Dragon Ball Thread - RIP Akira Toriyama

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LORD IMPERATOR said:
The way I see it, the DBS: Broly movie was a love-letter to the fans who felt that Dragon Ball Super had strayed too far from what DBZ offered.
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Super sucked because it was nothing but fights with very little thought behind them nor any of the toriyama world building seen in the manga. None of the new villains had anything going for them at all, even the androids stealing a truck was more captivating than anything Zamas said.
LUNEKO said:
the number of sales started to drop really hard during the Moro saga.
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I remember people bitching as soon as the first tournament arc hit, and it only got worse from there. Sales would have fallen off a cliff during the Moro arc even if it was as good as the Red Ribbon saga by virtue of the anime going off the air.
 
That final arc was just too many new damn characters to keep track of or care about.
Honestly, this "multiverse" concept is the laziest thing ever. It's plaguing everything now. Introducing multiverses either means a franchise is completely creatively bankrupt or broken.
 
RX-78 said:
Super sucked because it was nothing but fights with very little thought behind them nor any of the toriyama world building seen in the manga. None of the new villains had anything going for them at all, even the androids stealing a truck was more captivating than anything Zamas said.
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While I preferred the earlier arcs of DBZ to the earlier arcs of Super (Saiyan/Namek/Freeza Saga is the Star Wars of shonen anime, and the Android Saga was still good in its own way) I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I liked the later arcs of Super over the later arcs of DBZ. While the early arcs of Super were kind of lazy (Beerus didn't really strike me as that much of a threat, since he can easily be bribed with good food, and Freeza returning wasn't as suspenseful as Freeza on Namek since we've got god-mode assistants who would obviously not let their beloved gourmet planet bite the dust) the later arcs of DBZ also had me spinning in circles, while the latter arcs of Super, namely the Tournament of Power and the Goku Black arc, was more entertaining than the tail end of DBZ. At least, to my tastes. I can't speak for everyone.

By the time Cell threatened to blow up the Earth, it was getting old. Both Freeza and Vegeta already tried that, and they had better reasons for it. Vegeta was frustrated with not being able to beat Goku man-to-man, and Freeza was in it for revenge due to what happened on Namek. Cell just wanted to blow up the Earth for shits and giggles, instead of pulling a King Piccolo and turning society upside down, (hey, he's an evil clone that has some of Piccolo's DNA) or leading the remnants of the Red Ribbon Army to victory over Earth's scattered defenses. Heck, since he's a clone of Freeza, I was expecting Cell to seize control of Freeza's empire and rule the galaxy, instead of just holding a tournament to provoke Goku.

As a kid, I couldn't understand how a bunch of half-man, half-toasters made by some bum army Goku annihilated as a kid can make something that can stand up to a Super-Saiyan when Freeza, a galactic emperor augmented with sci-fi tech, possessing enough power to wipe out whole worlds, couldn't. Cell, I can understand, he's a clone, the other androids, not so much, especially since the worst they did is just bum-level terrorism below King Piccolo's level, while Super Saiyans fought guys that can blow up planets for shits and giggles.

Then the Buu saga hit, and despite all the good it had, from SSJ3, the comedy, and all the fun action fights, it wasn't really that enthralling when the bad guy is just a pink bubblegum demon who regenerates and absorbs people-something Cell already did. It was just dragging out to the point where I got tired of it. And again, he was threatening to blow up the planet, which was something already tried by three other villains, and he only succeeds because of BS regeneration and the heroes dropping the ball like idiots.

Zamasu was more intriguing to me, since his desire to wipe out humanity stems from a logical flaw in his mind, and he started off as a good person who slowly transformed into a misguided zealot. Many mortal races in the DB Multiverse have a lot of bad guys who can pretty much prove Zamasu's theory of mortals having plenty of evil, especially when you look at the series' previous factions, where you had the Red Ribbon Army, the Saiyans, and the many races who joined the Freeza Force. Even the supposed "good" empire of Frost in Universe 6 was just one big fat land-grabber scam, at least in the anime. Hell, Jiren's backstory and the fact that he and his Pride Troopers have to go around protecting their universe is a good indication that there's a shit ton of evil in his universe, too.

Zamasu didn't go full zealot against mortals until Goku beat the shit out of him, and from then on in, the mortals who were once just mere pests in Zamasu's mind became a legitimate threat. Not only were they capable of great evil against each other, but they can also strike down the gods and wield their power. We see that Zamasu wasn't fully evil yet, since when he kills that dinosaur-barbarian who tried to off Gowasu, he was genuinely mortified, but he slowly turns evil due to the doubts and fears eating away at his mind, which is more believable than two cyborg orphans terrorizing the world as irredeemable shitstains despite the fact that they killed the doctor who tried to control them as weapons of mass destruction.

Not to mention that Goku Black was a far more enigmatic foe than anyone from DBZ. He's what Turles should have been; someone who can fight at the same level as Goku, but better, motivated by a principled sort of hate that a godlike enemy would naturally have for those he deems to be below him. Also, the fact that he never lost outside of his first bout with Goku made him cooler than the other DB villains who would utterly get wrecked the moment Goku or Gohan got serious.

That, and the Tournament of Power had enemies that weren't just motivated by "FUCK YOU, I WANT TO BLOW UP YOUR PLANET!" They're actually motivated by saving their universe and doing their best, which was more compelling than Buu near the end wanting to blow up the Earth. Not to mention that unlike the Buu saga, you had tons of enemies that had to be fought, so it wasn't just the same pink bubblegum punching bag that just keeps no-selling every attack because he has a BS regeneration factor that makes Cell look like a paraplegic grandma.

Of course, Universe 7 saving the other universes with their wish was the obvious endpoint of it, especially since this is still a superhero show, and superheroes have to be good and save the day so that the audience feels good about themselves. Yes, it's stupid, but capeshit as a whole is stupid, at least this version of capeshit was the fun kind of stupid.

So to me, an ideal DB show would have the same energy that the first three arcs of DBZ had, but it would also have the creativity that the Goku Black and the Tournament of Power arcs had.

Travoltron said:
That final arc was just too many new damn characters to keep track of or care about.
Honestly, this "multiverse" concept is the laziest thing ever. It's plaguing everything now. Introducing multiverses either means a franchise is completely creatively bankrupt or broken.
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Welcome to capeshit. Honestly, I'm surprised it took Dragonball this long to introduce that concept, when other superhero and sci-fi series had it a long time ago.
 
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@LORD IMPERATOR: What you said about the ToP reminded me I really wanted Jiren to win it. You know the guy they'd built up as the guy that was justice incarnate but would throw that all away for his one wish. I wanted someone that wanted the wish for completely selfish reasons to get it but the ToP had changed them so they wish everyone back.
 
6MillionCoofs said:
@LORD IMPERATOR: What you said about the ToP reminded me I really wanted Jiren to win it. You know the guy they'd built up as the guy that was justice incarnate but would throw that all away for his one wish. I wanted someone that wanted the wish for completely selfish reasons to get it but the ToP had changed them so they wish everyone back.
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Again, this is still the superhero genre. The good guys have to win. And since Beerus winning in BoG didn't really become that popular with the fans, of course they're going to have Universe 7 win, because they're the heroes that the fans have been following. Of course, Android 17 winning was a cute twist, but we all know Goku's team would win in the end. But it was still fun getting there.

Although for my tastes, I'd have it so that Zeno wasn't actually erasing universes, just teleporting people back to their universes while jamming communications, and he teleports everyone back once the fighting is over. The tournament would just have been a competition to determine which team gets to be Zeno's vanguard against a new threat that's eating up the "good" universes that didn't participate in the tournament. They didn't send their men in, because their men are busy holding back some kind of new threat.

But that would be too complicated, so they decided instead to have it be the happy ending and the real test being whether or not the winner would revive the losers.
 
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starborn427614 said:
Seems like some shit is going down in the manga. The highlights:

>That namekian dude gets shot
>Goku and Vegeta try one last time to beat Gas, fail
>Freeza shows up and one shots Gas
>FREEZA NOIR IS BORN
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I was expecting him when the spoiler of the elderly Namekian was killed lik Dende. Didn't expect him to come in, kick ass and leave.
 
starborn427614 said:
Seems like some shit is going down in the manga. The highlights:

>That namekian dude gets shot
>Goku and Vegeta try one last time to beat Gas, fail
>Freeza shows up and one shots Gas
>FREEZA NOIR IS BORN
Click to expand...
DING-DONG THE WALRUS IS DEAD
WHICH OLD WALRUS
THE ONE WHO KILLED ALL MOMENTUM
Freeza becoming boss nigger once more is 100000% a response to fans complaining that cereal and walrus were boring as hell and no one will ever convince me otherwise
 
starborn427614 said:
Seems like some shit is going down in the manga. The highlights:

>That namekian dude gets shot
>Goku and Vegeta try one last time to beat Gas, fail
>Freeza shows up and one shots Gas
>FREEZA NOIR IS BORN
Click to expand...
My fucking god can this arc END ALREADY!?
As it stands with giganigga freezer being the true final boss it just means Gas was literal filler which just invalidates like half of the fucking arc
 
@LORD IMPERATOR
As a kid, I couldn't understand how a bunch of half-man, half-toasters made by some bum army Goku annihilated as a kid can make something that can stand up to a Super-Saiyan when Freeza, a galactic emperor augmented with sci-fi tech, possessing enough power to wipe out whole worlds, couldn't.
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Dragon Ball takes place in a world with technology that can compact an entire building into a little capsules that can be carried around in your pocket. The mass to energy conversion for that alone fucks physics over harder than Vegeta's hairline. So the Androids being able to match a Super Saiyan doesn't seem that outlandish. Not to mention throughout DBZ Toriyama made it clear that having a bigger number doesn't mean you'll win the fight. 18 won against Vegeta by wearing him down, not by punching harder.
starborn427614 said:
Seems like some shit is going down in the manga. The highlights:

>That namekian dude gets shot
>Goku and Vegeta try one last time to beat Gas, fail
>Freeza shows up and one shots Gas
>FREEZA NOIR IS BORN
Click to expand...
Please god no...
 
Fluoxetine Man said:
Dragon Ball takes place in a world with technology that can compact an entire building into a little capsules that can be carried around in your pocket. The mass to energy conversion for that alone fucks physics over harder than Vegeta's hairline. So the Androids being able to match a Super Saiyan doesn't seem that outlandish. Not to mention throughout DBZ Toriyama made it clear that having a bigger number doesn't mean you'll win the fight. 18 won against Vegeta by wearing him down, not by punching harder.
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Then how come Freeza's robotic implants didn't make him stronger? You'd think making a cyborg out of an evil space emperor who could already blow up planets would make for a stronger final product than some random human teenagers who were kidnapped off the street.

I mean, shit, why didn't they scan 18's cybernetics and have Bulma install the same tech in Tien, Yamcha, Krillin, Videl, Roshi, and Chiaotzu? At that point you'd get some pretty powerful androids, since if this tech turned a bunch of runaways into a match for a Super Saiyan, imagine what it can do for someone who can already fight at the same level that a standard Saiyan could. You'd get guys that can probably pancake Majin Buu or even fuckin Zamasu. Hell, Android Tien whooping present Zamasu's ass would be a great way to show the human fighters can still be important. And you can't tell me that Android Yamcha with an energy-powered Wolf Fang Fist wouldn't be cool.

Shit, give Mr. Satan those cybernetics, and he can be the hero he pretends to be.

RX-78 said:
DING-DONG THE WALRUS IS DEAD
WHICH OLD WALRUS
THE ONE WHO KILLED ALL MOMENTUM
Freeza becoming boss nigger once more is 100000% a response to fans complaining that cereal and walrus were boring as hell and no one will ever convince me otherwise
Click to expand...
LUNEKO said:
My fucking god can this arc END ALREADY!?
As it stands with giganigga freezer being the true final boss it just means Gas was literal filler which just invalidates like half of the fucking arc
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I'm pretty sure the manga is just going around in circles at this point. None of it is canon to Toriyama's work anyways, so who the fuck cares?


It just seems like they're throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. Which is exactly how we got the Android and Buu Sagas.
 
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