General transgender discussion thread - Take the tranny related debates here.

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TRA's rhetorics shoved down both rightist and leftist politics is strangely helpful... for lowering the bar so much a sleepyhead in politics class like me could ace. It's repetitive but it's amazing how the leading AGPs have so so much power to brainwash a notable (though small) portion of people it became so easy to memorize their nonsense. Mental nanoplastics.
 
I'm worried about this issue. Because as the age of transition is being pushed younger and younger by the media and the medical profession. They are growing real boobs and real hips, in a few decades the idea of passing or not passing might go right out the window, along with costly surgeries and voice training. Many of these teenagers in this first wave are coming of age. You wonder, at some point, whats going to happen when someone goes on a date and find something downstairs, not what they expected?

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b0x said:
I'm worried about this issue. Because as the age of transition is being pushed younger and younger by the media and the medical profession. They are growing real boobs and real hips, in a few decades the idea of passing or not passing might go right out the window, along with costly surgeries and voice training. Many of these teenagers in this first wave are coming of age. You wonder, at some point, whats going to happen when someone goes on a date and find something downstairs, not what they expected?

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Betting this is still a V-shaped body with slightly wider hips than the average male. Also there are other features that are clockable, like a young boy will never emulate a grown woman. There's a small percentage of trannies that can look like picrel.
 
b0x said:
I'm worried about this issue. Because as the age of transition is being pushed younger and younger by the media and the medical profession. They are growing real boobs and real hips, in a few decades the idea of passing or not passing might go right out the window, along with costly surgeries and voice training. Many of these teenagers in this first wave are coming of age. You wonder, at some point, whats going to happen when someone goes on a date and find something downstairs, not what they expected?
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Well we already know:
1) Straight up rejection
2) Violence possibly causing death
3) Inceldom or only can date other degens
4) A very lucky few find a partner
 
b0x said:
They are growing real boobs and real hips, in a few decades the idea of passing or not passing might go right out the window, along with costly surgeries and voice training.
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Most people still spend enough time in the real world to the point where trannies won't ever pass en masse.

What I mean by this, is that medically, no matter what science does, trannies largely don't pass. Even if you frankenstein them young enough, you can improve the numbers, but improvement in that case just goes from like 0.1% to 1% who pass, and even then they still age like stale milk.

So the only other option is to fuck with what society regards as passing. Fuck with people's heads, erode what culture collectively can perceive as male vs female features.

But I don't think that is possible either. Even with the proliferation of smart phones and fast internet, it's just too expensive to strap VR goggles onto every man, woman and child and execute that plan. People spend a lot of time on the internet, this is true, but not nearly enough time so that we, as a people, forget what is female and what is male.

And no, I wouldn't say any males are growing "real boobs" and "real hips". They're getting like hormone influenced, pre boobs. And they're getting chubby in some ways. But they're largely not getting the significant skeleton changes to make them pass.

You still put them next to a real woman and they're immediately clocked. They're huge. They walk differently. What testosterone remains after suppression or castration still masculinizes them in other ways (again, especially with aging). Only large scale brainwashing will keep the population from noticing this, and we don't have the physical networking infrastructure to pull that off.

I think we'll see some odd couples crop up here and there. Maybe some kid who spends too much time in his bedroom, beats off too too much porn. But they're the exception, most parents, even woke parents, still make their kids go outside from time to time. Idk, I think largely, the kids are alright.

(and yeah, I don't think I'm being hyperbolic in saying that it'll take mass brainwashing to make society forget what male and female are. mass media, even pre internet, can be extraordinarily effective in many ways, but biology is too visceral and tied into all our senses to override without some black mirror tier brainwashing)
 
Marvin said:
You still put them next to a real woman and they're immediately clocked.
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You may say that, and that may be true for the lolcows on here. But in other instances, I think you are giving the average person too much credit really.

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b0x said:
You may say that, and that may be true for the lolcows on here. But in other instances, think you are giving the average person too much credit really.

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Like I said:
Marvin said:
I think we'll see some odd couples crop up here and there.
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I'm not talking about lolcows, who indeed are often the worst examples. But then again, I'm also not talking about the perfect intersection of flawless, ideal genetics (perhaps including early-age hormonal disorders), early medicalization, and then especially, perfect self discipline in making use of that medicalization (diet, exercise, voice training, behavioral modification).

I'm talking your average tranny out in the real world. They're not the worst, but they're also not the best.

They pass pretty poorly. People will be polite to them, but they won't confuse them long term with being female. (dark bar while drunk once in awhile? maybe. not in the office or in a restaurant or on the bus)

Even old school transsexuals weren't perfect in the ways I mentioned above, and they were desperate, coming from a more socially conservative time and were more motivated to try and pass a lot better.

The big influx of trannies we're seeing today, even ones that aren't social fuckups like lolcows are, still aren't trying nearly hard enough to pass. They're being coddled, humored, but none of that is sincere and no one p ushes them hard like past society used to.

We're just going to have a prominent, but small, social class of weirdos that society just works around. Well, until their sports, bathrooms and prison shenanigans prompt a backlash.

Places like Brazil and Thailand are interesting. I don't think Brazilians nor Thai people have a big social confusion about what is male or female. They've just got a kinky section of society. (maybe it's worse in thailand though, asian people being more dainty, I guess?)
 
When you know a bit about anatomy, they're very easy to spot. You need to be looking at the hands and the bone lengths, not boobs and hips especially. Anyway, the tranny movement's obssession with themselves has been eclipsed by everyone else's obssession with them. What's up with that. if you want something to go away don't give it airtime and don't send your kids to "those" schools.
 
B2_Spirit said:
When you know a bit about anatomy, they're very easy to spot. You need to be looking at the hands and the bone lengths, not boobs and hips especially. Anyway, the tranny movement's obssession with themselves has been eclipsed by everyone else's obssession with them. What's up with that. if you want something to go away don't give it airtime and don't send your kids to "those" schools.
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To be honest, people are interested because it’s like watching a horror movie. You know something bad could or is going to happen and you can’t look away. Also, the trans movement has revealed some things that peoples in society haven’t talked about or haven’t noticed.
 
I feel like whenever I read about this bullshit I lose a little bit more sanity. Like none of it makes any logical A to B sense, and nobody seems to be willing to mention this fact except Dave Chapelle and right wing shysters trying to scare christians for money.

I would never tell somebody else how to live, but seeing how all this keeps getting more and more hysterical and divorced from uncomfortable realities I just can't bring myself to be full of love and kindness. Like we're at a point where a significant portion of the trans community thinks that having a "genital preference" is transphobic (If gay men don't like your totally masculine vagina it means they're bigots, clearly). Which is weird and stupid enough, but they also insist on giving little kids hormones and crap and slapping them for life with this before they even know what gender is. I played with barbie dolls as a kid. I wasn't fucking transgendered because I liked some girly shit, I was just a weird little dweeb.

Speaking of Chapelle, I think witnessing the reaction to that really made me sour on all this. Like holy shit the amount of articles and posts I read where the author clearly didn't even watch the thing, but still thought they were allowed to comment on it, was astounding. Just total fucking hivemind. I hate that shit in anybody. An entire monologue by the guy about how nobody is listening to what he's actually saying, and the entire idpol media proceeds to prove him right.

And the thing that irks me, I'm apparently literally killing them by finding this shit ridiculous. Or even just questioning any of it. Or just straight up admitting I don't know everything or know what the solution to anything is (I don't). But Jesus christ you talk to anybody about this crap it's like you have a loaded gun in their face. Like christ bitch just because I don't think giving a 10 year old puberty blockers is a good idea doesn't mean I want to fucking kill you, my god..
 
I heard that tranny jannies are doing it for free.

But serious answer: That a felt 99.99% of them seem to be some kind of sex pest or pedophile says all that needs to be said IMHO.
 
Stuffed Derma said:
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Remember the Evergreen State College fiasco? Relevant KF threads: 1 2

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Cooper Point Journal Asspats Article [archive]


AR Rushet / AR Mannylee Rushet / Ronnie / Veronica
  • Disabled and mad about it
  • Claims to have "alters" so there are definitely more names
  • Serial oversharer, exhibitionist
  • ebegger
  • Facebook
  • "sex work" twitter

Lawrence Walker III / Lauren-Louise Walker
  • Facebook
  • Also active online but WAY less horrifying than AR

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Wow! Another one of my exes is a kiwifarm cow.

So, I have quite the fucking story about this scumbag.

We started dating bc my ex got me very fucked up (kinda like the other KFer I dated... Dont do drugs, kids. Or do them, carefully), I was blacked out. I woke up w/ AR inside me. So much for being "asexual". We had apparently had a threesome with AR and my other ex. Days later, AR invited my ex and I over bc he was sad about his grandma dying. We ended up hanging out a lot, I was pretty strung out & ended up dating him after a few hang outs. Yikes.
Anyway, they were really abusive and awful.
Any time I wanted to go home, he would question how much I cared for him and guilt me. His roommates helped groom me by offering me free pills, knowing I was using at the time.
He regularly got me too fucked up and would molest me or rape me, with Lauren's help getting him into bed.
Any time we had a disagreement, he would go off on me or not talk to me.
I once had to walk 5 miles back to the house from a hospital visit even though Lauren was with us, I'm crippled and need a chair, but only have a cane. It took about two weeks for my pain levels to go back to normal (still agonizing) all bc AR can't take no for an answer.
There was a lot of drama and fucked up shit that went on in our relationship, I tried my best to make them happy, I exhausted myself. He always wanted more. He was so demanding and draining, I felt fucking dead.
His roommates would talk shit about me and helped him abuse me. One of them, Mikayla Droz, had tried to make me houseless in college, using lies and fabrication that made even the head of housing laugh. She was very two-faced and acted like my friend until the break up. The break up is where things get fucking insane.

So, we eventually broke up bc AR was holding onto my money and pretending it was theirs. I asked for my $ back, they went nuts and ended up blocking me. I was starting to realize how abusive they were, which is why I was asking for my $ back (they had it bc I lost my whole wallet & getting everything back took a while).
I thought I was finally free of them, until there was an influx of messages threatening me and saying horrible things from their roommates, Lauren and Mikayla (who are dating and are "lesbians" [I support trans ppl but I feel like AR and Lauren are lying in order to seem more oppressed]), and their friends.
About a week or so later, I was alone at home, there was loud knocking on my door.
Mikayla and Lauren were at my door, demaning I gave back all of AR's "stuff" (gifts they'd given me).
I told them to fuck off, which made them really upset. They kept kicking my door and yelling at me thru the door. I kept yelling the Breaking Bad quote, "this is my own private domicile and I will not be harassed" until they left, vowing to return. I was shaken and went to watch TV and chill.
I didn't call the cops bc I didnt wanna be known as that guy who called the cops on a Black "trans woman".
About a week later, my roommate and I were hanging out and there was more pounding at the door and yelling. It was Lauren and Mikayla and some of their buddies with crowbars and an axe (and more weaponry we didnt see at the time), trying to break my door down and screaming at me about how I'm a horrible piece of shit. My roommate and I told them to leave and threatened them w the cops. They didn't care and kept trying to get in. My roommate ended up opening the door to pepperspray them. This didnt deter them, and Mikayla kept trying to taze my roommate while I panicked and called the cops. My roommate managed to get the door closed and grabbed the water we had boiling for tea and poured it over the gang of rowdy idiots. This finally caused them to run off. The cops came and saw there were huge gashes in the door, proof they were trying to pry the door open. It was really scary. I really wished I was still using drugs stronger than weed that day and the other time they tried to break in for sure lmfao.
I tried to get restraining orders, but they sadly were too expensive.
Mikayla tried to get my roommate fired from his job for pouring boiling water on her, and his jobs response was essentially "yeah we arent firing someone for defending himself".
We live in a stand your ground state and I truly regret not having a gun. Luckily these fuckers havent come around again, but they still whine about me daily and act like Im evil for defending myself.
These people are as entitled and evil as they seem online. Truly make me wanna vomit.

I dont date horrible people anymore, I learned my worth and have been staying away from insane middle aged rapists. But I thought y'all would enjoy this story, exposing Cows Ive met irl and suffered at the hands/greasy paws of is somehow healing to me (idk I guess talking shit is helping me process).

Anyways sorry if this isn't well written, my insomnia has kept me awake for the past two days and Im so out of it.
 
feedtheoctopus said:
Speaking of Chapelle, I think witnessing the reaction to that really made me sour on all this. Like holy shit the amount of articles and posts I read where the author clearly didn't even watch the thing, but still thought they were allowed to comment on it, was astounding. Just total fucking hivemind.
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It's deliberate. All social media and search results have algorithms that can be gamed. What's most important is people see many headlines, and it gives the impression of a false consensus. By showering this content down on the public, making sure it reaches the top, and cancelling/deplatforming everyone else it creates a false impression that everyone agrees.

Doing this to J.K Rowling was a mistake - since she couldn't be bullied into taking the letter down, all you had to do was tell people to read it. Still some portion of people didn't feel the need because they felt they already knew what she said. Even though they didn't.

Skeptic magazine's next issue is going to revisit gender and sex. If it's not a polite but total take down of "gender is a social construct" and "sex is a spectrum", game over.
 
TheBigZee said:
It's deliberate. All social media and search results have algorithms that can be gamed. What's most important is people see many headlines, and it gives the impression of a false consensus. By showering this content down on the public, making sure it reaches the top, and cancelling/deplatforming everyone else it creates a false impression that everyone agrees.

Doing this to J.K Rowling was a mistake - since she couldn't be bullied into taking the letter down, all you had to do was tell people to read it. Still some portion of people didn't feel the need because they felt they already knew what she said. Even though they didn't.

Skeptic magazine's next issue is going to revisit gender and sex. If it's not a polite but total take down of "gender is a social construct" and "sex is a spectrum", game over.
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Gender and sex both have a lot to do with culture and environment, that much is obvious. If anything our problem is the opposite, people see a little boy who likes girly shit and now they just straight up label him trans and put him in a box for life. Because the idea that you can be a boy, identify yourself as a boy, and still like girl shit is incomprehensible to a culture that views gender as biologically hardwired. I also think any bisexual person can tell you first hand that sexuality is absolutely not static. Most days I find absolutely nothing attractive about men, other days hubba hubba. Take that as you will. But no, "always the same" doesn't touch it. And I definitely developed in different ways as I got older. Me as a horny 13 year old has virtually nothing in common with horny present day me. The faggotry mostly came later. I figure my experience with that is one reason I don't really buy into the "born this way" shit. People are complicated, it doesn't delegitimize them to acknowledge that they are complicated. I wish I was that simple, would have saved me a lot of angst and gotten me laid more.

With Rowling I feel she started off having a legitimate point ("Biological women have different needs and experiences then trans women and that should be acknowledged") and then went off into paranoia land ("trans women want to rape me"). I'm sure some of them do, like some of everybody wants to rape you, but you get my point.

Marvin said:
Most people still spend enough time in the real world to the point where trannies won't ever pass en masse.

What I mean by this, is that medically, no matter what science does, trannies largely don't pass. Even if you frankenstein them young enough, you can improve the numbers, but improvement in that case just goes from like 0.1% to 1% who pass, and even then they still age like stale milk.

So the only other option is to fuck with what society regards as passing. Fuck with people's heads, erode what culture collectively can perceive as male vs female features.

But I don't think that is possible either. Even with the proliferation of smart phones and fast internet, it's just too expensive to strap VR goggles onto every man, woman and child and execute that plan. People spend a lot of time on the internet, this is true, but not nearly enough time so that we, as a people, forget what is female and what is male.

And no, I wouldn't say any males are growing "real boobs" and "real hips". They're getting like hormone influenced, pre boobs. And they're getting chubby in some ways. But they're largely not getting the significant skeleton changes to make them pass.

You still put them next to a real woman and they're immediately clocked. They're huge. They walk differently. What testosterone remains after suppression or castration still masculinizes them in other ways (again, especially with aging). Only large scale brainwashing will keep the population from noticing this, and we don't have the physical networking infrastructure to pull that off.

I think we'll see some odd couples crop up here and there. Maybe some kid who spends too much time in his bedroom, beats off too too much porn. But they're the exception, most parents, even woke parents, still make their kids go outside from time to time. Idk, I think largely, the kids are alright.

(and yeah, I don't think I'm being hyperbolic in saying that it'll take mass brainwashing to make society forget what male and female are. mass media, even pre internet, can be extraordinarily effective in many ways, but biology is too visceral and tied into all our senses to override without some black mirror tier brainwashing)
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I love it whenever I point out that you can pretty much always tell a trans person when you see one and people always respond with "BUT WHAT ABOUT THIS HUH!?" and it's a picture of some instagram model who's clearly had massive amounts of plastic surgery. And that's the kicker, it takes massive amounts of plastic surgery to really come close to passing for the vast, vast, majority of people. And that's its own uncanny valley shit. And it's not like you can't pick it out if you look close either.

I don't know why people can't just bring themselves to admit that when it comes to some things you just are what nature made you. Identity is one thing, but let's not pretend it is the same as physical reality.
b0x said:
I'm worried about this issue. Because as the age of transition is being pushed younger and younger by the media and the medical profession. They are growing real boobs and real hips, in a few decades the idea of passing or not passing might go right out the window, along with costly surgeries and voice training. Many of these teenagers in this first wave are coming of age. You wonder, at some point, whats going to happen when someone goes on a date and find something downstairs, not what they expected?
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Trans people can already tell you that: they get the shit kicked out of them. It's a cliche in that community, meet somebody at a bar, going well, then Mr. Johnson comes out and "I'M NOT GAY" rage takes over and ruins everything and probably leaves you in a ditch. This is common enough that when trans people complain about violence its mostly coming from scenarios like this rather then just them walking around in dresses these days. Most people don't give a shit about a person on the street they don't know. Anybody, not just trans people, is more likely to be attacked by somebody they actually know or have some sort of involvement with.

It's one reason I actually kind of worry about the massive amounts of trans people I see on dating apps who despite very obviously being trans try to pass themselves off as bio woman because they want to meet a straight guy. Ironically I don't think they appreciate what a dangerous game they're playing is. I figure it's because most of these people are younger and don't have the experiences people like Silvia Rivera did and don't appreciate how quickly things go south if you play with a nominally straight guys sexual hangups. This is not something you spring on somebody out of nowhere. You're basically lying to the other person, first of all. Second actual straight men DO NOT want to be involved with you, and if you make them question themselves they'll take it out on you. Your identity is one thing, you straight men have their own. And they don't react well when you undermine it. Hell, that's pretty much the only reason society in general cares about any of this meaningless bullshit.
 
Is there a book on transgender people, with data/science/facts behind it's claims, that transgender people are okay with?

I see lots of lists of books that are allegedly transphobic and hateful - which I haven't personally found when I read them - so I'm just wondering if there's some alternatives they'd even be able to point to. I've tried searching for it repeatedly, and all that comes up are autobiographical accounts, anecdotal stories, manifesto-type essays and awkward, debatable attempts to reframe the past (drag acts, "third gender" tribes) in ways that support their beliefs.

All of the openly supportive, Twitter-addict doctors and therapists don't seem to have written anything, nor do they have any recommended reading lists. It's just long lists of books by doctors and mental health professionals that apparently are unacceptable to read, or even exist.

Presumably there's at least one scientific/data-proven book out there they can point to?
 
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