Formula 1 Discussion - And favourite driver?

[RomanesEuntDomus]

The way of stopping this crash would be to replace sausage kerbs with a strip of grass or astroturf. As proven by this, the F2 crash, Abbie Eaton's crash and the F3 crash at Monza a few years ago, they're incredibly dangerous and a death waiting to happen.

Stupid, stupid idea, I don't know why they ever implemented them.

In case of the F2 race, yeah, though you'd still have two cars in a T-bone accident, which is always nasty.
But preventing Verstappen and Hamilton's crash last year in Monza? Absolutely not. The curb played literally no role in making Verstappen's car climb over Hamilton's whatsoever.

Here's a sideview of Verstappen's entire trip over said curb:

The car only clipped the curb and it did not cause it to bounce into the air or anything like that.

And here's another angle:

The red border indicates the last frame in the video before Verstappen's rear starts to move upwards cause the backwheels tangle up. You can clearly see that Verstappen's car is firmly planted on the ground throughout the entire trip over the curb and it is well past when the actual crash happens.

Hamilton aimed for the apex of the corner and Max was unwilling to yield or go straight, which caused a collision where the rear-wheels touched.

As long as it's open-wheel-racing, that's something that can always happen and it has nothing to do with the presence of sausage curbs. This accident could have happened in the notoriously vast and flat run-off areas of Paul Ricard and it would have played out exactly the same.

 

[Balr0g]

Made a small comparism between the Hamilton Verstappen crash at Copse and the duel between Hamilton and Leclerc. Strange of much less space Leclerc left imho and nothing happens

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

Made a small comparism between the Hamilton Verstappen crash at Copse and the duel between Hamilton and Leclerc. Strange of much less space Leclerc left imho and nothing happens

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Wqs7T9HfX6Q

Well, FiA penalized Hamilton for deliberately missing the apex, which caused the crash. The rules give a fixed penalty for that kind of incident, independent of the outcome of the crash (which is reasonable, if you ask me), so it seemed somewhat lax, but still FiA told him to pipe down.

Though I still don't understand why FiA penalized Verstappen for the Monza thing. I mean, yeah, he could have avoided the crash by cutting off through the chicane, but I still don't see how that was en par with Hamilton's little Copse-adventure, to me, it was a mere racing incident. Two hotheads refusing to give way, so they ended up in a sandwich.

 

[Coccxys]

What. A. Cunt.

 

[Balr0g]

Well, FiA penalized Hamilton for deliberately missing the apex, which caused the crash. The rules give a fixed penalty for that kind of incident, independent of the outcome of the crash (which is reasonable, if you ask me), so it seemed somewhat lax, but still FiA told him to pipe down.

Though I still don't understand why FiA penalized Verstappen for the Monza thing. I mean, yeah, he could have avoided the crash by cutting off through the chicane, but I still don't see how that was en par with Hamilton's little Copse-adventure, to me, it was a mere racing incident. Two hotheads refusing to give way, so they ended up in a sandwich.

The funny thing is that during the replay of the Hamilton Verstappen crash in Monza Brundle said "Verstappen did nothing wrong here". so yeah the FIa surely didn't know left from right. Though it's funny how they didn't penaile any of the bumps or pushing of track movements that happened at Silverstone. I thought that Perez for example would get a 5 second penalty for pushing Hamilton of

 

[Lone Dogma]

In case of the F2 race, yeah, though you'd still have two cars in a T-bone accident, which is always nasty.

A t-bone is still better than having cars flying through the air, though.

The red border indicates the last frame in the video before Verstappen's rear starts to move upwards cause the backwheels tangle up. You can clearly see that Verstappen's car is firmly planted on the ground throughout the entire trip over the curb and it is well past the actual crash happens.

As long as it's open-wheel-racing, that's something that can always happen and it has nothing to do with the presence of sausage curbs. This accident could have happened in the notoriously vast and flat run-off areas of Paul Ricard and it would have played out exactly the same.

Fair enough. Although I still think that a strip of grass or astroturf, 50 cm in width, around run-off areas, would solve shit like this and keep battles on the track, as well as stopping abuses of track limits. I know MotoGP don't like things like that, so I've come up with a solution that I'll show off later.

 

[Nod Flenders]

What. A. Cunt.

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What a sore loser.

 

[Full Race Replay]

What. A. Cunt.

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I honestly want Lewis to say what about Leclercs driving was so much better than what Max was doing last year. Leclerc forced Lewis onto the inner curb further inside than he was last year

 

[Bill Elliot]

Rumor mill says Red Bull and Porsche will announce their partnership at the Red Bull Ring this week. 2026 engines

 

[Full Race Replay]

Rumor mill says Red Bull and Porsche will announce their partnership at the Red Bull Ring this week. 2026 engines

Surprised they would agree to it and announce it so early, but hopefully this means that porsche can get 4 solid years of engine development.

Speaking of the Austrian grand prix, I looked back in the thread a bit, and noticed that the first time that this thread started to get more consistent traffic was for the Austrian grand prix 2020, which was on page 10! It's hard to believe that the race during which lewis binned albon was two years ago.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

What. A. Cunt.

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JFC

I am legitimately butthurt over that comment. Literally "I want to punch this smug motherfucker in his stupid fucking face until the piercings fall off"-mad.

Hamilton deliberately punted Max off the track, he was awarded full responsibility by FiA and was penalized accordingly. It was a crash that sent Verstappen to hospital and Hamilton literally went "I'll do it again if I have to" in the aftermath.

And now this utter, worthless cunt, shits out a comment like that through his facial cloaka? Fuck this asshole and everyone stupid enough to think this faggot is a decent driver, let alone decent person. All he does is saying "It's crazy how I was much less of an unfair asshole in this race than the last".

Decent journos would point that out. So fuck these Journos whores as well.

Though it's funny how they didn't penaile any of the bumps or pushing of track movements that happened at Silverstone. I thought that Perez for example would get a 5 second penalty for pushing Hamilton of

Yeah, Verstappen too. He forced Mick off the track two times in the last few corners, so I would think a 5s penalty would be applicable.

A t-bone is still better than having cars flying through the air, though.

Can't argue with that. Then again, maybe they should make the curbs oversized, so cars just jump clean over other cars, Dukes of Hazard-style.

Although I still think that a strip of grass or astroturf, 50 cm in width, around run-off areas, would solve shit like this and keep battles on the track, as well as stopping abuses of track limits.

100% Agree.

Rumor mill says Red Bull and Porsche will announce their partnership at the Red Bull Ring this week. 2026 engines

Porsche Red Bull or Red Bull Porsche... either has a nice ring to it.

Speaking of the Austrian grand prix, I looked back in the thread a bit, and noticed that the first time that this thread started to get more consistent traffic was for the Austrian grand prix 2020, which was on page 10! It's hard to believe that the race during which lewis binned albon was two years ago.

Yeah. The craziest thing is that Albon was driving for RB at the time, then he phased out of F1 and back again. It's weird that at the same time, it feels like it was a lifetime ago, but on the other, it feels like it was just yesterday.

 

[Ronnie Leibowitz]

Is it just me or has the quality of wheel to wheel racing skills declined a lot with the younger drivers? Appears there are a lot more incidents now.

 

[Balr0g]

Is it just me or has the quality of wheel to wheel racing skills declined a lot with the younger drivers? Appears there are a lot more incidents now.

I am not sure. Leclerc seems to usually have no problem with wheel to wheel fighting. Verstappen on the other hand drives like a madman when he is defending. A far cry from the frist races when he and Leclerc had several clean duels

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

Is it just me or has the quality of wheel to wheel racing skills declined a lot with the younger drivers? Appears there are a lot more incidents now.

As someone said, it's possible that the safety features of modern day racing allow worse drivers to make it through the feeder series and stick around in F1 longer, but I actually kinda doubt that's the case. Fatalities and even career ending non-fatal crashes were rather rare in F1, even in the worst of times. And I doubt that the quality of a driver is directly proportionate with their willingness to take risks (ie: if you're willing to risk your life in a F1 car, you're also a better driver than someone who thinks the sport is too dangerous).

I think part of the reason is how finnicky modern F1 cars are due to the heavy optimization and it certainly doesn't help that the cars have become really large:


20 years ago, the cars were about 4.5m long, now they are like 5.7m long. Less space on the racetrack means less margin for errors. The cars also have become significantly more powerful.

The fastest lap in Qualifying at the Monaco GP 2002 was 1:16.676, with the quickest lap in the race being a 1:18.023.
The fastest lap in Qualifying at the Monaco GP 2022 was 1:11.376, with the quickest lap in the race being a 1:14.693 (and keep in mind, it was a wet race with cold tarmac and the fastest lap in the race was on medium tyres).

 

[Ronnie Leibowitz]

I am not sure. Leclerc seems to usually have no problem with wheel to wheel fighting. Verstappen on the other hand drives like a madman when he is defending. A far cry from the frist races when he and Leclerc had several clean duels

I wish I had kept a tally watching old races in quarantine. Could be biased in my recollection. People always talk about how the old cars were death traps (and they were if you crashed) but the total number of fatalities was quite small percentage wise. I get the feeling drivers must have been more careful or more aware.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

I wish I had kept a tally watching old races in quarantine. Could be biased in my recollection. People always talk about how the old cars were death traps (and they were if you crashed) but the total number of fatalities was quite small percentage wise. I get the feeling drivers must have been more careful or more aware.

I think it's something to keep in mind as well.
Maybe the cars used to crash less in the past, but maybe the drivers were way more careful when choosing when and where to overtake, whereas modern drivers can be more aggressive and take the risks of a crash much more easily.

 

[Ronnie Leibowitz]

(ie: if you're willing to risk your life in a F1 car, you're also a better driver than someone who thinks the sport is too dangerous).

This would be interesting to study. Risk taking behavior is correlated with testosterone levels. And testosterone levels are correlated with athletic ability in other sports. I haven't seen any studies about driving specifically though.

 

[Balr0g]

I wish I had kept a tally watching old races in quarantine. Could be biased in my recollection. People always talk about how the old cars were death traps (and they were if you crashed) but the total number of fatalities was quite small percentage wise. I get the feeling drivers must have been more careful or more aware.

If we take the 90's we had 2 fatalities (it could have been more but those drivers were damn lucky). Just take a look at this. This is from 1990 and the driver survived albeit heavily injured

Though I wouldn't actually say that the safer cars bring out more risks. I think the drivers back then were also very risky (just think about how they drove in the rain where in today's day and age you get a red flag or safety car) but tat the same time the cars were more nimble and perhaps there was more space. also a small reminder today's tracks are way safer then those of the past. We have more asphalt zones instead of sand banks and also tecpro barriers instead of simple guardrails with tyres in front

 

[Coccxys]

Surprised they would agree to it and announce it so early, but hopefully this means that porsche can get 4 solid years of engine development.

Making an agreement probably wouldn't be too difficult. Red Bull have partnerships with Porche in other racing series so it makes sense they already know how each other works and who to get around the table.

Unfortunately it's neigh on impossible to find anything related to previous partnerships, racing seriese etc because all the "rumour is..." articles have spammed everything else clean off the search engines.

 

[Wild Wild Sonichu]

JFC

I am legitimately butthurt over that comment. Literally "I want to punch this smug motherfucker in his stupid fucking face until the piercings fall off"-mad.

Hamilton deliberately punted Max off the track, he was awarded full responsibility by FiA and was penalized accordingly. It was a crash that sent Verstappen to hospital and Hamilton literally went "I'll do it again if I have to" in the aftermath.

And now this utter, worthless cunt, shits out a comment like that through his facial cloaka? Fuck this asshole and everyone stupid enough to think this faggot is a decent driver, let alone decent person. All he does is saying "It's crazy how I was much less of an unfair asshole in this race than the last".

Decent journos would point that out. So fuck these Journos whores as well.


Yeah, Verstappen too. He forced Mick off the track two times in the last few corners, so I would think a 5s penalty would be applicable.


Can't argue with that. Then again, maybe they should make the curbs oversized, so cars just jump clean over other cars, Dukes of Hazard-style.

100% Agree.

Porsche Red Bull or Red Bull Porsche... either has a nice ring to it.

Yeah. The craziest thing is that Albon was driving for RB at the time, then he phased out of F1 and back again. It's weird that at the same time, it feels like it was a lifetime ago, but on the other, it feels like it was just yesterday.

Everything else aside, with how much tighter LeClerc had Loois at that apex, it really feels like the only reason HAM is so complimentary is because he ended up ahead; If that had backfired on him, I imagine we'd have another speil about dangerous driving (But only when it affects me)

Appreciate the analysis of those crashes the past few posts; I'm in favour of the Halo, as you'd expect, but the amount of people who constantly prattle on about HOW IT'S PROVEN ITSELF NOW after almost every crash get extremely annoying. I get there was far more pushback when it was initially added, but at this point it's a safety feature the same as any other, and there really aren't too many people getting autistic as shit over it anymore.

But most importantly; Small cars good.