Fire Emblem series

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Berrakh said:
Nerds often think that an explanation existing means criticism becomes invalid.
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"Why is Edelgard a crazy bitch?" "Well she had a bad childhood" "Works for me!"

"Why is Dimitri a murder hobo?" "Well he had a bad childhood" "Works for me!"

"Why is Claude's script half finished?" "Well Dimitri and Edelgard are the main focus..." "Works for me!"
 
Zeke Von Genbu said:
"Why is Edelgard a crazy bitch?" "Well she had a bad childhood" "Works for me!"

"Why is Dimitri a murder hobo?" "Well he had a bad childhood" "Works for me!"

"Why is Claude's script half finished?" "Well Dimitri and Edelgard are the main focus..." "Works for me!"
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Bad childhood is fine if it and their reactions to it are well explored. But... FE as a series has had some pretty weak lead characters. The side characters are genuinely better much of the time.
 
Berrakh said:
Bad childhood is fine if it and their reactions to it are well explored. But... FE as a series has had some pretty weak lead characters. The side characters are genuinely better much of the time.
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Yeah, but "Bad childhood" is unironically the basis of the argument sometimes. It ignores the rest of their writing problems or undercooked aspects by just going "But bad childhood..." as if that is a silver bullet. Dimitri and Edelgard, especially Edelgard, are really underdeveloped at points or have very weird developments like a huge moment in Dimitri's character is stuck in Claude and Annette's support of all fucking places.

Lead characters vs side characters are a mixed bag depending on which game you play. In GBA era games the leads get frankly the vast majority of the presence and the side characters get very little generally speaking. FE7 especially has this due to the multiple story lines and having 3 lords. Lyn is bad, but Eliwood and Hector get a lot of development. The side characters don't get a ton and what they do get can be really undercooked depending on the character, like Raven's revenge plot barely goes anywhere despite it sounding more important then it actually is. I still think Eliwood is a good lead despite how "standard" he is, considering he functions as a foil for Hector who at least attempts to be less standard to counter balance Eliwood. Lyn is still bad though.

As of Awakening-ish the side characters got way more supports which let them typically be more active without being tied down by plot baggage. You needed to have a very good hook in one or multiple supports to stand out as a side character in the older games. Stefan is an example of a basically no name character who had a really good hook due to all the racial politics around him and the game he was in that made him stand out.
 
SnowBall said:
Is it me or do some of the mods and admins on that site kind of come off as cunty? I lurked the forums a few times and they always sounded so unpleasant.
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Try watching a bunch of teenagers and manchildren arguing over the same talking points for a few years and tell me how you feel.
 
The story is not even remotetly good or even engaging I don't know why they obsess about fire emblem stories like that.
 
NerdShamer said:
Try watching a bunch of teenagers and manchildren arguing over the same talking points for a few years and tell me how you feel.
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True, especially since I have heard horror stories of certain ones like Anacybele or whatever her name is.
 
JuanActimel said:
The story is not even remotetly good or even engaging I don't know why they obsess about fire emblem stories like that.
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It's similar to Pokémon; good games with good characters (Units/Pokémon), but the plot is either just there, an eye roll, or nonexistent.

People like us point this stuff out, but it doesn't bother us because that issue is "just there." We just want to play.

However, there are others who have an autistic view in games where they just have to squeeze something out of every facet (plot, game mechanics, character depth, etc.) at ad nauseam. It would be those types who would try to find "something" in games such FE1 (when the Jugdral or Tellius games exist) and to go back to Pokemon, Red/Blue (when Black/White exists).

Just making something greater out of something that is okay being decent or is just lesser. Who knows the reason?
 
I could rant how Edelgard and Claude never working together despite literally being the perfect intellectual duo that have similar goals again and how Dimitri is a piece of crap who people fanboy over because grungy woobies always get doted on is sus, but instead I want to reference the fact that 3 Houses, a game touted for it's supposed amazing world-building and characters, have the majority of the classmates get shunted out of the plot the second the time-skip shows up and people don't recognize that because most of them die and that makes people feel bad.

Seriously, the students don't contribute to anything. Not really, anyways. I don't get how Awakening continues to get shit on for supposedly superfluous characters when the fan-favorite characters of 3 Houses (characters like Dorothea, Bernadetta, Fernadad, Ashe, heck even Felix to a certain extend) are barely cliffnotes in the grand scheme of things.

Even Fates was better in this regard, and Fates has infinitely worse writing.
 
Honestly, I was expecting that they would show all of the parents of the students in 3H. I mean, Hubert's father had betrayed the empire and instead of an route-exclusive boss fight, he gets yeeted offscreen.
 
Why not just two routes? You can much more easily plan around two linear paths than 3 or 4. And you can more easily add content for students depending on if they're just enemies or allies.

Edit: can add the parents as placeholder enemies if you recruit the kid, and maybe if the kid's character development is far enough they don't have to kill their parent? Idk. Just a 5 second idea.
 
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Berrakh said:
Why not just two routes? You can much more easily plan around two linear paths than 3 or 4. And you can more easily add content for students depending on if they're just enemies or allies.
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Now you have me thinking. The game is obviously centered Edelgard and Dimitri, so why not have two routes to fully flesh out the two main or rather, "focused" lords?

If you just focus on Crimson Flower and Azure Moon as the main and only (for now...) routes, the game could have been more solid.

With that amount of freedom, it makes me wonder about the possibilities...
  • What was keeping them from making Jeralt playable?
    • He's the easiest to make into some uber-Jeigan; he's FUCKING OLD, has great stats to help aid in higher difficulties (Maddening or lol Infernal), has the decent Blade Breaker skill, and a Major Crest of Seiros just to stack a cherry on top.​
  • And what was keeping them from continuing to use him after that event?
    • To make further use of the shapeshifting "real evil" villains present, wouldn't be something if TWSITD had some guy posing as Jeralt in the timeskip.​
  • What was keeping them from making Rhea playable? 3/4 routes she's kidnapped and 2/4 she gets put into a lethal situation that further incapacitates her.
    • She can have the same role in Crimson Flower.​
    • For Azure Moon, have her join as playable ally in paralogues as an Archbishop. But she have her truly recruited for the last chapters as a Gotoh.​
  • Better map scenarios:
    • Gronder Field: Now between two armies, instead of the three way clusterfuck shoehorned into the Blue Route and... the third Yellow Route, which is there just for "oh, bigger reunion, and kids are grown up. wow" sake.​
    • This is something that's been eating at me, but why is the only "Castle/Throne Room" map just Edelgard's Imperial Palace. In her route, you fight Claude at a harbor and Dimitri in some random rainy field that's more meaningful to Rhea, who you also fight there. Some more freedom would allow for battles at a Duke's Manor and Royal Castle, respectively. It's just weird.​
    • White Clouds can have some more variety. For instance, you can cut out some of the Death Knight fights in Edelgard WC (helps to put the trash ass Dark Seals in chests or other enemy units). Blue Lions, on the other hand, have the guy act as some psuedo-Black Knight through gameplay; have him show up at the most inopportune moments and be invulnerable to damage in some chapters. Helps the guy have some fear factor and not be a joke in repeated playthroughs.​
  • Have Claude and the Golden Deer... just be there:
    • Given the only two route scenario between Edelgard and Dimitri, just have Claude and the Golden Gang just be special "extra" characters.
  • You can choose to support with the Golden Deer, but have Claude be a "special case:"
    • If you reach a certain rank with him, he'll be an ally once in a while, along with other Golden Deer members on certain maps (also gives more "choices that matter" to the game).​
    • If you don't, then he'll just work with the enemy. Considering "Master Tactician" Claude, he'll go for the team with the stacked deck; CF has a deadlock vs. Rhea and Dimitri, which a neutral Claude could easily help to break; and AM has a opposing Edelgard with a coup in Faerghus.​
    • In this case, he and the rest of GD will serve as the allies to either you or the enemy at Gronder, for instance.​
  • When all's said in done with the two routes, have the Golden Deer route be lol DLC:
    • You already saw how decent or great those units where in the two routes, so you'll be more likely to know how they roll.​
    • None of that "muh Golden Ending," however in the spirit of le two routes, you get to decide out of Eagles or Lions, who to roll alongside with and have as frequent allied units, who for our sakes, are playable. Imagine Golden Deer with Raging Storm or Atrocity at a certain disposal. Or you could play it solo...​
Out of all of these autistic ideas, the only things still rattling on in my mind are final bosses, and bosses in general, but I'll focus on the former:
  1. Azure Moon is the easiest case, and a given: Hegemon Edelgard. Byleth, Dimitri and Rhea, along with everyone else, take this beast on in a final climatic battle, and TWSITD is dealt with unknowingly throughout the campaign. That usual ending or continue on with a "another, more final battle" with Nemesis because Rhea is active and exists more in this route.
  2. Crimson Flower... lol have a Boss Rush; fight Great Lord Dimitri in the Throne Room, and then after, you have to fight Immaculate One as the throne room progressive burns, just to keep the spirit of the original CF final map. Think going up to fight Garon and then, going down to fight Takumi in Conquest. And with more chapters, you finish off TWSITD. And like Golden Deer, Thales nukage releases Nemesis, who you defeat to purge the group from the continent for good.
  3. Golden DLC would be the similar to Azure Moon if you side with Dimitri; you fight with Hegemon Edie because with both sides working as one, she needs to turn the tide. Then, you fight Slithers and Nemesis because lol Hubert letter. If you side with Edelgard, I guess you take down Mad King Dimitri, get Claude the answers out of a still captured Rhea, help out against Slithers and Nemesis. And finally, playing it solo will lead you to take out both lords (Edelgard, because reasons, and Dimitri is even more unhinged, especially without "your guidance."). Then, it would be the usual rescue Rhea, Hubert letter to fight Slithers, get Rhea answers, and defeat Nemesis.
Given how storied in lore Nemesis is during the course of it the campaigns, for the three routes, I figured that he should make an appearance, boss-wise at least.
Ah, what an effortpost, but I really do love thinking up and ideacrafting a definitive version of Three Houses. And if you actually read all of that shit, feel free to tell me about any holes or patches I left open. Discussion is golden, I feel.
 
X-Shaped Weeaboo said:
I could rant how Edelgard and Claude never working together despite literally being the perfect intellectual duo that have similar goals again and how Dimitri is a piece of crap who people fanboy over because grungy woobies always get doted on is sus, but instead I want to reference the fact that 3 Houses, a game touted for it's supposed amazing world-building and characters, have the majority of the classmates get shunted out of the plot the second the time-skip shows up and people don't recognize that because most of them die and that makes people feel bad.

Seriously, the students don't contribute to anything. Not really, anyways. I don't get how Awakening continues to get shit on for supposedly superfluous characters when the fan-favorite characters of 3 Houses (characters like Dorothea, Bernadetta, Fernadad, Ashe, heck even Felix to a certain extend) are barely cliffnotes in the grand scheme of things.

Even Fates was better in this regard, and Fates has infinitely worse writing.
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As someone who hates Awakening and thinks 3 houses as a whole is generally okay, Awakening's characters suck because they're just kind of boring most the time. I know potential vs execution, but Awakening feels like it is asleep at the wheel and just going through the motions most the time so it kind of just bumbles to an ending. It adds characters like Say'ri or Cherche who show up slightly nudge the plot forward and then fuck off the rest of the story. Also avatar only S rank characters feel superfluous for gameplay reasons because of how big support bonuses are and Awakening has a good chunk of those. The only big thing I feel Awakening remotely accomplished was making a time travel story that was decently compelling and not headache inducing. The issue with that is most that content is optional so its plot relevance barely gets talked about once Lucina joins and the best part in the Lucina crew's entire writing is DLC.

The only really relevant characters in Fates are the royals, Corncob, and to a minor extent Kaze, Jakob/Felicia, and Gunther. Hana doesn't matter, Effie doesn't matter, the Awakening trio are just cameos, I can go on. Fire Emblem doesn't make its side characters do much that is plot relevant. The Greil Mercs can be summed up as Ike, Soren, and Titania the vast majority of the time and that is a collective group that is driving the plot forward in two different games yet most of its members barely matter. The green haired brothers, Gatrie, Mia, and Shinon don't matter. Some of them add a decent amount to the world, kind of like some of the side characters in 3H like Lorenz or Ferdie, but their plot importance is very little.

Fire emblem isn't like a traditional RPG where everyone party member has big plot details and all push the plot forward or adding very worthwhile elements constantly as a collective group. You get your one or two things, and the rest are supports for about 80%~ of the cast. The question is how much do the side characters add to the world and do their one or two moments feel relevant? 3 houses I feel tries to have that, but the main plot is so botched that it doesn't matter half the time. I still will say Lorenz is a huge waste of potential where his interesting politically charged interactions with Claude just stops mattering after we go to time skip.
 
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