Euphoric atheists

[Absolutetense]

You realize that you are a fucko also, right?

If being a person that doesn’t believe in a religion is being a fucko then yes. Coming through my post it should be clear what kind of atheists I call fuckos.

 

[Sparkling Yuzu]

He claims to ‘not hate Christianity’, but gets his jimmys rustled awfully easily over Christians doing Christian things, and I don’t think he’s fully grasped the fact that Jehovahs Witnesses and Mormons are not actually Christians.

I was raised agnostic and even I know Mormons and Joe Hoes aren't real xtians. Sometimes my grandparents took me to Catholic and Anglican church with them. When JWs knocked on their door to proselytize, he would pull out his Bible drunk and try to educate them on Christian theology and what they got wrong. Or my dad would just send the dogs after them.
I also like Telltale and agree with your comment. If your reference for the Christian religion is fucking Mormonism, 7th Day Adventist or JWs, you're going to be massively confused. All he needs is to go to a progressive Christian church and see that he mostly agrees with them and that Christians can be reasonable.

 

[John Titor]

Do these motherfuckers not understand the reason Christianity is still that much around is because of the social community?
I changed my behavior when I was about 23 years old, admittedly a bit late but that’s when I realized it.

The more you cry „those stories are not true“ the more non listeners you have from the believers side because it goes against what holds them as a group together, even closer with atheists dumbfucks like these talking this drivel.

Notice they did fellate hitchens to an almost godly status, where as hitchens so many times counted on his audience seeing themselves as individuals, which then makes attacks on ridiculous bible stories a good sounding argument.

Who is going to argue as Christian that raping children in catholic institutions is a good thing? Yet these assholes focus (not downplaying rape of children) their energy on these extremes while the Christian community member is going to be like „yeah disgusting, still going on Sunday and bbq after that“
Because if the alternative for those people to this religious community are these unwashed motherfuckers looking like captain-chromosome-defect with their superiority on the internet, then it’s a pass for many if not all.

I can’t fucking stand these atheist fuckos and I don’t believe in any religion.

I'm noticing a pattern where atheists seem to think their opinions to a stranger holds more weight than say a family member's of the stranger.

 

[Positron]

Unlike political ideologies, the tenet of Christianity is very simple, so simple that you should have no problem explaining it to a 3-year-old: "If someone gave up his life so you can live better, shouldn't you be grateful for him, listen to what he says, and follow his instructions to the max? Jesus is that person". All the understandings are extra and can come later; you don't need to study Theology and History of Biblical Hermeneutics to be a Christian.

On the contrary, you cannot claim you understand Science unless you can at least articulate what the Scientific Method is, and I won't be surprised if less than 10% of the Fucking Love Science crowd can.

 

[LeChampion1992]

Unlike political ideologies, the tenet of Christianity is very simple, so simple that you should have no problem explaining it to a 3-year-old: "If someone gave up his life so you can live better, shouldn't you be grateful for him, listen to what he says, and follow his instructions to the max? Jesus is that person". All the understandings are extra and can come later; you don't need to study Theology and History of Biblical Hermeneutics to be a Christian.

On the contrary, you cannot claim you understand Science unless you can at least articulate what the Scientific Method is, and I won't be surprised if less than 10% of the Fucking Love Science crowd can.

The fucking I love soyience crowd are people of mid level intelligence, trying to portray themselves to the moral masses as your moral betters, because of their perceived intelligence. These are the people who think because they poll smarter then trump supporters on average, that they're somehow entitled to lord their opinion over everyone else.

I'm noticing a pattern where atheists seem to think their opinions to a stranger holds more weight than say a family member's of the stranger.

I mean you'll never find someone more religiously fanatical then a euphoric atheist.

 

[Michael Pemulis]

Unlike political ideologies, the tenet of Christianity is very simple, so simple that you should have no problem explaining it to a 3-year-old: "If someone gave up his life so you can live better, shouldn't you be grateful for him, listen to what he says, and follow his instructions to the max? Jesus is that person".

If you don't have any idea that he's actually saying, you don't understand it, you're just nodding your head along to a leading question. Plus, that's retarded. Lots of people give their lives hoping it would somehow better humanity, it happens every day. Many of those people are wrong, some of them are actually insane.

The idea that Jesus is the only person who ever sacrificed his life is just irritating. The reason that became the narrative in Christianity is precisely that it was something people were used to and placed importance on, human sacrifice. We have mass graves of people who voluntarily let themselves be sacrificed.

 

[Flaming Insignias]

Oh no, the euphoria is coming from inside the thread!

 

[Michael Pemulis]

I was raised agnostic and even I know Mormons and Joe Hoes aren't real xtians. Sometimes my grandparents took me to Catholic and Anglican church with them. When JWs knocked on their door to proselytize, he would pull out his Bible drunk and try to educate them on Christian theology and what they got wrong. Or my dad would just send the dogs after them.
I also like Telltale and agree with your comment. If your reference for the Christian religion is fucking Mormonism, 7th Day Adventist or JWs, you're going to be massively confused. All he needs is to go to a progressive Christian church and see that he mostly agrees with them and that Christians can be reasonable.

While it's undeniable that Mormonism is 'weird' and has overtly added its own shit on top of Christianity (rather than simply re-interpreting it), there is no such thing as "real Christianity". It means wildly different things to different people and there is no way for an outsider to reasonably say which view is 'legitimate'.

It only works from the inside, declaring your own view to be "real Christianity". Lots of protestants I've met don't consider catholics to be christians at all (not just "bad christians", or whatever). Many of them don't even know the word "protestant", they think of themselves simply as "christian" and expect everyone else to accept that they have the only valid view.

Oh no, the euphoria is coming from inside the thread!

By which you mean holding the discussion.

 

[Shaka Brah]

These are the people who think because they poll smarter then trump supporters on average, that they're somehow entitled to lord their opinion over everyone else.

They're higher in educational attainment, but educational attainment no longer correlates with IQ as strongly as it did before the 2000s, especially since demographics with a lower average intelligence are the most devout voter base for Ds.

 

[NIA-DOA 2.0]

Honestly, I have mixed opinions.

Yeah. Their are a lot of self-important atheists.

BUT, I have also met some really passive aggressively bigoted religious folks as well.

I guess just try to be decent to people the best you can is what I am saying. I dunno...

 

[Wormy]

I guess just try to be decent to people the best you can is what I am saying. I dunno...

That's what one should do.

It's not enough anymore, sadly. For anyone.

 

[A Very Big Fish]

While it's undeniable that Mormonism is 'weird' and has overtly added its own shit on top of Christianity (rather than simply re-interpreting it), there is no such thing as "real Christianity". It means wildly different things to different people and there is no way for an outsider to reasonably say which view is 'legitimate'.

It only works from the inside, declaring your own view to be "real Christianity". Lots of protestants I've met don't consider catholics to be christians at all (not just "bad christians", or whatever). Many of them don't even know the word "protestant", they think of themselves simply as "christian" and expect everyone else to accept that they have the only valid view.

By which you mean holding the discussion.

If you can't say anyone isn't a "real Christian", are Muslims Christian? They believe in Jesus, though not in the same way Christians do. But neither do Jehovah's Witnesses. I heard that some Buddhist's think that Jesus was a Bodhisattva, but they don't consider themselves Christian. Are Jew's Christian if they acknowledge that Christ existed but don't worship him? Is everyone who believes that Jesus existed in some capacity a Christian even if they're otherwise an Atheist?

I won't pretend I know what the best metric is, but saying there isn't one seems to me a bit too far in the opposite direction.

 

[Michael Pemulis]

If you can't say anyone isn't a "real Christian", are Muslims Christian? They believe in Jesus, though not in the same way Christians do. But neither do Jehovah's Witnesses. I heard that some Buddhist's think that Jesus was a Bodhisattva, but they don't consider themselves Christian. Are Jew's Christian if they acknowledge that Christ existed but don't worship him? Is everyone who believes that Jesus existed in some capacity a Christian even if they're otherwise an Atheist?

I won't pretend I know what the best metric is, but saying there isn't one seems to me a bit too far in the opposite direction.

I get what you're saying, but the fact that there are groups that pretty undeniably are not Christians does not mean there is any meaningful way (from an outside perspective) to say who is a real christian. I'm not just trying to be pedantic here, I'm talking about this because this idea has 'teeth'. It creates this assumption that these "fake christians" are irrelevant and that the only part that counts is this idea of a "true christian", which you can never pin down but surely must be there. It's basically the No True Scotsman fallacy. This view prevents you from seeing what is going on with a critical eye, so you can come to a practical assessment of the religion and religion as a concept.

Also, I'm not quite clear what you're saying about Jehovah's Witnesses. I think they are pretty solidly Christians, and they get an unfair shake due to their obnoxious presentation and creepy shit behind closed doors. Their actual doctrine is quite moderate and their cosmology is happy rather than "everyone who disagrees with me gets tortured lmao!" I think people just assume they believe that because that's what other door-knocking, street demonstrating Christians tend to believe.

 

[marisa #]

It creates this assumption that these "fake christians" are irrelevant and that the only part that counts is this idea of a "true christian", which you can never pin down but surely must be there.

Their actual doctrine is quite moderate and their cosmology is happy rather than "everyone who disagrees with me gets tortured lmao!"

I'm gonna have to push back on this a bit. For reference, I'm a member of a fairly conservative branch of Lutheranism. Admiteddly a pretty recent member, so others might be more well-spoken on this.

During my confirmation, I asked a variation of your first point, "If other denominations disagree on finer details, will they be denied Heaven for being 'false christians'?" His response: "No: the only requirements to enter Heaven are baptism, believing in Christ's sacrifice for humanity, and following the Lord's Law (namely the 10 commandments). Everything else is secondary." Even my branch of Christianity doesn't deny them as "true christians".

As for the 2nd point, the main point of Christ's sacrifice is being able to seek forgiveness. If truly repentant for some wrong you've committed, you are forgiven, no exceptions. You will noy be denied Heaven for it. Prior to His sacrifice, this was not the case: if you messed up, you were fucked. It has nothing to do with whether you "disagree" or not.

 

[A Very Big Fish]

I get what you're saying, but the fact that there are groups that pretty undeniably are not Christians does not mean there is any meaningful way (from an outside perspective) to say who is a real christian. I'm not just trying to be pedantic here, I'm talking about this because this idea has 'teeth'. It creates this assumption that these "fake christians" are irrelevant and that the only part that counts is this idea of a "true christian", which you can never pin down but surely must be there. It's basically the No True Scotsman fallacy. This view prevents you from seeing what is going on with a critical eye, so you can come to a practical assessment of the religion and religion as a concept.

Also, I'm not quite clear what you're saying about Jehovah's Witnesses. I think they are pretty solidly Christians, and they get an unfair shake due to their obnoxious presentation and creepy shit behind closed doors. Their actual doctrine is quite moderate and their cosmology is happy rather than "everyone who disagrees with me gets tortured lmao!" I think people just assume they believe that because that's what other door-knocking, street demonstrating Christians tend to believe.

For JW's I don't mean they are or aren't Christian. My point is their view on Christ is pretty outside the norm from more mainstream Christians. For example, they think Jesus was annihilated on death until he came back and then he became Jesus and Archangel Michael, they're anti trinity, and God isn't omnipresent, omniscient, and a whole bunch of other stuff that isn't contingent with most other Christians. They also have this weird schizo prophecy reading about how the second coming was in like 1914 (I think, might have the year wrong). There was a video I saw a while back that went through all differences between JWs and more mainstream Christianity, I'll see if I can find it after work.

I don't necessarily think JWs and Mormons aren't Christian, but I think they're Christians with a very big asterisk attached. My point wasn't that they weren't Christian's but that their view of him was atypical to the average Christian.

 

[AnOminous]

I get what you're saying, but the fact that there are groups that pretty undeniably are not Christians does not mean there is any meaningful way (from an outside perspective) to say who is a real christian.

I'm not ignoring the rest of what you said, but I think as with most things, there are some clear-cut cases where someone actually could be obviously not a Christian. For instance, if someone claimed to be a Christian and didn't even believe Jesus was the Messiah, how could that not be a fake Christian?

There's a much larger list of beliefs shared between Catholics/Orthodox/Protestants, and I would have a hard time considering people who deviate from many or most of those to be "real" Christians. Maybe they'd be people identifying as Christians, sort of like the Christians called Messianic Jews are choosing to identify as Jews despite not actually being Jews.

 

[Adamska]

On the contrary, you cannot claim you understand Science unless you can at least articulate what the Scientific Method is, and I won't be surprised if less than 10% of the Fucking Love Science crowd can.

The scientific method is pretty simple to get, but it does require people to take fat Ls if the results come up poor. A lot of the Fucking Love Science people can't do that since being wrong makes brain meat feel bad.

As to christians and what makes them? I tend to believe that Jovos count despite their weird revisionism, but Mormons do not. Why that? Because the Book of Mormon and the way Joseph Smith kind of became a new prophet. It's Christian-Adjacent, but I see it as too seperated. Similar to how I view the Druze religion to be a split-off of Islam due to its very different doctrines.

 

[Hyro]

For JW's I don't mean they are or aren't Christian. My point is their view on Christ is pretty outside the norm from more mainstream Christians. For example, they think Jesus was annihilated on death until he came back and then he became Jesus and Archangel Michael, they're anti trinity, and God isn't omnipresent, omniscient, and a whole bunch of other stuff that isn't contingent with most other Christians. They also have this weird schizo prophecy reading about how the second coming was in like 1914 (I think, might have the year wrong). There was a video I saw a while back that went through all differences between JWs and more mainstream Christianity, I'll see if I can find it after work.

I don't necessarily think JWs and Mormons aren't Christian, but I think they're Christians with a very big asterisk attached. My point wasn't that they weren't Christian's but that their view of him was atypical to the average Christian.

To be honest this is one of those subjective things neither side will ever resolve between each other. JWs very much believe they are THE true Christians and that all other Christians are apostates that have corrupted Christianity, and likewise mainstream Christians think the same but the other way around. Who is or isn't a Christian is just going to be a matter of perspective to some extent.

 

[A Very Big Fish]

To be honest this is one of those subjective things neither side will ever resolve between each other. JWs very much believe they are THE true Christians and that all other Christians are apostates that have corrupted Christianity, and likewise mainstream Christians think the same but the other way around. Who is or isn't a Christian is just going to be a matter of perspective to some extent.

Sure, but that's hardly useful. Not to mention that even in just the Christian population, JWs are a miniscule minority. Out of approximately 2.6 billion adherents, there are about 8.5 million JWs. While that doesn't mean they aren't Christian, they certainly aren't mainstream or the average.

Hell, if we take some of just the most basic Christian denominations and add em up, I get 1.7 billion and that's just between Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, and Lutheran. I'm not hugely knowledgable about Baptists, Methodists, etc. but I would wager those groups fall closer to the Lutherans than the JW end of the spectrum. Obviously, numbers don't make one right or wrong, but they do show that the JWs aren't a good representative or standard to look at for describing Christian views.

 

[Michael Pemulis]

As for the 2nd point, the main point of Christ's sacrifice is being able to seek forgiveness. If truly repentant for some wrong you've committed, you are forgiven, no exceptions. You will noy be denied Heaven for it. Prior to His sacrifice, this was not the case: if you messed up, you were fucked. It has nothing to do with whether you "disagree" or not.

I'm not sure why you're getting defensive, if you don't think that way then you don't have to defend yourself about this.

But now that you've brought it up, I think you should consider that your view still sends most of the world's population to hell (assuming you also believe in hell, some don't). By adding other christians to the list, you've just increased the percentage that is saved from a small minority to a larger minority. That's not exactly a happy model from where I stand.

For example, they think Jesus was annihilated on death until he came back and then he became Jesus and Archangel Michael, they're anti trinity

See, this is what I'm getting it. The trinity is not shared by all Christians, it is a doctrine that came around in the few hundred years after Jesus died and faced hundreds years more of resistance. Lots of current sects don't accept it. It doesn't make sense for an outsider to say that you have to believe in the trinity to be a "real christian".

I'm not ignoring the rest of what you said, but I think as with most things, there are some clear-cut cases where someone actually could be obviously not a Christian. For instance, if someone claimed to be a Christian and didn't even believe Jesus was the Messiah, how could that not be a fake Christian?

I can't give a straight answer about how they have to see Jesus (it would require a very long and not useful discussion), but he definitely has to be central to their view. If he's just a footnote then I wouldn't call them a christian. Also, they're straight up lying about it then of course they don't count. Same if they try to bastardize the definition to some ridiculous level like "a christian is someone who thinks the sky is blue. I think the sky is blue, therefore I'm a christian". These extreme cases aren't really what we're talking about though.

The scientific method is pretty simple to get, but it does require people to take fat Ls if the results come up poor. A lot of the Fucking Love Science people can't do that since being wrong makes brain meat feel bad.

As to christians and what makes them? I tend to believe that Jovos count despite their weird revisionism, but Mormons do not. Why that? Because the Book of Mormon and the way Joseph Smith kind of became a new prophet. It's Christian-Adjacent, but I see it as too seperated. Similar to how I view the Druze religion to be a split-off of Islam due to its very different doctrines.

I think this is reasonable, but Christian-adjacent still holds a lot of practical relevance to understanding Christianity and the world.