Fire Emblem series

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I usually understand why certain FE games aren't to everyone's taste. Can't get into FE4 because of the gigantic maps making gameplay tedious? I get that. Can't get into Conquest because it's just more of a challenge than you can find enjoyable? I get that. Can't enjoy Engage because it's just such a fat cornball? I get that.

Radiant Dawn is the one game I don't get how someone can enjoy it.
 
I usually understand why certain FE games aren't to everyone's taste. Can't get into FE4 because of the gigantic maps making gameplay tedious? I get that. Can't get into Conquest because it's just more of a challenge than you can find enjoyable? I get that. Can't enjoy Engage because it's just such a fat cornball? I get that.

Radiant Dawn is the one game I don't get how someone can enjoy it.

It does have issues. Like balancing and poorly doing so between 3 factions and how much time you spend with them as well as key Maniac Mode issues such as removal of terrain bonuses and weapon triangle bonuses hurt a lot and the Western Release had to fix members of the Dawn Brigade and made 3rd Tier Class Promotion not require the Master Crown due to how tedious it is.

Plus Dark Magic is a fart in the wind. At least FE7 with its 2 users made sure their magic had a niche with Nosferatu and especially Luna. RD Dark Magic is not that special but huge attack with lot hit.
 
I see we are having server troubles again on the Farms.

Just another week of someone getting buttmad at the Farms,I see?
 
Radiant Dawn is the one game I don't get how someone can enjoy it.
I'll give explaining myself a shot:
RD has my overall personal favorite gameplay/story integration in the series and the cast that I liked so much from PoR is now in a significantly demanding more game. Ike's chapters in act 3 might be my favorite section of any FE with their music, available characters and story contexts like the chapter where your units raid a Begnion camp and you have to burn their supplies down fast enough as the primary map objective.
Storywise I think people focus too hard on the blood pacts while ignoring things like how well handled Elincia's arc is. Yes they are a lazy plot device but the game does succeed in creating tension with them if nothing else, unlike Fates' Valla curse which is a stupid plot device in a plot that already has no redeeming qualities to it.
The start of act 4 is horrible, I won't defend those maps but the Tower of Guidance is an incrdible endgame section.
The big elephant in the room with RD is unit availability but unless someone really likes Tormod or Lucia I don't think this should ruin the game that much.
I'm not saying RD is a game that people must love but I don't get singling it out like this as the only unenjoyable entry when this series also has the original Gaiden and Revelation which IMO doesn't even work well as a "sandbox" game because it can get so grind heavy if you're going for specific builds, yet is just balanced enough to prevent cheesy quick training. Even RD had the courtesy to give you three sources of Paragon if you want to quickly level some scrubs.
 
If I had to guess, I'd say it was some sort of gameplay/story thing. To make you feel like the Dawn Brigade is a really ragtag group fighting an enemy they are tragically underprepared to do battle with, but gain more powerful allies along the way to bolster their forces and stand a chance. Except it's not *just* the Dawn Brigade proper that stink in Micaiah's chapter--at least half the units that join are a complete joke like Fiona or Meg or are never around like Tauroneo or Tormod. Nailah, her husband and Sothe are hard-carrying these losers.
Probably a callback to Thracia 776 where you're dealing with mostly complete garbage characters for the early game and everyone you recruit is somehow even more useless.
 
Funny enough, Radiant Dawn is the second fire emblem game I had ever finished. I DID play through most of PoR at a friend's house before, I think I left off after Ike *beat* the Black Knight. As a teenager, I thought Radiant Dawn was the hypest shit on the planet. But, I've definitely soured on it since. I will say this much, the game does an EXCELLENT job of making you want to hate Lekain. Mother fucker is responsible for all the hardest chapters in the game.
 
Probably a callback to Thracia 776 where you're dealing with mostly complete garbage characters for the early game and everyone you recruit is somehow even more useless.
Problem is that most the jobber units are there for Insurance due to the Fatigue System in Thracia. You cannot use all your best units for every map thank to Fatigue so you have to use lesser units or similar ones to make use of in exchange of others.
 
Storywise I think people focus too hard on the blood pacts while ignoring things like how well handled Elincia's arc is. Yes they are a lazy plot device but the game does succeed in creating tension with them if nothing else
I don't hate RD, but I'd definitely place it on the lower end of FE games I've played. I liked Elincia's arc quite a bit, and I feel like it handled Part 1's idea better than Part 1 did. I think its because the ragtag Crimean forces all have better long term availability, and they aren't as wimpy as the Dawn Brigade.

I really like the midpoint of RD best, Crimean liberation and fighting as the Greil Mercenaries again were definitely the highlights for me.

Regarding the Blood Pact, I don't think I'll ever think they were a good idea. I believe its perfectly reasonable for there to be characters who would take any of these faction's sides and remain a sympathetic character, but when you add the magical contracts in, it just leads to plot bullshit that ruins the tension rather than enforce it. For example, pretty much every FE game has at least one adversary who is completely honorable, but won't betray their country/faction, and I feel that some of these characters wind up all the more engaging for it. In Radiant Dawn, I fully think you could make a Daein roster of characters who would be willing to fight for Miciah despite some of the more questionable actions, without the need for the blood pacts. I will agree, it was better than Fates and Valla, but to be fair, that's a low bar.

There are some really great moments in the game, like Ike's last duel with the Black Knight, and I love the kind of quiet moment they have after Ike finally avenges his father, and these two adversaries finally have a moment to just... talk. The conversation isn't particularly great, but I love that Ike refers to the Black Knight as his final teacher. There are some other character moments I really love, that are hard to even see, like if you get Zihark to defect from the Dawn Brigade, instead of going on Daein's insane Laguz hunt, he sticks to his morals (and characterization from PoR) and just like in PoR, he turns against those who would unjustly harm the Laguz, whereas, if you don't have Zihark defect from the Dawn Brigade, he basically winds up selling his soul to Daein's cause.
 
They don't forget to pander to FE1 though - it's more that they pretend 3-10 don't exist.

Makes sense from a business perspective. Awakening and after were insanely more popular than the rest of the games, a token nod to 7 since it's popular in the west, and then 1-3
I usually understand why certain FE games aren't to everyone's taste. Can't get into FE4 because of the gigantic maps making gameplay tedious? I get that. Can't get into Conquest because it's just more of a challenge than you can find enjoyable? I get that. Can't enjoy Engage because it's just such a fat cornball? I get that.

Radiant Dawn is the one game I don't get how someone can enjoy it.

I kind of like Radiant Dawn because it does some weird and interesting stuff, for better or worse. It's a step back from Path of Radiance though. I liked Ashnard being the one major villain in the entire series (that I can think of) that isn't like, being manipulated by a dragon or secretly Evil, For A Good Cause.

He's just a self-absorbed jerk.

The real game that you're completely insane if you like is Revelation, the video game equivalent of scraping a poorly made cake off the floor after you trip carrying it, and then serving it anyways.
 
Makes sense from a business perspective. Awakening and after were insanely more popular than the rest of the games, a token nod to 7 since it's popular in the west, and then 1-3


I kind of like Radiant Dawn because it does some weird and interesting stuff, for better or worse. It's a step back from Path of Radiance though. I liked Ashnard being the one major villain in the entire series (that I can think of) that isn't like, being manipulated by a dragon or secretly Evil, For A Good Cause.

He's just a self-absorbed jerk.

The real game that you're completely insane if you like is Revelation, the video game equivalent of scraping a poorly made cake off the floor after you trip carrying it, and then serving it anyways.
Apparently the only person who likes Rev is Oof776.
 
I still find it crazy that there's been like 5 attempts at "Fire Emblem Crossover Game" and they still haven't done one that's just a normal FE game where people's favorite characters beat up Original the Character with some gameplay Greatest Hits.
 
I still find it crazy that there's been like 5 attempts at "Fire Emblem Crossover Game" and they still haven't done one that's just a normal FE game where people's favorite characters beat up Original the Character with some gameplay Greatest Hits.
Yeah the issue with FE crossover games is that they never have characters from the games interact with each other in a meaningful way. It just centers around undercooked OCs
 
Yeah the issue with FE crossover games is that they never have characters from the games interact with each other in a meaningful way. It just centers around undercooked OCs

I don't really play FEH for obvious reasons but I do the free rolls and occasionally do some of the forging bonds. Some of those are cool! Even ones that are just like Morgan and Morgan talking or Lyon and Lyon. It's a shame they don't lean into that more.
 
I usually understand why certain FE games aren't to everyone's taste. Can't get into FE4 because of the gigantic maps making gameplay tedious? I get that. Can't get into Conquest because it's just more of a challenge than you can find enjoyable? I get that. Can't enjoy Engage because it's just such a fat cornball? I get that.

Radiant Dawn is the one game I don't get how someone can enjoy it.
Idk, my opinion of it is 3ds era onward has been a dark age of weeb garbage and bad gameplay. Genuinely haven't enthusiasticially enjoyed any games but conquest, which still has enough cringe writing and character design to make it on the lower end of games I actually enjoy playing.

Both the radiant games are alright in my book. Nothing about either is so offensively bad that I took issue with either one. Neither are my favorites either, but I'm more disgusted by the fe 4 purists or 3H ranters that I have to say seem to like games with bland gameplay because they are hard into larping with either setting. 1, 2, 3, 5-10 and the remakes all play better either casually or challenge wise. Awakening was Shakey because I appreciate some things it does but hate the direction it takes and characters overall. They aren't as laughably bad as fates which have some value feeling like parody characters and such a blatantly stupid avatar and plotline, but even fates cringy ass had a few things I actually liked. People shut on engage for it's plot, but it's just more sunshiny version of awakening, and both suck ass being bad versions of the basic "unga bunga bad dragon gonna ruin everyone's holes" plot. I can't decide which ones story I hate more.

Then again I'm also jaded they made Alm another generic nice guy protag when he had much more opportunity and a game that's tone would fit a much different character better. He could have actually been a character that treats war as more real and said something about it's effects on people. Then again most of the current fan base now isn't interested in a more serious tone if it gets in the way of them spilling seed to waifus.
 
Apparently Alm is the closest thing to Doomslayer as a Fire Emblem Lord in Gaiden which makes sense as he is descended from Duma's legacy. As for my favorite Fire Emblems,I love the GBA Era the most with a soft spot for how janky FE 1 is due to being the first and Thracia 776 cause of some stuff still not done the way it was there like the Pursuit Critical Coefficient.

I also have issues with modern Fire Emblems going too crazy with Max Stat Caps at 40 instead of 30. Games like Thracia chose 20 to be max to differentiate player units with more than just stats and to punish you less for using Pre-Promos or Early Promotion. The Skills used as well as various Class Differences and Weapon Type Differences made said units stand out as well as Fatigue help make use of otherwise Jobber Units as Unit Insurance.

Basically it is like Ironman Fire Emblem minus the dying. Some things I miss were Hard Mode Bonuses for Enemy Recruitable Units that start out as enemies. Being able to recruit key enemy units made a subversion on enemy turned party members who turn out to suck was a thing I liked about Fire Emblem as it incentives you to not just kill willy nilly.

But yeah. I do not care for the new character designs for modern FE and preferred that the design took a Dark/Medieval Fantasy approach akin to Tactics Ogre. Like they tried with Three Houses but people really took the wrong lessons it seems from the games.
 
Apparently Alm is the closest thing to Doomslayer as a Fire Emblem Lord in Gaiden which makes sense as he is descended from Duma's legacy. As for my favorite Fire Emblems,I love the GBA Era the most with a soft spot for how janky FE 1 is due to being the first and Thracia 776 cause of some stuff still not done the way it was there like the Pursuit Critical Coefficient.

I also have issues with modern Fire Emblems going too crazy with Max Stat Caps at 40 instead of 30. Games like Thracia chose 20 to be max to differentiate player units with more than just stats and to punish you less for using Pre-Promos or Early Promotion. The Skills used as well as various Class Differences and Weapon Type Differences made said units stand out as well as Fatigue help make use of otherwise Jobber Units as Unit Insurance.

Basically it is like Ironman Fire Emblem minus the dying. Some things I miss were Hard Mode Bonuses for Enemy Recruitable Units that start out as enemies. Being able to recruit key enemy units made a subversion on enemy turned party members who turn out to suck was a thing I liked about Fire Emblem as it incentives you to not just kill willy nilly.

But yeah. I do not care for the new character designs for modern FE and preferred that the design took a Dark/Medieval Fantasy approach akin to Tactics Ogre. Like they tried with Three Houses but people really took the wrong lessons it seems from the games.
3H is like the reverse of what's good about older fe games. For better or worse, the older games had a direction that was rather well focused. 2 and 8 committed to multiple protags and did so in both a way that jumps around fairly well or emphasized one and told it's story. Most of the other games are focused on one strong narrative and handled that fairly well. Radiant Dawn did jump around a good bit, but it's storytelling isn't horrible to follow or feel half assed in any way if you ask me, doing a good job at keeping a solid flow of story.

Awakening and Engage don't really have issues there, if your gonna be critical of things your probably not insulting it's stories flow for the most part. Conquest and 3H have that issue hard. They want that wider scope like 2 and 8 had, but they don't particularly build different parts as evenly and it's jarring how confused it's plotlines feel. It feels like one route was written out and more was added later as an afterthought. Conquest on its own could have been a more complex story with more maturity and told a solid story from the perspective of working from the corrupt side, but it just kinda memes out to every character acting like a retarded version of Camus. 3H feels like it shouldn't have had an avatar and some of its story paths really blow ass and feel unneeded.

Echoes was the point where I realized the series isn't gonna go a direction that makes an old fan like me happy. I've been playing these games since I was like 8, sacred stones being one of the first gba games I had that I picked at random and greatly enjoyed. One of my old favorites was gaiden even in its old AF state, because I liked the concept of Alm being more so a pissed off commoner that was willing to fight a brutal war for change. I liked the concept of him and Celica having conflict over the morality of war. She is more a traditional fe protag, and Alm is a good variation from being another Marth like hero. Things keep getting worse as it escalates but Alm embodies the idea that conflict is a necessisary and dangerous aspect of life. It can turn you into something worse, but there are also consequeces of being too adverse to conflict. I'm not reading too deep into things to say those are the og games main themes, it is the reflective conflict for the main characters and the gods they represent. Duma represents the future Alm could have if he continued to constantly compromise for change and Celica and Mila have issues that are comparable
 
Alm and Celica get half way to being compelling, with Alm being the one who ends up being more thoughtful and recticent about fighting and Celica going all-in on the holy zeal but yeah it doesn't quite get there, which happens a lot with FE's character writing.


That being said as another old guard western gaijin trash fan, I actually kinda like how the games tend towards trying new things so much. I hated Path of Radiance at first but really appreciate it now as being one of the most interesting games in the series, both gameplay and setting wise. It manages a lot of that moral ambiguity they try to go for in Fates (lol) than it does, and it doesn't have nearly as much background element kudzu going on as Three Houses does with all the plot beats it has that are actually totally meaningless (Sothis could be removed entirely and the game could just say "yeah byleth can rewind time" and nobody would question it, the slithers are dumb incompetent villains, etc).

I don't like a lot of Engage's gameplay mechanics because it kind of ends up like Geneology or 5 where if a character doesn't have a super busted Prf weapon, they might as well get the bench if you aren't doing a challenge run; Engage's Engages are so busted that it makes it less fun because you have to handicap yourself even on lunatic the AI will just harmlessly bounce off Lucina'd characters and the like. I also don't like Engage's setting because it's down there with Fates in having a setting that feels like a game world and not a place with a story and history you might be interested in finding out.

But in the end it also tries a lot of weird new stuff, like giving Knights a reason to exist, and if the series didn't keep trying new things it wouldn't do stuff like that. With any luck, eventually it'll hit a perfect balance of stuff I like (though Awakening comes pretty close for me, I guess I'm the nostalgia-baited slackjaw moron who claps like a seal when I see callbacks I like) but until then, trying new things is cool.

Though I won't lie, even with that mindset it's frustrating to see the new games do some mind bogglingly dumb stuff like the kids in Fates.
 
I feel ya on that Manah. I can sound too negative on the new games because I'm tired of the tone that keeps being repeated and the way things pander towards weeb appeal and whatnot, but I should give credit where it's due.

Awakening has issues narratively and overall has serious causal design (I mean this in the sense that it encourages heavy grinding and every unit grows like crazy) but I do feel a need to point out its incredibly content rich as well. It's a great easygoing game to experiment with and genuinely a solid starting point in the series from a gameplay angle, it actually has a lot of love for the whole series and tried to add as many old mechanics into one large game.

Fates definitely took some risks despite it definitely being a very "beat the meat to tig ol biddies" type of "safe" marketing. It had some original ideas and did want some standing out with the very distinctive eastern and western sides. It felt like it tried to do the Pokemon thing for more a reason, adding a version that's more for challenge enthusiasts and a version more casual, but that leads to heavy criticism on both sides and criticism of how it's sold/marketed. As a long time player it was a bit watered down still, but much more old school fire emblem than awakening felt.

Echoes was a remake of as far as I'm aware not particularly popular entry. I was quite excited it was a remake of one of my favorites (which I know is a bit hypocritical because imo it has a strong argument for being one of the more casual old games). I didn't the they modernized interpretation, but I also won't be mad other people like it, and overall a lot was pretty dang faithful to the original game mechanics with some pretty solid imo additions.

3H was not my cup of tea, but I respect the ambition it had. It wanted to be a large and different game, my issue is the follow through felt like it had issues. I see plenty of signs of too many cooks in the kitchen, too much starting from the ground up and being pushed to close out without everything feeling like it was finish and finalized. I don't know for sure, but I wouldn't be shocked if it was a game that show too wide in scale and outgrew what the actual hands at work had been able to fully accomplish so alot was delivered under quick crunch to hit deadlines.

And engage has been the recent one to flood into the ring with a lot of "eh" response from people. I think many things hurt it, like its attempts to "appeal to old fans" causing outrage, part of which might be because it has some hard competition with good remakes like the DS ones, awakening having pretty strong tribute type stuff and the gba era having 2/3 titles being comparable to the older games. It hit a fatigue point from how the more recent games have delivered and I think people want much newer stuff in the story that has the balls to stand out but deeper refinement of older mechanics. Newer stuff can feel gimmick heavy, and the typical "unbalanced" nature of fe games is getting in a lot of ways too predictable, with the newer gimmicks often breaking the game too heavily in players favor. It tried some unique stuff, but I'd say provoking responses is what alot of that brang which caused a lot of back and forth debate in the community at large vs a overall positive reaction.

I personally want them to pull the most from 1/2/8/9-10 for story. Build a strong one direction narrative like 1, have route splits that work like 2, build it some post game like 8 and commit to progressive story like the path games. Gameplay wise I'd like to see the og ds remakes be the base, story that plays out mission to mission with lower growths than modern stat bloat and free reclassing that isn't fat grinding incentive. From there, weapon arts that echoes had could be linked more to class and weapon ranks vs items. Take a lesson from 4 and only have kids if it's tied to the story (instead of lazy multiverse stuff, just skip forward in time). Bring back capturing from 5, that shit fun af. 7 ranking system was a great feature they should revive. 8 imo had great post game, and potentially having "skirmishes" as a random chance off decisions made in the story would be cool, as well as the maps like it and two had, but it would be nice if you didn't return to a map after EVERY CHAPTER and you had times where 2-5ish chapters would play out back to back forcing more mindful resources management. 9-10 bonus exp and supports get me hard, and I prefer it's skill load system but I would hope alot of bad skills just outright get removed. And avatars are fun "build-a-bitch" units, but they really fucking suck for story. If they get a small side plot that be ok, but let them actually be in the background as a middling rank soldier, or hired hand merc with a small crew (maybe like 4-5 units that you could hire that support with each other and can be customized and hired after a main one pops into the story for gold) because they are pretty neat gameplay wise. And most of all, give me a plot focused on some not dragon stuff?


And I might be entirely alone in this thought, but please actually shift the balance around from the "solved" typical fire emblem *tm* unit balance? I know plenty of people say they "LOVE" the overly samey use of archetypes that is heavily repetitive, but I just don't like knowing what to do immediately to break a game before I touch it. Mix shit up some, make mounted units slow because they charge at enemies and really should be less capable of consecutive hits as they joust from a mount with high luck because it's hard to fatally strike someone riding a fast mount. Make knights fast and versatile because movement speed and combat speed are not the same thing, and make them prone to crits because particularly well aimed strikes do in fact help hurt people in heavy armor. Add some variety to mounts besides just horse and flying horse. I'm just looking for more to chew on or something distinctively different enough that I can't autopilot it the same as the usual fire emblem from being too familiar with what the series has already done over a dozen times.
 
One of my favourite weird one-off mechanics is the free reclassing in Shadow Dragon and its sequel. Chapter with lots of mountains and rivers? Turn your paladins into dracoknights and fly over them! Archers and ballistae everywhere? Turn them back into paladins. One of your units has bad defense? Turn them into a general for a few levels to boost their growth rates.

Multiclassing in Awakening was mostly just a grind to get the same few OP skills (Renewal, Galeforce, Sol etc) on every unit, but Shadow Dragon made it a fun tactical consideration before every battle, and weapon skill levels keep you from switching too much, unless you wanna wind up C rank in every weapon.
 
One of my favourite weird one-off mechanics is the free reclassing in Shadow Dragon and its sequel. Chapter with lots of mountains and rivers? Turn your paladins into dracoknights and fly over them! Archers and ballistae everywhere? Turn them back into paladins. One of your units has bad defense? Turn them into a general for a few levels to boost their growth rates.

Multiclassing in Awakening was mostly just a grind to get the same few OP skills (Renewal, Galeforce, Sol etc) on every unit, but Shadow Dragon made it a fun tactical consideration before every battle, and weapon skill levels keep you from switching too much, unless you wanna wind up C rank in every weapon.
It also adds in a ton to experiment with and fun replayability to a largely straightforward game with fantastic pace. It doesn't ruin the difficulty scaling like the grind heavy feature did.
 
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