Gardening and Plant Thread

[Yandex Captcha Solver]

What's the best way to germinate seeds? Just asking if I ever try to do it with storebought peppers.

For best germination of seeds just get a plastic bag, a wet paper towel, and stick them all together in a warm spot. I hit nearly 100% germination with heirloom seeds, and then I transplant. It's kind of a pain in the ass to do it that way. You can also just get a humidity dome and some seed starting soil for an easier time.

If you germinate store bought produce seeds, you'll most likely be growing a hybrid variety that isn't stable. They may be sterile, can't produce seeds, and will drift away from trait from the produce you bought. I'd try it with farmer market stuff as it's more likely to be heirloom, not so much stuff you grab at the store.

 

[Valstrax]

For best germination of seeds just get a plastic bag, a wet paper towel, and stick them all together in a warm spot. I hit nearly 100% germination with heirloom seeds, and then I transplant. It's kind of a pain in the ass to do it that way. You can also just get a humidity dome and some seed starting soil for an easier time.

If you germinate store bought produce seeds, you'll most likely be growing a hybrid variety that isn't stable. They may be sterile, can't produce seeds, and will drift away from trait from the produce you bought. I'd try it with farmer market stuff as it's more likely to be heirloom, not so much stuff you grab at the store.

Thanks for the feedback! I'll probably visit the farmer's market down the road when the warm season hits to hopefully pick up some goods to try growing my own. Whenever we try to grow cherry tomatoes, the squirrels always eat them and it really blows.

 

[Yandex Captcha Solver]

Thanks for the feedback! I'll probably visit the farmer's market down the road when the warm season hits to hopefully pick up some goods to try growing my own. Whenever we try to grow cherry tomatoes, the squirrels always eat them and it really blows.

You'll need to prep tomato seeds for planting as the pulp protects the seeds from sprouting inside the fruit. Just search "How to save tomato seeds". I would suggest just finding some cheap heirloom tomato seeds on eBay to simplify things and worry about saving seeds towards the end of the season. Pepper seeds are very easy to save on the contrary.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

the wife has started doing planting and stuff out on the patio of our apartment, paying attention to soil mixes and nutrients and planting times and important things
to be a jerk I've taken an onion that started growing because we didn't eat it in time and just put it out there on sitting the cement as my contribution to the effort

 

[NoReturn]

to be a jerk I've taken an onion that started growing because we didn't eat it in time and just put it out there on sitting the cement as my contribution to the effort

Onion flowers are actually kind of nice and pretty, though:

 

[FlipTopBox]

This year I've decided that I want to start seeds myself indoors instead of just buying plants from the store. Haven't gotten great results when trying to start seeds in previous years, but I feel like I'm experienced enough now that I should be able to do it right this time. I have tomatoes (cherry and beefsteak), peppers (bell peppers and various hot peppers), onions, and oregano planted in little pots placed in a tray. The seeds are a few years old so hopefully they are still viable. And I also have to make sure that the cats don't eat the sprouts either. They've already fucked up multiple houseplants.

 

[CEO of Gay]

So, for some people, the growing season is already well underway, and cool season crops like peas, cabbage, or lettuce are growing like mad. Others are still dealing with freezing temperatures, and are starting their tomatoes under grow lights to be ready for when the frost danger has passed.

Who's growing what this year?

Onion flowers are actually kind of nice and pretty, though:
View attachment 7052595

and edible and flavorful. You can fry them directly, or you can use them to infuse cooking oils with a onion-y flavor and fun purple color. But most of the time, I leave them for the bees. The bees benefit from having food sources early in the season, and I benefit from pollinators learning my garden is place that will have flowers available for them through the whole warm season.

Thanks for the feedback! I'll probably visit the farmer's market down the road when the warm season hits to hopefully pick up some goods to try growing my own. Whenever we try to grow cherry tomatoes, the squirrels always eat them and it really blows.

Honestly, if you're just getting started with growing plants from seed, I recommend getting seeds from a garden store. The seeds that you buy are already processed, preserved, and ready to be sowed. You don't have to worry about figuring out how to harvest the seeds, process them, and dry and preserve them for next season. The garden store will also have pots, starting soil, heat mats, grow lamps, starter fertilizers, and other tools to make it easier to start plants from seed.

Don't get me wrong, saving seeds from last years crop to plant the next year is a good thing, but harvesting, processing and preserving seeds to they can be used next year is a whole set of skills unto itself. Start with germinating the plants you like to grow from seed first. Once you've got that down, then work on harvesting seeds for those plants and preserving them for the next season.

 

[Sperg_rancher]

I found a neat website that tells you when to start seeds indoors.

https://backyardfarmingconnection.com/seed-starting-calculator/

You put in what you want to grow, and your last frost date, and It'll tell you when to start seeding, and when to transplant to the garden.

lo-and behold I'm already late to the party for multiple things I wanted to grow this year. That's no issue though, better late than never.

 

[waffle]

I put out peas, carrots, turnips, poppies, cabbage, lettuce and broccoli yesterday from seed. I also started various peppers, egg plants, cucumbers, watermelons summer squash, and pumpkins all indoors indoors to replace all that stuff when it gets too hot for it in early May.


I need to get some good blackberry cains to start all around the fence.

 

[CEO of Gay]

I found a neat website that tells you when to start seeds indoors.

https://backyardfarmingconnection.com/seed-starting-calculator/

You put in what you want to grow, and your last frost date, and It'll tell you when to start seeding, and when to transplant to the garden.

lo-and behold I'm already late to the party for multiple things I wanted to grow this year. That's no issue though, better late than never.

One of the nice side effects of the legalization of marijuana, is that indoor growing tools and supplies have gotten cheap to keep up with demand. You could spend maybe a hundred bucks on a small "hydroponic" grow tent and some lights for it. A bigger 4'x8'x80" tent, a couple wire-frame shelves, some heavy-duty reusable seedling pots, and enough LED grow lights to trip a breaker could be had for less than a thousand. Do a search for "grow tent" on Amazon and you'll find plenty of options.

Given that plants in little 4" pots from the big-box stores cost anywhere from $7-10 these days, the grow tent, lights and pots will become worth it once you are starting your own seeds year after year. As a bonus, you're likely to end up with extra plants you can sell to the neighbors. My mother made a couple hundred bucks selling my surplus tomatoes and peppers to the neighbors last year.

But don't think you have to spend a lot of money to start your own seeds. An egg carton could serve as a seedling tray, and paper/plastic cups can serve as little starting pots. Anything made out of clear plastic or glass, whether a water bottle, pickle jar, or saran wrap can serve as a greenhouse cover. You can find other things that can be pressed into service if you look.

The one place I will recommend spending money is on grow lights. Get the most powerful LED grow lights you can afford and fit into your grow setup. Young plants need a lot of light. Easier to have an overly powerful light and dim it down or raise it higher above the plants than to produce leggy, sickly seedlings

 

[SphinxItOver]

One of the nice side effects of the legalization of marijuana, is that indoor growing tools and supplies have gotten cheap to keep up with demand.

Just wanted to mention the state sales of seized property from illegal ops is also cheap.

 

[Flan Handler]

One of the nice side effects of the legalization of marijuana, is that indoor growing tools and supplies have gotten cheap to keep up with demand.

Hilariously, I was shopping for seed starting gear last year and reading the comments and trying to figure out why there were like 30 people complaining about pinprick light escaping through the grow tent zipper, and my husband had to explain that this is for people growing pot plants in their bedrooms lol.

I spent some money on a proper set up with an indoor growing tent, vent fans, lights, the whole nine yards. But now that I have it it’s made this seed season easy indeed. So far I’ve just started onions, shallots, celeriac and hot peppers. They are doing great! Just about to start sweet peppers

We had just started getting some nice weather and a few weeks of melting snow, then BAM another foot of snow and another few weeks in the deep freeze.

My only consolation is that these horrible winters are so intense we don’t have raccoons, let alone rats. There are a whole bunch of pests that don’t do well here.

Of course, we have like 100 frost free days so we need to work smarter, but I have to remind myself lest I spend my day open mouth crying outside in a blizzard.

This year I am going to build a little in situ high tunnel for the peppers, tomatoes and a couple of melon plants. I was able to grow the plants last year but the peppers especially needed just a few more heat units to thrive. The tomatoes did great in the open but I’d like them to ripen a bit earlier when I can get help processing them lol.

I have been watching my hypewoman, Ashley from Gardening in Canada, who has great content for general science-based gardening, especially for us cold climate people but lots of good stuff generally.

I got my seeds a few weeks ago from my fave local seed producer, and I’ve got some microdwarf tomatoes to test this year.

Also in Biting Off More Than I Can Chew, Probably News- I ordered my baby Bielefelder chicks and they will be here in late April. I need to build the coop but my local sawmill guy will deliver the lumber as soon as the snow melts.

I am expanding my garden beds- this year I am going to try tillage radish + crimson clover as cover crops in the new areas to break up my shitty clay soil.

I also spend a bunch of time trying to convince my husband that we should spend all our Canadian dollaroos on my gardening/farming gear before they turn to worthless toilet paper. He is, terrifyingly, more onboard than I like.

People in more agreeable climates- how’s your spring going, what have you got growing? Fellow arctic enjoyers, how are you hanging in there until winter releases its last icy grip?

 

[CEO of Gay]

Hilariously, I was shopping for seed starting gear last year and reading the comments and trying to figure out why there were like 30 people complaining about pinprick light escaping through the grow tent zipper, and my husband had to explain that this is for people growing pot plants in their bedrooms lol.

Yeah, it turns out that the entire Cannabis genus is incredibly sensitive to light, and this can affect things like sex determination, and how much of the various psychoactive compounds the plant produces . Yeah, hippies like cannabis because it gets them stoned, but it turns out the agricultural departments at universities also really love the plant. The plant is super sensitive to envronmental conditions. Things like overall light levels, light timing, light spectral balance, temperature, humidity, and minute changes in soil nutrition, can have huge effects on how the plant grows. That makes it a fantastic research model for when scientists want to ask questions like, "Do the different colors of light affect how the plant grows, and if so, how?"

Of course, we have like 100 frost free days so we need to work smarter, but I have to remind myself lest I spend my day open mouth crying outside in a blizzard.

This year I am going to build a little in situ high tunnel for the peppers, tomatoes and a couple of melon plants. I was able to grow the plants last year but the peppers especially needed just a few more heat units to thrive. The tomatoes did great in the open but I’d like them to ripen a bit earlier when I can get help processing them lol.

Something that might be worth checking out for extending your growing season is the Wall-o-Water. I found out about these when combing through university Extension Office websites for information on tomatoes. The Wall-o-Water works because water, being clear, permits light through to the young plants, while simultaneously getting warmed up during the day by what little sun it does absorb. Then at night, all the heat that the water absorbed has to bleed off before it can freeze, and so everything underneath the Wall-o-Water, the plant and the air surrounding it, stay warm and protected from the cold nighttime air.

I am expanding my garden beds- this year I am going to try tillage radish + crimson clover as cover crops in the new areas to break up my shitty clay soil.

If you don't already, get some compost piles going. Compost will really help improve the quality of your local soils, by improving both drainage and moisture retention, and the ability to hold onto nutrients that your plants need. Since you're in the Great Frozen North, it might be useful to get an insulated compost bin, like the Hotbin or similar. An insulated bin can be kept going between 40-60C year-round, even in the sub-freezing dead of winter, so long as it is kept fed.

If you do get an insulated bin, divert all of your kitchen and yard waste to it. Yes, even the stuff you normally aren't supposed to send to compost because it will get stinky and attract pests, like meats, fats, and bones. The great thing about insulated bins is that because they can hold 40-60C, they can more quickly break down slowly-digesting waste like meats and fats. About the only thing I would hesitate to send to compost would be diseased plants, like say, tomatoes that got killed by fusarium wilt. For something like that, I would have to research what temperatures are guranteed to kill off the pathogens, and whether I had enough nitrogen-rich kitchen/yard waste on hand to keep the bin fed enough to maintain those temperatures long enough to ensure the pathogen fungus/bacteria/virus/etc had been killed off.

People in more agreeable climates- how’s your spring going, what have you got growing? Fellow arctic enjoyers, how are you hanging in there until winter releases its last icy grip?

Like @waffle, above, I have started peas, turnips, carrots, and other early-spring plants that can handle a little cold. My warm season crops are still in the grow tent. I've only started my tomatoes and peppers right now, and some of the slower herbs like oregano and rosemary. I'll be waiting another week to start my cucumber-family (squash, cucumbers, mellons) plants. Their roots are very fragile and sensitive, and they won't grow as well if you let them get too big and rootbound in the small pot you start the seeds in before transplanting them outdoors.

 

[Flan Handler]

An insulated bin can be kept going between 40-60C year-round, even in the sub-freezing dead of winter, so long as it is kept fed.

Never thought of that- I run hot compost all summer, if I use my chickens and woodchipper correctly I can pump out a yard of compost every ten days in the summer.

In the winter, I keep garbage cans full of sawdust by the back door- I put my scraps in one, add a handful of sawdust, rinse, repeat all winter and it just sits there frozen and not smelling until spring, then it boosts my first batch of hot compost and the cycle of life continues

I love seeing the snow melt on my compost pile all winter!

Something that might be worth checking out for extending your growing season is the Wall-o-Water.

This seems cool! I kind of fake this effect with water jugs and big rocks as heat sinks in my warm weather crops, this would be a little more targeted for sure

 

[Anasa Tristis]

If you germinate store bought produce seeds, you'll most likely be growing a hybrid variety that isn't stable. They may be sterile, can't produce seeds, and will drift away from trait from the produce you bought. I'd try it with farmer market stuff as it's more likely to be heirloom, not so much stuff you grab at the store.

That “instability” could be cross pollination. Growers who grow for market don’t isolate their plants the way that growers who grow for seed production do, so crossing happens. Pumpkins and squash are notorious for that. Peppers and tomatoes are billed as “self pollinating” but if you have the right native bees around, they can and will cross with others nearby.

As to the “sterility” of seeds from grocery produce, that happens mainly because the seed is not mature when the produce is picked for eating. Viable seed comes from fully ripe (and usually past prime) produce for the most part. Seeds from green peppers, summer squash, or picked early (and then gassed to redness!) tomatoes are not going to germinate.

I’ve saved seed from hybrids that I grew myself from commercial seed and have never had any problems. Many are remarkably stable. They look, grow and taste just like the originals. There may be minor differences sometimes, but nothing extraordinary. Or inedible.

It’s hard to say this without sounding like a presumptive asshole, but I’ll try anyway: Don’t believe the hype about hybrids being bad and the supposed superiority of heirlooms. That's just heirloom marketing talk. Heirlooms are just open pollinated veggies or flowers with a pretty story. Some hybrids being developed now are being bred for taste (see Row 7 Seeds) and/or for better nutrition, like the Raven F1 zukes. The early days of hybridizing for just looks and surviving shipping are long gone. Thankfully hybridizing for disease resistance is ongoing, as we're getting more in that department with poor ag practices and climate change all the time. I have fusarium and verticillium in my soil and I’ve found that heirlooms are too inbred and weak to make it even halfway through the season sometimes. They shrivel and die from vascular collapse or they set fruit that get lesions and rot out before ripening. So I love a well developed hybrid, myself. I wouldn’t be able to grow cukes, muskmelons, or tomatoes without ‘em. And I happily pay the higher cost for hybrids because creating one takes skill and years, and their yields, vigor and reliability can't be beat. (Which is why most farmer's market growers grow hybrids and not heirlooms. Ask one sometime. When you get one shot at a harvest because what you're growing is going to take 100+ days to hit sellability, you want better odds at planting time.)

Heirlooms, to be kept “pure” are deliberately inbred. Which is arguably against Nature which constantly seeks new genetic material. Before the creation of the grocery store and the industrialization of agriculture (and yes, modern hybridizing techniques) farmers used to practice “landrace” growing. They'd have a mix of different varieties all crossing with each other out in the field. With all that promiscuity goin' on, harvests were never uniform and pretty. But nobody expected (or demanded) that back then. Nowadays if a single cuke, zuke, or onion in the bin doesn't look exactly like the others, the buyer thinks that there's something wrong with it. And won't buy it. Old school onions were like garlic and had multiple cloves under their skins, like some shallots still do today. But buyers preferred round, single clove (for lack of a better term) onions, with nice concentric rings to slice and chop so breeders and growers accommodated them.

I’m getting on too much of a sperg here. But just keep in mind that all the heirlooms of today were once a product of some sort of natural and accidental cross pollination (and/or gene activity, like "sports") that was noticed and nurtured and then later was prevented by various means from doing what it would do naturally, which is to seek fresh genetic material and evolutionary change. (Not that that was 100% successful either. I'd bet a million bucks that today's Mortgage Lifter tomato or Horace Pippin's Fish pepper is not exactly the same as the ones that were originally selected and grown decades ago. When ya think about it, that's impossible. Crossing happens, adaptations to soil and weather, etc.)

Now GMOs are evil abominations and should be banned. But man made hybrids are not all that different from Nature made ones. They're just deliberate and controlled cross pollination with specific goals in mind for the offspring. And thankfully the goals have changed to what moddern growers and eaters want; better yields, better flavor, better nutrition and better disease resistance.

 

[CEO of Gay]

I wish I could give you both an "informative" and "agree" sticker at the same time.

Growers who grow for market don’t isolate their plants the way that growers who grow for seed production do, so crossing happens. Pumpkins and squash are notorious for that

Indeed. One year, a neighbor a few houses down grew pumpkins. Starting in the mid-to-late summer, so did my zucchini vines. That was my introduction to the fact that a lot of common food crops are in fact the same species, or closely related species in the same genus that hybridize readily. An aside, a Thanksgiving pumpkin pie made from fresh pumpkin tastes better than one made from canned pumpkin puree.

There's a reason I have not bothered to save seeds from most of the tomatoes, peppers, squash or cucumbers I grow. Growing so many different varieties in close proximity as is necessary in an urban garden means crossing will happen. I am forced by the layout of my property to have cayenne peppers next to bells, beefsteak tomatoes next to cherries, zucchini next to pumpkin, pickling cucumbers next to slicers.

Thankfully hybridizing for disease resistance is ongoing, as we're getting more in that department with poor ag practices and climate change all the time. I have fusarium and verticillium in my soil and I’ve found that heirlooms are too inbred and weak to make it even halfway through the season sometimes.

Unfortunately, I have a similar problem. Optimizing my garden layout ideal light for each crop has allowed verticillium to develop, and I am forced to move crops from their ideal locations to starve the verticilium of hosts. It's likely the spores have spread from just the problematic beds, and I am going all hybrid this year to ensure the verticilium doesn't get worse and spread further.

 

[Opal Mermaid]

Everyone in this thread should make a bog setup and grow carnivorous plants. It's a bit of a challenge at first but they're so cool. I've had Venus flytraps, sundews, and both types of pitcher plants (Western and Eastern).

You will never experience the sociopathic joy of feeding one a live insect otherwise.

 

[God's strongest milkman]

I have this big burn pit I throw all the wood on my property into like fallen trees, rotten wood scrap, old wood pieces that I can't use, leaves and pine needles, cut down yaupon, that sort of thing.

Whenever it gets nice and full I dig out atleast a half dozen wheelbarrows of extremely ash laden dirt which I spread through my garden. It really ups my potassium in the dirt.

The only real issue I have is that I live in the middle of nowhere which is a problem for one reason. Manure and compost are expensive. When I lived in the city you would find tons of people begging you take that shit away for free. Rich nice dirt with all kind of nutrients.

But out here where there are farms it's worth something and so if I want it cheap or free I have to get a big trailer and drive a couple of hours.

I spread my chicken crap into the garden too but until I get some pigs I won't have enough to make my own manure.

Anyone have this issue or a solution to it?

 

[Rakovnik]

But out here where there are farms it's worth something and so if I want it cheap or free I have to get a big trailer and drive a couple of hours.

I spread my chicken crap into the garden too but until I get some pigs I won't have enough to make my own manure.

I think you already have the best idea, trucking it in from a place you get it free. I would suggest checking prices for a tri-axle or semi dump to haul it for you but you'd need to make sure the place you're getting it from has a loader that can lift high enough.

If they don't have a large enough loader on site then it's not worth renting one plus trucking, I'd say you're better off shopping around for the biggest dump trailer you can pull

 

[Anasa Tristis]

I wish I could give you both an "informative" and "agree" sticker at the same time.

Thankee, fren. The whole "heirlooms good/hybrids evil" thing gets my fur up a bit. Partially because I bought into it for a few years and wasted a lot of time, money and effort trying to get good results from woefully inbred seed planted in diseased soil. One day it dawned on me too, that all those zillions of heirloom tomato varieties had to come about from accidental (or even secretly deliberate, LOL) hybridization. Heirlooms are are just stable-ish hybrids. Otherwise, we'd be living in a One Tomato World.
And don't get me wrong, I grow OP heirloom varieties too. There's even a handful of OP/heirloom 'maters that can beat F & V. Marglobe is one. Seeds from Italy's Red Pear, (which is not a small and pear shaped cherry, but a full sized meaty and ribby slicer that's also great for sauce) is too. Both are tasty and highly recommended.

That was my introduction to the fact that a lot of common food crops are in fact the same species, or closely related species in the same genus that hybridize readily. An aside, a Thanksgiving pumpkin pie made from fresh pumpkin tastes better than one made from canned pumpkin puree.

I grow a "moschata" winter squash (PA Dutch crookneck, a big long necked butternut) and a "pepo" summer squash (Lemon- which is both a pick early to eat and let go to become a small orange pumpkin later) next to each other with no fear of their crossing because they're different species. I think I'm on my 5th or 6th season with them, from saved seeds.

Fun fact: Libby's canned "pumpkin" is actually a buff colored moschata winter squash called Dickinson.

crossing will happen

I got some big (4x4 maybe?) fine mesh bags from Bezos Mart to keep my peppers from crossing last season. (I used to landrace them but I found that hots and sweets were crossing too much and I wasn't thrilled with the results.) You do need to pull them off and make sure you're not trapping aphids inside now and then, but they were inexpensive and look like they'll last a few seasons.