General transgender discussion thread - Take the tranny related debates here.

  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
Serious question: why is transgenderism (the movement, not actual sex dysphoria ie. the mental illness) the hill that all of these lunatics want to die on (even more fervently than usual)? My immediate assumption is because it's more ~*transgressive*~ than anything else due to packing so much "subversive for its own sake" bullshit into itself (which is always going to appeal to some people).
 
I think this is a good theory in practice - but of late, this "happiness" has increasingly required other people being made unhappy, or fearful.

There is algo a giant component of activism which uses violent imagery of killing and maiming TERFs - and anyone who is slightly critical is a TERF.


If you read the Tranny Sideshow thread, which is a massive catalogue of troons openly discussing their motivations, a lot of the transgender urge is very much sex-drive driven, with "gender euphoria" being the euphamism for having an orgasm after female clothes are worn and female spaces are entered into - usually in ways that are aggressively performative.


To be a moral person often requires some kind of pressure to act in a moral way. Anyone (most oftenwomen) who disagrees with certain actions that trans people are doing (displaying genitalia to children for example, over sexualized speech in child friendly areas, entering DV shelters, wanting to hold on to tampons "in case someone asks for one in the toilet") are labeled TERFs and subject to violet rhetoric. Its getting worse and worse.


The moment China realises it can troon out their male athletes a week before the Olympics and enter them into the female competitions will be the end of this line of thinking.
I understand that the death threats and not hearing TERFs out is a problem. I would say that the death threats come from a feeling that it is self defense, that the laws that TERFs push will encourage more laws that will lead to being a trans person not being able to exist, and it isn't like TERFs and people siding with them are free of sin in that area either.

When it comes to hearing them out, I do think that the trans community needs to take these things more seriously. As you said, there are obviously people already abusing open spaces. There will be sick people playing as trans people or just actual trans people who are perverts who will abuse others. There needs to be a balance of calling out bad members and not blanketing a whole group, which I think both trans and TERFs are struggling to do.

Also, there should be more room to debate details because it will involve others. Just because you do not support trans women in women's sports shouldn't immediately make you a TERF because within the community, there's discourse. Of course some may see it as a problem but would be fine to share a bathroom with a trans woman. Again, it's blanketing that is the biggest problem.

When it comes to sports, I am not very knowledgeable and I'd understand if others disagree. I have just seen the trans woman that they claimed would dominate their sports get beat out by biological woman. I don't think it is not impossible for a biological woman not to surpass their trans competitors because they have already done it.
 
Serious question: why is transgenderism (the movement, not actual sex dysphoria ie. the mental illness) the hill that all of these lunatics want to die on (even more fervently than usual)? My immediate assumption is because it's more ~*transgressive*~ than anything else due to packing so much "subversive for its own sake" bullshit into itself (which is always going to appeal to some people).

Libs need to be seen defending a minority persecuted "for who they are" to protect in order to obtain moral validation. The most important moral principle in liberalism is being your true authentic self, and the second most important principle is the right to sexual fulfillment. Fags are no longer oppressed enough to give the same high that defending them gave you in 2007, so now it's got to be trannies.
 
Although to be fair, if normies decry this grooming behaviour its because they are homophobes and terfs(TM) and can be ignored as such....

But if the GAYS, a brotherly member of the Alphabet Army comes out and says that "no your degeneracy has gone too far", then it just hits different. Troons can't immediately be dismissive by appropriating "homophobia". They have to address thier behaviour.
I mean they kinda can though. Trans people will just say that gays are transphobic because even they haven't had to put up with the oppression they have.

Gays are going the way of the nigger, slowly being pushed out of the idea that the left cares for them.
 
When it comes to sports, I am not very knowledgeable and I'd understand if others disagree. I have just seen the trans woman that they claimed would dominate their sports get beat out by biological woman. I don't think it is not impossible for a biological woman not to surpass their trans competitors because they have already done it.
It's very simple. An elite female athlete can certainly beat a mediocre or below average male athlete. However, at equivalent percentile of performance a male will always win. Someone who is in the top 1% of males will always beat the top 1% of females, but a top 1% female could conceivably beat a top 20% male. This is why the trannies we see in sports go from being ranked 500th as men to top 10 or even 1st as "women." Nobody has dominated at a professional level because there just hasn't been a case so far where a truly elite male athlete has trooned out, they've always been bums who've gone from nobodies as men to very competitive as "women".

You have to consider their performance on a relative basis, it's not about winning or not winning. The swimmer "Lia" Thomas for example finished last in one of his NCAA Division 1 swimming finals, so 7 real women beat him in the race. Sounds fair - but it's not, because if he was competing as a male like he should have been, he wouldn't have been in Division 1 in the first place; and he wouldn't have been good enough to reach the end-of-season championship, let alone qualify through the heats and get into the finals to ultimately finish 8th.
 
It's very simple. An elite female athlete can certainly beat a mediocre or below average male athlete. However, at equivalent percentile of performance a male will always win. Someone who is in the top 1% of males will always beat the top 1% of females, but a top 1% female could conceivably beat a top 20% male. This is why the trannies we see in sports go from being ranked 500th as men to top 10 or even 1st as "women." Nobody has dominated at a professional level because there just hasn't been a case so far where a truly elite male athlete has trooned out, they've always been bums who've gone from nobodies as men to very competitive as "women".

You have to consider their performance on a relative basis, it's not about winning or not winning. The swimmer "Lia" Thomas for example finished last in one of his NCAA Division 1 swimming finals, so 7 real women beat him in the race. Sounds fair - but it's not, because if he was competing as a male like he should have been, he wouldn't have been in Division 1 in the first place; and he wouldn't have been good enough to reach the end-of-season championship, let alone qualify through the heats and get into the finals to ultimately finish 8th.
I think the fact that women beat her proves that she is no harm to the sport. This is getting to a fundamental disagreement and I really don't know how to argue against it. I think if we start pinning people in sports against each other based on "fairness," it will get a lot more boring. Some women have higher testosterone, some can build muscle mass faster and some digest proteins better. These are natural things that can give a leg up, so imagine these women all getting banned too. How fun will it be to see a bunch of average women beat each other with average speed and strength? Do you even watch and support any women sports? If she's not destroying the competition, then I think it's fair to say that she's where she belongs. If she does win, it's fair and square.
 
Gays are going the way of the nigger, slowly being pushed out of the idea that the left cares for them.
This is correct, and I'd even expand it to include that this knowledge has been kicking around since the MLK days (there were a lot of quotes from that era where black activists actually said they preferred an openly racist person to a white liberal, because only one was being open and honest to their face.)

Nobody has dominated at a professional level because there just hasn't been a case so far where a truly elite male athlete has trooned out, they've always been bums who've gone from nobodies as men to very competitive as "women".
One of the hallmarks of competition is fairrness.
  • If any female athlete has done steroids EVER, they are immediately banned from competition even if they stopped years ago,
  • But going through male puberty is the biological equivalent of a ten year juicing cycle - why is a man is allowed to compete with women purely on the basis of taking anti-androgens for a couple of months?

I think if we start pinning people in sports against each other based on "fairness," it will get a lot more boring. Some women have higher testosterone, some can build muscle mass faster and some digest proteins better. These are natural things that can give a leg up, so imagine these women all getting banned too. How fun will it be to see a bunch of average women beat each other with average speed and strength? Do you even watch and support any women sports? If she's not destroying the competition, then I think it's fair to say that she's where she belongs. If she does win, it's fair and square.

I'm annoyed at the argument where they trot out a female athlete with high androgens and say "Oh, so-and-so has natural equivalent testosterone to a really Low-T Man" and forget the fucking key word is natural.

Natural. With what you were born with. Transgender people are NOT natural - to achieve their bodies they require drugs and surgery.

What also needs to be considered, we are not talking about a little putt of crazy golf or letting some 6'4" dude compete in the local Roller Derby.

Pro Athletes are dependent on wins and placements for their income. Sports funding is predicated on placing in competitions, university placements in some countries. They have an infinitesimally small period of time where they are able to set themselves up for the rest of their lives. Anything else is cheating.
 
Last edited:
I think the fact that women beat her proves that she is no harm to the sport. This is getting to a fundamental disagreement and I really don't know how to argue against it. I think if we start pinning people in sports against each other based on "fairness," it will get a lot more boring. Some women have higher testosterone, some can build muscle mass faster and some digest proteins better. These are natural things that can give a leg up, so imagine these women all getting banned too. How fun will it be to see a bunch of average women beat each other with average speed and strength? Do you even watch and support any women sports? If she's not destroying the competition, then I think it's fair to say that she's where she belongs. If she does win, it's fair and square.
You weren't lying when you said you aren't knowledgeable about sports. There are plenty of average men who participate in amateur sports for fun and are nowhere near good enough to become professional athletes, whose capabilities are nonetheless world class or Olympic calibre compared to the best female athletes in the world. Does that mean these men should also compete in women's sport? They wouldn't dominate or destroy the competition so that must be where they belong, right? For example there are semi-pro or amateur male tennis players who could get through at least a couple of rounds of a WTA tournament against full-blown tour card holding female professionals.

Sports are segregated on biology for a reason. They aren't segregated on "level of performance" otherwise we would be grouping them as the absolute best males, the not-quite-as-good-but-still-great males, the still-pretty-good males etc. long before we ever get to the level of elite female athletes.

Any argument for trannies in sport is simply an argument to not have any sex-segregation in sports at all.
 
But if the GAYS, a brotherly member of the Alphabet Army comes out and says that "no your degeneracy has gone too far", then it just hits different. Troons can't immediately be dismissive by appropriating "homophobia". They have to address thier behaviour.

Any gay who dares criticize any of this shit will get a much more vicious answer than any straight would.

This is getting to a fundamental disagreement and I really don't know how to argue against it.

Because you can't, but for whatever reason you're intent on white knight depraved people and look like an idiot. Please, shut up and lurk moar, some of your statements are embarrassing to read.
 
I think that article from American Thinker is worth to share about transgenderism.

December 14, 2022

The New England Medical Journal Uses Denial To Advance Transgenderism​

By John Dale Dunn


America’s most prominent medical journal advocates accepting transgenderism, but Neil A. Kurtzman, MD, Emeritus Professor of Internal Medicine at Texas Tech, in "Science Deniers at the New England Journal of Medicine," blows a hole in their bloviations—a solid center mass hole exposing their arrogant, politically motivated nonsense. It helps that Dr. Kurtzman has had a remarkable career in clinical medicine, education, basic research, and administration for more than 40 years. The article and Dr. Kurtzman’s rebuttal help reveal how the woke mob that controls The New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) -- which was once the epicenter of good medical research and practice -- is hijacking American medicine.
Last month, NEJM published an article entitled “Protecting Transgender Health and Challenging Science Denialism in Policy. Writing at American Greatness, Kurtzman doesn’t pull his punches, asserting that the article “is the latest example of using denialism to denigrate any opinion contrary to that of the latest set of experts to claim sovereignty over a controversial subject.”
Denialism now takes its place in the rhetorical armory of the left as another weapon to stifle debate and intimidate those opposing a narrative that the socialist/sex deviancy army pushes to promote the fetishist/transvestite/sexual fluidity movement. It is no coincidence that Boston Children’s Hospital was recently exposed as another medical center engaged in mutilating confused children and adolescents.
We could said then the New England Medical Journal had nuked the fridge...
 
I think the fact that women beat her proves that she is no harm to the sport. This is getting to a fundamental disagreement and I really don't know how to argue against it. I think if we start pinning people in sports against each other based on "fairness," it will get a lot more boring. Some women have higher testosterone, some can build muscle mass faster and some digest proteins better. These are natural things that can give a leg up, so imagine these women all getting banned too. How fun will it be to see a bunch of average women beat each other with average speed and strength? Do you even watch and support any women sports? If she's not destroying the competition, then I think it's fair to say that she's where she belongs. If she does win, it's fair and square.
With competitions, we don't want the outcomes to be too obvious or "deterministic", where based on some features, your average person can easily tell who's going to win. Competitions are more fun from the spectator's point of view if you don't know who's going to win ahead of time.

It's also important to remember that a feature doesn't need to 100% guarantee victory for it to make the game less fun to watch. An adult might beat a child in basketball 80% of the time. That 20% when the child wins doesn't mean that the height/strength difference isn't negatively affecting the game.

That's also how we define fairness. Fairness is when you try to eliminate unearned advantages and focus on the ones that are up to talent or hard work. Fair competitions are more fun to watch.

And you're right, you can continue to nitpick and find smaller and smaller advantages beyond just sex. And indeed, with combat sports, we do have weight classes.

In fact, we could totally continue to make games fairer and fairer by endlessly nitpicking unearned advantages, like the ones you mention.

The main reason why we don't do that is because it subdivides the pool of competitors.

If fairness wasn't balanced by something else, we'd just end up with a million different leagues with a couple of people apiece in them. And that's not fun for different reasons.

So yeah, the goal is: divide competitions up fairly, but get the most bang for your buck.

Sex, age, maybe weight classes and pro vs amateur categories provide a good balance of fairness while still keeping a large pool of competitors in each league.

Sex in particular is a really shitty one to fuck with, because the differences between the sexes are so stark.
 
I think the fact that women beat her proves that she is no harm to the sport. This is getting to a fundamental disagreement and I really don't know how to argue against it. I think if we start pinning people in sports against each other based on "fairness," it will get a lot more boring. Some women have higher testosterone, some can build muscle mass faster and some digest proteins better. These are natural things that can give a leg up, so imagine these women all getting banned too. How fun will it be to see a bunch of average women beat each other with average speed and strength? Do you even watch and support any women sports? If she's not destroying the competition, then I think it's fair to say that she's where she belongs. If she does win, it's fair and square.
So you're saying if a man, who is ranked 450th in the mens division, then competes as a woman, and comes in second, that it's not unfair because there was one woman who beat him?

What if, instead, it was 9 mediocre men, who all placed 2-10 in the womens division. Still fair?

What if it's a formerly regional level man, 20 years past his prime, now placing 3rd in the world in, say, olympic weight lifting?
 
Biggest problem with transgenderism, hands down, is that it does not work. It changes the appearance of people - a little. The personality does not change, and the person still cannot produce children or make their own hormones. Despite what most trans people might think, medically, the last part is actually the most important (producing your own androgens/estrogens). Putting a person on a lifetime of treatment is a HELL of a decision, and doctors avoid it even with more pressing illnesses if they can, it really is a last choice. If people who transitionied could produce their own sex hormones, and it would also change their personality and looks to a higher degree, there would be much less pushback against it. Of course, for someone to naturally produce the opposite sex hormones naturally they would have to DRASTICALLY have their body altered with and that is something no doctor is willing to do. Not to mention that the female reproduction system is easily the second most complicated part of the body (right after the nervous system). The uterus itself has more anatomical and topographicla structures (what doctors and surgeons look for) than most internal organs *put together*.

It is just a pain
 
They wouldn't dominate or destroy the competition so that must be where they belong, right? For example there are semi-pro or amateur male tennis players who could get through at least a couple of rounds of a WTA tournament against full-blown tour card holding female professionals.
Women's Tennis is more about thicc ladies in miniskirts picking the ball off the ground. If you can hit the ball midair with a racket you are better than 80% of female tennis players. You better look good in a miniskirt if you want to make it to the top.
 
Once the scope of troonshit dawned on me I've been trying to figure out how to stop it, and how to prevent its recurrence. It would seem that the truth of the matter, stated plainly, could do plenty to minimize it, but not stop it. It also seems dense bloviating on my part isn't productive, so enough of that.

So, how the fuck do we stop this? How the fuck do we keep this shit from happening again?

In general, I would think that a culture of support, accountability, and inculcating positive self-image for all, as opposed to enablement, teaching learned helplessness, and "you're either a victim or literally Hitler", respectively, would help a lot. Problem is, that's more like the ingredients of a virtuous society than unraveling a particular political movement. Beyond that, I really don't know.

I do know I'm glad I don't have children yet. The thought of protecting a child from this shit scares the hell out of me.
 
Women's Tennis is more about thicc ladies in miniskirts picking the ball off the ground. If you can hit the ball midair with a racket you are better than 80% of female tennis players. You better look good in a miniskirt if you want to make it to the top.
Perhaps somewhat in jest, but it was pointed out in the late 1990s / era 2000s era that the very pretty Anna Kournikova was a prime example - she had never won a singles match but was ranked #8 in the world and kept getting invited to the big matches under a wildcard entry - purely for looks and the publicity she generated.
 
Once the scope of troonshit dawned on me I've been trying to figure out how to stop it, and how to prevent its recurrence. It would seem that the truth of the matter, stated plainly, could do plenty to minimize it, but not stop it. It also seems dense bloviating on my part isn't productive, so enough of that.

So, how the fuck do we stop this?
The biggest useful tool at your disposal for helping someone avoid trooning out (other than arguably faith in God if they have that, but that's a whole different story) likely is research being done into effects of taking puberty blockers and HRT. One the one hand, this is something that we'll be seeing more and more of over time as more troons age and fall apart (or detransition, or 41%), but on the other, perhaps one of the most useful things to be doing right now is archiving any such information and making ways to have it readily accessible to you, so that if you want to voice your well-justified concern you'll be able to immediately back that up at least with reference to studies if not better. The stories of detransitioners are also useful for people who react to things on a more emotional level.
How the fuck do we keep this shit from happening again?
There's a whole rabbit hole to go down on that one, but I think to keep it simple, it needs to be discredited as a false religion which puts a false god as its locus of moral authority. To rephrase that, it needs to be discredited as an ideological cult which abuses the concept of 'equality' for nefarious purposes (namely to pretend that covetousness is not only not a sin or evil, but instead is a totally normal and justified feeling).

In other words, envy needs to be seen as a noteworthy sort of evil again. Other people having success or being happy (or being an attractive member of the other sex) should not in and of itself be a justifiable reason for you to act with envy towards them.
I do know I'm glad I don't have children yet. The thought of protecting a child from this shit scares the hell out of me.
It's hard to say if it'll be worse or better to have children 5 years ago, today, or 5 years from now. Hopefully more regular people have their eyes opened to the shit going on and aren't too cowardly to speak up against that wrongdoing when it comes for their loved ones.
 
There's a whole rabbit hole to go down on that one, but I think to keep it simple, it needs to be discredited as a false religion which puts a false god as its locus of moral authority. To rephrase that, it needs to be discredited as an ideological cult which abuses the concept of 'equality' for nefarious purposes (namely to pretend that covetousness is not only not a sin or evil, but instead is a totally normal and justified feeling).

Oh, it's a cult, and I sperged really hard about it. The issue is that I can't really make that case anywhere except here, because the typical group defenses against wrong think kick in very strongly unless you've established command over the space you want to speak in. There are also the emotional knee-jerk defenses to maintain the programming that pop up on the individual level if you start dismantling someone's mental model of the world.

Even if someone doesn't want to troon, they often now see troons as paragons or living fetishes (in the old sense) to worship, or shrwedly wave them as props because "I look good if I say the best thing ever is good and someone sees me do so."

All that bullshit has to be deprogrammed before there's a chance to get a critical thought through to someone who is programmed. That social bullshit has to be dismantled before one has a chance to speak out loud and be heard by anyone, receptive or otherwise. I'm beginning to think that idiots who follow popularity just won't pay attention to anything else, and the few people who think critically will slowly change as more truth leaks out or people have political fights that end relationships.

Seems the only thing to do is keep speaking up and mocking, anonymously, huh?
 
Rate me with rainbows for this, but I feel like Transgenderism has taken a stronghold in the West because of one reason: it generates a lot of revenue for, and intrinsically benefits, capitalism.

Companies can hire trans women rather than actual women since they don’t have to worry about providing paid/unpaid maternity leave. Trans women (and men too but focusing mainly on women since they’re focused on a lot more than the media) also don’t create generational wealth and due to most trans people being incredibly materialistic, will put that money right back into the system instead of creating a nest egg. Companies can also claim to be fulfilling a diversity quota by hiring trans women, and if cis women complain, these women will be called “TERFS” and be completely vilified. It’s just another way for companies to skate by hiring less women.

Women in general spend a lot more on consumer goods than men, and trans women are no different, however they benefit one industry a lot more than bio women do: the pharmaceutical industry. They create hundreds of millions in revenue yearly from prescriptions for Lupron and hormone blockers alone, imagine how much is being made from SRS surgeries and giving troons cosmetic surgeries to make them true and honest women.

Most of here already know that troons are rabid consumers of pornography, as is the case with many people who seldom venture out of their house and form actual relationships. They probably generate a lot of wealth for an already bloated, multibillion dollar industry.

It’s honestly hilarious seeing all these troons on Reddit who claim to be communist yet also partake in extremely materialistic hobbies like gaming and constantly talk about “supporting sex workers”. “There is no such thing as ethical consumption under capitalism” they’ll lament, meanwhile their home will be filled to the brim with fast food wrappers, sex toys, game consoles, and anime action figures while they sport $10k in tattoos and body mods. They are practically capitalism’s wet dream.
 
Rate me with rainbows for this, but I feel like Transgenderism has taken a stronghold in the West because of one reason: it generates a lot of revenue for, and intrinsically benefits, capitalism.

Companies can hire trans women rather than actual women since they don’t have to worry about providing paid/unpaid maternity leave. Trans women also don’t create generational wealth and due to most trans people being incredibly materialistic, will put that money right back into the system instead of creating a nest egg. Companies can also claim to be fulfilling a diversity quota by hiring trans women, and if cis women complain, these women will be called “TERFS” and be completely vilified. It’s just another way for companies to skate by hiring less women.

Women in general spend a lot more on consumer goods than men, and trans women are no different, however they benefit one industry a lot more than bio women do: the pharmaceutical industry. They create hundreds of millions in revenue yearly from prescriptions for Lupron and hormone blockers alone, imagine how much is being made from SRS surgeries and giving troons cosmetic surgeries to make them true and honest women.

Most of here already know that troons are rabid consumers of pornography, as is the case with many people who seldom venture out of their house and form actual relationships. They probably generate a lot of wealth for an already bloated, multibillion dollar industry.
 
Back
Top Bottom