UN Finland drops Universal Basic Income - Turns out giving away free money is expesive

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http://dailytorch.com/2018/05/unive...n-finland-but-will-the-left-learn-its-lesson/

The Daily Torch said:
By Natalia Castro

Finland tried, and Finland failed. To combat high unemployment and wage stagnation, Finland’s government decided to try a universal basic income (UBI) experiment with a portion of their population. Establishing a UBI has been viewed as a favorable by liberals and Silicon Valley elites who view a UBI as a necessary method of injecting capital into the economy.

Unfortunately, as Finland just learned, giving citizens money without restriction does not fuel growth, it wastes money. Now, Finland is backtracking on their UBI program to instill real reforms to end individual dependency on the government.

The unemployment rate in Finland has exceeded eight percent since long before the UBI program began in January 2017. Petteri Orpo, Finland’s finance minister, told the Financial Times, “Working life has changed through globalization, automation. We have to reform our society in order to activate people to reach a higher employment rate…”

These fears of a more globalized future led Finland to a two-year experiment in basic income. The Financial Times continues to explain, Finland selected a large group of unemployed individuals to be given €560 (about $670) a month without any conditions on what individuals must do to receive the funds or where they could be spent.

The first glaring problem with the program was, of course, the cost.

One of the reasons the experiment could not continue or be expanded is because of the extreme tax hike it would require. The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development found in a Feb. 2018report on Finland’s economy, while a UBI might enhance work incentives — a dubious finding, but okay, let’s play along — in order to universally adopt the policy, Finland would have to increase taxes by nearly 30 percent causing an increase in overall poverty.

Finland was placing their hopes in a system they could not afford, which is why they have decided against renewing the program at the end of this year. Instead, Finland is now pursuing the exact opposite style of reforms to fix their broken welfare system.

Jon Henley, the European affairs correspondent for The Guardian, explains, Finland has now introduced legislation to make some benefits for unemployed people contingent on the completion of work or work training.

Even finance minister Orpo had to admit to the Financial Times that the UBI system in fact made people “passive”. Orpo explained, “When we look at our economy that is now growing, we have tens of thousands of free jobs [that cannot be filled] and more than 200,000 unemployed people. We have to look at the incentives to work.”

Giving individuals free money while hoping they get a job might seem like a distant European concept, but it hits much closer to home. More and more people in the United States have advocated for a similar UBI model over the years.

Michael Hiltzik of the L.A. Timesreports, from Martin Luther King Jr. to Elon Musk to apparently everyone in San Francisco, UBI is seen as a great way to kick-start economic growth and offset the impacts of automation taking jobs.

While the Finnish government insists full results on their experiment will not be gathered for several years, the country’s top economists believe it failed to do exactly what they had hoped, instead widening the free jobs gap and maintaining stagnant employment numbers.

For an example closer to home, techies like Musk should look no further than our own Social Security system.

While Social Security, including Supplemental Security Income, is not a UBI program because it is not universal, it does mirror how the program works: a select group receives a monthly guaranteed income from the state. Social Security can be seen as our own experiment in UBI and highlights the insurmountable revenue problem if it were to be made universal.

Sean Williams of the Motley Fool explains in April 2018, according to the Social Security Board of Trustees’ annual report, “Social Security is expected to begin paying out more in benefits than it’s generating in revenue by 2022. That’s only four years away. By 2034, after just 12 years of cash outflows, its roughly $3 trillion in asset reserves, which is primarily invested in special-issue bonds, is expected to be completely exhausted.”

This means in order for our Social Security system to survive; it will be forced to engage in dramatic benefit cuts or just borrow the money. If we cannot maintain the closest thing to a UBI system which we currently have, where there is an incentive to work, because there is still not enough revenue, it is clear we cannot universalize it in a context when there will be far less of an incentive to work. People will stop working and the system will collapse.

Finland tried the system people around the world claim will end the welfare state, but they found out the real truth. Universal basic income is the welfare state. The only way to truly end the welfare state is to incentivize people to be less reliant on the state, not more.

Natalia Castro is a contributing editor at Americans for Limited Government.

Who could have guessed that paying people to do nothin' gets you a whole lotta nothin'?
 
This wasn't even real UBI, it was ~600 USD a month which most people don't find adequate to live on, and they couldn't even afford to keep the trial run going because the few selected were so expensive.

The test run for 2 months cost the state over $250,000 USD. And that's a test run for 2,000 (1/100th of the unemployed population). It's only a $140 million USD/month plan to get all 200,000 unempoyed Finns on the system, we can afford that. Oh, and we can afford to expand it to "all" Finns too.

The Finnish welfare state is also going to be stretched by the thousands of "youths" with "migrant backgrounds" who are often known for using a very disproportionate amount of police resources both to stop them from going to the Middle East and fight as a Jihadist, and to arrest them for committing local crimes such as rape on 12 years olds because they don't understand enough Finnish to know what "no" means while a raped 12 year old girl screams it.

http://www.helsinkitimes.fi/finland...inland-has-a-nascent-jihadist-underworld.html

They even had the police conduct a special program to "re-integrate" Mudslimes who left Finland to be a Jihadist, and then came back to Finland once they learned from the best, and are given special education and other benefits to help them reintegrate into the society they themselves voluntarily left.

I'm glad the police are protecting the most vulnerable in the Finnish community: migrant Muslim youths who left Finland to fight for Jihad and kill the kafir.
 
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Yet people will try again and again to get UBI to work. Nothing is free kids.
 
But-- But muh socialism! :story:

This wasn't even real UBI, it was ~600 USD a month which most people don't find adequate to live on, and they couldn't even afford to keep the trial run going because the few selected were so expensive.

I'm no economist (Or come from any sort of background in finance for that matter) but it sounds like that 600 a month is just to pay for entertainment, eating out, going on a small vacation, etc. rather than living off of.
 
But-- But muh socialism! :story:

I'm no economist (Or come from any sort of background in finance for that matter) but it sounds like that 600 a month is just to pay for entertainment, eating out, going on a small vacation, etc. rather than living off of.

No, it was not meant to be pocket money, it's for living expenses. And it's not enough to live on for most people. Finland ain't cheap.
 
This wasn't even real UBI, it was ~600 USD a month which most people don't find adequate to live on, and they couldn't even afford to keep the trial run going because the few selected were so expensive.

The Finnish welfare state is also going to be stretched by the thousands of "youths" with "migrant backgrounds" who are often known for using a very disproportionate amount of police resources both to stop them from going to the Middle East and fight as a Jihadist, and to arrest them for committing local crimes such as rape on 12 years olds because they don't understand enough Finnish to know what "no" means while a raped 12 year old girl screams it.

http://www.helsinkitimes.fi/finland...inland-has-a-nascent-jihadist-underworld.html

They even had the police conduct a special program to "re-integrate" Mudslimes who left Finland to be a Jihadist, and then came back to Finland once they learned from the best, and are given special education and other benefits to help them reintegrate into the society they themselves voluntarily left.

I'm glad the police are protecting the most vulnerable in the Finnish community: migrant Muslim youths who left Finland to fight for Jihad.

So another Sweden just as cucked as real Sweden? Why on Earth would they try to get rapefugees to come back? Shouldn't they be glad they left the country to go jihad somewhere else? They're just inviting them back in to rape and cry foul that they didn't understand what "no" meant in any language not spoken by women in burkas.

But-- But muh socialism! :story:



I'm no economist (Or come from any sort of background in finance for that matter) but it sounds like that 600 a month is just to pay for entertainment, eating out, going on a small vacation, etc. rather than living off of.

It might pay a bill or two and give you a small pittance for beans and rice. But it's not a very livable sum of money by far. Better than nothing. But I would wager that some people just wasted it. When you give people free gub'ment money there's always going to be a nice portion of people who just waste it outright. Hopefully most people tried to make the best of it.

I don't know what the cost of stuff is in Sweden. But here in the US you'd struggle to survive on a sum like that unless you had a lot more government help with housing and low income utility assistance.
 
And according to this article it was Finland that failed not UBI:

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/05/02/opinion/universal-basic-income-finland.html

Opinion
Universal Basic Income Didn’t Fail in Finland. Finland Failed It.

HELSINKI, Finland — “Thank goodness that this experiment is coming to an end,” the Fox News commentator Stuart Varney said recently, after the Finnish government decided to stop its trial run with universal basic income (U.B.I.) at the end of the year. “You want money, get out there and work for it, please.”

Jussi Halla-aho, the leader of the far-right Finns Party, applauded the decision, arguing that “work is the best social security.” Some center-left politicians also have been skeptical. Antti Rinne, the leader of the Social Democratic Party, said last year, “I don’t need any basic income. I have a good salary, and if I happen to lose my job, I’d have unemployment benefits.”

But the demise of the U.B.I. experiment in Finland can’t be said to mean that U.B.I. has failed here. Not only are preliminary official results not even expected until 2019, but the Finnish government’s U.B.I. pilot project never really was about U.B.I.

As we wrote last summer, Finland’s program was doomed as soon as it began in early 2017. Targeting just 2,000 randomly selected unemployed Finns to receive 560 euros a month (about $675) for only two years, it was too limited in both scale and duration.

Finland’s conservative government was, of course, an implausible champion for progressive experimentation. Soon enough, it became clear that the Center Party, which leads the ruling coalition, had no intention of properly experimenting with U.B.I., which would have required conducting a much larger and longer study, as many academics recommended. Researchers overseeing the program were instructed to test whether the unemployed could be encouraged to take up low-paid work if they didn’t lose benefits.

Even before the U.B.I. trial began, the government announced that it would concurrently reform unemployment benefits. What it calls the “activation model” kicked in at the beginning of this year: The measure withholds benefits from unemployed people who, for instance, are thought not to be searching for jobs actively enough — the opposite of a basic income program, which comes with no strings attached. The measure has been (rightly) criticized for creating more bureaucracy only to exercise stricter control over the jobless. Nearly half of the people affected by it have lost benefits as a result.

This outcome is a shame, because the Finnish government has been giving money away for decades with great success.

Many university students get a monthly €250 stipend from the state, and Finnish citizens pay no tuition fees. Low-income families are eligible for a housing allowance. Such benefits and various income redistribution measures help explain why the poverty rate and income inequality in Finland are among the lowest in the world.


For example, in 2016 the at-risk-of-poverty rate before social transfers was near 44 percent whereas the at-risk-of-poverty rate after social transfers was under 12 percent. Finland’s Gini coefficient before taxes and transfers was 0.5 in 2014, compared with 0.26 after taxes and transfers.


About 34 percent of Finns aged 15 to 74 aren’t working. The unemployed make up only a small part of this group, the majority consisting of students, the elderly, the disabled and stay-at-home moms and dads. This inactive population needs support, including money, in order to participate fully in society — a democratic right, according to the Constitution.

Government benefits, and measures transferring income or wealth generally, are a hallmark of the Nordic welfare state and enjoy robust public support in Finland. About 75 percent of the country’s population wants the state to decrease income inequality further. In the most recent comprehensive poll about U.B.I., from the fall, 51 percent of respondents said that providing a partial basic income (€560 a month) was a “good idea,” compared with just 21 percent who thought it was a bad idea.

On the other hand, the government’s so-called activation model has been extremely unpopular, and not only among the people who have suffered from it. According to a survey early this year by the national broadcaster Yle, 56 percent of respondents opposed the measure and 36 percent supported it. A major workers union organized a demonstration against it in February, in solidarity with the jobless.

Finland has an established history of very forward-looking social policy. Honoring that tradition, and the public’s support for it, means properly setting up large-scale research and trials.

Instead of ending its experiment with U.B.I., the government should reframe it and expand it. The program should be extended to a wider and more varied group, including employed people. And it should test different levels of income.

The Finnish government’s project — too limited, halfhearted, ideologically skewed — can only yield inconclusive data. To do U.B.I. right, we need to think big and try harder.
 
The Finnish government’s project — too limited, halfhearted, ideologically skewed — can only yield inconclusive data. To do U.B.I. right, we need to think big and try harder.

It's Not Real UBI™ unless we give the entire 5 million population of Finland UBI for longer than 2 months.

Instead of ending its experiment with U.B.I., the government should reframe it and expand it. The program should be extended to a wider and more varied group, including employed people. And it should test different levels of income.

Can someone explain to me how giving someone with a job already an extra $700 a month is going to change the 200,000 unemployed population to start going to work?

Do these freaks really not understand why an unemployed population might be distasteful of people who can survive just fine on their own income being given $700 extra a month? Do they want to start a social revolution where the unemployed-class who only takes home $700/month rebels against the upper class who get their own $700/month subsidy ontop of their adequate income?

Jesus Christ, the Frankfurt school is real. All this "welfare" truly is meant to turn the classes against each other instead of actually propping up success and fostering independent success. Class war is just another means to foster political power by changing the socio-economic status of hundreds of thousands to benefit you and your political party.
 
Even the USSR didn't believe in this tripe. They'd straight up send you to a gulag if you didn't work. Finland could have taken that $700 a month and bought an Ak-47 and a plane ticket for all of their muslim youth so that they could die in some Middle Eastern hell hole fighting for Allah. At least my plan involves lowering the rape per capita statistic.
 
I am a believer in UBI from the standpoint that eventually, the supply/demand ratio for even the most mundane jobs is going to become too strained, and delaying the issue by artificially creating jobs to target the problem is not going to work forever. Until there is a sweeping, global change in society, as long as impoverished countries still exist and your borders are wide open, it will be exploited, and that money is going over the border.

I just hope the future looks better than a huge bottom rung of illiterates on mopeds, because I personally can't wait for these clowns to be replaced by delivery drones.
 
supply/demand ratio for even the most mundane jobs is going to become too strained

The supply/demand ratio for the resources in the world are going to be strained while the population barrels out of control (see: Africa).

While the number of people in the world goes up, the amount of finite resources goes down. "Mundane" jobs will be the the only way to support yourself when there are 10x the amount of people fighting for the same dwindling amount of resources.

An exploding population cannot exist simultaneously with both finite resources and a welfare state that encourages solely consumption of those resources and zero production.
 
production

80% of jobs in the western world now form the service industry. Your resources are mass produced and come from a sweatshop in China. As far as the west is concerned, production has an intangible result.

My concerns are about the longevity of these situations, as unskilled labour jobs have all but been automated out or deferred to the lowest bidder, and this is slowly going to creep up as technology advances. Yes, the population is exploding -- what do you propose to do about it? Make more jobs? Who is going to pay for this labour they don't need?

On the subject of population growth -- there is a correlation between this and education levels, so it should be considered on a country-by-country basis. Japan is even on the decline. Again, any step towards socialism would require a global societal change, unless you plan to lock down your open borders, because you certainly can't have both.
 
On the subject of population growth -- there is a correlation between this and education levels

And the age-old mantra of the dumb reproduce more stands true when you have billions of retards reproducing.

1408624676156_wps_5_World_IQ_graph_jpg.jpg


Yes, the population is exploding -- what do you propose to do about it?

Stop sending aid to Africa so only the productive members of society survive and the parasites who out-breed their food sourced from international handouts either learn to work or learn to survive without eating.

Projections.jpg

Japan is even on the decline.


Many parts of Japan are overcrowded, with housing situations being literal holes in the wall. So what if their population doesn't grow at an exponential rate? The only people who need nonstop economic growth via population growth are large longterm banksters with billions in investments.
 
And according to this article it was Finland that failed not UBI:

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/05/02/opinion/universal-basic-income-finland.html

Opinion
Universal Basic Income Didn’t Fail in Finland. Finland Failed It.

HELSINKI, Finland — “Thank goodness that this experiment is coming to an end,” the Fox News commentator Stuart Varney said recently, after the Finnish government decided to stop its trial run with universal basic income (U.B.I.) at the end of the year. “You want money, get out there and work for it, please.”

Jussi Halla-aho, the leader of the far-right Finns Party, applauded the decision, arguing that “work is the best social security.” Some center-left politicians also have been skeptical. Antti Rinne, the leader of the Social Democratic Party, said last year, “I don’t need any basic income. I have a good salary, and if I happen to lose my job, I’d have unemployment benefits.”

But the demise of the U.B.I. experiment in Finland can’t be said to mean that U.B.I. has failed here. Not only are preliminary official results not even expected until 2019, but the Finnish government’s U.B.I. pilot project never really was about U.B.I.

As we wrote last summer, Finland’s program was doomed as soon as it began in early 2017. Targeting just 2,000 randomly selected unemployed Finns to receive 560 euros a month (about $675) for only two years, it was too limited in both scale and duration.

Finland’s conservative government was, of course, an implausible champion for progressive experimentation. Soon enough, it became clear that the Center Party, which leads the ruling coalition, had no intention of properly experimenting with U.B.I., which would have required conducting a much larger and longer study, as many academics recommended. Researchers overseeing the program were instructed to test whether the unemployed could be encouraged to take up low-paid work if they didn’t lose benefits.

Even before the U.B.I. trial began, the government announced that it would concurrently reform unemployment benefits. What it calls the “activation model” kicked in at the beginning of this year: The measure withholds benefits from unemployed people who, for instance, are thought not to be searching for jobs actively enough — the opposite of a basic income program, which comes with no strings attached. The measure has been (rightly) criticized for creating more bureaucracy only to exercise stricter control over the jobless. Nearly half of the people affected by it have lost benefits as a result.

This outcome is a shame, because the Finnish government has been giving money away for decades with great success.

Many university students get a monthly €250 stipend from the state, and Finnish citizens pay no tuition fees. Low-income families are eligible for a housing allowance. Such benefits and various income redistribution measures help explain why the poverty rate and income inequality in Finland are among the lowest in the world.


For example, in 2016 the at-risk-of-poverty rate before social transfers was near 44 percent whereas the at-risk-of-poverty rate after social transfers was under 12 percent. Finland’s Gini coefficient before taxes and transfers was 0.5 in 2014, compared with 0.26 after taxes and transfers.


About 34 percent of Finns aged 15 to 74 aren’t working. The unemployed make up only a small part of this group, the majority consisting of students, the elderly, the disabled and stay-at-home moms and dads. This inactive population needs support, including money, in order to participate fully in society — a democratic right, according to the Constitution.

Government benefits, and measures transferring income or wealth generally, are a hallmark of the Nordic welfare state and enjoy robust public support in Finland. About 75 percent of the country’s population wants the state to decrease income inequality further. In the most recent comprehensive poll about U.B.I., from the fall, 51 percent of respondents said that providing a partial basic income (€560 a month) was a “good idea,” compared with just 21 percent who thought it was a bad idea.

On the other hand, the government’s so-called activation model has been extremely unpopular, and not only among the people who have suffered from it. According to a survey early this year by the national broadcaster Yle, 56 percent of respondents opposed the measure and 36 percent supported it. A major workers union organized a demonstration against it in February, in solidarity with the jobless.

Finland has an established history of very forward-looking social policy. Honoring that tradition, and the public’s support for it, means properly setting up large-scale research and trials.

Instead of ending its experiment with U.B.I., the government should reframe it and expand it. The program should be extended to a wider and more varied group, including employed people. And it should test different levels of income.

The Finnish government’s project — too limited, halfhearted, ideologically skewed — can only yield inconclusive data. To do U.B.I. right, we need to think big and try harder.
I can only wonder why they think it's a good idea to give hand-outs to people who aren't impoverished. I've lived in the ghetto, once people have all their needs covered, and get used to the government paying for nonessentials like Nikes and Coca~Cola, it just turns into a shitfest of entitlement. You would think it would make people happy, but they just end up with firey resentments because they can't have the very latest new Nikes every single month, or eat an $8 microwave pizza every night.
 
And the age-old mantra of the dumb reproduce more stands true when you have billions of exceptional individuals reproducing.

1408624676156_wps_5_World_IQ_graph_jpg.jpg




Stop sending aid to Africa so only the productive members of society survive and the parasites who out-breed their food sourced from international handouts either learn to work or learn to survive without eating.

Projections.jpg




Many parts of Japan are overcrowded, with housing situations being literal holes in the wall. So what if their population doesn't grow at an exponential rate? The only people who need nonstop economic growth via population growth are large longterm banksters with billions in investments.

Sorry, but what the fuck is that chart? The "world IQ" will always be 100 because that's how intelligence quotient work-

>MailOnline

Ah
 
but they just end up with firey resentments

That's the point, it makes the taxpayer resent the welfare class, it makes the welfare class resent everyone above them, and it encourages a poor revolution.

That's why Hillary Clinton is replying "Pls print" when being sent an article which stated
the Democrats ran on the platform of increasing taxes for the wealthy, amplifying class warfare rather than ending it

https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/29394

That was published in the Huffington Post. HRC herself said "pls print" an article which claims Democrats are amplifying class warfare and they have no intention on ending it (or thus, ending the division of economic classes...)
 
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