Frostpunk 2 - It needed more time in the oven. story is bugged beyond belief.

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ATandTism said:
with the fantastic 'The City Must Survive' playing in the background of the finale.
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I think the devs definitely failed to realize that one of the big draws of FP1 was the atmosphere. The music is memorable, the UI is very stylized yet extremely clear and readable, being able to click on citizens, the random events and notes, they all made you feel closer to the game and its premise. Also having despite the world being snow/white, having a mostly black UI made it softer on the eye. The UI in FP2 is unclear and very bland, the music is meh, they could have replicated the feel of closeness if they had done more with the factions, but the game really lacks any atmosphere.
 
Fig Kommandant said:
I think the devs definitely failed to realize that one of the big draws of FP1 was the atmosphere. The music is memorable, the UI is very stylized yet extremely clear and readable, being able to click on citizens, the random events and notes, they all made you feel closer to the game and its premise. Also having despite the world being snow/white, having a mostly black UI made it softer on the eye. The UI in FP2 is unclear and very bland, the music is meh, they could have replicated the feel of closeness if they had done more with the factions, but the game really lacks any atmosphere.
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They also could have just churned out like 10 expansion packs for FP1.

Literally no reason not to do that instead of making a whole new game.
 
Slap47 said:
They also could have just churned out like 10 expansion packs for FP1.

Literally no reason not to do that instead of making a whole new game.
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dlc always sells less, a sequel is a complete $40+ sale riding the brand name.
 
Need for Sped said:
think they relied way too much on the playerbase picking up the slack for the lack of content.
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The original had fuck all for content too, the other 3 scenarios were hilariously small, like dividing up the main campaign.

But at least it was something. Endless mode blows now too and for all the faction bullshit, all of them are just rebranded versions of the same two opposing groups and the roadmap means you're better off waiting for a year than replaying

ZMOT said:
dlc always sells less, a sequel is a complete $40+ sale riding the brand name.
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That's why they go the crusader kings route and put less and less work in
 
⋖ cørdion ⋗ said:
>Warband pioneered early access
>Bannerlord milked it to death in the worst way possible
>Frostpunk was the first real strategic and punishing builder
>Frostpunk 2 absolutely dropped the fucking ball; runs and plays like shit
Gaming really is going down the shitter, huh
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Poles and Turks are destined to share the same destiny I guess.

Although to be fair - I think the bigger issue is that companies feel the need to be constantly scaling up their games and eventually just hit a brick wall. Frostpunk 1 is a very small and short game. Warband is a very simple game. These attributes work to their benefit.
 
Slap47 said:
Literally no reason not to do that instead of making a whole new game.
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The engine they used on FP1 was hitting the limits already, when you played endless they had to cap population to 600, but even then if you built too many buildings it would crash every five minutes.
 
Fig Kommandant said:
The engine they used on FP1 was hitting the limits already, when you played endless they had to cap population to 600, but even then if you built too many buildings it would crash every five minutes.
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Frostpunk was good because of it had challenging gameplay that complimented an interesting narrative. Scaling it up is not really the issue.
 
Slap47 said:
Frostpunk was good because of it had challenging gameplay that complimented an interesting narrative. Scaling it up is not really the issue.
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The problem lies with the way that they scaled it up by making things easier/dumbed down:
  • City planning no longer matters, heat zones barely matter and are just a small heating demand reduction when districts are clumped together or in specific tiles. Heat itself is just a basic resource now that is produced by the generator and consumed by districts. Buildings are now additions built into districts instead of being individual, so the city building aspect is mostly just placing districts everywhere followed by spamming buildings inside of them.
  • Oil is now the new liquid gold, but from my time playing it completely eliminated the struggle to keep the City heated since once you researched the extraction buildings you would have more than you could burn.
  • The population eventually outgrows what you can produce and is a massive scale up from FP1, instead of a couple hundred you'll have 5/6 figures worth of people in your city.
  • The wasteland is a much bigger place to explore, but it doesn't feel as engaging or immersive as FP1
  • The population is split into workers and non-workers, skilled workers/engineers aren't a thing anymore and automatons are no longer a unique and valuable unit to salvage from the wasteland, and are merely an increase in workers instead
  • The factions were very shallow and unengaging, just press a couple buttons and make everyone happy
And additionally like you said FP1 had an interesting narrative whereas the FP2 campaign was shit and had horrible pacing:
  1. The city is running out of coal, time to expand and look for more coal and maybe oil
  2. Okay we found oil now let's get it back home
  3. There's a storm coming we need to prepare for it
  4. Ok the storm's over but now we need to get more cores to upgrade the generator, let's go to Winterhome to extract cores but it's toxic as fuck so you'll need to throw a shit ton of bodies at it
  5. Ok we can upgrade the generator now, oh wait the faction we didn't side with is unhappy and going to start a civil war
  6. Ok the civil war is over, the end!
 
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Slap47 said:
Frostpunk was good because of it had challenging gameplay that complimented an interesting narrative. Scaling it up is not really the issue.
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From a design perspective no, but from an engine perspective it can be very challenging if your system has too much technical debt. When they released the endless mode in FP1 they already said they were at the limit for that engine. More DLC wouldn't have been a viable idea.
With the reception of FP2, I do wonder if they'll try to course correct with the DLCs or they've kept those as planned. They had a roadmap until like 2026, I can't imagine the reviews made them keep their plans.

Blackstar said:
The wasteland is a much bigger place to explore, but it doesn't feel as engaging or immersive as FP1
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Part of it is that it is just so much bigger. With the increase in scale in FP2, you just send them away, a few weeks later they get there and stay there to exploit the resources, so the wasteland is much more set-and-forget than having to regularly manage your scouts in FP1.

Blackstar said:
The factions were very shallow and unengaging
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Not only are they unfun, they also remove player agency. The Order vs Religion in FP1 was a choice the player made. In FP2, you get randoms ones you might not like, also you only have like four-five, if they were all present the player could choose the one they liked most. But if they were all present, you could also add a layer that factions have much more back and forth or that factions will someone scheeme between each other both in favor and against. Now they just always oppose each other. That goes with your point of City planning no longer matters too, the devs just removed player agency.
 
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Imagine being so aggressively cucked that you decide to shove the Chinese New Year in your Victorian England game.
FPCuck.jpg


And I thought they couldn't get any lower, hot damn.
 
new updates about this game, They're giving players a "free major content update" in May which is supposed to help improve sales, because this game came way underperformed. nothing specific about it though.

Then they have 2 DLCs for later in the year, Nothing worth talking about either. It feels based on the wording that they're going all-in on the "console port" which is surprising considering who the fuck plays a city sim on a console, but whatever.
 
Get the rope Macaulay! said:
new updates about this game, They're giving players a "free major content update" in May which is supposed to help improve sales, because this game came way underperformed. nothing specific about it though.

Then they have 2 DLCs for later in the year, Nothing worth talking about either. It feels based on the wording that they're going all-in on the "console port" which is surprising considering who the fuck plays a city sim on a console, but whatever.
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Considering how the game is doing (429 players at the moment with a 24-hour peak of 724 vs FP1's 1248/3014), I'd reckon there's probably a couple dozen potential buyers, at most.

Also, has anyone else thought that the music was a bit of a downgrade compared to the first one? Piotr Musial knocked out of the park in Frostpunk 1, but here I can't remember a single track. I'm not sure if it was due to it being buried under all the sounds effects or what.
 
Need for Sped said:
I'm not sure if it was due to it being buried under all the sounds effects or what.
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Probably that, the audio was very cluttered now that you mention it. In the campaign in 1, they knew when to lessen the effects and let the music carry the atmosphere.
 
FrostPunk 2: Your city survived the initial storm, but it is not enough. Space and food are becoming scarce. You heard rumors of other generators. Go forth, Captain, and reclaim the lands under mankind's light, lest they forever go dim once again.

FrostPunk 3: What was once a small city has now become the beginning of a fledgling rebirth of the Empire, defying history and fate. Mighty steam locomotives and airships, built to withstand this new world, connect your new cities. But the Frost has taken it's toll on the world, wildlife becoming more scarce, along with wood and other necessities to feed your growing Empire. This cannot last. Explore the remnants of Tesla's city, uncover his research, and halt the worsening conditions of the world, lest all be lost and consumed by the Frost.

What do you guys think? This was the direction I was hoping they were going for until they showed what direction FrostPunk 2 went.
 
So when your game totally bombs because your fans absolutely hated all the major changes in the sequel, what's the obvious solution? Make everything even MORE extreme! Because that's totally going to fix everything. God, these developers are literally so dense.
 
TrinityReformed said:
What do you guys think? This was the direction I was hoping they were going for until they showed what direction FrostPunk 2 went.
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I enjoyed FP1 because it was micro-managing to survive a desperate situation. There should be no condition where I overcome that situation and feel secure. The situation itself should pass, and that is the win condition.

So, I thought a natural progression for FP2 would be to add some form of Tower Defense / Wave attacks as a new mechanic on top of the cold mechanic. They had a chance to make a very interesting twist, the attackers could all be refugees and invaders at the same time. So you would want to admit some to grow the city's population - but not more than you can house and feed, and each wave admitted becomes a faction in the city. How aggressively you deter them (shoot on sight? barb wire?) may make the next wave more violent, etc.
 
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