UN Fourth Democratic Debate: A New Dope

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Starts at 5pm-8pm PST / 7pm CST-10pm CST / 8pm-11pm EST

If you want to watch the debate go here or here

Welcome to fourth Democratic primary debates, tonight will feature:

Joe Biden former Vice President
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Kamala Harris senator from California
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Bernie "Heart Breaker" Sanders senator from Vermont
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Andrew Yang businessman
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Cory Booker senator from New Jersey and mutated Obama clone
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Beto O'Rourke representative from Texas
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Amy Klobuchar senator from Minnesota
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Julian Castro former housing and urban development secretary
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Pete Buttigieg mayor of South Bend
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NEW CHALLENGER APPROACHES: Tom Steyer billionaire and businessman
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Elizabeth Warren Massachusetts senator
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RETURNING: Tulsi Gabbard Hawaii representative
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The poll will be posted after the debates. I'm happy to see Tulsi return, but I hate Tom Steyer, mixed bag. I predict tonight is going to be a total mess, this is make or break time.
 
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I'd be cool waiting for a doctor than uhhhh... not being able to afford one period and then just laying down to die

Absolutego said:
Obviously the solution is to invite those corrupt politicians on the insurance industry's dole to personally manage our healthcare, that totally worked out with Obamacare...
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I don't know exactly what you're referencing here but Bernie's plan is to expand access to medicare to every American and not eliminate private healthcare so all those spineless fucking worms can still advocate for private insurance all they like.
 
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ConfederateIrishman said:
I dunno, I don't think the center can hold at this point; Actually I feel if the center isn't careful it could easily fall into the same trap centrists fell into during the Spanish Civil War: Having all sides see them as a potential 5th column and purging them first. Granted, that would require a bunch of assumptions for that same scenario to play out again, but I still think it is a trap they could fall into nevertheless.
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That would be true if the Right was as hyper-polarized as the Left has become, but mercifully that isn't currently the case. Politics can easily flow from left-to-right at the moment, but it's nearly impossible for it to move from right-to-left. Moderate and Centrist Democrats are growing because of this ideological wildfire that the Far Left is lighting inside of their party, and with the Republicans moving slightly to the Left since 2016 it's rounding a lot of those people up once they wind up ostracized from their own party.

Trump didn't win 2016 purely because of the Republican party, he won it by cracking the "Blue Wall" and pulling in a shit-mess of votes from people that previously voted for Obama.

The 2020 elections won't be a matter of the Far Left VS the Far Right, it's going to be the Far Left VS Everyone else telling them to knock it the fuck off. I know I bring it up so often that it's probably obnoxious, but if these Far Left policies and activist stances and buzzword-laden articles were something that the general public wanted, all of their news outlets wouldn't be crashing and burning while moderate and Republican outlets continue to grow. I don't care about what the polls are trying to say because they always fuck with the polls, I care about what the money is telling us, and right now the money is flooding into outlets that didn't "go woke."
 
It's HK-47 said:
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Well you got your wish sooner than you expected. I wouldn't say that anyone was decrying that it was untrue that the future of the party is trending sharply leftward, more-so that the sharp, leftward angle it was taking was a serious mistake. Society as a whole generally bends itself towards the Left as time goes on because societies like moving towards liberty and individual freedoms, but you can't make such a sharp, violent swerve in that direction because after a certain point you're trending towards fascism.

There's no freedom in what most of these people are advocating for, it's nothing but oppression and control and taxation and fear. Seriously, go back and watch the debates again and look at how much fear they kept trying to instill in their audience. Not a single one of them was pushing a message of hope, it was all, "We need to ban X or people will die, our country is run by an insane criminal, we need to panic because ISIS is coming to the U.S.!"

It was just another wall-to-wall example of the Politics of Fear and I'm genuinely tired of politicians trying to shoehorn their way into power by threatening their audience. If you had no real frame of reference and perspective--and given that Liberals tend to almost exclusively gather their news from only liberal sources-- watching this debate would make you think that the world was on fire and Cletus was 10 seconds away from kicking down your door and shooting you because Trump told him to.

By catering to this small collection of Far-Left ideologues they're shutting out every moderate Democrat, every Centrists, and every moderate Republican. They won't allow these people to get anywhere near their platform, they just run them off as hard and as fast as they can and demand 100% conformity because anything less means you can't be a part of the game. It didn't work for the Religious Right, and it's not going to work for the 'Progressive' Left.

This wheel-cracking spin to the Left isn't going to save the Democratic party, it's going to destroy it.
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Did the Squad used to work for bernie in 2016?
 
They shouldn't endorse this early, especially a 78 year old who just had a heart attack. October is still a long ways out of the first votes in the nomination process in February. They still have to fade health scares for the rest of October, November, December and January. Plus, he was either completely sabotaged out of a fair nomination contest or was in on it and laid down for Hillary Clinton in the 2nd round for a beach house.

"Enough about the damn emails!" sunk that joker with me.
 
Manwithn0n0men said:
And here is the thing

10% of the audience influenced by debates actually watch

90% of those influenced watch it in prepackaged bites on news and social media
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This debate is a nice theatre. No 3 hours of dancing and prancing would change my mind and I didn't see too many new points brought forward. They may as well do a swimsuit competition for all the candidates.


Commander X said:
or as insinuated with no evidence in this piece in The Atlantic Monthly in September.
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Anyone retarded enough to be willing to "sit down for a talks" with two largest despots on this planet is dumb as a sack of rocks. That little piece is enough to determine that this lady is a naive imbecile who's going to be lunch to average level thugs. Also lol about the "nuclear war" ... JFC, this is not how wars are fought among elites anymore, rest easy, neither Huilo nor Winnie the Poo is nuking anyone, neither is the Rocket-man Kim.



zap2theextreme said:
I'd be cool waiting for a doctor than uhhhh... not being able to afford one period and then just laying down to die
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the outcome is the same, and yes, I agree about the cost while US pisses away trillions on bullshit. Unfortunately it's those greedy assholes who are also so driven to bring new drugs and treatments to get rich. In USSR no one gave shit, so it's not really about technology or time as it is about motivation to push medicine ahead.

Like I said, and let me appologize for being a callous asshole, you are having this first world problem only due to living in US together with greedy assholes who want to make new drugs, make new medical devices and sell it to you at largest profit possible. In Soviet Russia, any time, you are worthless fodder unless you are in the party elite, you'd never be far enough to regret not being able to care for a possible treatment.
 
zap2theextreme said:
I'd be cool waiting for a doctor than uhhhh... not being able to afford one period and then just laying down to die


I don't know exactly what you're referencing here but Bernie's plan is to expand access to medicare to every American and not eliminate private healthcare so all those spineless fucking worms can still advocate for private insurance all they like.
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first off: Nobody cares about your dad. Stage 4 = as good as dead even if he had the best healthcare, get over it.

The reality is there ain't nothing in this world for free and all the people whose skills are used to take care of him, who made the medical supplies etc. deserve to see recompense too. At the last estimate, implementing socialized healthcare would cost 3 trillion dollars... a year. Not to set up, not over ten years, every year. Here it is completely infeasible. Those other countries get away with it because they're tiny and get cashflows from oil money and not playing World Police.

And to be clear: Most Americans don't die from cancer, etc. at a much higher rate than other '1st world' nations, either, so I don't think we're missing out on that much by not shelling out almost our current budget all over again for "muh Sweden". Lifespan is genetic and controlled by things other than healthcare, so don't go citing that number either.

You wanted reality, there you have it.
 
It's HK-47 said:
Society as a whole generally bends itself towards the Left as time goes on because societies like moving towards liberty and individual freedoms
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A society emerging from tyranny, maybe, a society that is building prosperity and understands that you need a sober, disciplined, industrious middle class to get it. But that's not the part of the cycle we're on. We're past vigorous democracy and moving through ochlocracy toward monarchy.

Post-prosperous society bends itself towards apathy and entitlement, because people who inherit prosperity forget the necessity of hard work, responsibility, education, and the virtues that undergird and enable them. They view their vices as their birthright, and their duties as an impediment to freedom. Why? Because humans are fundamentally lazy and selfish, and we're oh so good at convincing ourselves that what we like is what is right.

Well and good, but it gets better. Vices degrade the mind and body (thus, vices), which makes the people even less fit for liberty, less able to do for themselves; so they turn and give their autonomy to caretakers, and spend more time indulging those same vices because we as a species can't but put the "dumb" in "freedom". The caretakers are only too happy to encourage their wards to glut themselves, because it means they get more chances to embezzle from the trust fund--and eventually, become the masters of self-made slaves, kings over a hapless, witless mass of peasants who are too drunk and debased to understand their own good.

The modern Left wants to give you all your favorite "entertainments", to be sure--at the low, low cost of your income, your self-defense, your ability to speak your mind, your choices, and eventually your life. And everyone else's, in the bargain. If you think it'll go differently this time...I guess that means you're human.

TL;DR: Not at the stage of the cycle we're on, it doesn't.
 
zap2theextreme said:
I don't know exactly what you're referencing here but Bernie's plan is to expand access to medicare to every American and not eliminate private healthcare so all those spineless fucking worms can still advocate for private insurance all they like.
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The aforementioned spineless fucking worms are now responsible for overseeing Medicare's expansion to cover the entire population. Please tell me what you expect their approach to that will look like.
 
Absolutego said:
The aforementioned spineless fucking worms are now responsible for overseeing Medicare's expansion to cover the entire population. Please tell me what you expect their approach to that will look like.
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It's Bernie's legislation and it's his administration that's responsible for passing it if he's elected. Bernie has been advocating for this stuff for his entire career and the guy is old as shit. Medicare for all is an incredibly popular policy so if it gets blocked by spineless worms well then they can reap the consequences. I don't understand the argument of "It's too difficult it'll never pass." I've never seen so many people try so hard to do absolutely nothing. I'd rather Bernie try and fail then continue to suffer and be told it's fine and not expect a better life.
 
zap2theextreme said:
It's Bernie's legislation and it's his administration that's responsible for passing it if he's elected. Bernie has been advocating for this stuff for his entire career and the guy is old as shit. Medicare for all is an incredibly popular policy so if it gets blocked by spineless worms well then they can reap the consequences. I don't understand the argument of "It's too difficult it'll never pass." I've never seen so many people try so hard to do absolutely nothing. I'd rather Bernie try and fail then continue to suffer and be told it's fine and not expect a better life.
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I'm reading a lot of "Daddy Bernie will save us pbuh" and not a lot of how we benefit from giving the government more control over healthcare without it turning into a self-serving grift job for beltway swamp rats.

EDIT: I made the same mistake you're making with Obama fixing healthcare in 2008. Look how that turned out. Don't put all your hopes in messianic political demagogues.
 
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It's a social service there's no money to be made. It's entirely subsided by the government. The private health insurance industry is a multi-billion dollar business where denying people healthcare makes them more money than not. In the current system you literally pay them money for them to tell you yo fuck off. How does that make any sense?
 
zap2theextreme said:
There's more money to be made cutting social services than exploiting them. lmao
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In the 80s there was this doctor who exploited medicaid by filing a ton of false claims like multiple MRI's and cat scans and shit for patients with a broken arm and other shit that was unnecessary and never happened. Just because it's a government program doesn't mean there isn't cash there to take.
 
Absolutego said:
We literally have a term for appropriating government spending to enrich private industries in a representative's district. Pork-barrel legislation is higher than it ever was. What exactly do you think Bernie's referring to when bitching about lobbyists?
The naivete and ignorance of Medicare for All supporters, lmao
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Ah, sorry I'll lay down and die then. So thanks for the... support? Never seen such a gleeful display and energy from someone looking for excuses for why everyone shouldn't have healthcare. If you honestly think the situation can be more corrupt and dire than it is now, where people just give up on living, or have to ration life saving medicine like we live in a mad max wasteland, then I can't help you.
 
zap2theextreme said:
Ah, sorry I'll lay down and die then. So thanks for the... support? Never seen such a gleeful display and energy from someone looking for excuses for why everyone shouldn't have healthcare. If you honestly think the situation can be more corrupt and dire than it is now, where people just give up on living, or have to ration life saving medicine like we live in a mad max wasteland, then I can't help you.
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No amount of emotional bullshit is going to change the fact that the U.S. can't afford it. Sorry.
 
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