Do supernatural beings exist? - Like ghosts and genies and giants.

[Vibe_Guy]

I have a supernatural ghost story from a family member. He was a kid so he might be imagining things, but to this day he believes what he saw/imagined

Spoiler: ghost story

In orthodox religion, it is believed a human soul roams the earth for 40 days. His neighbor who he knew from passing by her house has died of some illness, two weeks after the funeral step dad and his bro we're walking home from hanging out with friends. As they walked down the street they heard bushes rustling as if somebody was moving trough them, after which the wooden gate creaked and a loud thump was heard as if somebody jumped over.
Now this part is what I find really unbelievable, but I'll tell it anyway, he allegedly saw grass moving as if somebody was walking towards the house, then he heard the door rattling, after which they freaked out and ran home. Tomorrow the priest told them the 40 days story and he still believes it.

Tl;dr- in orthodoxy it's believed your soul roams for 40 days, my family member allegedly saw one of those roaming souls.

Answer to title: I really don't know, but so far I didn't experience anything supernatural.

 

[Spider Princess Fan]

One of my best friends back from the school years told me his story: once during night he woke up, hearing a familiar voice, he was a bit confused for a second before recognizing it as the voice of his dead grandfather, by his words he then got out of his bed and saw a faint image of his grandpa in the opposite end of the room, by description he was semitransparent and was faintly blue in color, he reached out with both of his hands and called for my friend, which spooked him so much that he jumped back into bed and didn't move a muscle until morning, he always expressed extreme attachment to his grandfather and missed him very much, so I feel there is a bit of bias in his story, personally I always assumed that he just had a dream and because it was a very dear person to him it felt real.
I never had any supernatural experience myself to believe that it exist.

 

[SentinentCloud]

I know a lot of tales of weird beings in the woods.

One in particular was very interesting, a person close to my family once described seeing hallucinations, under a state of severe fever, of what he described as a "big slug with the face of a man" in his backyard. The weird part is, his neighbors did confirm hearing some strange noises coming from his house, and they actually found some weird traces of strange slime all over trampled grass.

 

[Wyzzerd]

My life would be so much easier if the supernatural wasn't real. I could spend my weekends relaxing instead of cleaning goblin fluids out of my robes. They make such a mess when you have to forcibly remove them from the local cave....

 

[Shartavius]

Well, since you asked, the biggest one is that quite simply the physical universe can't account for its own existence. It's a finite thing. That means almost by definition that it's contingent on something else. Whatever that thing is, it can't be part of nature, or it would be subject to those same limitations. (Unless you define "nature" as "anything that exists", but that's sort of silly. In this case I'm using "nature" as "things that are subject to the laws of physics".)

Also, things like visions, spirits, and miraculous healings are known to pretty much every society except ours. Sure, a lot of them probably have a more mundane explanation, but enough of them are much harder to explain that I can't write them off.

That's the tricky thing about being a naturalist. You can't be wrong even once.

"Things like visions, spirits, and miraculous healings" seem (to me) insufficient cause to redefine the common, functional definitions of "universe" and "nature" to exclude things which exist. If I follow, you're defining "supernatural" as "existing things which are not subject to the laws of physics." Yet your awareness of your examples suggests they're subject to physical laws to the extent that people are presumably able to perceive them - Are our perceptions of presumably existing phenomena not subject to laws of physics? Is there a forgone premise that our conscious experiences are made of something finer than meat?

Though I appreciate your taking the time, I'm not seeing an argument more compelling than the god of gaps/Cosmic Squatch Fart. I don't know that "the physical universe cannot account for its own existence" means anything. What is the measure of accountability, in this case?

 

[Lord of the Large Pants]

"Things like visions, spirits, and miraculous healings" seem (to me) insufficient cause to redefine the common, functional definitions of "universe" and "nature" to exclude things which exist. If I follow, you're defining "supernatural" as "existing things which are not subject to the laws of physics." Yet your awareness of your examples suggests they're subject to physical laws to the extent that people are presumably able to perceive them - Are our perceptions of presumably existing phenomena not subject to laws of physics? Is there a forgone premise that our conscious experiences are made of something finer than meat?

Though I appreciate your taking the time, I'm not seeing an argument more compelling than the god of gaps/Cosmic Squatch Fart. I don't know that "the physical universe cannot account for its own existence" means anything. What is the measure of accountability, in this case?

In certain cases, supernatural events and agents make an impact on the physical world. Does that make them part of nature? That's probably a question of definitions. What I'd emphasize is that, if things like that happen, something else from somewhere else is breaking what "should" be a closed chain of cause and effect. If things like that happen, I'd say in that sense they're not part of nature, even if they have an effect on it. The "supernatural" may have its own laws, but not OUR laws.

I think it's fairly self evident that consciousness is something non-physical. It may be exclusively generated by the brain (I'm not sure that it is, but just supposing), but that doesn't get you out of the problem. The experience of being conscious is something of a different quality, not just a different quantity. Now I'm not proposing something like a Cartesian soul. I have absolutely not the slightest idea what consciousness actually IS, and I've checked. But it's not physical, and it seemingly has causal power in the physical world, which is very strange. In that limited sense, I'd say it's not something entirely "natural". I'd go even further and say that you should be far more sure of your consciousness than you are of atoms and molecules, because all knowledge of those things come to you through your consciousness. If the model can't accommodate this, maybe it's time for a new model.

The universe can't account for its own existence means that the universe is a finite thing. That thing might not be God necessarily (although I happen to think it is). It might be something like the Dao. It might be some sort of previous state of existence where cause and effect have no meaning, where clocks run backwards, cats eat dogs, and Adam Sandler is funny. What it cannot be is that the universe as we know it just happens to exist. It may be that the physicists are right, and the big bang started from quantum fluctuations. Well, okay. Why those laws of physics, and not another? Why quantum "stuff", which is no less real than rocks or stars or chairs? Why anything? Why not nothing? The physical universe is finite, and finite things are dependent on other things. Either it's turtles all the way down, or the buck stops somewhere. If the buck does stop, it must stop at something that CAN account for its own existence. The only thing like that would be something that not only exists, but exists NECESSARILY. And that might be God, or the Dao, or some bizarre form of primordial potential. But it's not the universe as we know it.

 

[Shartavius]

I had a big thing typed up in which I tried replying to your assertions and conjectures nearly line-by-line - But summarizing it in an illustration is more fun/concise:



It seems like your personal presumptions and presuppositions to do with how the universe "should" exist or function doesn't tolerate certain functional definitions - Which you insist speaks to the necessity of replacing the model of science itself, rather than your own. The problem we keep returning to is that "universe" and "nature" are inclusive terms; existing specifically to encompass everything - now or ever. If the boundaries of the universe were discovered to be larger or more alien than previously inferred or observed, the new information would simply be incorporated into our current understanding; and "universe" would then additionally include that. "Universe", "world", "nature", "earth," "land" - These words all previously described fewer things.

The model expands by assuming the least of the universe, and works outward by incorporating new information as it is discovered or inferred - Even if previously held conceits or previously workable models have to be revised or discarded for the new info to be incorporated. It doesn't work backwards from presumptions of deism or other ontological ideals - Your fart is considered only once smelled.

 

[Overwritten Tapes]

I do.

I dont expect anyone to agree, however I've experienced some things that cannot be explained. And the likelyhood of multiple strange things happening in short spaces of time, constantly to me and my close friends, and we were each other's witnesses.

 

[Nick Obre]

No you goddamn retards

 

[Fek]

I do.

I dont expect anyone to agree, however I've experienced some things that cannot be explained. And the likelyhood of multiple strange things happening in short spaces of time, constantly to me and my close friends, and we were each other's witnesses.

I'm ready for a story. Are you willing to share the anon version(s)?

 

[Overwritten Tapes]

I'm ready for a story. Are you willing to share the anon version(s)?

They usually involved drugs lol

 

[The Lawgiver]

I do believe there is/was some variant of shit out there but it's actually something that'd be easily explainable if it weren't so rarely observed. It 100% does not fucking operate by a lot of the "rules" people on social media make up though. Any shit about bullshit like "opening invisible portals" is absolutely retarded shit because it's always tied to shit like the ouija board by MILTON FUCKING BRADLEY.

Ghosts don't exist.

I saw like 2 ghosts in my life and both were as a kid and real as fuck. Only one fucking scared me and it was due to it looking like my mom who IIRC was like downstairs or something when I saw it show up in my room.

semitransparent and was faintly blue in color

Basically looked like this but weird parental doppleganger wringing it's hands and staring at me till i yelled for my actual parents at which point it noped the fuck out and I never saw it again.

 

[Anne Hathaway Fan]

I saw like 2 ghosts in my life and both were as a kid

I just want to point out that you were a child when you saw them and that's my point entirely. That's the only time we think we see scary things like ghosts and shit (unless we do meth as adults and but that's a whole nother story for a whole nother post)

The only way the ghost could exist would be if there was an afterlife which means there is a God. Religious dogma states that immediately after dying your soul is brought to judgement, so the idea that a ghost would just be wandering around aimlessly would be a mistake by God. Which would erase the universe, like the plot of that movie dogma. So no, no ghosts. You had an overactive imagination.

Also why would it be afraid of your parents? Was it the kind of ghost that if more than one person saw it at once it would die? You don't think it could have easily murdered your parents as quickly as it could have killed you? If it really was a ghost whose intentions weren't nefarious don't you think it would want as many people as it could to see it so it could get on with its unfinished business or whatever? Ghost never make fucking SENSE in people's stories.

 

[The Lawgiver]

I just want to point out that you were a child when you saw them and that's my point entirely. That's the only time we think we see scary things like ghosts and shit (unless we do meth as adults and but that's a whole nother story for a whole nother post)

I didn't just "think" I saw the things I did and I've seen weird stuff since then without any kind of mental or drug related shit involved. Straight up in your face ghost encounters were extremely rare one time encounters. I didn't fucking "imagine" shit, A blue glowing person in my fucking room that actually lit it up slightly isn't really something that can just be "imagined" up.

Also why would it be afraid of your parents? Was it the kind of ghost that if more than one person saw it at once it would die? You don't think it could have easily murdered your parents as quickly as it could have killed you? If it really was a ghost whose intentions weren't nefarious don't you think it would want as many people as it could to see it so it could get on with its unfinished business or whatever? Ghost never make fucking SENSE in people's stories.

Why the fuck would murder be in the equation? I don't know what the fuck it wanted it was just kinda staring at me. House was a newly built one so there's literally no reason for "unfinished business" type paranormal stuff to be occurring there. Sometimes you just run into some fucking weird shit in life. You're adding reddit ass extraneous shit to try and act like me saying I saw some weird shit once "makes no sense". Sometimes a weird transparent blue person is just a weird transparent blue person.

 

[Anne Hathaway Fan]

I didn't just "think" I saw the things I did and I've seen weird stuff since then without any kind of mental or drug related shit involved. Straight up in your face ghost encounters were extremely rare one time encounters. I didn't fucking "imagine" shit, A blue glowing person in my fucking room that actually lit it up slightly isn't really something that can just be "imagined" up.

Why the fuck would murder be in the equation? I don't know what the fuck it wanted it was just kinda staring at me. House was a newly built one so there's literally no reason for "unfinished business" type paranormal stuff to be occurring there. Sometimes you just run into some fucking weird shit in life. You're adding reddit ass extraneous shit to try and act like me saying I saw some weird shit once "makes no sense". Sometimes a weird transparent blue person is just a weird transparent blue person.

Okay well if you want to get testy about it I could just call you a liar which is what I was thinking and add no nuances to it so you could backpedal gracefully.

Ghost don't exist, you were a dumb kid who probably stayed up for too long and thought you saw something scary so you called Mommy and Daddy and it magically disappeared.

Happens to literally all of us. The only difference is we don't hold onto it for 20 years and act like we had some kind of "paranormal experience" to punch up the resume of our shitty lives.

 

[The Lawgiver]

Okay well if you want to get testy about it I could just call you a liar which is what I was thinking and add no nuances to it so you could backpedal gracefully.

Ghost don't exist, you were a dumb kid who probably stayed up for too long and thought you saw something scary so you called Mommy and Daddy and it magically disappeared.

Happens to literally all of us. The only difference is we don't hold onto it for 20 years and act like we had some kind of "paranormal experience" to punch up the resume of our shitty lives.

Not lying, I also have no clue how the fuck seeing a single kinda menacing blue glowy person "punches up" the resume of my life.
You seem very angry about the potential existence of some random glow in the dark spook, though.

 

[Anne Hathaway Fan]

Not lying,

Whatever you say. I'm 100% sure that you saw a glowing blue guy wringing his hands menacingly when you were a child right before you went to bed and it disappeared without warning when your parents came into the bedroom. That tracks. It was 100% NOT a child's imagination.

I also have no clue how the fuck seeing a single kinda menacing blue glowy person "punches up" the resume of my life.

Everyone who's had a "paranormal experience" always tries to sell that story at some kind of party because they think it interesting. If you don't do that, I apologize for jumping the gun and assuming you did.

You seem very angry about the potential existence of some random glow in the dark spook, though.

I have two responses to this:
#1 you came at me a little bit testy and angrily so you get back what you give. "Respect esé, you got to give it to get it" - Tuco Salamanca

And also #2 I'm American Irish so the existence of any kind of spook enrages me. I hate those God damned glow in the dark niggers

 

[goodbudweiser]

I believe in spirits/ghosts because I swear my great grandmother visited me twice (was not on drugs)[though was sleepy/asleep].
When I was younger I swear a shadow person visited me. I think "he" had a top hat. There is a slight chance that could've been my great grandfather but I never "remembered" him.
The one time I did do LSD I didn't even "see" anything (I probably didn't take enough).
I would also argue some people can be demons because I can't really explain why else pedophiles exist.
I also believe there could be life in our universe but it's not "organic"/"fleshy" but metallic/robotic.

 

[The Lawgiver]

I also believe there could be life in our universe but it's not "organic"/"fleshy" but metallic/robotic.

Do they turn into cars and toasters?

 

[Carmen The Aids Rabbit]

One can dream. Imagine furfags getting mauled to death because they went looking for that "wendussy", that would be the funniest shit ever