Final Fantasy XIV - Kiwi Free Company

  • 🏰 The Fediverse is up. If you know, you know.
  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
ngl, if ERP would get me the equivalent of a sub every month I'd totally do it in a heartbeat

If there is one thing I'd want SE to steal from WoW it would be the ability to buy subscription tokens
Literally everyone I've ever talked to from WoW that quit (or took an extensive break at best) hates "WoW token"/subscription tokens, because it creates inflation out the ass and it effectively legalized RMT except Blizzard is the one who profits which creates a very notable incentive to just let everything go to shit. Even people who were fine with it at first hate it. Only NEETs who can afford to grind monopoly money forever and people who profit or want legal RMT, like the existence of WoW token.

The only positive is if all you want to do is be able to RMT legally or you want to grind to avoid paying your sub every month, beyond those two things it is a pile of shit.
 
I bring a small dose of lunacy from PF for us all to laugh at today!

View attachment 3490256
Wow! A virtual bowling alley, pretty unique amidst all the nightclubs and cafes. The actual 'bowling' is done through /random as the number of pins you knock down. Pretty cool! Let's see how you can play.
View attachment 3490284
Private room? Maybe you have performance anxiety and can't bowl in public around other people. :optimistic:
View attachment 3490294
Of course it's an ERP room. We just can't have a cool bowling alley, can we?

View attachment 3490243

Won't some paypiggy give this nice girl a code for a cash shop outfit?

View attachment 3490247
You literally just /random and if you get a certain number that's how many pins you hit? That sounds fucking boring. And I'm NGL a private room in a bowling alley screams Las Vegas to me for some reason.
 
Literally everyone I've ever talked to from WoW that quit (or took an extensive break at best) hates "WoW token"/subscription tokens, because it creates inflation out the ass and it effectively legalized RMT except Blizzard is the one who profits which creates a very notable incentive to just let everything go to shit. Even people who were fine with it at first hate it. Only NEETs who can afford to grind monopoly money forever and people who profit or want legal RMT, like the existence of WoW token.

The only positive is if all you want to do is be able to RMT legally or you want to grind to avoid paying your sub every month, beyond those two things it is a pile of shit.

The inflation was bad back in WoD/Legion when they literally gave you gold just for going to the mission table every 8-10 hours and you could just pay a sub with 4 or 5 max lvl toons doing so. With 12 (1 of each class) I managed to buy the entire blizzard library and the dlc lol.
 
creates a very notable incentive to just let everything go to shit.
It's more of a combination of the token creating some real-world value for gold and the cash shop covering up the obvious consequences of letting go of your GMs. Prior to the wow token, gold was kindof like gil in that while there were certain pretty-decent bits of gear you could pick up, they weren't really that necessary. Food and potions weren't ludicrously expensive, and it wasn't that pricey to level up crafting for the personal benefits. Token comes along, and suddenly there's a use for all of that gold -- and blizzard dropping all of its GMs to appease the bean-counters actually goes rewarded, because the shop (which predated the token) makes so much fucking money from whales.

But what's interesting is the WoW classic example. You can't buy the token with gold from there, and you can't trade the token for gold in there. Nevertheless, the apparent taboo of RMT has been broken, and both vanilla (which was very gold-hungry) and tbc (far less so) are plagued with exorbitant prices, everyone swiping their card for hundreds of dollars a week in RMT, people buying gold from chinamen to boost characters and skip leveling, to buy gear from GDKPs, to buy clears of raids... None of that can really be blamed on the token, beyond that perhaps its existence broke some taboo. It's more, token or not, we have to understand that MMO players are finding new and exciting ways to be pathetic killjoys who care less about having fun than they do about 'achievement' at any cost in a virtual world that will eventually have the plug pulled.
 
If you fags want to actually attempt raiding. I'd be down for it. Main mostly DPS, Bard specifically but can fill with Dragoon or even Machinist.
 
It's more of a combination of the token creating some real-world value for gold and the cash shop covering up the obvious consequences of letting go of your GMs. Prior to the wow token, gold was kindof like gil in that while there were certain pretty-decent bits of gear you could pick up, they weren't really that necessary. Food and potions weren't ludicrously expensive, and it wasn't that pricey to level up crafting for the personal benefits. Token comes along, and suddenly there's a use for all of that gold -- and blizzard dropping all of its GMs to appease the bean-counters actually goes rewarded, because the shop (which predated the token) makes so much fucking money from whales.

But what's interesting is the WoW classic example. You can't buy the token with gold from there, and you can't trade the token for gold in there. Nevertheless, the apparent taboo of RMT has been broken, and both vanilla (which was very gold-hungry) and tbc (far less so) are plagued with exorbitant prices, everyone swiping their card for hundreds of dollars a week in RMT, people buying gold from chinamen to boost characters and skip leveling, to buy gear from GDKPs, to buy clears of raids... None of that can really be blamed on the token, beyond that perhaps its existence broke some taboo. It's more, token or not, we have to understand that MMO players are finding new and exciting ways to be pathetic killjoys who care less about having fun than they do about 'achievement' at any cost in a virtual world that will eventually have the plug pulled.
I can believe that, but I'd say my core argument is that the token more or less just creates a none helpful scenario that encourages really bad habits from developers and breaks all taboo walls. Call it a slippery slope if you want, but I tried to look into this awhile ago because I found the topic interesting due to how alien WoW feels coming from 14 so I tried to engage with a lot of WoW Refugees during 2021. I've since personally concluded based on what I've seen that I just don't think it is helpful enough to be worth all the potential problems.

To me all ideas like this need to answer a simple question, "Does this idea make the game better or worse?" FFXIV token (tm) would probably barely make the game better for the average player, except maybe during a economic recessionary periods or some unforeseen financial issue that can make the time spent grinding gil to buy FFXIV token worth it so someone having a bad financial time can still play the game by spending free time grinding gil instead of their 1-2 hours of work or whatever to just pay the sub normally. But it creates all kinds of murky issues of "legal" RMT vs "illegal" RMT and conflicted interests that I'd rather we just not unearth.

It is as if every idea you implement moves a sliding scale of how good or bad the game is, and FFXIV token (tm) is more likely to make the game worse then better, so I'd rather not have it because unlike a lot of bad ideas this game has had (like ARR relics, janky job choices, OG Diadem, etc) once we open this their is pretty much not a chance in hell that we'll change it. So why take the gamble?

The closest thing to an objectively good thing with this idea from what I know of with WoW is that FFXIV token (tm) ensures you don't RMT from sketchy chinamen who can prey on idiots. Although I know gold farming bots exist in WoW anyway, so I don't know how well that argument holds as I don't know how the bot generated economy works in WoW.
 
Last edited:
I just don't think it is helpful enough to be worth all the potential problems.
It depends on how you approach it - when it was first discussed, a lot of assumptions were made. These were logical assumptions - if Blizzard was going to offer their own RMT, you would think that they'd take some steps to prohibit and go after third parties engaging in RMT - except they never really did, because to actively combat that, you need a customer support department staffed with GMs. Indeed, the existence of the token made it easier to create legions of gold-farming bots: you just need a few to buy low, pay for their own subs, stockpile some tokens, and then sell high - ferry the gold over to other bots, buy low, repeat. The way these transactions work wouldn't be terribly hard to track, nor would the sheer amount of hours that bots were farming - but Blizzard never did.

In the classic iteration of the game, even blatant exploiting was completely unpunished: people were using (what I'm pretty sure were) client-side "hacks" that would communicate their position in the world falsely to the server... which allowed them to fly through the air and under the geography of the game itself. The way that PvP titles worked in the vanilla iteration of the game, it was based on the number of people who had gotten an honorable kill on your server pool - so paid services were creating level 1 characters, using the flying exploit to move them to an area of the game that served no purpose to players, and having them each gain the minimum number of honorable kills against level 1 characters to be entered into the "pool," then repeating. It took Blizzard months to do anything about this, and Blizzard largely still hasn't done a single thing about bots on their classic or their retail servers. That would require GMs, and that would be spending money, and the company needs that money instead to fund ???

The world people were looking at when the token was floated was one in which they still assumed Blizzard cared about the game (wrong even at the time), and one in which the advantages of the token would actually be taken advantage of. If you actually cut out third-party gold farming and you essentially leave that function to legitimate turboautists, inflation within the game shouldn't be too outsize; if you use the revenue generated by the token to create harder content with more longevity and bypass the need for a constant stream of content to keep players coming back, you can take more time to release better-quality content; if you make playing the game carry some semblance of real-world reward, you shouldn't need to create systems that force players to log in day after day after day through timegating just to boost MAUs. But Blizzard did the exact opposite of all of these, and other companies will only ever copy what Blizzard did - never trying to learn from the behemoth's idiotic mistakes. The FF dev team is passionate about their game, but chances are that the bean-counters at Square would use such a token as an excuse to let the quality go down the shitter - because that's what WoW did.
 
A FFXIV Token doesn't make sense simply because there isn't a reason to buy gil in the game.

In WoW - Gold is vital (repairs are constant, skills cost money to train, lots of expensive raid consumables, grinding tradeskills is complete ass, BoE gear is rare and powerful, etc) - Gold is a vital resource in every aspect of the game (PVP, PVE, Raiding, Mount Collecting, Transmog, etc) and is massively powerful. WF Raiding guilds will spend like $9,000 worth of gold (or buy gold, whatever) during the pre-raid prep work for the WF raids.

XIV Gil is just a thing that kind of exists. BoE gear is extremely common and as a result, super cheap (most guilds will just give it away for free) and offers no actual advantages in PVE or PVP (XIV's PVP doesn't use character stats). The "gold sink" mounts in XIV are 25 and 50mil respectively, which is a lot but not anything unattainable for an average player if you just use the Market Board on occasion.

There's nothing in XIV that having gil will help you get, so there isn't a point in stressing about it. There's also a huge probability that if SQENIX implemented one - it would be a huge fucking hassle to buy/use properly - their website is complete and total ass.
 
A FFXIV Token doesn't make sense simply because there isn't a reason to buy gil in the game.

In WoW - Gold is vital (repairs are constant, skills cost money to train, lots of expensive raid consumables, grinding tradeskills is complete ass, BoE gear is rare and powerful, etc) - Gold is a vital resource in every aspect of the game (PVP, PVE, Raiding, Mount Collecting, Transmog, etc) and is massively powerful. WF Raiding guilds will spend like $9,000 worth of gold (or buy gold, whatever) during the pre-raid prep work for the WF raids.

XIV Gil is just a thing that kind of exists. BoE gear is extremely common and as a result, super cheap (most guilds will just give it away for free) and offers no actual advantages in PVE or PVP (XIV's PVP doesn't use character stats). The "gold sink" mounts in XIV are 25 and 50mil respectively, which is a lot but not anything unattainable for an average player if you just use the Market Board on occasion.

There's nothing in XIV that having gil will help you get, so there isn't a point in stressing about it. There's also a huge probability that if SQENIX implemented one - it would be a huge fucking hassle to buy/use properly - their website is complete and total ass.
???

Gil absolutely has a use in XIV... We use it for all the same shit that people need gold for in WoW (houses [lol ok maybe they don't have houses but still], repairs, tradeskills that you can just buy the mats for, pricy raid consumables, purchasable transmogs/crafted gear new raid tiers).

But there is a difference, clearly. Is it just that the gil sinks are less bottomless? Is it easier to make gil? Is gil less required for casual enjoyment of the game? I feel like it's a bit of all of the above tbh.

Either way, I think an XIV Token would be a disaster. I feel like it heavily contributed to driving WoW into the gutter. Fucking terrible idea.
 
Last edited:
Id love an FFXIV Token solely to see RP troons and fags actually pay IRL money for their faggy RP, and the juicy autism that would come out once people started scamming niggas or some shit lmao
 
Id love an FFXIV Token solely to see RP troons and fags actually pay IRL money for their faggy RP, and the juicy autism that would come out once people started scamming niggas or some shit lmao
That already happens with store items now though lol
 
???

Gil absolutely has a use in XIV... We use it for all the same shit that people need gold for in WoW (houses, repairs, tradeskills that you can just buy the mats for, pricy raid consumables, purchasable transmogs/crafted gear new raid tiers).

But there is a difference, clearly. Is it just that the gil sinks are less bottomless? Is it easier to make gil? Is gil less required for casual enjoyment of the game? I feel like it's a bit of all of the above tbh.

Either way, I think an XIV Token would be a disaster. I think it heavily contributed to driving WoW into the gutter. Fucking terrible idea.
They aren't comparable, even in the slightest.

Materials for items in XIV are not rare and are extremely easy to farm. They can be farmed endlessly and easily - and bought near instantly.

Crafting in XIV is not timegated like it is in WoW (no rare BoP mats, no "Crafters mark of the X", no extremely rare recipies). A crafter (even one with every single crafter unlocked) can learn every single newly released recipe inside of an hour.

There are no crafting "specializations" in XIV - you don't need to find (or hope someone in your guild is) a Elixir Specced Alchemist to make potions, for example.

There are no "extremely pricey raid consumables" - it's a food buff and if you want to try extremely hard, a stack of +stat burst potions. Repairs are also dirt cheap (and for most "tryhards", can be paid for with GC seals and/or Ventures instead of Gil) and aren't a blocker for anyone.

Housing is also generally inexpensive. A small house is ~3,000,000 gil, a Medium is ~25,000,000 and a Large is ~50,000,000 - the main blocker is availability and not the gil itself.

Crafted gear is extremely plentiful - and never required. Raiders don't buy gear because the "old" raid gear is typically BIS for the next raid (except for some extremely tiny edge cases that only a handful of people care about. Anyone not super serious about raiding can just gear up in dungeons - either through drops or Tokens (think Justice/Valor except not complete garbage).

Gil doesn't make you more powerful in XIV and unless you're a complete maniac, you'll never run out of it.
 
They aren't comparable, even in the slightest.

Materials for items in XIV are not rare and are extremely easy to farm. They can be farmed endlessly and easily - and bought near instantly.

Crafting in XIV is not timegated like it is in WoW (no rare BoP mats, no "Crafters mark of the X", no extremely rare recipies). A crafter (even one with every single crafter unlocked) can learn every single newly released recipe inside of an hour.

There are no crafting "specializations" in XIV - you don't need to find (or hope someone in your guild is) a Elixir Specced Alchemist to make potions, for example.

There are no "extremely pricey raid consumables" - it's a food buff and if you want to try extremely hard, a stack of +stat burst potions. Repairs are also dirt cheap (and for most "tryhards", can be paid for with GC seals and/or Ventures instead of Gil) and aren't a blocker for anyone.

Housing is also generally inexpensive. A small house is ~3,000,000 gil, a Medium is ~25,000,000 and a Large is ~50,000,000 - the main blocker is availability and not the gil itself.

Crafted gear is extremely plentiful - and never required. Raiders don't buy gear because the "old" raid gear is typically BIS for the next raid (except for some extremely tiny edge cases that only a handful of people care about. Anyone not super serious about raiding can just gear up in dungeons - either through drops or Tokens (think Justice/Valor except not complete garbage).

Gil doesn't make you more powerful in XIV and unless you're a complete maniac, you'll never run out of it.
50 mil is actually a lot for those of us who don't have Market Board autism and it can be difficult to accumulate said wealth without playing into exactly the type of autism that makes people their absolutely ludicrous amounts of gil hand over fist. Not to mention that fact that you have to technically compete with several other motherfuckers to even attain your Monoplay play money because those clowns want to be "in-game rich" as well.

The value in gil comes less from practical applications (at least outside of convenient pre-raid gearing, and I'll circle back around to that point in a minute) and more that it facilitates some artificial measure of value attributed towards the purely cosmetic aspect of the game. With that consideration in mind, a lot of mats specific to that in particular are not, actually, all that easy to farm. Some of them are locked behind Extremes and Savage, which a lot of people are too retarded to do (and usually a savvy "crafter" is going to either be with a raid team who can farm consistently, or they're going to pay a raid team to bring them back said rare mats if they should drop. Usually most of the people realize there's more profit to be had in disguising their intent as goodwill, so they'll kiss ass like hell to these people so that they'll be inclined to give said mats away for free – usually because they've tended to establish themselves as THE FC crafter or something to that effect), and others, particularly the ones tied to whatever the newest glamour outfit they just added to the game, tend to be tied to the treasure map dungeons, and said mats are usually only attainable from successfully completing a full run of those dungeons, which is, as far as I know, entirely RNG dependent.

Beyond that scope, gil is basically used as a shortcut to have things. Don't have your crafters leveled or know anybody that would be willing to do you a favor? Don't want to have to wait to grind out materia and/or materia tokens? Don't want to have to wait just as long and slowly accumulate better gear? Crops growing too slow, retainers are having some shit RNG with what they bring back, airships and submarines aren't bringing you back exactly what you want? You want something right then and there and you don't care to wait on it? You buy what you want off the Market Board. That's basically the long and short of that whole explanation.

Of course, gil also has its measure of influence on people in-game as well, and you can pull a lot of social manipulation among the playerbase through the exchange of currency, as with any currency whatsoever regardless of its practicality and utility.

To declare gil this absolutely worthless thing either means you're ignorant, ridiculously self-sufficient, or you have/make so much of it that it's never an immediate concern for you.
 
They aren't comparable, even in the slightest.

Materials for items in XIV are not rare and are extremely easy to farm. They can be farmed endlessly and easily - and bought near instantly.

Crafting in XIV is not timegated like it is in WoW (no rare BoP mats, no "Crafters mark of the X", no extremely rare recipies). A crafter (even one with every single crafter unlocked) can learn every single newly released recipe inside of an hour.

There are no crafting "specializations" in XIV - you don't need to find (or hope someone in your guild is) a Elixir Specced Alchemist to make potions, for example.

There are no "extremely pricey raid consumables" - it's a food buff and if you want to try extremely hard, a stack of +stat burst potions. Repairs are also dirt cheap (and for most "tryhards", can be paid for with GC seals and/or Ventures instead of Gil) and aren't a blocker for anyone.

Housing is also generally inexpensive. A small house is ~3,000,000 gil, a Medium is ~25,000,000 and a Large is ~50,000,000 - the main blocker is availability and not the gil itself.

Crafted gear is extremely plentiful - and never required. Raiders don't buy gear because the "old" raid gear is typically BIS for the next raid (except for some extremely tiny edge cases that only a handful of people care about. Anyone not super serious about raiding can just gear up in dungeons - either through drops or Tokens (think Justice/Valor except not complete garbage).

Gil doesn't make you more powerful in XIV and unless you're a complete maniac, you'll never run out of it.
Seems like you're moving the goal posts a bit. First it was "gil has no use". Now it's "gil doesn't make you more powerful".
Gil absolutely has uses, and the comparisons I made are perfectly fine. It's just that XIV isn't being designed in such a way to entice people to buy it lol.
 
Seems like you're moving the goal posts a bit. First it was "gil has no use". Now it's "gil doesn't make you more powerful".
Gil absolutely has uses, and the comparisons I made are perfectly fine. It's just that XIV isn't being designed in such a way to entice people to buy it lol.
I didn't - I just said that Gil in XIV doesn't matter enough to design a XIV token.

Generally playing XIV (whatever you do) will earn you gil. Generally playing WoW will cost you gold, which you'll have to make up with grinding and/or the WoW Token.

50 mil is actually a lot for those of us who don't have Market Board autism and it can be difficult to accumulate said wealth without playing into exactly the type of autism that makes people their absolutely ludicrous amounts of gil hand over fist. Not to mention that fact that you have to technically compete with several other motherfuckers to even attain your Monoplay play money because those clowns want to be "in-game rich" as well.

The value in gil comes less from practical applications (at least outside of convenient pre-raid gearing, and I'll circle back around to that point in a minute) and more that it facilitates some artificial measure of value attributed towards the purely cosmetic aspect of the game. With that consideration in mind, a lot of mats specific to that in particular are not, actually, all that easy to farm. Some of them are locked behind Extremes and Savage, which a lot of people are too retarded to do (and usually a savvy "crafter" is going to either be with a raid team who can farm consistently, or they're going to pay a raid team to bring them back said rare mats if they should drop. Usually most of the people realize there's more profit to be had in disguising their intent as goodwill, so they'll kiss ass like hell to these people so that they'll be inclined to give said mats away for free – usually because they've tended to establish themselves as THE FC crafter or something to that effect), and others, particularly the ones tied to whatever the newest glamour outfit they just added to the game, tend to be tied to the treasure map dungeons, and said mats are usually only attainable from successfully completing a full run of those dungeons, which is, as far as I know, entirely RNG dependent.

Beyond that scope, gil is basically used as a shortcut to have things. Don't have your crafters leveled or know anybody that would be willing to do you a favor? Don't want to have to wait to grind out materia and/or materia tokens? Don't want to have to wait just as long and slowly accumulate better gear? Crops growing too slow, retainers are having some shit RNG with what they bring back, airships and submarines aren't bringing you back exactly what you want? You want something right then and there and you don't care to wait on it? You buy what you want off the Market Board. That's basically the long and short of that whole explanation.

Of course, gil also has its measure of influence on people in-game as well, and you can pull a lot of social manipulation among the playerbase through the exchange of currency, as with any currency whatsoever regardless of its practicality and utility.

To declare gil this absolutely worthless thing either means you're ignorant, ridiculously self-sufficient, or you have/make so much of it that it's never an immediate concern for you.
There's a lot here, but...

50 Mil is supposed to be a lot - it's literally the most expensive gil-sink mount in the game or the cost of an entire personal mansion, but it's also extremely attainable. The Market Board in XIV is drastically less competitive/cut-throat because it's extremely hard to bot and most users are limited to 40 "slots" to sell items from.

There are no materials locked behind current Savage or Extreme tiers, they are typically added ~4 years later (aka 2 expansions), when they can be easily done at max level. For example, Susano (from Stormblood) has mats that drop from EX weapons - but you don't exactly need a full sweaty raid team to go in at level 90 and exploded a level 70 boss, it might even be soloable (haven't tried) or duoable. Having any crafting class at level 1 (meaning you just unlocked it) will let you desynth and get mats from the weapons - you don't need a dedicated "desynther" (aka Enchanter in WoW).

Treasure Map mats are random, but, also shit out money, tokens, and materials for every thing you do in them (even the maps that don't open portals). The maps are super easy to come by (any high level gatherer gets one "for free" every 18 hours) and are always worth doing - and are fun on top of that.

Gil as a shortcut is spot on - but even then it isn't super necessary. Leveling crafters is a breeze via levequests and the game actually stops you from being able to buy the finished products at several points during the process. You can use gear to slingshot your power level a bit, but you still have to do all of the MSQ and go through every single dungeon at least once so there's not a major point in doing so, as those dungeons would sync your gear down to a lower level anyhow.

On top of that - there's virtually no "new gear tax" in XIV. There are no enchants, no reforging, no armor packs or whatever - just (typically) 2 Materia slots. There are no random "World Drops", no super rare mobs (with silver plates) with super rare drops, no random kobold dropping a max level BoE worth 5,000,000 gold - it's all just predictable stuff.

I never said that Gil is completely worthless - just that it isn't a vital resource. No raider in XIV has ever sweat a repair bill or consumable cost because they're just so cheap. No raider (or raid team) has ever farmed gil in order to get some kind of competitive advantage over other teams (unlike WoW).

The main reason is that in XIV you can much more easily be self sufficient and the game encourages you to do so (Armory Bonus, Levequets, Beast Tribes, etc) where as it's way fucking harder in WoW,
 
50 Mil is supposed to be a lot - it's literally the most expensive gil-sink mount in the game or the cost of an entire personal mansion, but it's also extremely attainable. The Market Board in XIV is drastically less competitive/cut-throat because it's extremely hard to bot and most users are limited to 40 "slots" to sell items from.
You fucking what, m8? The Market Board is still plenty cutthroat and a lot of assholes will undercut at vendor price or even lower just under the excuse that they're "helping".

There are no materials locked behind current Savage or Extreme tiers, they are typically added ~4 years later (aka 2 expansions), when they can be easily done at max level. For example, Susano (from Stormblood) has mats that drop from EX weapons - but you don't exactly need a full sweaty raid team to go in at level 90 and exploded a level 70 boss, it might even be soloable (haven't tried) or duoable. Having any crafting class at level 1 (meaning you just unlocked it) will let you desynth and get mats from the weapons - you don't need a dedicated "desynther" (aka Enchanter in WoW).
I'm not talking about the glamour weapons that get added later though. A lot of then-current indoor and outdoor furnishings and Chocobo bardings required mats from then-current Extremes and Savages. I don't know if that's CURRENTLY the case as I've never bothered looking into furnishings or bardings for this expac as of yet, but it was certainly the case beforehand. It was also something of a status symbol to have said cosmetics on display when it's still current.

Treasure Map mats are random, but, also shit out money, tokens, and materials for every thing you do in them (even the maps that don't open portals). The maps are super easy to come by (any high level gatherer gets one "for free" every 18 hours) and are always worth doing - and are fun on top of that.
I never said they weren't. A lot of current/latest glamour recipes still require mats that drop solely from a full run of those dungeons, though.

Leveling crafters is a breeze via levequests and the game actually stops you from being able to buy the finished products at several points during the process. You can use gear to slingshot your power level a bit, but you still have to do all of the MSQ and go through every single dungeon at least once so there's not a major point in doing so, as those dungeons would sync your gear down to a lower level anyhow.
See my repeated points about how not everyone cares to level their crafters and gatherers in order to make what they want for themselves. This is why the gil shortcut exists, to buy things off the people who do.

On top of that - there's virtually no "new gear tax" in XIV.
There is if you don't feel like grinding tomestones to gear for the next raid tier, which is how the crafted catchup gear tends to become so popular. Especially more so if someone is the kind of sped inclined towards insisting on pentamelding, which makes everything way more expensive. The double-edged sword to this is that, on patch day when those gearsets get added, the prices are incredibly competitive due to everyone wanting to be the first to establish the new market on it, so you CAN reasonably get simple HQ two-slots fairly cheap if you hop on and watch the Market Board across servers like a hawk. I'm pretty sure this is only going to be exacerbated by Data Center Travel now too. Which... There's you yet another way in which gil serves as a vital resource for some.

I never said that Gil is completely worthless - just that it isn't a vital resource. No raider in XIV has ever sweat a repair bill or consumable cost because they're just so cheap. No raider (or raid team) has ever farmed gil in order to get some kind of competitive advantage over other teams (unlike WoW).

The main reason is that in XIV you can much more easily be self sufficient and the game encourages you to do so (Armory Bonus, Levequets, Beast Tribes, etc) where as it's way fucking harder in WoW.
It would be far more accurate to say that gil "isn't a vital resource" depending on subjective circumstances. For you, it might not be. For a lot of other people, it is.

In fact, this whole debate started from you saying:
There's nothing in XIV that having gil will help you get, so there isn't a point in stressing about it.
But you've been given told plenty of things by this point that gil helps you get, regardless of your own capabilities of acquiring those things for yourself. Gil still has its importance in many facets. And I guarantee you there's plenty of fuckers who would very gladly participate in "official" RMT if there was ever some formalized "XIV Token" which they could buy with actual money and then turn around and trade off for gil.
 
@Tanner Glass
I didn't - I just said that Gil in XIV doesn't matter enough to design a XIV token.
Idk why but I can't quote your post, so this'll have to do lol.

Initially you were saying that "There's nothing in XIV that having gil will help you get", which is really what I took issue with because it's just not true.
Your point about making gil via playing/spending gold while playing is fair, but there's still stuff that gil can help you buy in XIV, and while you can make gil just playing, you can easily spend it too. It might not be as impactful as gold in WoW, but it's still helpful to have, and I'll maintain that it isn't always easy to get exorbitant amounts.

Imo, They are comparable, but very different:
In XIV gil is just a currency. It's helpful for certain things, but it's mostly a luxury.
In WoW gold is a currency, but it's also integrated into a sort of timegating system where you really need to either grind gold or purchase it. That's exactly what I want to prevent in XIV.

Either way, ironically we both agree that (for one reason or another) an "XIV token" would be a bad idea.
 
Last edited:
It would be far more accurate to say that gil "isn't a vital resource" depending on subjective circumstances. For you, it might not be. For a lot of other people, it is.

In fact, this whole debate started from you saying:

But you've been given told plenty of things by this point that gil helps you get, regardless of your own capabilities of acquiring those things for yourself. Gil still has its importance in many facets. And I guarantee you there's plenty of fuckers who would very gladly participate in "official" RMT if there was ever some formalized "XIV Token" which they could buy with actual money and then turn around and trade off for gil.
Maybe we just disagree on "vital"?

- WoW raiders need gold. Consumables are remarkably rare and expensive - "catch up gear"/BoEs are insanely expensive. My comparison point here was WF guilds could be expected to spend $7,000 to $15,000 on gear and consumables. Enchants are expensive, materials are expensive, and so on.

FFXIV raiders do not need gil, a "full raid night" costs ~7,000 gil in consumables - if your guild doesn't just give them to you for free. XIV raiders do not need "catch up" gear - the last tier of Raid Gear is typically the most powerful until the new tier. Dungeon Gear, Crafted Gear, Primal EX gear are typically not as powerful. There are some edge cases where turbo nerds will find that a crafted item (typically a ring), pentamelded, is 0.005% better but most raiders do not give a shit. XIV is not a gear based game, it's more timing/burst window/positioning/mechanics.

- WoW PvP'ers need gold. Consumables work in battlegrounds and PVE gear is useful in PVP (and vice versa) and having a literal power advantage over your opponent is massive (and also incredibly unfun). This also creates a negative synergy between PVP'ers having to PVE and PVE'ers having to PVE for each other's gear.

FFXIV PvP'ers do not need gil. There is no gear in PVP, no usable items, no anything. All rewards are cosmetic and use their own PVP currency (Wolf Marks, Collars, and whatever the new shit is). There is no boosting or crossover with PVE in any way.

- WoW leveling characters need gold. Gear and repairs get more expensive as you level, travel gets massively expensive (epic mount, then flying, then epic flying, then whatever else the fuck) quickly and directly affects your leveling speed.

XIV leveling characters do not need gil. While some things cost money, the MSQ literally shits money at you to a point where it is not remotely a problem. Gear is extremely plentiful as well, you basically get a full set every 5 levels (pre 50) or 2 levels (post 50).

and so on. I guess by "vital" I mean "necessary".

Idk why but I can't quote your post, so this'll have to do lol.

Initially you were saying that "There's nothing in XIV that having gil will help you get", which is really what I took issue with because it's just not true.
Your point about making gil via playing/spending gold while playing is fair, but there's still stuff that gil can help you buy in XIV, and while you can make gil just playing, you can easily spend it too. It might not be as impactful as gold in WoW, but it's still helpful to have, and I'll maintain that it isn't always easy to get exorbitant amounts.

Imo, They are comparable, but very different:
In XIV gil is just a currency. It's helpful for certain things, but it's mostly a luxury.
In WoW gold is a currency, but it's also integrated into a sort of timegating system where you really need to either grind gold or purchase it. That's exactly what I want to prevent in XIV.

Either way, ironically we both agree that (for one reason or another) an "XIV token" would be a bad idea.
Fair enough - I probably could phrased it better. I guess I should have said "There's nothing that Gil will get you that isn't fairly easily gotten elsewhere".
 
Back
Top Bottom