Fire Emblem series

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I bet a lot of people wouldn't mind the Fates model of three-way-whatif-ication as much if it was attached to a game that looked and read like Tactics Ogre instead of abrasive anime bullshit. It's probably a heinous thing to say, but I think the model has some practical potential, and that fans wouldn't mind that style of asset reuse if it meant a wider variety of more games, more often. SoV is a dressed-up NES game and people still like it for it's pretty face and voice despite the creaky knees and bad hip. The hunger is absolutely there; FE is pretty inactive as far as, fuckin, semi-major Nintendo IPs go if you're not into the gacha, so I don't think they'd need to bust their asses on some magic tome of epic internally-consistent lore or legendary relic of perfect and unique game design to satisfy people. I'm defending Rev after all, and since I like Fates and abrasive anime bullshit, that model happened to work out really well for me in that instance, especially since droughts between games are getting longer and more frequent, leaving more time for replays.
Fates's biggest issue is that it ballooned out of control. If you read the pitch documents and a lot of the early story drafts, there's a real blueprint for a masterpiece there. But, the concept was just so big that there became no real way to actualize it in a way that was actually feasible. It was THE biggest, most complicated concept in franchise history, to its own demise.

If I had a genie's lamp, well first I would ask it for enough money to throw into a bank and live comfortably off the interest until I'm 6 feet under. But, after that, I'd ask for a manga spinoff that actually saw all these cool ideas through the way they were intended. Similar to the Twilight Princess manga. (After that, I would ask for the Amakano franchise to get imported lol.)
 
I can only imagine that an SoV or Sacred Stones fan or whatever would be similarly happy if their game got the same three-way-whatif treatment.
As both, yes and no. Sure, more content for FE games like those would be appreciated, but asking IS to do it by cutting the game into thirds is a monkey's paw. Pokemon might not be a 1:1 comparison, but the nickel-and-diming potential (that IS will take advantage of - they were the ones to get the ball rolling for DLC with major Nintendo products and obviously have a heavily monetized gacha) is comparable, mix that with overambition while cutting the game into separate parts that are contingent on you buying them separately and it'd be a disaster.

Honestly, I think that even if Fates had more competent editors/direction it still wouldn't have saved the game from most of its writing problems. 3H's writing is better than Fates - admittedly not saying much - and it (allegedly) has more routes but despite offering all of them in one purchase still suffers from its comparable share of problems, while virtually everyone agrees that Radiant Dawn is a downgrade from Path of Radiance in terms of its writing and pacing. Overambition is IS's most consistent enemy and they haven't really found a way to make multiple armies/choices work in their format that wasn't just incredibly simple split like SS or SoV.
 
Titles like 3H and Fates are exactly the reason why I adore FE7's story so much despite it's flaws.

It's very much small scale compared to other titles but I think of it as an asset instead of a flaw.

Even FE9 could be considered a bit smaller scale too.
In FE9 we're a small mercenary band that eventually grows over time and is then essentially hired by a princess to fight her war.

In FE9 we don't kill god, we kill a mad king who's corrupted by god.
 
I don't think FE 10's problem is that it's too small for its concepts to develop the way Fates, and to a lesser extent, 3H is. I think it's just one or two poorly thought out story ideas that topple the whole castle.

Daein just needs a real motivation to join the war, and most of my big complaints go away. Also, it would be nice if Micaiah were actually a character, but I can live without that. I floated the idea that she could be an unhinged racist earlier in the thread, and I stand by that. Give me Uncle Ruckus as a Fire Emblem protagonist you cowards.
 
I don't think FE 10's problem is that it's too small for its concepts to develop the way Fates, and to a lesser extent, 3H is. I think it's just one or two poorly thought out story ideas that topple the whole castle.

Daein just needs a real motivation to join the war, and most of my big complaints go away. Also, it would be nice if Micaiah were actually a character, but I can live without that. I floated the idea that she could be an unhinged racist earlier in the thread, and I stand by that. Give me Uncle Ruckus as a Fire Emblem protagonist you cowards.
I honestly never paid much mind to Micaiah and I don't know what her deal even is.

She has this suspect at best aged barely clothed boy doing her biding, a bird that is god at her disposal, one of the most powerful people in the world being her white knight and to top it all off she is the true apostle somehow oh and of course she is branded which makes her even more special.

I know this is extremely old takes that border on "Micaiah is a mary sue" but really, what is her deal?
 
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It's very much small scale compared
Not really? You're still stopping an evil sorcerer who can't even remember why he's doing what he's doing from stealing people's souls and opening an extradimensional gate to ignite a world war. IMO the only reason why 7 feels smaller is because the first third of its story is just totally disconnected from the other two-thirds, and those keep shuffling you from setpiece to setpiece before dumping the actual stakes on you in like the last six chapters.
I don't think FE 10's problem is that it's too small for its concepts to develop the way Fates, and to a lesser extent, 3H is. I think it's just one or two poorly thought out story ideas that topple the whole castle.
Daein and the Bloodpact are obviously the two big ones people go to, but Radiant Dawn's cast is also way too large and that drags both the pacing and character writing, and both RD and PoR's casts suffer for it. There's also a bunch of half-retcons in RD that are essentially just plot contrivances; the bloodpact is the biggest, but it also includes stuff like the Serenes Massacre being the work of the Senate and not Ashnard, Lehran being switched from the ancestor of the Heron Royals to the Begnion Apostles, Micaiah as Sanaki's sister being a total asspull and the whole timeline around that and the assassinations just making less sense the more you think about them, etc.
I know this is extremely old takes that border on "Micaiah is a mary sue" but really, what is her deal?
On the topic of this the only reference to Micaiah in PoR was just that Sothe was looking for some nebulous someone, there was nothing in it that made them commit to making Micaiah the way she was (or having to make Micaiah at all). I honestly have to wonder how much was actually planned out in advance or if there were some major revisions between PoR and RD because of how obtuse Micaiah is to the story.
 
@Computer God Autism said:
Not really? You're still stopping an evil sorcerer who can't even remember why he's doing what he's doing from stealing people's souls and opening an extradimensional gate to ignite a world war. IMO the only reason why 7 feels smaller is because the first third of its story is just totally disconnected from the other two-thirds, and those keep shuffling you from setpiece to setpiece before dumping the actual stakes on you in like the last six chapters.

Can't quote directly so i'm doing it like this.
I disagree with this take whole heartedly honestly, FE7 has small stakes compared to other FE games and the journey is a lot more personal than just wanting to stop an evil empire.

Say what you want about Lyn mode, I think it succeeded what it was going for.
1. It was supposed to be a tutorial about FE in general
2. It told a very small scale and very personal story about Lyn
3. It put a lot of focus on the non-main characters, seriously, Kent, Sain, Florina and co get a lot of personality and often get to chime in, its very charming. The only dud out of the Lyn mode cast may arguably be Wil.

And while Lyn mode may be rather disconnected story-wise from the other two modes, those two modes are still about very personal journeys.

Eliwood searches the land for his missing father and slowly uncovers a conspiracy involving a clan of assassins being controlled by a very powerful sorcerer.
Hector immediately upon hearing about his friend's plight insists on helping him and when his brother refuses to do so he storms out of the castle on his own.

I happen to find it all very endearing, the focus on the characters and their personal stories are what got me hooked on the franchise to begin with.
You're not told Hector and Eliwood are best friends, you get to see it through their actions and chemistry.

And even disregarding all of that, what does Eliwood's party have in terms of feats compared to other FE parties?

They kill one weakened dragon
They kill a very powerful Sorcerer in Nergal who's on par with Athos, basically think a Gharnef and Gotoh type of situation?
They fight a bunch of mostly Morph and Assassin armies and such, kill that one anti magic field morph.
I guess they fought Laus' army head on.

And that's about it really.

Compare that to FE6, Roy's army that:
Fought several standing armies including Sacae, Ilia and Bern and Zephiel himself who is no slouch
Fought many many manaketes
Fought a non weakened dragon (Yarne or whatever his name is)
Fought the most powerful dragon mother of them all (Idoun)

And even Roy's army pales in comparison to FE4's army that consists of mostly demi-gods fighting other demi-gods and literally Satan's child.
 
I agree with most of your post but Roy had a weapon that was pretty much custom-built for this, to be fair.
Idunn wasn't even really a fighter either. Her existence was almost entirely to create homunculi and she tended to space out when she went without proper orders, perhaps it is unsurprising then that a wimpy support unit wasn't much of a physical threat.
 
I happen to find it all very endearing, the focus on the characters and their personal stories are what got me hooked on the franchise to begin with.
Sure, but this could be said the same about any number of FE games - stopping the evil empire is often just a vector for that, and given the Black Fang use more Bishops and Paladins than actual assassins and are able to puppet multiple states and attempt regicide with impunity, they functionally are one. I also think you're understating how ridiculous Nergal's powers are; the guy can just outright create life - in the form of supersoldiers - by stealing souls. That's something even Ashera and Naga can't do. FE7 has a smaller scale, sure, but I was arguing stakes and stopping Nergal from incidentally doing what Zephiel wanted to do later as a stepping-stone to becoming a god is absolutely comparable.
 
Sure, but this could be said the same about any number of FE games - stopping the evil empire is often just a vector for that, and given the Black Fang use more Bishops and Paladins than actual assassins and are able to puppet multiple states and attempt regicide with impunity, they functionally are one. I also think you're understating how ridiculous Nergal's powers are; the guy can just outright create life - in the form of supersoldiers - by stealing souls. That's something even Ashera and Naga can't do. FE7 has a smaller scale, sure, but I was arguing stakes and stopping Nergal from incidentally doing what Zephiel wanted to do later as a stepping-stone to becoming a god is absolutely comparable.
Yeah, i'm aware that the Black Fang from a gameplay perspective are more or less the same as a standing army.
I view this more as a gameplay concession and if FE7 were to be remade I would hope they'd make the Black Fang much fewer in numbers.

Like instead of 20 fodder enemies its 10 fodder enemies, 5 promoted enemies and a very beefy Engage-Tier boss with multiple health bars. Though you do have a point about Nergal, he is much more powerful than I gave him credit for but honestly I love the concept of it.

Most of the morphs we see during gameplay, the generics and such, they are most likely little more than zombis mindlessly fulfilling orders like the morphs of the bosses in the final chapter or Denning who was entirely created to say one sentence.

But the big 3, Limstella, Ephidel and Sonia are more or less human with distinctive personalities and actual feelings. Sonia is very self absorbed, prideful and even feels disgust from having to be with Brendan. Ephidel meanwhile literally dies with fear, screaming for his master to save him. Though its interesting that Nergal considers Limstella his perfect morph, the one with the most subdued personality.
 
Which console/system do you think had the best games? Gamecube+Wii? GBA? 3DS?

For my money it's GBA, I love 7 and 8.
 
Which console/system do you think had the best games? Gamecube+Wii? GBA? 3DS?

For my money it's GBA, I love 7 and 8.
I did make a tier list a while back but I think I can generalize each platform's games sufficiently.

NES+SNES

NES games were obviously the start, comparatively bare bones and the series trying to find it's footing with successful ideas in both games.

The SNES games were all 3 very different games,
Mystery was more or less just a remake, Genealogy was very different with many ideas that didnt quite work
Thracia went back to a more classic approach with some interesting ideas, fuck its fog of war though, let me at least see the map.

GBA

The GBA games were all very similar with only FE8 incorporating some Gaiden mechanics with the world map and infinite grinding.
They're just pure gameplay with not much bullshit added in and what FE in my eyes should return to.

GC+WII

PoR is again just a classic FE game following the GBA standards, it fixed the support system and introduced forging.
It also introduced Laguz and while they're interesting on paper they are simply terrible as units.

Laguz are locked to 1 range and ONE WEAPON units that can only attack half the time they exist on the map, they have no effective damage, special weapons, no cool thing only they can do.
It is absolutely baffling to me what IS was thinking with them, yeah, lets have a unit that can't do anything for half the time they fucking exist.
The only reason the Laguz Royals are any good is because they come with bonkers stats AND get to ignore being a Laguz by never having to shift, ridiculous.
Sadly its bogged down by very slow gameplay, making it a chore to replay.

RD is just all over the fucking place in very weird ways
Sometimes you wildly jump around from army to army
Sometimes you just get some broken character that can solo the map (Nailah, Tauroneo, Tibarn, Black Knight etc)
You can lose characters in the Dawn Brigade (weakest army) by having them defect to the Greil Mercenaries (strongest army)
The support system fucking blows
Some characters are literally unusable because...you only have them for 1.5 chapters before endgame (Tormod, Mordecai, Vika)
Somehow they made non-royal Laguz even worse by slashing both their exp gain AND their growths, Cats in particular have it rough cause they lose their form so quickly, I believe the only non-royal Laguz that are any amount of viable are Janaff and Ulki since they come in at almost level 30 with very beefy stats.
But still the game is good, enjoyed the story to an extent and the difficulty is just right for me, plus the BEXP system is neat.

DS

DS was just remakes of the Archanea games and while I adore Shadow Dragon its hard to deny its flaws.
It has a pretty crappy art-style but at least the gameplay was great, H4 was a great difficulty and H5 gets good after the first four chapters of slog.
New Mystery isn't really worth talking about, or at least I have not much to say about it other than Kris is the worst avatar of the series since he takes scenes away from other characters.

3DS

3DS was kind of the beginning of the end for me with the series, ironic since many say Awakening saved the series.
3DS is what I would say is the Millenial writing stage for Fire Emblem, you get a lot more quirky one note characters, the plot is rarely taken seriously with it's ironic jabs and pointing out how played out it is and of course you can marry every unit you want with your avatar character.

Awakening had shockingly terribly designed maps and even worse unit balancing, you just get a Female Robin, stick Chrom on her and have them clear the whole game while you skip enemy phase.

Fates has been talked to death about, Corrin sucks, plot sucks, units personalities suck but at least Conquest is very, very good gameplay wise.

Shadows of Valentia is a great one-time experience, great stories, great characters, great art and soundtrack, it all works so well together but uh oh...its just 1:1 using maps from Gaiden, an NES title.
Play it once but you don't need to replay it, never managed to get myself to do it anyway.

At the very least the 3DS games kept getting better, Awakening was the worst, Fates (Conquest) was better and Shadows of Valentia was the best out of the three overall.

Switch

I admit, I barely played 3H or Engage, don't have much a desire to play either of them,
3H is barely a Fire Emblem game as it is, you have this shit monastery bullshit, dating mechanics, fishing minigame, huge ass monastery map to slowly jog through to pick up bullshit to play the game...
And not much needs to be said about Engage, just what the hell were they thinking.


Overall I say the GBA games provide the best baseline FE experience, no bullshit, no waifu shit, no padding monastery bullshit- its just you go from chapter to chapter and kill dudes, nothing else.
Less is more as they say.
 
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Shadows of Valentia is a great one-time experience, great stories, great characters, great art and soundtrack, it all works so well together but uh oh...its just 1:1 using maps from Gaiden, an NES title.
Play it once but you don't need to replay it, never managed to get myself to do it anyway.
I'm weird. I've played SOV 5 times. Fuckin' love that game.
 
I'm weird. I've played SOV 5 times. Fuckin' love that game.
Well, that's the appeal of FE; you don't *need* to replay any of them, but they're designed in a way to bring out the most of whatever draws you to them in a replay.

I will also disagree with the idea that there wasn't 'waifu shit' in GBA emblem. Even setting aside Mrs. Thickness' Gamefaqs retrospective some forty pages ago, I'm convinced a big reason why FE7 has the amount of nostalgia that it has is because Lyn was a crush of a lot of oldheads (I'll be cynical and say that Mark's only purpose is to facilitate that). I don't think there's anything wrong with that either; the most consistently memorable aspect of FE's gameplay is forming parasocial attachments to chess pieces across those replays, whether it's getting blessed by RNGJesus on an awful unit, making a story for yourself about their performance with specific weapons/against specific bosses, or simping for Path of Radiance Mia enough that you use her aside from her intended role as Nephenee's bench warmer.
 
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