UN Fact Check: Crime in Germany is down - If you just ignore all the rape

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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/18/world/europe/fact-check-trump-germany.html

BERLIN — President Trump castigated the German government on Monday for its open-door policy toward migrants, saying that it was responsible for an increase in crime and could conceivably lead to the downfall of Chancellor Angela Merkel’s coalition.

The people of Germany are turning against their leadership as migration is rocking the already tenuous Berlin coalition. Crime in Germany is way up. Big mistake made all over Europe in allowing millions of people in who have so strongly and violently changed their culture!

He followed a day later with a second tweet defending his comments and accusing Germany of underreporting crime, saying, “Crime in Germany is up 10% plus (officials do not want to report these crimes) since migrants were accepted.”

Here are some of Mr. Trump’s assertions on Twitter and fact checks of those statements.

‘Crime in Germany Is Way Up’

False.

Crime statistics for 2017 showed the lowest level of crime in Germany in 25 years, according to figures released in May by the federal criminal office.

Although there have been attacks by militants aligned with the Islamic State, as well as high-profile murders and assaults by migrant men, the statistics refute Mr. Trump’s suggestion.

Not only was the overall crime rate down 5.1 percent over the previous year, violent crime (down 2.4 percent) and property theft (an 11.8 percent decrease) both dropped.

So-called street crime was down by 8.6 percent. In cases where a suspect had been identified, crimes committed by non-Germans were down by 2.7 percent, while crimes committed by Germans were down by 2.2 percent.

Fraud (up 1.3 percent), computer fraud (a 2.8 percent increase) and drug offenses (9.2 percent higher) all rose, but the number of illegal border crossings dropped 79.9 percent.

Germans Are ‘Turning Against Their Leadership’
Misleading.

Migration is at the heart of the current political crisis in Germany — the country is struggling to absorb more than one million migrants — and threatens to tear apart the governing coalition led by Ms. Merkel and her Christian Democratic Union.

The issue has weakened Ms. Merkel and her party, contributing to an environment in which far-right groups have flourished. But there are no clear indicators that the German people as a whole have turned against the government.

It is true that the country’s mainstream parties — the Christian Democrats, the Social Democrats and the Christian Social Union — have lost votessince Ms. Merkel introduced her open-door policy in 2015. But, together, they still accounted for more than 53 percent of the vote in elections last September. And even as she has come under heavy criticism, Ms. Merkel remains the country’s most popular politician.

The reason for the political crisis is a split in Ms. Merkel’s coalition. Interior Minister Horst Seehofer, leader of the Christian Social Union, is facing elections in Bavaria against the far-right Alternative for Germany party, or AfD.

Although the AfD’s level of support in polls is only about 15 percent, Mr. Seehofer wants to stem the party’s momentum and protect his flank on the political right.

Ahead of a state election in Bavaria in October, Mr. Seehofer is demanding that the government tighten its policy on accepting migrants who are arriving in Germany through another European Union country. Ms. Merkel has resisted, since the change would violate European Union law.
Migration Has ‘Strongly and Violently’ Changed European Culture
Needs more context.

There is little doubt the huge wave of migration that began hitting Europe in 2015 has placed enormous strains on European unity. Leaders and officials have been unable to come up with a practical and cohesive strategy to deal with the influx of a mostly Muslim migrant population.

The tensions have been visible in various forms around the Continent:

• Migration played a crucial role for British voters to decide withdraw from the European Union, commonly known as Brexit.

The facilities used to house migrants arriving in Greece, a common landing point for many migrants, are often dangerous and decrepit.

Prime Minister Viktor Orban of Hungary is among the nationalist leaders who have used migrants as a foil to bolster their political positions.

Most recently, Italy, which now includes a right-wing, anti-immigrant party as part of its governing coalition, refused to accept a boat carrying more than 600 migrants; it was eventually taken in by Spain.

And yet, for all of that, there is little to support Mr. Trump’s declaration that migration has “strongly and violently” changed European culture. It has certainly changed European politics, though.

If you click on the link to the German crime statistics pamphlet, you see this:

upload_2018-6-19_20-4-13.png

Which shows a whopping 40% increase in rape and sexual coercion/sexual assaults.
The excuse is that Germany changed its consent laws recently to cover more crimes, which is the same excuse Sweden has been using for some time. They can't figure out the difference between crimes that would have been covered under the previous laws and show the increase in those?
 
The excuse is that Germany changed its consent laws recently to cover more crimes, which is the same excuse Sweden has been using for some time.

If these statistics are true, I'd wager it's the opposite.
Anyone in power would not want anything bad to rise during their time in office.

Let me give you an example.
Lets say I rule Israel, and during my time in office, the GDP has sunk and is going downhill fast, unemployment is up, etc.
What would I do to keep myself from harm? How would I hide the statistics? I would start public works projects, (tackling both gdp and unemployment in one go) to cover up my failure while in office.
So why Merkel of all people would decide to increase the crime by widening what "counts" is beyond me, especially when she just took in people from a different part of the world that plays by vastly different rules. That'd make her absolutely politically illiterate. And to her credit, she really isn't.
 
If these statistics are true, I'd wager it's the opposite.
Anyone in power would not want anything bad to rise during their time in office.

Let me give you an example.
Lets say I rule Israel, and during my time in office, the GDP has sunk and is going downhill fast, unemployment is up, etc.
What would I do to keep myself from harm? How would I hide the statistics? I would start public works projects, (tackling both gdp and unemployment in one go) to cover up my failure while in office.
So why Merkel of all people would decide to increase the crime by widening what "counts" is beyond me, especially when she just took in people from a different part of the world that plays by vastly different rules. That'd make her absolutely politically illiterate. And to her credit, she really isn't.
Or it's a really convenient way to make comparing pre-definition change and post-definition change statistics basically impossible. If they didn't change the way they define rape, opponents of immigration would have a strong argument just by stating pre-immigration and post-immigration rape statistics.

Also, if the definition had been changed to make it harder to classify something as rape, then it would be pretty obvious that the goal of the change would be to make the numbers look better. But because it was changed so that more things are classified as rape, it's impossible to know how much of the increase is due to the definition change, and how much is due to the migrants, plus the government gets to look like they're taking it seriously by calling more things rape, regardless of what they're actually doing about it in real life.
 
The biggest crime is that since the influx of fugitives I see spat sunflower shells everywhere. That really makes me mad...
For real, I dont really trust Merkel anymore, since the co2 / Abgasskandal / VW, AUDi etc manipulation scandal and that it was uncovered Merkel knew everything but closed her eyes to it.
If these crimes are indeed going up that would be horrible and probably leading to the downfall of Merkel. But its hard to proof, you can really twist any researches like you want:
For example, the right always states foreigners do the most crimes. The left says this is because if a foreigner comes illegal to germany that is a crime in itself, so of course many of them are the moment they set their feet on german soil criminals.

I live in close proximity to a couple of group homes for fugitives; they all live in barracks formerly used by americans or brits (there are countless of these unused barracks all over germany).
And security is as stringent as it was when the military still used them, as a non fugitive you cannot come close to the barracks, you will be forced away. Barbed wire everywhere. The migraants are literally living in some kinds of enclaves.

I never had any problem with these fugitives though, and the rise of african mailcarriers or garbagemen, and also many of them starting businesses makes me happy.
Again, anyone that does crimes needs to be kicked out immediately.
 
Before I came onto the thread I was wondering if der fuhrer came back. Guess not.
 
The biggest crime is that since the influx of fugitives I see spat sunflower shells everywhere. That really makes me mad...
For real, I dont really trust Merkel anymore, since the co2 / Abgasskandal / VW, AUDi etc manipulation scandal and that it was uncovered Merkel knew everything but closed her eyes to it.
If these crimes are indeed going up that would be horrible and probably leading to the downfall of Merkel. But its hard to proof, you can really twist any researches like you want:
For example, the right always states foreigners do the most crimes. The left says this is because if a foreigner comes illegal to germany that is a crime in itself, so of course many of them are the moment they set their feet on german soil criminals.

I live in close proximity to a couple of group homes for fugitives; they all live in barracks formerly used by americans or brits (there are countless of these unused barracks all over germany).
And security is as stringent as it was when the military still used them, as a non fugitive you cannot come close to the barracks, you will be forced away. Barbed wire everywhere. The migraants are literally living in some kinds of enclaves.

I never had any problem with these fugitives though, and the rise of african mailcarriers or garbagemen, and also many of them starting businesses makes me happy.
Again, anyone that does crimes needs to be kicked out immediately.

I think the main issue is this - Germany like most of the EU has imported people from shitholes and instead of saying, "Ok people of the shitholes, we know you didnt have good mores and norms back home, but here in ___, we expect you to be to this exact standard and give up your old ways". No, instead they decided to lower the standards of their own countries to that of the shitholes and said to the new arrivals "Eh, spank us harder, we deserve it". That's not how immigration should ever work.
 
I think the main issue is this - Germany like most of the EU has imported people from shitholes and instead of saying, "Ok people of the shitholes, we know you didnt have good mores and norms back home, but here in ___, we expect you to be to this exact standard and give up your old ways". No, instead they decided to lower the standards of their own countries to that of the shitholes and said to the new arrivals "Eh, spank us harder, we deserve it". That's not how immigration should ever work.

Germany has always been accepting of fugitives, and it is very clear that it does not work how you describe it. Any country that takes fugitives does it also for image reasons. So of course its not always a samaritarian move (dont know if that is even right grammar, sorry).
We are a rich country and can share our wealth, but on the other hand Merkel hoped to get potential workforce into the country. No one said, ah thats going to be easy. We have had a high number of turkish people coming to us in the past, and while many of them still feel turkish after decades, they are good people and business-minded. What do you expect, every fugitive to wear lederhosen and taking a jodelkurs?? That is how immigration does not work. Germany is a transit-country in the middle of europe. We always had countless foreigners here. Our economy is still good, my sister does not wear a burka or is forced to learn russian.
 
Germany has always been accepting of fugitives, and it is very clear that it does not work how you describe it. Any country that takes fugitives does it also for image reasons. So of course its not always a samaritarian move (dont know if that is even right grammar, sorry).
We are a rich country and can share our wealth, but on the other hand Merkel hoped to get potential workforce into the country. No one said, ah thats going to be easy. We have had a high number of turkish people coming to us in the past, and while many of them still feel turkish after decades, they are good people and business-minded. What do you expect, every fugitive to wear lederhosen and taking a jodelkurs?? That is how immigration does not work. Germany is a transit-country in the middle of europe. We always had countless foreigners here. Our economy is still good, my sister does not wear a burka or is forced to learn russian.

I don't know, I mean I still think you guys are living in a shit hole now and I certainly wouldn't live there for anything. Thank fuck I live on a "racist island" who turns boat crims the fuck away.
 
Afaik, they are using a police statistic where even the police admits that it's conceptionally flawed and misleading.
It's not so much a statistic about crime rates and more about police activity, the way I understand it.

Certain crimes are dropping (murder, for one), but there's other crimes that are on the rise (such as knife attacks or assault).
With rape, it's hard to tell, since a lot of that is not made public, but the cases that get into the media can boil your blood.
All in all, it's hard to say whether it's getting worse or not (especially when some things increase while others decrease), but I can tell you that you can't help but feel a lot less safe at night, since you constantly hear about people getting beaten up and robbed by "dark skinned people".
Though that could be an issue of such crimes getting more publicity than before.
On average, there's a murder every day in Germany, but when a refugee knives some poor girl that gets spread out across international media.
Meanwhile, Mrs Schmidt shooting her husband is not going to get as much attention - that is to say, you can't really rely on the media in order to gouge the actual level or severity of crime in Germany. And this statistic isn't helping much either.

Funny thing is, both SPD and CDU used to demand a crime statistic where crimes committed by foreigners and 2nd/3rd generation offspring of migrants should be listed seperately. But in the 10+ years they have been demanding that, they somehow never got around to get that shit done when they were in charge :thinking:

I'll try to find some time to check this out more thoroughly, but suffice it to say, "Crime rates are dropping in Germany" is a bit of a stretch. It seems more like crime is shifting from one thing to the other.
 
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