Disney General - The saddest fandom on Earth

[StarkRavingMad]

Admittedly, I am one of those people who doesn't think that Hercules is a good movie. It's all in the writing, really. The animation and style are, indeed, very awesome ... And I also think that James Woods is awesome as Hades. And I'd be a straight-up liar if I said that "I Won't Say I'm in Love" wasn't an absolute bop. I just don't think the story is all there. It was one of those movies that I liked well enough as a kid, and I unfortunately like it even less as an adult.

As for Hunchback, I think that half of that movie is brilliant, and that the other half is garbage. Disney should have just committed to the dark tone; those stupid gargoyles really ruin the film for me. Hunchback is one of the most frustrating Disney movies because I really do believe that Disney could have produced a masterpiece with it. The "Hellfire" sequence? May be one of the greatest Disney moments of all time. The "Guy Like You" sequence? Cringe-inducing. Ughhh what wasted potential.

And as for Pocahontas ... Aside from some of the songs and the pretty animation, the movie is trash. The plot is laughable, and the characters are an absolute flatline. That said, I'd watch it over something like Wreck-It-Ralph 2 I guess ...

When it comes to the latter half of the Disney Renaissance, my favorite is Mulan, closely followed by Tarzan. Mulan is ... Well ... A classic if you ask me. And as for Tarzan, I remember not even bothering to see it in theaters because the trailers didn't impress me. I expected the movie to be trash. Then, my parents bought it on DVD along with Mulan (the first DVDs I remember my family owning btw), and then I was very pleasantly surprised. Tarzan isn't perfect (some of the comedy falls flat to me, but luckily it's pretty limited compared to Hunchback), but there's a lot that I still love about it 20-something years later.

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

Out of the Disney Renaissance, the one I keep going back to is Hercule's. Even with it's problems it just works for me and I really love how at the time it stood out art wise from the rest of the films. Post Renaissance has got to be Lilo and Stitch. That's a movie that made me fell in love with hawaii and Chris Sanders is probably one of my favorite disney artist's.

Admittedly, I am one of those people who doesn't think that Hercules is a good movie. It's all in the writing, really. The animation and style are, indeed, very awesome ... And I also think that James Woods is awesome as Hades. And I'd be a straight-up liar if I said that "I Won't Say I'm in Love" wasn't an absolute bop. I just don't think the story is all there. It was one of those movies that I liked well enough as a kid, and I unfortunately like it even less as an adult.

As for Hunchback, I think that half of that movie is brilliant, and that the other half is garbage. Disney should have just committed to the dark tone; those stupid gargoyles really ruin the film for me. Hunchback is one of the most frustrating Disney movies because I really do believe that Disney could have produced a masterpiece with it. The "Hellfire" sequence? May be one of the greatest Disney moments of all time. The "Guy Like You" sequence? Cringe-inducing. Ughhh what wasted potential.

And as for Pocahontas ... Aside from some of the songs and the pretty animation, the movie is trash. The plot is laughable, and the characters are an absolute flatline. That said, I'd watch it over something like Wreck-It-Ralph 2 I guess ...

When it comes to the latter half of the Disney Renaissance, my favorite is Mulan, closely followed by Tarzan. Mulan is ... Well ... A classic if you ask me. And as for Tarzan, I remember not even bothering to see it in theaters because the trailers didn't impress me. I expected the movie to be trash. Then, my parents bought it on DVD along with Mulan (the first DVDs I remember my family owning btw), and then I was very pleasantly surprised. Tarzan isn't perfect (some of the comedy falls flat to me, but luckily it's pretty limited compared to Hunchback), but there's a lot that I still love about it 20-something years later.

Hercules is sort of a guilty pleasure for me......yeah, the mythology is mutilated to hell and back, but the soundtrack is a bop, some of the jokes land really well (particularly Hades' jokes) and it's one of the Disney movies that I grew up with the most.

Agree on Hunchback - if they had just made the gargoyles part of Quasi's imagination, and kept them out of the final battle entirely, it could've been one of Disney's all time best - instead, it's like you said, it's half that, and half garbage.

Haven't seen Pocahontas in full, but the parts I have seen are more than enough for me to agree with you in that it's trash.

Definitely agree with Mulan being the best of the latter Renaissance, with Tarzan a close second. And definitely agree with L&S being the best post-Renaissance movie (if not my favorite Disney movie ever), for reasons I already outlined in the Unpopular Western Animation Opinions thread:

Fixed that for ya, bud. Seriously, most of what you said about Atlantis could also apply to L&S, if not more so. Great animation style? Check (THOSE WATERCOLORS THO). A plot that has shades of darkness and top-notch characterization? Check. Unique characters that totally break the stereotypes of western animation?

Let's see - we have...

Lilo Pelekai - One of the best written child characters in not only animation, but also all of fiction. She can be nice and sweet sometimes, and at other times she can be annoying, mischievous, cocky and/or selfish. Just like a real kid.

Nani Pelekai - Not only one of the most realistic-LOOKING women in the Disney canon, but the most realistic in her behavior as well. She doesn't always gets things right, and is obviously overwhelmed by her now having to take care of Lilo after their parents died, but she will do everything in her power to protect her younger sister. She shows that she's overwhelmed by squabbling with her sister semi-regularly - again, like real siblings do - but she's not afraid to have fun either, as seen in the Hawaiian Roller-Coaster Ride sequence.

Stitch/Experiment 626 - OK, seriously, how many Disney - nay, how many KIDS' movies have you seen that has A LIVING, BREATHING WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION as A MAIN PROTAGONIST? WHO TURNS GOOD BY THE END?! AND IT'S COMPLETLY JUSTIFIED?! None, except this one (and the Iron Giant, which is another great animated movie, but we're not talking about that one).

Jumba and Pleakley - The mad scientist guy who created Stitch and the high-strung galactic expert on Earth who tags along with him to retrieve Stitch, respectively. Great comedic duo to watch bumble around as they try to catch Stitch and help save the day at the climax. AND NO, THEY'RE NOT GAY, TWITTER, STOP PROJECTING YOUR FANTASIES ONTO ANIMATED CHARACTERS PLEASE. (Watch the remake actually make them gay, though.... )

And last but certainly not least:

David Kawena - Nani's on-again, off-again boyfriend. Just an all-around nice guy. He helps save Lilo & Stitch when they run into trouble surfing, helps Nani find a job when she desperately needs it most, and makes two trips to bring everybody back to the mainland. (Watch as they either dumb him down, or completely excise him from the remake, because NANI IZ STRONK INDEPENDENT WAHMAN WHO DON'T NEED NO MAN!!111!!! )

Now, I see your point about Atlantis having sympathetic antagonists, and I raise you the fact that L&S has NO antagonists.

Cobra Bubbles - The social worker taking on Lilo's case. Chris Sanders and Dean DeBlois could've taken the easy way out and made an outright bad guy (like a lesser Disney flick would've done), but they didn't. Instead, they made him into a person who absolutely does not want to take Lilo away from Nani, but, if he feels it's best for Lilo - a line he says verbatim - he will. Not because he's evil, but because he's a guy doing his job.

Captain Gantu - Again, just a guy doing his job. When he captures Stitch (and accidentally Lilo) during the climax of the movie, for all Gantu knows, Stitch is still the destructive and nasty little asshole at the beginning of the movie, instead of the changed "cute and fluffy" family member he's become. Thus, Gantu thinks he's doing a service by locking that "little abomination" away for good.

If you couldn't already tell, I fucking love this movie, and what Disney did to it through the TV show and Asian spinoffs will forever be a dark, dark stain among the many in the Rat's dirty clothes. I dread the live-action remake.....

 

[EmpireOfTheClouds]

Admittedly, I am one of those people who doesn't think that Hercules is a good movie. It's all in the writing, really. The animation and style are, indeed, very awesome ... And I also think that James Woods is awesome as Hades. And I'd be a straight-up liar if I said that "I Won't Say I'm in Love" wasn't an absolute bop. I just don't think the story is all there. It was one of those movies that I liked well enough as a kid, and I unfortunately like it even less as an adult.

As for Hunchback, I think that half of that movie is brilliant, and that the other half is garbage. Disney should have just committed to the dark tone; those stupid gargoyles really ruin the film for me. Hunchback is one of the most frustrating Disney movies because I really do believe that Disney could have produced a masterpiece with it. The "Hellfire" sequence? May be one of the greatest Disney moments of all time. The "Guy Like You" sequence? Cringe-inducing. Ughhh what wasted potential.

And as for Pocahontas ... Aside from some of the songs and the pretty animation, the movie is trash. The plot is laughable, and the characters are an absolute flatline. That said, I'd watch it over something like Wreck-It-Ralph 2 I guess ...

When it comes to the latter half of the Disney Renaissance, my favorite is Mulan, closely followed by Tarzan. Mulan is ... Well ... A classic if you ask me. And as for Tarzan, I remember not even bothering to see it in theaters because the trailers didn't impress me. I expected the movie to be trash. Then, my parents bought it on DVD along with Mulan (the first DVDs I remember my family owning btw), and then I was very pleasantly surprised. Tarzan isn't perfect (some of the comedy falls flat to me, but luckily it's pretty limited compared to Hunchback), but there's a lot that I still love about it 20-something years later.

Hercules is a hot mess of a movie which is kinda why I love it. It also holds a special place in my heart as its the first Disney movie I remember seeing at the cinema.

 

[Muttnik]

Megara is a pretty cool love interest. She and Hades were honestly too good for the film. The rest is meh imo.

 

[Kari Kamiya]

Philoctetes was clearly written with Danny DeVito in mind, and in a sense, he makes the film for me next to James Woods. It's definitely a hot mess of a film, but I ain't mad about it and kinda wish I did grow up with the movie. I like the style of it and how it was created like it's a Las Vegas show, the Muses singing gospel music really ties it all together.

My friend grew up playing the PlayStation video game, which honestly looks fun. I think Tarzan also had a similarly-styled video game.

 

[Henry Bemis]

Hercules is sort of a guilty pleasure for me......yeah, the mythology is mutilated to hell and back, but the soundtrack is a bop,

Between Hercules and Mulan, it's fair to say that David Zippel is a criminally underemployed lyricist. At least, I think he's a worthier Alan Menken collaborator than, say, Glenn Slater.

 

[EmpireOfTheClouds]

Admittedly, I am one of those people who doesn't think that Hercules is a good movie. It's all in the writing, really. The animation and style are, indeed, very awesome ... And I also think that James Woods is awesome as Hades. And I'd be a straight-up liar if I said that "I Won't Say I'm in Love" wasn't an absolute bop. I just don't think the story is all there. It was one of those movies that I liked well enough as a kid, and I unfortunately like it even less as an adult.

As for Hunchback, I think that half of that movie is brilliant, and that the other half is garbage. Disney should have just committed to the dark tone; those stupid gargoyles really ruin the film for me. Hunchback is one of the most frustrating Disney movies because I really do believe that Disney could have produced a masterpiece with it. The "Hellfire" sequence? May be one of the greatest Disney moments of all time. The "Guy Like You" sequence? Cringe-inducing. Ughhh what wasted potential.

And as for Pocahontas ... Aside from some of the songs and the pretty animation, the movie is trash. The plot is laughable, and the characters are an absolute flatline. That said, I'd watch it over something like Wreck-It-Ralph 2 I guess ...

When it comes to the latter half of the Disney Renaissance, my favorite is Mulan, closely followed by Tarzan. Mulan is ... Well ... A classic if you ask me. And as for Tarzan, I remember not even bothering to see it in theaters because the trailers didn't impress me. I expected the movie to be trash. Then, my parents bought it on DVD along with Mulan (the first DVDs I remember my family owning btw), and then I was very pleasantly surprised. Tarzan isn't perfect (some of the comedy falls flat to me, but luckily it's pretty limited compared to Hunchback), but there's a lot that I still love about it 20-something years later.

Hellfire is a song that really needs its visuals to work. On its own it leaves the insanely stupid lyrics to drive it and it loses its power.

It's kind of like I Just Can't Wait to Be King in that regard. Especially in the remake where we get no visual spectacle and just have lions running around.

 

[protomartyr]

https://twitter.com/neumaverick/status/1345886414987173888?s=21

Imagine being employed to dress up as Stitch and kiss corpses.

Magical Passings - Disney Funerals - bringing the magical experience to end of life services.

Create a unique Disney funeral and capture the magic of their life. We specialize in Disney themed end of life experiences for you and your loved ones.

magicalpassings.com

This news update sounds in particularly poor taste.

When the crypt door creaks and the tombstone quakes … those socializing specters can now be part of your Magical Passings package. The Haunted Ending add-on option features three actors performing the hitchhiking ghosts. The actors are trained acapella singers who will belt out melodies that you choose. There are also many additional options for the Haunted Ending package such as a crystal ball with a female spirit that plays a pre-recorded video message, a horseless carriage, and creepy mansion servants.​

I don’t watch enough mouse stuff to know what ghosts they’re talking about but I’m not sure it matters.

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

https://twitter.com/neumaverick/status/1345886414987173888?s=21

Imagine being employed to dress up as Stitch and kiss corpses.

Magical Passings - Disney Funerals - bringing the magical experience to end of life services.

Create a unique Disney funeral and capture the magic of their life. We specialize in Disney themed end of life experiences for you and your loved ones.

magicalpassings.com

This news update sounds in particularly poor taste.

​

When the crypt door creaks and the tombstone quakes … those socializing specters can now be part of your Magical Passings package. The Haunted Ending add-on option features three actors performing the hitchhiking ghosts. The actors are trained acapella singers who will belt out melodies that you choose. There are also many additional options for the Haunted Ending package such as a crystal ball with a female spirit that plays a pre-recorded video message, a horseless carriage, and creepy mansion servants.​

I don’t watch enough mouse stuff to know what ghosts they’re talking about but I’m not sure it matters.

They literally did exactly that for Jim Henson's funeral though:

Plus, if that's how the people in question really wanted to go out, who are we to judge? That's their decision.

 

[Xerxes IX]

I don’t watch enough mouse stuff to know what ghosts they’re talking about but I’m not sure it matters.

That package has to do with the Haunted Mansion ride which isn't that surprising tbh, Haunted Mansion fans seem particularly obsessed with Disney and some I can see being obsessed enough to want this for their funeral. Plus they have a constant issue with riders throwing their loved ones' ashes on the Haunted Mansion rides (and around the rest of the parks, but this is especially a problem in the Haunted Mansion)

 

[XYZpdq]

https://twitter.com/neumaverick/status/1345886414987173888?s=21

Imagine being employed to dress up as Stitch and kiss corpses.

Magical Passings - Disney Funerals - bringing the magical experience to end of life services.

Create a unique Disney funeral and capture the magic of their life. We specialize in Disney themed end of life experiences for you and your loved ones.

magicalpassings.com

This news update sounds in particularly poor taste.

​

When the crypt door creaks and the tombstone quakes … those socializing specters can now be part of your Magical Passings package. The Haunted Ending add-on option features three actors performing the hitchhiking ghosts. The actors are trained acapella singers who will belt out melodies that you choose. There are also many additional options for the Haunted Ending package such as a crystal ball with a female spirit that plays a pre-recorded video message, a horseless carriage, and creepy mansion servants.​

I don’t watch enough mouse stuff to know what ghosts they’re talking about but I’m not sure it matters.

"This site is meant as satirical and a parody site. No actual services are performed."

 

[MysticMisty]

Admittedly, I am one of those people who doesn't think that Hercules is a good movie. It's all in the writing, really. The animation and style are, indeed, very awesome ... And I also think that James Woods is awesome as Hades. And I'd be a straight-up liar if I said that "I Won't Say I'm in Love" wasn't an absolute bop. I just don't think the story is all there. It was one of those movies that I liked well enough as a kid, and I unfortunately like it even less as an adult.

You're not wrong in the least, but I'd rank it over Hunchback since it's consistent in tone. That and it looks and sounds better, but as you said, the writing in the end falls flat, which I find very unfortunate because there was a lot of potential going on with it.

As for Hunchback, I think that half of that movie is brilliant, and that the other half is garbage. Disney should have just committed to the dark tone; those stupid gargoyles really ruin the film for me. Hunchback is one of the most frustrating Disney movies because I really do believe that Disney could have produced a masterpiece with it. The "Hellfire" sequence? May be one of the greatest Disney moments of all time. The "Guy Like You" sequence? Cringe-inducing. Ughhh what wasted potential.

The stupid gargoyles are very jarring for what the tone is supposed to be (mainly) going for, and on top of that is that they're a terrible Timon and Pumbaa ripoff with a "bonus" third character. And I didn't like Timon and Pumbaa to begin with, although they play a small enough role in The Lion King that they don't ruin the movie for me. The Hunchback gargoyles though show up early, and often, and are less funny or amusing.

And as for Pocahontas ... Aside from some of the songs and the pretty animation, the movie is trash. The plot is laughable, and the characters are an absolute flatline. That said, I'd watch it over something like Wreck-It-Ralph 2 I guess ...

I wasn't that big of a fan of Pocahontas, but unfortunately my childhood best friend was a huge fan and wanted to watch it often at my house. It's also why I ended up with some merch, but not nearly as much compared to what I had for The Lion King. Anyways, my mom was actually surprised years later to find out I didn't really like it, even though I pretty much never rewatched it on my own.

When it comes to the latter half of the Disney Renaissance, my favorite is Mulan, closely followed by Tarzan.

Mulan is up in the ranks with Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, and The Lion King, but I never really cared much for Tarzan. It was...just okay. Better than what the trailers showed (the trailers were so bad for some reason), but not great. Mulan for me is really the only post-Lion King shining spot of the 90's (except for A Goofy Movie, but that's not part of the main animated canon and thus gets sadly excluded from the Renaissance) and really, I don't know why some people consider the entire 90's (minus Rescuers Down Under, which I consider to be a hidden gem) as part of the Renaissance. After the success of Beauty and the Beast everything that wasn't already well into production became a weirdly inbred attempt to recreate the wild success it (and later, Aladdin and TLK) had. Mulan is the one movie from then that went into production after TLK and didn't mostly attempt to ripoff anything from it's predecessors. The cricket being the exception but even the team didn't like having the cricket forced upon them. I think the only one who cared was the animator, and I think even he understood where the rest of the team was coming from.

And speaking of Mulan, the success from that led to the best movie of the 00's: Lilo and Stitch, which also did it's own thing, was also visually unique (due to the studio granting a very rare exception to use Chris Sander's art style instead of the usual house style), uniquely written, and with well-balanced and flawed characters. Sanders was the artist and creative mind the studio needed and deserved, and it's sad that he got the boot just because his art and writing (particularly the writing) are in a style John Lasseter personally disapproves of. Which fucking sucks because different points of views create varied works, which is not allowed. You can tell which post-Lasseter movies he had his mitts all over and which ones he didn't.

 

[cactus]

Wow, it's almost as if when Disney let's their creators do their own thing, they end up with great movies. Interesting...

 

[One Man Bland]

The irony here is that they were so focused on recreating everything that worked for Beauty and the Beast (and completely failing in the process) that The Lion King was completely ignored; it only existed as filler to bridge the gap between Aladdin and Pocahontas. This creative freedom led to a smash hit out of nowhere (for the execs completely focused on Pocahontas anyways) that is so long lasting that it led to a stage version that only stopped because of Corona. Whereas Pocahontas was only really talked about when it first came out and was already mostly forgotten about by the time it came out on VHS. And judging by the lack of special editions and anything else, the studio wants us to forget about it too.

Additional irony was that after The Lion King was a hit, the execs proceeded to not learn their lesson and tried to recreate TLK’s see,ing ly winning formula by pushing for more "reimaginings of classic stories led by animals" movies to go into production.

That’s how we got Brother Bear (originally pitched as King Lear With Bears), The Emporer’s New Groove (originally a Prince & the Pauper retelling with llamas) and I believe The Princess & the Frog.

 

[StarkRavingMad]

Speaking of The Emperor's New Groove ...

I don't care what anybody says: That movie still tickles me. Eartha Kitt was perfection in it. Change my mind.

 

[Steamboat_Bill]

Well, this is good news.

 

[Duncan Hills Coffee]

Speaking of The Emperor's New Groove ...

I don't care what anybody says: That movie still tickles me. Eartha Kitt was perfection in it. Change my mind.

I watched it again a couple years back, and even though I basically memorized the whole movie with how much I watched it as a kid, it was still a fun movie. It's become one of my favorites partially because it's so unique in the Disney canon and partially because it's such a clever and fun movie. Everyone is perfect in the movie; Patrick Warburton is amazing as Kronk, David Spade fits Kuzco like a glove, and John Goodman's an excellent straight man.

Well, this is good news.

I never had any opportunity to watch classic Muppets growing up, so this is a nice surprise.

 

[neverendingmidi]

Well, this is good news.

Soooo... how will this be butchered for modern audiences?

I kind of wanted to get the DVD collections, so I'd have a media that somebody couldn't come theough and retroactively edit, but they only released the first 3 seasons.

 

[Steamboat_Bill]

Soooo... how will this be butchered for modern audiences?

I kind of wanted to get the DVD collections, so I'd have a media that somebody couldn't come theough and retroactively edit, but they only released the first 3 seasons.

They'll cut out songs just like they did on the first season DVD.

Though the fact they're even doing this implies they negotiated all the music rights, which I thought they didn't want to do.

 

[KingofNothing]

Speaking of The Emperor's New Groove ...

I don't care what anybody says: That movie still tickles me. Eartha Kitt was perfection in it. Change my mind.

There might be better written Disney movies, but I'd be hardpressed to point to one that is consistently funnier than The Emperor's New Groove. It's a shame Kingdom of the Sun got trashed for it, but I think what we got is a pretty good trade.