Fire Emblem series

[Sayon]

I was referring to how it reveals that the CoS apparently outlawed technology like telescopes (aka something out of reddit/New Atheist history). A few posts on tumblr (namely here: https://agoddamn.tumblr.com/post/190867625055/the-werdna-agoddamn-the-werdna) going over how it kinda falls apart upon scrutiny and comes off as again, an attempt to make the CoS look more "evil" in the wake of how apparently the base game didn't do so enough.

On that note, Rhea is more or less the only really grey character in THs since the plot actually lets you decide whether her actions were best or not (instead of the plot warping the characters outside of your faction and in your faction so that player/Byleth is never wrong) and she always gets held accountable unless you marry her.

 

[CheezzyMach]

Honestly I like Fates and don't consider it any worse then Awakening in terms of plot bullshit. * aside from Conquest where every character is braindead *

 

[AzuraAquafina]

Honestly, the first time I read the shadow library I took it with a grain of salt. It doesn't take that much critical thinking to realize that you shouldn't take every source outside of the CoS as gospel. If an Agarthan wrote a book about Sothis, then of course they're going to shit talk her. Does that mean you should take it at face value?

Honestly I like Fates and don't consider it any worse then Awakening in terms of plot bullshit. * aside from Conquest where every character is braindead *

I think in terms of writing, Fateswakening should be given a little more credit than it deserves. Yeah, it's probably the lowest point in the series with the Valla curse and whatnot, but both had something going for it. Fates had some well-written characters and Awakening had some layer of depth with its politics in the early game. I get kind of annoyed when people act as if there's nothing redeemable about these games but jizz all over 3H.

 

[Sneak 'n' Snore]

I get kind of annoyed when people act as if there's nothing redeemable about these games but jizz all over 3H.

I find it especially jarring considering that the most common complaints about Awakening or Fates regarding their characters or map designs can also more or less be applied to 3H.
Even Fates worst characters have some decent supports and I can at least skip through dialogue. I'm kinda willing to make that trade if it means have Conquest's maps and ideas

 

[Trashfire Garbagefuck]

Berwick Saga on the ps2 just got translated. I had no idea there was even a translation project going. if you've got a computer beefy enough to emulate ps2 or a modded ps2 (very easy to softmod, you can even buy a freemcboot memory card prehacked and some blank dvds, or do it yourself on an internal hard drive with ISOs on it) it's worth checking out. like Tearring Saga it's more "fuck you nintendo I'll make fire emblem on my own". idk how that kaga guy didn't get sued. supposedly path of radiance may have used the same notes for development as this game did, but they go in very different directions for gameplay. it's got an hexagonal map system too which is unique. most tactical rpgs are square grids.

I'm definitely gonna play this after I beat Tearring Saga.

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

Do the new characters join you at the monastery?

 

[AzuraAquafina]

Do the new characters join you at the monastery?

Depends how far you are in the side-story. If you finished, then you can pick them up immediately. Just go to the guy near your room and you should find the DLC characters there to be recruited.

 

[Sayon]

So after doing some thinking:

Spoiler

I think the plot's biggest problems overall root in the protagonist, the Lords, Rhea, and Team Slithery

For the protagonist, the problem here is that Byleth is in the awkward position of being too bland to be compelling but way too integral to the overall plot/setting to be just a tool for the player ala Mark from Blazing Blade. This impacts things like siding with Edelgard (where it comes off that the only way Byleth ever sides with her is that the too are close). And mind you, we don't get dialogue trees like in a Bioware game so it's not like you mold Byleth's personality so that something like the above siding can work from agreeing with Edel's politics.

For the Lords, they all suffer from how they radically shift depending on the route and each ending has a "AND THEY ALL LIVED HAPPY MUH GOLDEN AGE" so that the protagonist is never wrong. Edelgard's Warcrime Theater never happens in her route, Dimitri's bloodlust in his route just amounts to torturing soldiers who were actively out to kill him/his subjects and he ends up as "The Good King", Claude wanting the Sword of the Creator and his ties to the barbarians next door are glanced aside in his route.

Rhea's actually a legit grey and interesting character who the plot doesn't try too hard to whitewash or hit over the head on being a big meanie. Problem with her is that the plot they made depends too much on her being bad at her job so that not only can Edelgard's hostility to her despite all that the Slithers have done can look legit but also so that both the empire and Slither's activities can take off how they did unopposed until it's too late.

And last there's the Slithers. They're in some narrative curse where the plot depends on them being hypercompetent enough to run circles around Rhea and infiltrate the empire she helped found but not hypercompetent enough to have a better plan to deal with Edelgard than "launch. missile." Doubly since a certain Ashen Wolf character's solo ending has her whooping the Slithers.

There's other problems I'm sure (like how the recruit system suffered from having to let the player have as many options as available regardless of how it didn't suit the characters) but these stand-out.

 

[SnowBall]

I was referring to how it reveals that the CoS apparently outlawed technology like telescopes (aka something out of reddit/New Atheist history). A few posts on tumblr (namely here: https://agoddamn.tumblr.com/post/190867625055/the-werdna-agoddamn-the-werdna) going over how it kinda falls apart upon scrutiny and comes off as again, an attempt to make the CoS look more "evil" in the wake of how apparently the base game didn't do so enough.

On that note, Rhea is more or less the only really grey character in THs since the plot actually lets you decide whether her actions were best or not (instead of the plot warping the characters outside of your faction and in your faction so that player/Byleth is never wrong) and she always gets held accountable unless you marry her.

That is the Fates stan I mentioned before. Agoddamn used to be ok but she has gone off the deep end ever since 3H came out. Even though she does have some good points she tends to get hostile towards people who disagree with her.

 

[AzuraAquafina]

For the Lords, they all suffer from how they radically shift depending on the route and each ending has a "AND THEY ALL LIVED HAPPY MUH GOLDEN AGE" so that the protagonist is never wrong. Edelgard's Warcrime Theater never happens in her route, Dimitri's bloodlust in his route just amounts to torturing soldiers who were actively out to kill him/his subjects and he ends up as "The Good King", Claude wanting the Sword of the Creator and his ties to the barbarians next door are glanced aside in his route.

I think this is the reason why stan culture is so bad in this game. All three characters are heavily flawed but the game outright refuses to acknowledge this when you go into each route. The only exception is maybe Dimitri, although, the game cures his mental instability in a few poorly-executed scenes, so I consider that as a whitewash. I find it pretty annoying when I see someone post an "EDELGARD/DIMITRI DID NOTHING WRONG!" post on Reddit.

I know some of the people here like Rhea and all, but I find her support with Byleth a bit creepy. Sure, with context it makes sense why Rhea is behaving this way, but it doesn't really seem like that when I put my feet in Byleth's shoes. I like Rhea, but her support just isn't for me.

 

[X-Shaped Weeaboo]

I think this is the reason why stan culture is so bad in this game. All three characters are heavily flawed but the game outright refuses to acknowledge this when you go into each route. The only exception is maybe Dimitri, although, the game cures his mental instability in a few poorly-executed scenes, so I consider that as a whitewash. I find it pretty annoying when I see someone post an "EDELGARD/DIMITRI DID NOTHING WRONG!" post on Reddit.

I know some of the people here like Rhea and all, but I find her support with Byleth a bit creepy. Sure, with context it makes sense why Rhea is behaving this way, but it doesn't really seem like that when I put my feet in Byleth's shoes. I like Rhea, but her support just isn't for me.

I meme a bout stanning Edelgard when chatting up my Fire Emblem Bros, but I really am kind of bitter about how one-dimensional the interactions between the main characters are in each of the routes especially considering how well everything else is written. I hate that you can never give Edelgard a chance to challenge her stance ideologically without kissing up to the empire given her backstory and interactions/opinions of the other Lords in the game are much, much more charitable even post time-skip compared to Claude's dismissal of pretty much everyone in his route and Dimitri's everything. (To an extent, anyways) I hate that Dimitri's route is basically Sasuke Uchiha's entire character arc in Naruto sans the part where his fuck-ups truly come back to haunt him and he wins in the end despite clearly being the least mentally sound Lord. And I especially hate the fucking tease in Claude's route regarding his distrust of Rhea and the Church, his (too few) scenes where he clearly intellectually bounces off of Edelgard, and the empty promise that is exploring the rampant opportunistic attitudes present in Fodlan that could be argued as the true vice in the story that causes the bulk of the suffering. (Something Claude himself can arguably be called as just as being guilty of.)

Rhea's got a lot going for her that certainly makes her stand out as a character and a influence on the story, and how twisted a lot of who she is admittedly was probably intentional, but I found myself wanting to fucking axe her in every route because I just can't stand someone so conniving and delusional. She created a society where she got to stay at the top allowing herself to do fuck all while still feeling entitled to everyone's loyalty yet when she oversteps boundaries I have to push and shove to get any sort of catharsis or answer out of her. Say what you will about Jeralt, I simply cannot be more open to her character when he spends the entire story rightfully distrustful of her. Couple that with her blatantly lying about him after his death and never really getting called out on her manipulative behaviors makes her an incredibly unpleasant presence on the story that you rarely get a break from considering the other Lords don't do a good job at all comparing to her. (From a story-telling perspective, not a character one.) She's decently well-written, yes, but I still don't like her.

There's a lot that you can work with regarding 3 Houses' plot. I like what I have, but it only disappointing me that Ashen Wolves didn't do more for the story simply because they don't want to overwrite the choices the player can make.

Intsys, please. I can just ignore DLC if I wanted a pure Golden Deer run. Having post-release content have new interpretations of the story is not something I imagine most players will care about, especially if you avoid the "Golden Ending" pitfalls that Revelations was years prior.

 

[AzuraAquafina]

Honestly, I don't particularly like 3H's writing in general. Maybe because the game shares similar staff to Echoes, but a lot of the writing really rubs me the wrong way.

(To an extent, anyways) I hate that Dimitri's route is basically Sasuke Uchiha's entire character arc in Naruto sans the part where his fuck-ups truly come back to haunt him and he wins in the end despite clearly being the least mentally sound Lord.

What bothered me about AM is that not only was Dimitri a massive edgelord, but overall his character arc felt poorly-paced and executed. The most obvious example is the scene that takes place after the continental threesome.

Spoiler

Not only was Rodrigue's death very predictable, but it was incredibly melodramatic to a degree that I couldn't take seriously. Even the image they used is melodramatic, although, that might be the fault of the artist since I assume they did the S-rank art. And we all know how bad some of the S-rank art is.

The scene didn't feel like it was trying to develop Dimitri's character, rather it felt more like checking off a checklist. I'm fine with killing fathers or father-figures in a story, Fire Emblem does it all the time. I hate to say this, but the scene had as much tact as some of the deaths in Fates. The writers couldn't be bothered to write or develop the scene better so they had to use melodrama to overcompensate. Kind of like how they use trauma or tragedy to cheaply overcompensate one-note characters. But, lol, apparently these things automatically make a character deep or something.

The scene afterward was fine I guess, it did a good job into tricking me and others into thinking that Dimtri's arc was well-written. However, the scene after makes it seem that his mental hangups are cured overnight. I know in-game a week or so has passed, but the passage of time is so poorly immersed that it might as well be the next day. The game does try to bring up that he's still mentally troubled, but it never really manifest or goes anywhere. Just like Edelgard, it feels like they removed his major flaws so they could make him husbando material. Very inept way of handling mental illness.

 

[Guts Gets Some]

I still haven't gotten to Three Houses, but it's on my to-do list, for sure. Gotta say though, the critical hit animations, with the wonky CGI graphics, are offputting. I miss the classic hand-drawn faces from Fates, and wish they had gone that route. The derp mouth on everyone is obvious, and I don't know how they could've been okay with it.

 

[AzuraAquafina]

I still haven't gotten to Three Houses, but it's on my to-do list, for sure. Gotta say though, the critical hit animations, with the wonky CGI graphics, are offputting. I miss the classic hand-drawn faces from Fates, and wish they had gone that route. The derp mouth on everyone is obvious, and I don't know how they could've been okay with it.

One thing I noticed but not sure if anyone has is that everyone is glowing, literally.

Some of the animations are pretty good, such as the gauntlet animations or the lords' exclusive animations. But the mounted animations kinda trigger me. The critical animation for a pegasus knight wielding a bow is just three quick consecutive shots. It looks really sloppy with how quickly the shots are fired. I also hate how all modern FE games are making cavs twirl their horse around to attack. I'm pretty sure that's not how horses work.

 

[X-Shaped Weeaboo]

One thing I noticed but not sure if anyone has is that everyone is glowing, literally.

Some of the animations are pretty good, such as the gauntlet animations or the lords' exclusive animations. But the mounted animations kinda trigger me. The critical animation for a pegasus knight wielding a bow is just three quick consecutive shots. It looks really sloppy with how quickly the shots are fired. I also hate how all modern FE games are making cavs twirl their horse around to attack. I'm pretty sure that's not how horses work.

Jumping to 3D has unquestionably hurt Fire Emblem's presentation in-game because animations and graphics have aged horribly since they made the jump.

I give Awakening a pass on this the most since they didn't bother with super intensive cutscenes in that game (They probably knew which is why they didn't really try) unlike Fates which, while it clearly had better animation and models, fucked it all up with some of the worst camera direction and posing I've ever seen come out of 3D games. Corrin Naruto-running is actually aids.

 

[AzuraAquafina]

Jumping to 3D has unquestionably hurt Fire Emblem's presentation in-game because animations and graphics have aged horribly since they made the jump.

I give Awakening a pass on this the most since they didn't bother with super intensive cutscenes in that game (They probably knew which is why they didn't really try) unlike Fates which, while it clearly had better animation and models, fucked it all up with some of the worst camera direction and posing I've ever seen come out of 3D games. Corrin Naruto-running is actually aids.

I think this is more of a fault with the industry. A lot of games and animations are transferring to 3D which really hurts the artist since 2D and 3D are two different beasts.

I use to abhor Awakening's animation due to how amateurish it looks. Alongside its story and gameplay, I've kinda mellowed out my opinion of the animation. Especially since the 3DS was a massive jump for Intelligent Systems both graphically and financially. And yet somehow this game had better cutscenes than any modern FE game.

I'm fine with Fates animation, for the most part, considering its game's plot and nonsensical elements can't be taken seriously unless you're Agoddamn. Although I have to admit, the butt camera angle is very distasteful especially when the story is written to be taken seriously no matter fucking stupid it is.

On an unrelated note, I heard there was controversy regarding Project Exile. For those who don't know, Project Exile is a fan-translation of Thracia 776 fueled by group effort. Not sure if it's something people on here are curious especially since Three Houses have taken up a lot of space for discussion.

 

[Trashfire Garbagefuck]

On an unrelated note, I heard there was controversy regarding Project Exile. For those who don't know, Project Exile is a fan-translation of Thracia 776 fueled by group effort. Not sure if it's something people on here are curious especially since Three Houses have taken up a lot of space for discussion.

I'm curious and completely unaware. I've got the game with their translation but I haven't started it yet.

 

[AzuraAquafina]

I'm curious and completely unaware. I've got the game with their translation but I haven't started it yet.

I imagine it's not really a big deal outside of the FE translation community since it's mostly translator infighting and people's grievances with the liberties taken on translating. Basically, someone within the group wanted to make improvements on Project Exile and also expand it to different languages, especially since translating between English and French is easier than Japanese to French. The person in charge of the project, Cirosan I believe, didn't take it well since no permission was requested to them and so both parties had their own private dispute.

Later on, Zane, whom I believe is responsible for translating the menu decided to pull out of the project by having their work removed. The action itself garnered some contention since their work is pretty vital for other translators. It may seem silly on a surface level, but it's worth noting that the translated menu was originally something that was sent privately with explicit permission and then passed around to others publically without the creator's consent.

I can't remember who did this, but this small shit-storm escalated up to a DMCA and a law-suit. Personally, I think it's kinda stupid and short-sided to do since it's a FAN-translation and it's not like ROM-hacking isn't a legally dubious activity. Not that I'm trying to condemn ROM-hacking or anything. Overall, it's a pretty messy situation. I'll try to link anything important if needed.

In regards to the translation itself, some people have expressed grievances with the translator's liberties. You would assume that Project Exile is an accurate translation of the game, but prior to the release, the project has raised some contention with its creative liberties. The project was supposed to add some flavor to the original script, but it seemed it kinda snowballed into borderline fanfiction. I can't say for certain if this is true since I'm not fluent in Japanese or have any knowledge of Thracia's script. I will say that it is important to understand both sides of the coin when it comes to translation; one side is to retain the spirit of the original work and the other is to make interpretations so it's easier for the new audience to enjoy.

I haven't downloaded Project Exile and I never really played Thracia without the Shaya patch, so I don't know if I'll get it my self.

 

[Trashfire Garbagefuck]

I can't remember who did this, but this small shit-storm escalated up to a DMCA and a law-suit. Personally, I think it's kinda stupid and short-sided to do since it's a FAN-translation and it's not like ROM-hacking isn't a legally dubious activity. Not that I'm trying to condemn ROM-hacking or anything. Overall, it's a pretty messy situation. I'll try to link anything important if needed.

so basically, someones's ego was so tied up in making sure their contribution to the project was only in one language that they filed a lawsuit over it. incredible. I get being mad that they didn't ask permission, but that all could have been smoothed over with a simple discussion. it's not like everyone wouldn't still be credited in successive language patches. but nope time to lawyer the fuck up. I dont think this has ever happened before in romhacking history. of course it's over fire emblem, fire emblem fandom people are fuckin crazy. always have been, even before awakening made the series popular. if this lolsuit somehow actually goes to court, I wonder if nintendo might notice. they've tolerated fan translations for decades, but if they hear someone claimed legal ownership of a hack of their game, that might set them off. Then again it might still be too minor.

In regards to the translation itself, some people have expressed grievances with the translator's liberties. You would assume that Project Exile is an accurate translation of the game, but prior to the release, the project has raised some contention with its creative liberties. The project was supposed to add some flavor to the original script, but it seemed it kinda snowballed into borderline fanfiction. I can't say for certain if this is true since I'm not fluent in Japanese or have any knowledge of Thracia's script. I will say that it is important to understand both sides of the coin when it comes to translation; one side is to retain the spirit of the original work and the other is to make interpretations so it's easier for the new audience to enjoy.

I haven't downloaded Project Exile and I never really played Thracia without the Shaya patch, so I don't know if I'll get it my self.

there's definitely a lot of grey between overly literal translation that obscure the nuance and meaning the japanese line had, and over localization that does the same. so I can understand there being disagreements over where the balance is. the language is drastically different from english. but if they're really adding entirely new lines or outright replacing existing lines with their own crap, then that's pretty disappointing.

 

[AzuraAquafina]

so basically, someones's ego was so tied up in making sure their contribution to the project was only in one language that they filed a lawsuit over it.

Ehh, I'm not sure if that's how I would frame it. A lot of the information I have is based on several threads on FEU and one on SF. I believe specifically it started from this thread right here. I'd like to believe there is a better context to this considering a DMCA was filed. I checked again in an FEU thread and it seems like one party claimed copyright over translation. This is one person's side of the story, so take that as a grain of salt. I don't think this will lead to a lolsuit anytime soon considering these are matters between two people, but who knows.

there's definitely a lot of grey between overly literal translation that obscure the nuance and meaning the japanese line had, and over localization that does the same. so I can understand there being disagreements over where the balance is. the language is drastically different from english. but if they're really adding entirely new lines or outright replacing existing lines with their own crap, then that's pretty disappointing.

Again, I'm not certain how many liberties were taken when translating. I know there were disputes with names and whatnot but I don't know how MOTI it got. I think most people agree that no one should out-right change a work of art when translating, but you can only argue for literal translation for so much until you come off as a basement-dwelling weeb who's too autistic to understand why some people are put off by anime. Regardless, the project itself is voluntary, and if people don't like it, then there's always the Shaya patch.