Final Fantasy XIV - Kiwi Free Company

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Burt Ryan said:
I still won't forgive YoshiP for not having the balls to kill off any member of the Scions during any of the expansions.
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The most egregious example of this for me was the one part of Shadowbringers that really chapped my ass, Thancred's "death". Perfectly set up to kill him, what should've been his final cutscene alive was perfect, then they walk it back completely with him just needing to take a sand-nap for awhile and it's crystal clear that nobody in the Scions with a fanbase or merch to be made for will die, ever.
Completely toothless bullshit, worse than the "sacrifice" segment near the end of Endwalker because they got that close and turned back around at the finish line.
RussellTShackleford said:
Papalymo? Not that anyone cared/cares.
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I did, but can't blame people for not caring with how little the actual game does, especially if they weren't Gridania starters. Hilarious how he had his sacrifice and then the "OK, time for Stormblood!" speeds past it completely.
 
They made that shit clear when they decided to walk back on the ARR finale in HW.
 
Watch yoshi-p throw an ultimate or something where you play out what would've happened if X character died like what he did with the HW in the What if he had survived instead(forgot the name)
 
SnowBall said:
They made that shit clear when they decided to walk back on the ARR finale in HW.
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ARR's finale getting reeled back is also hilariously transparent and makes everything that happened in it hollow, but prior to Stormblood they had enough unpopular Scion meat to throw into the pile as a smokescreen for nothing bad ever happening to popular NPCs. It also doesn't help that Shadowbringers introduced Trusts, and anyone in it being immortal MSQ-wise made it so even the staunchest retards that can't bring themselves to criticize anything got the idea that being a trust NPC = forgotten by the writers at worst with the few exceptions being added in retrospect like Haurchefant.
 
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The main thing is that even though the most-interesting twist of ARR's finale was reversed, there's still an element of consequence to it: one scion is dead, one can't use aetherytes, and one is blind-sortof. Along the way, Moenbryda gets introduced and killed off, so there remains altogether a sense of there being something approaching stakes. In HW, you both get Ysayle's death and Haurchefant's to carry things along - as well as the dragon that gets got and Papalymo in the aftermath. Killing or maiming characters isn't in and of itself good storytelling, but it's a good way to ratchet up tension and enhance verisimilitude.

From the death of Papalymo, it takes all the way to Arenvald in the Shadowbringers postgame sequence for any non-villain of even minor consequence to have something bad happen to them. I guess the regent of Radz also dies in Endwalker, not that I imagine anyone could remember the name of that character offhand. Thancred and Yshtola's impediments also increasingly get forgotten about as new leads take the reins (and clearly are less and less familiar or concerned with the story that came before them). In the end, it all suggests a lack of overall vision for the narrative which bespeaks the kind of apathy that would not only see Hiroi take the reins, but would even see him keep it despite the worst-performing expansion basically ever.

There are plenty of ways to tell a story without killing characters off, so it's hardly a necessary element. The problem is that the writers have a bad habit of teasing at stakes when there are none. The weakest parts of Shadowbringers involve the obvious fakeout deaths, whereas the parts that everyone tends to like manage to create drama without that lazy device. Endwalker is a mess of a story for a multitude of reasons, but it's certainly not helped by the fact that - despite all of existence hanging on the line - we also had to have the main cast all pretend to croak to increase the tension, despite the fact that not even a single-digit IQ retard would for a second believe it wouldn't be reversed with a literal handwave.
 
Rich Evans Ayypologist said:
Endwalker is a mess of a story for a multitude of reasons, but it's certainly not helped by the fact that - despite all of existence hanging on the line - we also had to have the main cast all pretend to croak to increase the tension, despite the fact that not even a single-digit IQ retard would for a second believe it wouldn't be reversed with a literal handwave.
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Thancred should have actually died there.
 
Rich Evans Ayypologist said:
There are plenty of ways to tell a story without killing characters off, so it's hardly a necessary element. The problem is that the writers have a bad habit of teasing at stakes when there are none.
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This is why I'm not on board with killing off Scions at this point. It would piss people off but in practice it'd be a cheap trick since they're barely involved with the story anyway and there's no way to make it feel like a meaningful sacrifice after they already chickened out from the embodiment of all death and despair in the universe doing the job.

I say just retire them to background characters like they were in HW and introduce new characters with actual stakes. Maybe have one or two tag along on future adventures for colour commentary and fanservice. And let Estinein fucking retire already.
 
Tari said:
Thancred should have actually died there.
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He probably should have died in Shadowbringers. The Y'shtola death fakeout is currently obnoxious, stupid, and unnecessary - but doing that fakeout to lead into Thancred dying would have given a lot of punch. As it stands, that act of Shadowbringers is slow, boring filler that feels like it was written by someone else.

As I've blathered about before, if anyone was to die in the Endwalker endgame, I still maintain it should have been the player-character. Earlier in Endwalker, there's a dialogue choice that lets you pick the scion you want to hang out with before departing - and so what a company who gave a shit would've done would be to make different scenarios in which that scion is about to sacrifice themselves to protect the party - but the WoL defies that seemingly preordained fate and takes the burden on themselves, as is their wont. Throw in a double-whammy and have Zenos intervene to go "nah dude we need to fight first," have the both of you fight and then croak, have you be effectively-reincarnated with the last of Hydalyn's blessing (or some shit with emet-selch who cares) without all of your godlike ability (which you don't use at all during dawntrail, as that is wuk lamat's job).

There's just a zillion really simple ways to achieve the same end-state the team brought us... but with a more satisfying spin to them.
Sheep King said:
since they're barely involved with the story anyway
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See they're supposed to be more involved, but Hiroi is masterfully incompetent enough to have them both be present at every moment of the story and also to have zero actual input or relevance to the plot-progression. It's honestly impressive and completely stupid. If the player wants to run a dungeon with trusts, just have an additional quest that features them calling the squad in over linkperl (or summoning simulacrum of the gang, which is what I assumed the stupid Endwalker macguffin was supposed to facilitate but whatever). Thancred is the only character who can't immediately teleport to your location, but he can always be "in the neighborhood" (or swapped out with the cat).
 
Tari said:
Do you mean Wuk Lamat, or G'Raha? Because Graha is considered an All-Rounder in every single dungeon he's Duty Support in for this explicit reason.
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Either-or, really. The point being that there's this idea that the trusts kindof lock the scions into being peripherally involved in the story like they were in DT, but there's a bunch of ways to get around that which would make better sense in the story, not unlike the Elpis dungeon.
 
Sheep King said:
I say just retire them to background characters like they were in HW and introduce new characters with actual stakes. Maybe have one or two tag along on future adventures for colour commentary and fanservice. And let Estinein fucking retire already.
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The Monkey's paw curls and Wuk Lamat is the new permanent member of the Scions
 
Rich Evans Ayypologist said:
Either-or, really. The point being that there's this idea that the trusts kindof lock the scions into being peripherally involved in the story like they were in DT, but there's a bunch of ways to get around that which would make better sense in the story, not unlike the Elpis dungeon.
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Not really either? The earlier ARR dungeons now features unnamed adventurers for trusts, and I believe that's the case for most dungeons where the scions were not nominally involved in. I don't see why they needed the scions involved at all, except for memberberries purposes.
 
00R-Gundam said:
I can see them having WL becoming like an Envoy and visiting the other countries while having the WoL as her bodyguard or some shit. Maybe she decides to go on a globetrotting adventure to get to know the other countries and requests the WoL to join her since hes been in those places before.
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Just the thought of this happening makes me want to fedpost.
 
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