or gender can be answered by philosophy. This biology and behaviour has been with us since before the dawn of man and I have a very hard time with the argument that gender is "largely a social construct".
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lemmiwinks said:
To be clear, I do believe that philosophy is important and that there are answers to some of the big questions available there. I just don't think it's super relevant to questions about sex or gender.
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Au contraire, I think Philosophy has plenty to say with gender and especially "queerness"; the problem is that philosophers are forbidden to say it. If philosophers actually examine critically a troon's concept of gender, they will find it inconsistent. First ask "where does gender reside".
  • It cannot be in the body, because a body, troons say, might be born with the wrong gender.
  • It cannot be in society, because man does not automatically become a woman when he partake a female role. This problem also applies to the postmodern "gender is performative" school of Judith Butler, which attempts to "embody" gender in non-biological ways. Because who determines which "repetitive performativity" is relevant to gender and which isn't?
  • It cannot be in language, because first a man does not automatically become a woman if someone calls him "she" (or if he uses a female form of language, for example in Japanese) and second it means someone who is non-lingual (e.g. profoundly mentally deficient) cannot have a gender.

The only refuge the queergender people can take is that to adopt a kind of mind-body Dualism: gender is all in the mind and the mind has nothing to do with the body. In addition to all the well-discussed difficulty with mind-body Dualism, it doesn't explain why troons are so intent to modify their body, or think having truck-loads of surgery would allow them to "live their authentic selves".
 
Positron said:
Au contraire, I think Philosophy has plenty to say with gender and especially "queerness"; the problem is that philosophers are forbidden to say it. If philosophers actually examine critically a troon's concept of gender, they will find it inconsistent. First ask "where does gender reside".
  • It cannot be in the body, because a body, troons say, might be born with the wrong gender.
  • It cannot be in society, because man does not automatically become a woman when he partake a female role. This problem also applies to the postmodern "gender is performative" school of Judith Butler, which attempts to "embody" gender in non-biological ways. Because who determines which "repetitive performativity" is relevant to gender and which isn't?
  • It cannot be in language, because first a man does not automatically become a woman if someone calls him "she" (or if he uses a female form of language, for example in Japanese) and second it means someone who is non-lingual (e.g. profoundly mentally deficient) cannot have a gender.

The only refuge the queergender people can take is that to adopt a kind of mind-body Dualism: gender is all in the mind and the mind has nothing to do with the body. In addition to all the well-discussed difficulty with mind-body Dualism, it doesn't explain why troons are so intent to modify their body, or think having truck-loads of surgery would allow them to "live their authentic selves".
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After reading these points, I realized that what I should have said instead of:
lemmiwinks said:
I don't believe that the answers to sex and or gender can be answered by philosophy
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is "I don't know if the answers to sex and or gender can be answered by philosophy". I know very little about philosophy and probably because of that, I don't think about it when it comes to a practical application. You have made good points and it is obvious that I should learn more about it before I make generalizations on the topic.
Otterly said:
That’s a diplomatic way of putting it...a lot of people think fMRI is quackery.
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Yeah, I try to keep it truthy! It's just more of the same as above though, I don't know enough about fMRI to entirely dismiss it. What I know about it is enough to realize that in 5-10 years a lot of studies are going to be discredited, and the ambiguity of it makes it easy for those in the know to manipulate the data.
 
ATaxingWoman said:
Rhys does indeed appear less combative nowadays. I thought he would feel more comfortable insulting those he hates with his account set on private and primarily asskissers in his mentions, but instead he seems to have become cowardly and less aggressive. Maybe that failed LGBT club talk had such a big effect on him that he lost his "fighting spirit".
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I’ll be interested to see how the Trans Day of Attention-Seeking talk goes. He might get a bigger audience, if only because that’s a very troon-oriented event, and I wonder if that will boost his confidence.

How curious that they always seem to forget the little detail that the pre-2016 regulations required the person to get SRS and had stricter hormone therapy requirements (troubles which few mediocre fame hungry athletes are willing to go through).
According to Mosier, pointing out that this is primarily affecting women's sports is just a matter of "getting hung up on medals and podium positions"
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How, though? Ignoring the obvious bullshit about wanting to win, how does sport in particular affirm gender? If anything, it should be the opposite. Sure, being able to compete in a women’s category is gender-affirming, but no more so than the preferred pronouns or clothing. At the same time, trans athletes are around people who emphasise how different their own bodies are. When you’re towering over everyone else, twice their size, beating them without trying when they’re at their physical peak, how can you think “these are my people?” It should cause horrific dysphoria.

The only way it can be charitably described as gender-affirming is, in fact, through medals and podium position, so you can point at them and say, “Well, these people think I’m a woman and in fact the best woman!”
 
ATaxingWoman said:
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Problem is, I don't give a single shit about what "affirms" you. It is not the role of society to make you feel good about yourself, and you're comparing giving troons active positive reinforcement vs. giving women their own space to compete fairly.

If troons stuck with trying to get tolerance or acceptance, it would be a much easier sell. But no, they demand that at every step of the way the rest of the world celebrate them, treat them specially, try and make them happy. Other minorities don't ask for that - but somehow troons have earned the right to everything they want and more.

The entitlement is all-encompassing.
 
Tragi-Chan said:
How, though? Ignoring the obvious bullshit about wanting to win, how does sport in particular affirm gender? If anything, it should be the opposite. Sure, being able to compete in a women’s category is gender-affirming, but no more so than the preferred pronouns or clothing. At the same time, trans athletes are around people who emphasise how different their own bodies are. When you’re towering over everyone else, twice their size, beating them without trying when they’re at their physical peak, how can you think “these are my people?” It should cause horrific dysphoria.

The only way it can be charitably described as gender-affirming is, in fact, through medals and podium position, so you can point at them and say, “Well, these people think I’m a woman and in fact the best woman!”
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You are trying to use logic to explain their actions like this is a debate were your goal is to convince other people. It is not what they are doing. They are trying to brute force the world into accepting their beliefs without questions. Turn it on the head, if we can't stop them from participating were they obviously don't belong, how can we stop them anywhere else? By forcing us to accept something that clearly isn't right they might break the will of their opponents.

Look to Labour. Right now they aren't debating trans right, they are enforcing them with threats. You are either with us, or you are going to get expelled and branded a bigot. Winning court cases, pushing women out of sport and changing the law is their way of asserting dominance.

Hopefully this is were they will fuck up. By taking it a step to far and affecting too many people who used to be indifferent. Normies don't care about trans rights, but they do care about sport. They can see the blatant injustice in front of them and they react very harshly when they are told not to speak out on it. Hopefully Rhys and his comrades are parachuting in on a brigde too far.
 
JP's_Canadian_Cider said:
Look to Labour. Right now they aren't debating trans right, they are enforcing them with threats
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And that's why they suffered the worst defeat since the 1930s and lost more voters in the last few days with their troon cult bullshit.

The more troons attempt to change society the more normies become aware & refuse to support them.
 
Let's get trans people on cheerleading squads for the NFL!! That'll show the normies (and peak-trans 99 percent of 'em).
I'd love to see Russell Greer's reaction, for one lmao
 
JP's_Canadian_Cider said:
Look to Labour. Right now they aren't debating trans right, they are enforcing them with threats. You are either with us, or you are going to get expelled and branded a bigot. Winning court cases, pushing women out of sport and changing the law is their way of asserting dominance.
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If you don't get elected, you don't get to pass laws, and you don't get to appoint judges who agree with you either.
 
I think people in this thread are over-thinking things a bit with regard to trannies. Simple biological reality shows that biological sex(the concept that actually matters, not the nonsense term gender, which was made up by a sicko who wanted to abuse two boys)is in the overwhelming majority of cases immutable. Men are men, women are women, if you have a dick, you ain't a chick, and if you have a vagina, you aren't a man.
 
General Disarray said:
Let's get trans people on cheerleading squads for the NFL!! That'll show the normies (and peak-trans 99 percent of 'em).
I'd love to see Russell Greer's reaction, for one lmao
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Every game where this happens would be like the MMA fight from Bruno where the dudes in the audience start throwing shit.
 
Otterly said:
That’s a diplomatic way of putting it...a lot of people think fMRI is quackery.
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Time sensitivity is bad. Artifacts exist. Everything has to be mapped to a normal brain which propagates the artifacts, etc. It's interesting but like nearly everyone I've talked to in the field agrees that it's a ridiculously unreliable method.

We may as well be doing phrenology at this point.
 
I forgot about this one. No discussion about the science of fMRI would be complete without the study on the brain activity of a dead salmon :story:
 
Basically gender roles are social constructs, because they fit with a paradigm, which we have created in order for our species to function. In essence society is supposed to serve our needs. Traditions are supposed to serve us. If the tradition becomes impractical or unsustainable, it evolves.

Biological sex is what is strapped to your pelvis. If you are born with a dongle per your XY orders, you are male. If you have a vajayjay (XX) you are female.

Gender in and of itself, is not a social construct. Gender roles are, but gender is something of a polite way of saying "biological sex."

So sporting a feather duster and donning a French maid's outfit does nothing to change your gender. Instead you are imposing a socially constructed female gender ROLE on the person's body expression.

People can talk till their blue in the face about fMRI's and male brains and female brains and gayness and anus and strangeness ... nothing changes.

My personal belief is that sure ... you can take on what YOU interpret to be a given gender role. But your gender/biological sex is embedded in your DNA and is immutable.
 
All I have to say is, it's often apparent when a person transitions not to relieve personal dysphoria, but out of some sort of social pressure from others around them (be it SJWs grooming them into troondom, general fetishism, or what have you...).

When it's the latter and the person is generally a huge tool about their gender as well, this is what makes trooncows. There's a reason why we don't have a thread dedicated to roasting Blaire White. Trans people can and do earn social acceptance by being normal people like everyone else instead of screaming at them to check their privilege.

Trenders are also real and seriously need their heads unfucked before they make a terrible decision they will regret, with no real back button.
 
Travis Touchdown Cumsock said:
All I have to say is, it's often apparent when a person transitions not to relieve personal dysphoria, but out of some sort of social pressure from others around them (be it SJWs grooming them into troondom, general fetishism, or what have you...).

When it's the latter and the person is generally a huge tool about their gender as well, this is what makes trooncows. There's a reason why we don't have a thread dedicated to roasting Blaire White. Trans people can and do earn social acceptance by being normal people like everyone else instead of screaming at them to check their privilege.

Trenders are also real and seriously need their heads unfucked before they make a terrible decision they will regret, with no real back button.
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It is an illusion that the rest of us have some kind of privilege based on the fact that our biological sex corresponds with our self-image as a man or a woman. This is a bizarre mantra that some people are chanting. And it is a symptom of psychiatric disorders, I believe it is called "splitting" when you think that all of group A is black and all of group B is white. With no shades of gray, or factual basis actually. Some people might think that the grass is greener on the other side, and when they finally make it over there, they have permanently lost their penis and now have a set of sagging tits and even more difficulty fitting in.

If you are a man with problems, is living life as a chemically and surgically constructed woman going to relieve your suffering?

If you have genuine gender dysphoria, (statistically, a very rare condition) yes, these drastic measures might be what it takes.

Sometimes I think that things have to get worse before they get better.

From what men have told me and just based on human behavior, having a penis is a really important thing for a male (no judge, no hate). How is any of this possibly going to have a good outcome for a lot of people?
 
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