Orbiter Fred Fuchs / Freddy Boy - DSP-log who ended up surpassing Phil as a lolcow. The sok proved phil right. Fuched on Kiwi.

[SteamSniperWolf]

So hey everybody I'm about to be a complete asshole ahah,

Not defending anyone. But sometimes when you're in such a tight group where its you vs the world, it's hard to see you're the bad guy. I think exposing themselves and admitting their mistakes should be allowed. What everyone involved in the SoK did was disgusting no doubt, but these are human beings too. Everyone makes mistakes. You don't need to forget what everyone did either, but you can forgive (some) people for wanting to move on from the mess they've created.

If you don't then hey. That's your choice. In my opinion if I were to hold that kind of grudge, I'd be no better than DSP's fans though. *Cough* KG *Cough*

 

[JoRo]

Not defending anyone. But sometimes when you're in such a tight group where its you vs the world, it's hard to see you're the bad guy. I think exposing themselves and admitting their mistakes should be allowed. What everyone involved in the SoK did was disgusting no doubt, but these are human beings too. Everyone makes mistakes. You don't need to forget what everyone did either, but you can forgive (some) people for wanting to move on from the mess they've created.

If you don't then hey. That's your choice. In my opinion if I were to hold that kind of grudge, I'd be no better than DSP's fans though. *Cough* KG *Cough*

Might have taken it wrong, I WANT them to admit mistakes but so far I've seen them do apologies that are vague and they continue to blame Fred instead of themselves, some of the members that have shown that are not meant to be called out in that, for example Che is someone I'm not talking to in that message, but people like evil aj I am talking to. I just don't think a lot of the members apologies were real apologies, they were more like fizz and Fred's.

 

[Kamatsubu]

Might have taken it wrong, I WANT them to admit mistakes but so far I've seen them do apologies that are vague and they continue to blame Fred instead of themselves, some of the members that have shown that are not meant to be called out in that, for example Che is someone I'm not talking to in that message, but people like evil aj I am talking to. I just don't think a lot of the members apologies were real apologies, they were more like fizz and Fred's.

I suppose you could say some people still have a lot of growing up to do.

 

[BillionBisonBucks]

he literally tried to talk me into buying crack and smoking it on air

No, wait, hold on. Let me poll the room. If any kiwi has ever had someone push crack on them that WASN'T a crackhead themselves, please speak up. For my part, all of the many times someone has tried to get me to smoke crack, it's been a crackhead trying to get at my wallet or my time.

So, dude stays up for most of entire days on these calls, obsessively rabbitholing down entire warrens. He's paranoid as a defining character trait. He's mysteriously loaded. But most damning in my eyes, he went full DARE PSA peer pressure - for crack.

This dude is an actual factual crackhead. I'd put money on it.

 

[RandomAccount]

This was one hell of a ride.
While watching one trainwreck that just won't disappear (DSP) you get another one (SoK). Amazing, good work.

I got one question about Freddy boy, though:
What is he supposed to do now that would be beneficial for him at all? I've read a lot of comments saying how his apology was a bad joke (which it was) but how redeem himself at all?
He fucked up so damn hard that the only option I see for him is to vanish and maybe try again in a few months or years - with whatever - and when it is something on the internet then he better hope no one recognizes his rather unique voice.
So again, what's the use of a really sincere apology? A really fully fleshed out apology. People won't accept it anyway.


Also @JoRo :
best comment in this thread. I think welcoming the SoK people is rather nice but it seems the tune is slightly changing into "Fred and Fizz are scum" and everyone of those who agree and jump on hating Fred get scot-free

So hey everybody I'm about to be a complete asshole ahah,

To all ex sok members, as you know I've been going around asking you guys what you did on twitter and seeing how much you guys would admit to, I fucked around acting like a nice guy saying good job for apologizing even though most of you never went into detail, in fact I can count maybe five of you who actually went into detail with what you did.

See, after all the streams and "twitlongers"(god fucking damn the twitlongers, aka the most insincere way to apologize ever) where you guys bury all the shit on Fred, make fun of him, laugh at the door shit, go on and on about how fucked up and stupid he is while saying nothing about how fucked up and stupid you were. He may be the worst but I want you all to remember this.

None of you should be happy and chill considering you guys were all going to let him get away with this had we not stepped in. I'm going to be brutally honest, learning the shit you guys said about Fred, you need to remember that you went along with it, you took all of it seriously, and you guys were sticking together until the end. Throughout all the leaks the only ones who get a pass are Che ren and moogle, they stepped up and said shit first and owned up to it, especially
Moogle considering he was still in the group. However moogle that livestream you had was circlejerking to the fucking extreme and the members involved completely invalidated the apologies they made.

Like I said I don't believe the majority of you are completely sorry, I mean why should you? None of the leaks were about you so you release shit about Fred but strategically keep out anything to do with you. I want you all to keep in mind that Fred is a total bitch but you guys were his bitch. He had you guys in the palm of his hands doing whatever he wanted until he got tired of you and any fucked up shit that would happen none of you would say anything, and if someone did say something you all would gang up on them and ruin that persons reputation.

People like txt and pol, you all knew that shit was happening, and none of you did a damn thing about it, it took a random nobody to call the sok lame to save txt from the usual shit you guys did to people. Then on top of that you all sat there and watched Fred blame pascal for the drama when fizz and evilaj also said shit to txt. None of you could stand up to the guy, this dumbass who couldn't even show his own face. You want to act like he was the only one taking things too far but you all went along with every crazy thing he did. How none of you thought the four room shit was weird, voting to kick members, lying on a podcast so he can pretend to be late, all the doxing, the situations with ardnas and divas, overreacting to a fucking Ed page, yeah you all fucking did stupid shit like that or at the least were fine going along with stupid shit like that, and you know why? because you all were equally as into it as he was, don't pretend like you weren't.

You were keeping quiet during the leaks and ignoring it hoping it would go away despite us showing all these fucked up things that were going on at first and you guys were ready to kick pascal out had it not advanced any further. My point is you guys need to shut the fuck up and remember that you guys have nothing to be proud of right now. Not even the ones who are legitimately owning up to it, people like Che and loophole who were emotional and hating themselves for what they did, they are people who are sorry and a couple more but none of them are acting like this is a great moment. Yeah congrats you all came back together and I'm happy for you guys but you are all fucking idiots for letting this stupid shit be the cause of the split in the first place.

None of you were saints, you all can keep blaming Fred all you want but at the end of the day you guys have no one to blame but yourselves for why the group turned out this way, Fred could have easily been kicked out at anytime if you all "really" thought that he was the main problem, but none of you did, because none of you had a problem with him up until this came up.

You all at the end of the day were a bunch of followers, and you would have kept following Fred for years to come unless he himself wanted you out.

I don't really care either way if you guys are sorry or not, I went around to help give people that extra push needed to admit shit and a couple did but most of you didn't. I wanted to see who was really sincere so I could find out which of you are no better than Fred cause just like you guys did with dsp I enjoy calling people out on bullshit.

Also to the mods and @Null please don't ban people unless they really are going over the top, I don't want a one sided thread where no one protects Fred because the people that do are hilarious.

 

[Kamatsubu]

No, wait, hold on. Let me poll the room. If any kiwi has ever had someone push crack on them that WASN'T a crackhead themselves, please speak up. For my part, all of the many times someone has tried to get me to smoke crack, it's been a crackhead trying to get at my wallet or my time.

So, dude stays up for most of entire days on these calls, obsessively rabbitholing down entire warrens. He's paranoid as a defining character trait. He's mysteriously loaded. But most damning in my eyes, he went full DARE PSA peer pressure - for crack.

This dude is an actual factual crackhead. I'd put money on it.

Actually Fred always said he only liked Marijuana. That's it. But eh... Guess you never know. He could be lying about that.

 

[BIgBadWolf]

So @RADRAD ,
Did you play some more Destiny with Fred after you went on Loophole's stream? Did you talked to him ever since? You are, after all, the last know person to talked to him after the "apology" that we know of.

 

[OgreSan]

@RandomAccount the issue I think a lot of people had with his twit longer was that it was so generic and impersonal that no one could find it believable. If he'd made it more personal and owned up some of the things he's been accused of, or even add things people haven't even said, he'd probably have had some chance for his destroyed reputation to mend over time.

 

[BIgBadWolf]

@RandomAccount the issue I think a lot of people had with his twit longer was that it was so generic and impersonal that no one could find it believable. If he'd made it more personal and owned up some of the things he's been accused of, or even add things people haven't even said, he'd probably have had some chance for his destroyed reputation to mend over time.

His apology was a (poorly made) politician one. If he had addressed the leaks when they came out and decided to completely disband the SOK the whole thing would've blow over and this thread might not have been 65 pages strong now. His complete radio silence is why so many people are focusing on blaming him and giving the other member a "free pass". Thinking this would blow over like every over time was a big mistake on his part. As @JoRo said, most of the members stayed silent until they absolutely had to spoke up to save face.

 

[Lurkette]

I haven't read through the entire thread, but I would just like to say a sincere "die in a fire" to Fred. I don't care if that's a-loggy, my family was personally affected by a shitlord like Fred. An aunt who manipulated my father's side of the family against my mother, almost including me when I was very young. It took 20+ years for the rift to be mended. While the silent manipulator/mob leader is a cool character, they're the scummiest, most cowardly people on the goddamn planet. And that's essentially what Fred is; a coward. He has to resort to threatening a person's privacy, because he doesn't have any other real power. He can't take the moral highground, fuck he can't even state he's personally better; he lives in his fucking parents house and spends 20+ hours a day obsessing over jackasses on the internet who said a mean word to him. At least DSP gets paid.

And I'm seconding @JoRo on the ex-members; Che, Loophole, and RadRad are the only ones I personally see as redeemed; everyone else is just slightly less shit tier then Fred until I see more sincere twitlongers, at the very VERY least.

 

[RandomAccount]

@RandomAccount the issue I think a lot of people had with his twit longer was that it was so generic and impersonal that no one could find it believable. If he'd made it more personal and owned up some of the things he's been accused of, or even add things people haven't even said, he'd probably have had some chance for his destroyed reputation to mend over time.

I agree with @BIgBadWolf in a certain way that the only thing Fred could have done was damage-control by pulling everyone he could down with him.

Only either hide, evade ala "that was years ago - we don't do that now" and then hope nothing else comes to the surface (that's out of the question now) or, as said, pull the whole group and every individual in it down with him so that the hate get distributed among them.

I mean, how would he able to apologize for what he did after the girl died/when she was alive to the point anyone would somehow forgive him? And he could not know if or when those things come to light.
He was already fucked.
Or maybe take the whole fall for everyone else.

Regardless, his credibility was fucked and the relationship to the other members was fucked.

Bottom line is:
I would really love to know if there was a way he could have gotten out of this mostly intact. A way, that would people HERE go "ok, I accept that apology/move".

 

[RandomAccount]

Might have taken it wrong, I WANT them to admit mistakes but so far I've seen them do apologies that are vague and they continue to blame Fred instead of themselves, some of the members that have shown that are not meant to be called out in that, for example Che is someone I'm not talking to in that message, but people like evil aj I am talking to. I just don't think a lot of the members apologies were real apologies, they were more like fizz and Fred's.

Honestly, could we know if they are sorry or just sorry because caught?
I have to give some credit to everyone who left the group and cut ties BEFORE this blew over.
Everyone after that I couldn't tell ever if they are really sorry.

I also don't buy a "Fred made me do X"-nonsense as an excuse.

 

[Kamatsubu]

As far as I'm concerned those who have approached me and apologized to my face are more mature and respectable to me than those who haven't. Especially over a narrative that I believe has been proven to be untrue at this point, but instead would rather hold a grudge against me anyways for some petty reason. In my opinion it's pathetic and if they had any honor at all they would own up for the things they've done instead of expecting me to own up to things I haven't done just to get in their good graces again. I've said it on twitter and I'm saying it now. I have nothing to prove to them or anyone.After a lot of the things that have been said about me they are the ones who need to regain my trust. Not the other way around. It's their choice but I don't expect much if anything from them. Either way it makes no difference to me. I'm going to keep doing what I've been doing.

 

[RADRAD]

So @RADRAD ,
Did you play some more Destiny with Fred after you went on Loophole's stream? Did you talked to him ever since? You are, after all, the last know person to talked to him after the "apology" that we know of.

Nope. Ever since that Thursday night, Fred basically acted like the walls crumbling down around him never happened, and we mostly played Destiny 2 for a couple hours that night before I had to go to work. That remains the last time I was in contact with him.

 

[OgreSan]

They'd all have to be complete sociopaths to not be sorry for some of the shit they've done.

Also, if it weren't for a public site like Kiwi, do you think they'd have come forward and would have said anything on the matter? Che said the farms gave them the platform to speak out. The ones that were involved did come forward because they were encouraged to. People were practically begging SoK members to come on here and give their side of the story. As you all know, it looks shady as shit when you stay quiet indefinitely in a brewing shitstorm like this.

Fred got fuched so hard, the people that are celebrating right now are relieved that they don't have to put up with the pressure anymore. Don't forget, you all are humans too. It's easy to get caught up in the moment.

I BELIEVE that there was social pressure helping them, like most human beings, compliant in very shitty situations. It happens in all settings, school, job or in gaming circles. You overlook the most disgusting things or take part in it just to avoid being the next guy on the chopping block. It doesn't excuse it but it helps explain it. It sometimes feels like you guys forget that expectations are a major force in our everyday decision making; regardless of how horrible those decisions can be.

 

[II 638]

So hey everybody I'm about to be a complete asshole ahah,

To all ex sok members, as you know I've been going around asking you guys what you did on twitter and seeing how much you guys would admit to, I fucked around acting like a nice guy saying good job for apologizing even though most of you never went into detail, in fact I can count maybe five of you who actually went into detail with what you did.

See, after all the streams and "twitlongers"(god fucking damn the twitlongers, aka the most insincere way to apologize ever) where you guys bury all the shit on Fred, make fun of him, laugh at the door shit, go on and on about how fucked up and stupid he is while saying nothing about how fucked up and stupid you were. He may be the worst but I want you all to remember this.

None of you should be happy and chill considering you guys were all going to let him get away with this had we not stepped in. I'm going to be brutally honest, learning the shit you guys said about Fred, you need to remember that you went along with it, you took all of it seriously, and you guys were sticking together until the end. Throughout all the leaks the only ones who get a pass are Che ren and moogle, they stepped up and said shit first and owned up to it, especially
Moogle considering he was still in the group. However moogle that livestream you had was circlejerking to the fucking extreme and the members involved completely invalidated the apologies they made.

Like I said I don't believe the majority of you are completely sorry, I mean why should you? None of the leaks were about you so you release shit about Fred but strategically keep out anything to do with you. I want you all to keep in mind that Fred is a total bitch but you guys were his bitch. He had you guys in the palm of his hands doing whatever he wanted until he got tired of you and any fucked up shit that would happen none of you would say anything, and if someone did say something you all would gang up on them and ruin that persons reputation.

People like txt and pol, you all knew that shit was happening, and none of you did a damn thing about it, it took a random nobody to call the sok lame to save txt from the usual shit you guys did to people. Then on top of that you all sat there and watched Fred blame pascal for the drama when fizz and evilaj also said shit to txt. None of you could stand up to the guy, this dumbass who couldn't even show his own face. You want to act like he was the only one taking things too far but you all went along with every crazy thing he did. How none of you thought the four room shit was weird, voting to kick members, lying on a podcast so he can pretend to be late, all the doxing, the situations with ardnas and divas, overreacting to a fucking Ed page, yeah you all fucking did stupid shit like that or at the least were fine going along with stupid shit like that, and you know why? because you all were equally as into it as he was, don't pretend like you weren't.

You were keeping quiet during the leaks and ignoring it hoping it would go away despite us showing all these fucked up things that were going on at first and you guys were ready to kick pascal out had it not advanced any further. My point is you guys need to shut the fuck up and remember that you guys have nothing to be proud of right now. Not even the ones who are legitimately owning up to it, people like Che and loophole who were emotional and hating themselves for what they did, they are people who are sorry and a couple more but none of them are acting like this is a great moment. Yeah congrats you all came back together and I'm happy for you guys but you are all fucking idiots for letting this stupid shit be the cause of the split in the first place.

None of you were saints, you all can keep blaming Fred all you want but at the end of the day you guys have no one to blame but yourselves for why the group turned out this way, Fred could have easily been kicked out at anytime if you all "really" thought that he was the main problem, but none of you did, because none of you had a problem with him up until this came up.

You all at the end of the day were a bunch of followers, and you would have kept following Fred for years to come unless he himself wanted you out.

I don't really care either way if you guys are sorry or not, I went around to help give people that extra push needed to admit shit and a couple did but most of you didn't. I wanted to see who was really sincere so I could find out which of you are no better than Fred cause just like you guys did with dsp I enjoy calling people out on bullshit.

Also to the mods and @Null please don't ban people unless they really are going over the top, I don't want a one sided thread where no one protects Fred because the people that do are hilarious.

I'm inclined to agree with JoRo here. I am not close with any SoK members but I was close to a lot of GSoK members before leaving the group. Of the 100 plus members very few were interested in hearing or defending my side of the story after I was outted by Fred as some anti-sok anti-gsok conspirator. I'm still not sure I will ever feel comfortable rejoining that group under any name.

 

[OgreSan]

I'm inclined to agree with JoRo here. I am not close with any SoK members but I was close to a lot of GSoK members before leaving the group. Of the 100 plus members very few were interested in hearing or defending my side of the story after I was outted by Fred as some anti-sok anti-gsok conspirator. I'm still not sure I will ever feel comfortable rejoining that group under any name.

edited the spoiler part in so that I don't derail too much. If a mod wants to remove my post I won't complain.

Spoiler

It's painful to see stories like Che and yours and look at some of the SoK members that left; I know several apologized to Che for practically leaving him out in the cold with only Alice to back him up. Props to Che for being a strong man and accepting a good portion of their apologies if they were given; been in a similar position and can say I don't have it in me to forgive that easily.

I didn't follow your story closely until this thread happened. Without power leveling, I've had the same form of betrayal you've experienced. I know from experience how people you've considered to be okay with or even friends leave you out in the fucking cold when the leader decides he doesn't like you being around. That emotion doesn't leave you; you have to leave it if you ever decide to.

Also, if Fred wanted to make any kind of come back, he shouldn't stay quiet officially. On his main account, verified, or on whatever platform he uses, he really should try addressing this shit if he wanted to get past it.

 

[Autisticilluminati]

I think the rest of the members are getting a free pass at the moment given how exceptional Fred is. Most of them come across as shady given the timing of their apology twitlongers after Tevin's video was released and seem more sorry they got caught rather than what they did. Only Che afaik posted all the conversations he had with Fred, warts and all that implicated himself too rather than carefully selected snippets that just highlighted how insane Fred is. I've seen a few times in this thread ex-members mention that Fred seen em as pawns rather than friends, well most of the "friends" were recording and screencapping each other too. They're also the ones who were gleefully cheering on their leader when he used a voice changer to try and catfish someone.

As JoRo said this only happened because they went after too big a fish TXT and it snowballed from there, no one cared when they went after smaller channels. If the TXT thing didn't happen the same people would be scheming and plotting with Fred now. The best thing is that this saga is far from over.I don't think Freddy Boy is the sort to let others have the last laugh and if the captain is going down with the ship he's going to take the rest of them with him. The folks doing mini-SOK reunions and roasting Fred, I have a feeling the spotlight is gonna be shun back on them soon.

Honestly, could we know if they are sorry or just sorry because caught?
I have to give some credit to everyone who left the group and cut ties BEFORE this blew over.
Everyone after that I couldn't tell ever if they are really sorry.

I also don't buy a "Fred made me do X"-nonsense as an excuse.

 

[JackDavis]

I believe Che is really remorseful, but man I wish you would have spoken out when this stuff was happening. When it was happening, I was so confused why you just disappeared from the group and a few people asked Fred about why you left the group and he was being all diplomatic about it "Oh, he left for personal reasons and because I'm such a good upstanding guy I'm not going to talk about his personal reasons." You coulda squashed his fake nice guy act right there.
You had another opportunity to do this when Alice passed away, unbeknownst to us you subtweeted Fred about calling people out if they were fake about their feelings towards her, but you let him get away with faking traffic so he could miss her eulogy during the SoKast. There were many chances you had to show how poor Fred was treating you and others, but you let him get away with it.
Now this isn't me bashing you at all, it's just me being disappointed that it took this long for this stuff to come out and we were under the impression that Fred was cool for so long. I understand "stop snitchin" and not wanting to cause problems, but this allowed other problems to continue.

 

[Che]

Ah... You got a point friend .. Thanks for your perspective

Che I respect what you do, so I do say this from a place of love and respect.

Charisma doesnt need to be the charming man or social butterfly. Sometimes its just the loudest person in the room. I know noone wants to be branded a "follower" but there are those who are natural leaders and those who are natural followers. And sometimes those natural followers will simply follow the loudest voice in the room as long as their root purpose unites them. Fred was a pretty loud voice. He was not a natural leader. He wanted to lead. He was one of those who truly feared being branded a follower. (thus him coveting being the next Metokur) And he waivered whenever there was a louder voice in the room. Just from the endures I watched, I can only speculate on what went on behind closed doors. But when Fred was confronted with a stronger personality, he got chatty, as if he stopped talking for one moment his power would wane. He got louder, as if fearing his voice would no longer be heard. He was a weak leader made strong by people who wanted to believe him. He mimicked the mannerisms of stronger personalities in an attempt to become them. He practiced this. He divided and conquered those in the group. He would speak one on one with people in order to keep people in line but confused as to the group. I can only imagine those one on one conversations went something like

Hey PersonX, I really like you, a lot. You're awesome and amazing.
Hey PersonY, I really like you a lot, you're awesome and amazing. Not like person X who is a jerk
Hey PersonZ, I really like you a lot, you're awesome and amazing. You're the only one I can trust with this information.

In terms of intimidation, I think the threat of doxxing was his intimidation trump card. Go against the group and you'd be doxxed. Your presence online would be publicly mocked and humiliated. You'd be exposed for doing something in the name of Fred. And if the chorus of voices followed Fred in saying something negative, who would most people believe? The target saying "I didnt say that, those are doctored logs" vs multiple people saying "look at this person's logs, they're a horrible person"

None of this made Fred a "good" leader. But it made him the only one the group had. As members were swapped out, the new members hardly knew the history of the group, but knew who the leader was.

This doesnt excuse the actions of the group though. Everyone is capable of independent thought though in a group it is difficult to not become a hive mind.

As an outsider looking in, someone who consumed the content and knew nothing of the individuals outside of the content they provided, all I saw the group was one united by being detractors of Phil. I wasnt the biggest fan of Fred himself because he seemed to jump to unfounded conclusions and preached them as gospel, and would clown on those who disagreed with his conclusions.

I actually stopped liking Fred himself was during the Laveria incident. The individuals who were giving all of this "insider information" on MCNs, and the one girl who was "Youtube certified" providing information again as gospel without verification of this information. The information that was given was nothing that couldnt have been gleaned from a basic google search. But it was being presented from a presumption of authority. This pair of college students were an MCN and speaking from a place of authority like they were the owners of Curse or Machinima. I was just incredibly skeptical about that whole interchange. I didnt doubt that Phil was with Laveria. I was just skeptical that these people presented were as knowledgeable as they were represented to be.