Fire Emblem series

[NerdShamer]

Are the endgame classes actually worthwhile instead of five versions of the same thing, like Three Houses had?

It's more of an situational thing, since the classes have exactly one unique, non-transferable skill and most of them are dependent on your positioning

Can I meld and merge classes to make gods?

Short answer: No, you need the rings for that

Is the game worth buying?

Not at MSRP

 

[mrs thickness]

Ok, I'll bite. I've seen "only newfags besmirch the rich history of Internet Respecting Fire Emblem Stories and Characters, only ADHD newfags like this genre for the gameplay" for a few years now. I decided to go on a dive through the catacombs of pre-2010 GameFAQs to retrieve some ancient glyphs written by psychopaths, retards, and children that, ideally, show this wasn't always just a discourse goblin series (Happy 5th Anniversary, Fire Emblem: Three Houses!)

Spoiler

This is by no means comprehensive or representative of the 'average' FE fan at the time, nothing could be, it's just to show that this "eh, it's fine, I can take it or leave it" mentality didn't start with jilted Fatesfags like me having a chip on their shoulder. We've always been around and, frankly, you're telling on yourself in one or another for not recognizing it. One thing I thought was interesting was how often the word 'cliche' came up; it's full-on the elder equivalent of how the modern fanbase, particularly the more pretentious side, throws around the word 'tropey'. Nothing really changes.

Waifufags and coomers were very prominent in this series pre-Awakening too, no matter how much the rose-tinted culture grandpas like to pretend otherwise.

I mean, yeah I know it's just cope from illiterate, non-sapients. But, that's just one of those observations you keep quiet about while you ask probing questions to try and spark discussion.

I know some coping illiterate non-sapients. One of them plays Fire Emblem for the story despite only liking maybe half of them (mostly from 20+ years ago, also), has a decade-plus-old Fire Emblem youtube channel and still regularly fails at double-digit addition and subtraction, and can't pronounce the words in the first hour of his own rom hack like 'Pisces,' 'surreptitiously,' and various other words containing more than three syllables. The 2023 rom hack with Skyrim references. Especially arrow to the knee. A rom hack that I still really, REALLY like, by the way. I don't give a fuck what anyone like that's """"""standards"""""" are on what is and isn't mediocre, cringey writing in the scrimblo bimblo game. People like Three Houses writing because the characters generally have easily-identifiable arcs, a shockingly rare privelege in FE. People like Hector, Ephraim, Ike, and Sigurd for being epicly badass and more fulfilling to project themselves onto, compared to the meeker, naive, pretty boy modern protagonists.

Which were also not invented by Komuro.

 

[NerdShamer]

and still regularly fails at double-digit addition and subtraction

How in the fuck is he playing FE, then?

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Apparently, and take this with a grain of salt, but the people involved in the FE community that have been working on AI Art generators for FE style portraits have gooned their brains out into becoming very redditor-ish and might have fallen down a slippery slope.

If this brews up I'll try to get more funny stuff.

 

[Nobody In Particular]

2000s era Fire Emblem is far from the upper echelon of game stories I like. Just so I'm clear. But, I simply don't agree with the notion that they're bad. I think the idea just comes from a warped perspective of what "good" game narratives should be. Fire Emblem rarely comments on prescient social or philosophical issues beyond VERY basic concepts. Fire Emblem isn't Deus Ex, it isn't Bioshock. Fire Emblem is a very simple adaptation of the Heroes Journey, AND THAT'S FINE. Even the Tellius saga, which makes racism a central plot point, doesn't posit a very progressive solution; and instead opts for a very standard, Liberal, solution to the problem. Forget past grievances and promise to try better in the future. Internet funnymen don't usually respond to that sort of thing.

 

[Heddo Eburynyan]

Apparently, and take this with a grain of salt, but the people involved in the FE community that have been working on AI Art generators for FE style portraits have gooned their brains out into becoming very redditor-ish and might have fallen down a slippery slope.

If this brews up I'll try to get more funny stuff.

If this is talking about anything FEU adjacent, then yeah. I joined FEU years back before it got as big as it is now and I've gotten to watch it become a tranny-filled coomer paradise full of spergs trying to get their 15 minutes of fame in a super niche community. There's drama all the time and everybody involved is worse for it.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

If this is talking about anything FEU adjacent, then yeah. I joined FEU years back before it got as big as it is now and I've gotten to watch it become a tranny-filled coomer paradise full of spergs trying to get their 15 minutes of fame in a super niche community. There's drama all the time and everybody involved is worse for it.

they banned the BErwick Saga youtuber, Donlot, because he said very mildly edgy memes 3 years ago on a server that has nothing to do with FEU.

honestly that Dancer guy could have a post of his own.

 

[Heddo Eburynyan]

they banned the BErwick Saga youtuber, Donlot, because he said very mildly edgy memes 3 years ago on a server that has nothing to do with FEU.

honestly that Dancer guy could have a post of his own.

Most of the mods or notable members could have posts made about them. You've got people like Dancer, Klok, and some others I'm not thinking of that are all fairly weird people

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Most of the mods or notable members could have posts made about them. You've got people like Dancer, Klok, and some others I'm not thinking of that are all fairly weird people

my personal community lolcows are ones named Purple Mage, Gramer Nazy, and Kartal.

 

[Angry Muda]

Mekkahs mr.beast video ages poorly every day now

 

[Sneak 'n' Snore]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=4tI6CRDLk9oMekkahs mr.beast video ages poorly every day now

Fire Emblem?
The newest comments already point out how wrong he was and I found the most wrong comment ever:

 

[Computer God Autism]

2000s era Fire Emblem is far from the upper echelon of game stories I like. Just so I'm clear. But, I simply don't agree with the notion that they're bad. I think the idea just comes from a warped perspective of what "good" game narratives should be. Fire Emblem rarely comments on prescient social or philosophical issues beyond VERY basic concepts. Fire Emblem isn't Deus Ex, it isn't Bioshock. Fire Emblem is a very simple adaptation of the Heroes Journey, AND THAT'S FINE. Even the Tellius saga, which makes racism a central plot point, doesn't posit a very progressive solution; and instead opts for a very standard, Liberal, solution to the problem. Forget past grievances and promise to try better in the future. Internet funnymen don't usually respond to that sort of thing.

Imo, the FE fandom's biggest problem has always been elitism. While the most obvious examples come from the attitudes people have around units in a traditionally single-player series with usually linear gameplay, it factors into most discussions about the writing too. In hindsight it is funny that most of the criticisms of the writing in Awakening - the game that suddenly made all the FE oldfags incredibly nostalgic for Elibe's writing despite it being incredibly contentious prior - were that it's too simple or straightforward when the game was just a celebration of FE's tropes. I think FE's greatest strengths in its writing have always been in its characters and character dynamics, tropey or not.

 

[Metallic Blood]

I think FE's greatest strengths in its writing have always been in its characters and character dynamics, tropey or not.

Tbh, I do find kinda sad that FE's writing team are leading way too much on character and their dialogue/dynamics over anything else nowadays... but I couldn't agree more.

I have such a "love-hate" relationship with modern FE writing... in one hand, I actually much prefer having a memorable cast (even if it's for the wrong reasons) over a forgettable one, like, I can't for the life of me remember anyone from Thracia besides the units that I used (don't even ask me what are their personalities) + the very important story characters, but I sure can remember Engage's cast... even again, if it's for the wrong reasons sometimes.

On the other hand, all FE's before Awakening had such an amazing worldbuiding and even interesting plotlines, and seeing that gone is just... sad. 3H was going in the right direction, but you can see that while the character dynamics are almost perfect, there was something undercooked with aspects of its main story + world.

Maybe a FE4 remake with extra dialogue could fix that eh? Who knows?

 

[Quartermaster]

Maybe a FE4 remake with extra dialogue could fix that eh? Who knows?

I like this kind of point because FE4 in particular has incredibly weak characters that are barely a step above the Archanea characters.

How much extra dialogue would be needed?

Let's take Azel as an example, he is the half-brother of basically the main villain of the game and how many lines or scenes does he get?

He has his recruitment convo where he comes in with Lex.
Its a pretty anime conversation where Lex teases him about having a crush on Aideen and he acts all flustered.

He never ever talks to Arvis and I don't think he even mentions him.

And after that..?
I don't remember if he can talk to Sigurd at some point in the prologue.
Then he can trigger a few love conversations, talk to his spouse in the castle and in the last chapter he tells his spouse to leave and take care of the children.

So in the time he is playable he has at best 4 or 5 conversations and about 20 lines?

So, his personality is that he is an easily flustered guy with a heart of gold who's relationship with his brother isn't elaborated on.

It's not exactly a lot to go off of for a potential remake to add more to him without essentially turning him into a different character by making up a bunch of stuff.


And Azel is a character that is related to the main villain, guys like Holyn, Beowulf and Noish have it way worse than him.

 

[Vapor Sauce]

I think FE's greatest strengths in its writing have always been in its characters and character dynamics, tropey or not.

Very much agree with this point. I like Tellius a lot because I felt that they made an effort to develop each character pretty well and incorporate them into the story.

One of my favorite character moments in FE is in Path of Radiance when Greil asks everyone what they should do when the fort is attacked by Daein. It gave each character a moment to share their thoughts, however one note they may be, and it seemed somewhat real to me. They don't all agree and they incorporate some of their personality into their answers. I always thought that was a really cool moment.

 

[Sneak 'n' Snore]

I like this kind of point because FE4 in particular has incredibly weak characters that are barely a step above the Archanea characters.

FE4 can flesh out its characters if it wants to. I think Sigurd and Lewyn are well handled, the issue is just that they're the only ones.
Barring supports I hope a hypothetical FE4 remake adds Tellius style base conversations where characters get to comment on the current situation. Any game could use that.

Very much agree with this point. I like Tellius a lot because I felt that they made an effort to develop each character pretty well and incorporate them into the story.

One of my favorite character moments in FE is in Path of Radiance when Greil asks everyone what they should do when the fort is attacked by Daein. It gave each character a moment to share their thoughts, however one note they may be, and it seemed somewhat real to me. They don't all agree and they incorporate some of their personality into their answers. I always thought that was a really cool moment.

I could go on forever about how much I love the Tellius cast, they struck the best balance between distinct traits without going overboard to me, not to mention how great the designs were. Maybe barring Ilyana and Makalov but the latter is at least uniquely funny in how pathetic and irredeemable he is.

 

[Computer God Autism]

On the other hand, all FE's before Awakening had such an amazing worldbuiding and even interesting plotlines, and seeing that gone is just... sad. 3H was going in the right direction, but you can see that while the character dynamics are almost perfect, there was something undercooked with aspects of its main story + world.

I wouldn't say all games, actually. The Archanea games are pretty straightforward with the deepest part of their plots/world being the history of the manaketes and the drama around Medeus' resurrection - there's a reason that when oldfag nostalgia ramped up post-Awakening, Shadow Dragon and New Mystery weren't the games everyone started hyping up. I'd even say that Valentia is more simplistic than Awakening, and while Elibe has more worldbuilding, a lot of it is disconnected from the plots of its games until it suddenly becomes relevant right at the end. Having a comparable amount of worldbuilding didn't do much to help Fates either.

3H is probably the clearest cut example of overambition. The Golden Deer should have had been cut as a playable path and the time and money that went into it spent on the other three paths.

How much extra dialogue would be needed?

Probably about triple the amount that Echoes gave Gaiden given the scope of its plot. Echoes did a pretty good job of turning Gaiden's very shallow characters into something memorable, and even most of the new additions (Berkut especially) were well done, so if that FE4 remake that was teased with the Engage leaks turns out to be real I wouldn't be too nervous.

Very much agree with this point. I like Tellius a lot because I felt that they made an effort to develop each character pretty well and incorporate them into the story.

One of my favorite character moments in FE is in Path of Radiance when Greil asks everyone what they should do when the fort is attacked by Daein. It gave each character a moment to share their thoughts, however one note they may be, and it seemed somewhat real to me. They don't all agree and they incorporate some of their personality into their answers. I always thought that was a really cool moment.

I replayed Path of Radiance a few months ago and was surprised at how well the overall plot and characters aged. I'd actually consider it the first 'modern' FE game in terms of its writing; all the Greil Mercenaries get a level of presence in the plot that would have only be reserved for the likes of Joshua or L'Arachel in Sacred Stones, and I think the increased emphasis on side characters probably influenced the decision to remove mandatory permadeath later. Ike is also a poor-man's avatar for much of the game; he's worldly, but by virtue of being raised in relative isolation doesn't know much about the world and so can serve as a decent player-insert while still keeping a narrative arc. Amazing that IS got almost everything wrong with Byleth right with Ike fifteen years prior.

 

[Vapor Sauce]

I could go on forever about how much I love the Tellius cast, they struck the best balance between distinct traits without going overboard to me, not to mention how great the designs were. Maybe barring Ilyana and Makalov but the latter is at least uniquely funny in how pathetic and irredeemable he is.

The art design of Tellius is great. No one feels out of place within the world from what I can remember since last playing. Character traits seem more as a background thing rather than their entire personality, barring a few. The effort put into making them seem like real characters is fantastic.

I replayed Path of Radiance a few months ago and was surprised at how well the overall plot and characters aged. I'd actually consider it the first 'modern' FE game in terms of its writing; all the Greil Mercenaries get a level of presence in the plot that would have only be reserved for the likes of Joshua or L'Arachel in Sacred Stones, and I think the increased emphasis on side characters probably influenced the decision to remove mandatory permadeath later. Ike is also a poor-man's avatar for much of the game; he's worldly, but by virtue of being raised in relative isolation doesn't know much about the world and so can serve as a decent player-insert while still keeping a narrative arc. Amazing that IS got almost everything wrong with Byleth right with Ike fifteen years prior.

What's also great is the dialogue changes depending on if/when certain characters die and if certain hidden conditions are met during some maps. Two of the top of my head are if Oscar and Boyd die in chapter 1, Rolf will acknowledge it in chapter 2 during his conversation with Mist. In chapter 11, if Ike survives a round of combat with the Black Knight then Mist and Titania will scold him for being reckless. Stuff like that makes the game feel so much more real and dynamic.

I've also always seen Elincia as the true protagonist of POR since she's the traditional Fire Emblem lord. A young, inexperienced noble who is heir to a kingdom being invaded by evil bad guy on a journey to regain the crown. The overarching story is about her but you see it through the eyes of Ike. It's basically the same as many of the other stories in the series but that little change makes it feel more unique. Essentially Ike is a poor-man's avatar like you said.

 

[Atypical Dog]

I've also always seen Elincia as the true protagonist of POR since she's the traditional Fire Emblem lord. A young, inexperienced noble who is heir to a kingdom being invaded by evil bad guy on a journey to regain the crown. The overarching story is about her but you see it through the eyes of Ike. It's basically the same as many of the other stories in the series but that little change makes it feel more unique. Essentially Ike is a poor-man's avatar like you said.

A stranger to the ways of the world too - which helps when the setting explicitly embraces fantastical elements like the laguz and elements a gamer probably isn't familiar with like slavery, heavy-handed discrimination, and explicit politics (early Begnion where Sanaki kicks the party out to do bitch work like hunting feral laguz slave traders to prove their usefulness and get her evidence). Elincia might be expected to know more, but Ike wouldn't.

FE4 can flesh out its characters if it wants to. I think Sigurd and Lewyn are well handled, the issue is just that they're the only ones.
Barring supports I hope a hypothetical FE4 remake adds Tellius style base conversations where characters get to comment on the current situation. Any game could use that.

I think there's definitely enough potential to go around with home territories and intra-party existing relationships. You can see shades of this in things like Lex and Azel coming together (tough guy protecting squishy mage friend) or the whole Aideen (is that still how it's translated) and Jamke stuff. More map convos with castle flags should solve it.

 

[Nobody In Particular]

Imo, the FE fandom's biggest problem has always been elitism. While the most obvious examples come from the attitudes people have around units in a traditionally single-player series with usually linear gameplay, it factors into most discussions about the writing too. In hindsight it is funny that most of the criticisms of the writing in Awakening - the game that suddenly made all the FE oldfags incredibly nostalgic for Elibe's writing despite it being incredibly contentious prior - were that it's too simple or straightforward when the game was just a celebration of FE's tropes. I think FE's greatest strengths in its writing have always been in its characters and character dynamics, tropey or not.

Imo. Awakening is the worst good fire emblem game. I don't hate it, and it functions decently as like a eugenics sandbox. The story peaks at the 1/3rd mark and that's kind of a bummer. People say the story is about people's bonds and relationships. However, I think it works better if you consider it from the point of view of being about legacy and obligation, but that's probably cope considering all the yugioh monologues Chrom and Robin subject you to.