💰 Grifter Devon Del Vecchio / "Dev" / ShortFatOtaku / @sleepy_devo - Degenerate loser, honorary whiteknight for Lilith Lovett, constantly at odds with his own viewers for being a centrist

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AWarmToiletSeat said:
Okay, what you say to that is, "That's too convenient an explanation for me to take at face value."
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Actually hold on I did do that by pointing out it was an argument from ignorance fallacy. The whole point of me catching him on it being an argument from ignorance fallacy was that he couldn't actually provide a counter-argument in favor of Dev and that he could only offer logical fallacies instead.
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Goddar said:
The issue wasn't to prove Whick's dishonesty or even to prove to him that Dev's standards are nonexistent. The point of the debate is to present the best argument for your side to convince the people who haven't made up their minds. And while filibustering with Grok might seem like a good idea, all it does is pull you down to his level and makes no one look reasonable or sensible here. Lie down with dogs, expect to get fleas, etc.

Whick even gave you the boomer rage moment later with the whole "MY TAXES PAY FOR THEIR SALARY THEY WORK FOR ME" but you could have gotten to that point by continually pushing back on the HIPAA claims without resorting to Grok, and the kill shot for him would have been for you to ask the question, "Do you think, as a liberal, paying someone's salary entitles you to invade their privacy?"
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That is a good point at the end there, it is a shame I didn't think of it. I would say that the use of Grok wasn't purely to filibuster him, it was also to show how AI would react to the matter and how biased he was being. AI isn't perfect, but it does have potential and I honestly think it can and should be used where appropriate. I also wasn't expecting the summaries it provided to be anywhere near as long as they were when read out.
 
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Goddar said:
The issue wasn't to prove Whick's dishonesty or even to prove to him that Dev's standards are nonexistent. The point of the debate is to present the best argument for your side to convince the people who haven't made up their minds. And while filibustering with Grok might seem like a good idea, all it does is pull you down to his level and makes no one look reasonable or sensible here. Lie down with dogs, expect to get fleas, etc.

Whick even gave you the boomer rage moment later with the whole "MY TAXES PAY FOR THEIR SALARY THEY WORK FOR ME" but you could have gotten to that point by continually pushing back on the HIPAA claims without resorting to Grok, and the kill shot for him would have been for you to ask the question, "Do you think, as a liberal, paying someone's salary entitles you to invade their privacy?"
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I though it made sense for Ace to use the first time as a counter to the "ugh, well, I just need more context" demands for more proof. All the proof was there, and Whick was refusing to engage with it. But he still claimed the appeal to ignorance falacy was bad faith. So just pulling up Grok and exhaustively reading all the context removes any excuse that he lacked the proper context to make a judgement on if Devs statements were taken out of context, or get away with pretending he didn't understand them. Reading the entire response was over long, though by that point it seemed like Ace was only focused on convincing the audience and had given up on Whick.

Now the other Grok usages and HIPPA point were kind of stupid. It's not only a weak point to begin with, given that most people don't even think about HIPPA in the context of law enforcement, since medical incident reports are usually given out like candy whenever someone dies by cop (it's just usually not the cop's). Ace just let Grok think for him at the end rather that use it as a strategic point like he was before. I think Ace should have stayed on the topic of Dev by bringing up something he said on one of WhickTV's previous streams so that he couldn't weasel out of it by claiming it's out of context and demand more evidence.
 
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Shut up retards, Ace won. Whick is a fucking pathetic cunt. How can you possibly take that mother-fucker in good faith? Ace didn't even freak out or end the debate prematurely like Whick did. Don't give any validation to the brain-rotting Dev-riding cunt.
 
So has he fucked Lilith Lovett yet or atleast made his long term GF dress up as the troon?
 
DEBIRU MAN said:
Wick is still streaming and Dev in the chat. I'm not seeing much gloating other than saying that Dev haters are deranged.
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Source:
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I expected. Fatso ran away, and "muh haters are either deranged/OBSESSED!!111".
AWarmToiletSeat said:
Ace, if you're going to be the only guy who gives enough of a shit on this issue to be the main spokesman for it, you're going to need to hold yourself to a higher standard of excellence. You shouldn't be making it so pathetically easy to just dismiss what you're saying out of hand because "Muh AI bot". Even if what you're saying is factually true, it needs to be both true, and impossible to ignore.
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You got this, @ACE1918 . Think of it as your first dive into how scummy these cunttubers are.
 
This was always going to go one way. @ACE1918 what was your intention going, exactly? I'm sure it can't have been to persuade anyone since that simply isn't what online debate is for and you had both a hostile interlocutor and audience off the bat anyway. These things only serve one function as far as I'm concerned and that's bottom of the barrel entertainment, this was unfortunately a bit of a snoozefest.
 
Laburnum said:
This was always going to go one way. @ACE1918 what was your intention going, exactly? I'm sure it can't have been to persuade anyone since that simply isn't what online debate is for and you had both a hostile interlocutor and audience off the bat anyway. These things only serve one function as far as I'm concerned and that's bottom of the barrel entertainment, this was unfortunately a bit of a snoozefest.
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I'll play devil's advocate for Ace. Yeah sure, this wasn't ever going to really be productive. We all in this thread, all 7 of us know this. Pretty obvious. But it proves things. It proves Ace isnt just dodging Dev who's such a coward he has to have other people defend him. It also proves how bad faith Dev and everyone around him are. Not everyone is on this site to see it after all. It also stops Dev and His buds from saying "Well, he put on an open debate and everyone was too scared to show up." No, we have proof someone was very willing to go on there, it wasnt cowardice, it was Dev being slimey. This isnt some career ending slam dunk against Dev that makes him flee the net. But every little bit counts.
 
Ok. To be real for a bit. Dev's fatal flaw as a political youtuber is that he lost perspective of the Right. The motivations, the things they value and focus on, and their goals. Dev can't feel the pulse of the Right-Wing anymore. As a result, he operates off of incomplete information, filling in the gaps with Left-Wing/Liberal interpretations of Right-Wing perspectives.

This in of itself, isn't a flaw. It makes him a Left wing pundit, but that in of itself isn't why his viewship is declining. No. The issue is that he, arrogantly, talks about the Right as if this weren't the case. As if he is a leading authority of the Right's perspective. And so when he covers political topics, he just gets things wrong or leaves things out. He's not looking at the full picture, he's looking at half of a picture with the second half an ai generated approximation. And he's telling you he's seeing the full picture.

Ace's debate wasn't the best. But it did highlight that disconnect. Forcing them to claim ignorance again and again discredits their claims of expertise each time. Especially in a public venue. And while I don't approve of the usage of Grok as much as you did, it is still very telling that this wasn't a stomp either way. Forcing Dev to public confront his knowledge and lack of knowledge of the Right will do more to force him to address his issues. Or fall into irrelevance.
 
Frag Tag Mini 3 said:
No, we have proof someone was very willing to go on there, it wasnt cowardice, it was Dev being slimey. This isnt some career ending slam dunk against Dev that makes him flee the net. But every little bit counts.
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This is the biggest fucking point here that no one has pointed out so far, and I personally didn't put on words because I hadn't realized yet: Why the fuck didn't ShitFromOrifices, the BASED GIGACHAD just debate Ace? No, he had to hide under his new crony like a retard.
Notspecialdude said:
Ok. To be real for a bit. Dev's fatal flaw as a political youtuber is that he lost perspective of the Right. The motivations, the things they value and focus on, and their goals. Dev can't feel the pulse of the Right-Wing anymore. As a result, he operates off of incomplete information, filling in the gaps with Left-Wing/Liberal interpretations of Right-Wing perspectives.
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This would be enough for me if he admitted his mistakes. But instead he just keeps dunking on people like he is relevant and a "wise" dipshit who knows the answers - which years him to have his head caved by jeets as soon as humanly possible.
 
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So now that the most degenerate thing I think I've read in quite a while is out of the way.

Dev has decided he's going to try for the centrist routine again.
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Mind you, As your resident Libertarian that thinks we'd be living in space colonies orbiting every planet in the solar system by now if not for the gov and people like Dev, I can tell you he'd be the first in line for forced removal. But sure man, lie to yourself and tell everyone a political compass test that lacks about 5 demensions is somehow accurate.

Also, a very interesting part of Dev's attempt to play centrist seems to be throwing trannies under the bus. Has he given up on having sex with them? Is this his gayness getting in the way and finding the idea of a man that actually (I guess through magic or sci fi nonsense) becomes a woman gross? Hard toe tell.

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What isn't hard to tell is that this is another example of Dev being very, INCREDIBLY bad faith. He's being exceptionally pedantic about what 'you' means and absurdly narrow in what is allowed as evidence. In this case he's rejecting the idea of outside conditions he doesn't or can't have knowledge of by replacing it with the straw man of the christian. There are actually several entierly materialistic conditions that do not require the existance of a soul in which the self as we know it is seperate from the body. However he can't engage with them because he's probably not smart enough to consider them. Brain in a jar, simulations theory, flawed perception, ect.

Honeslty this isn't even hard to pull apart. Ask him why 'you' is biological and he's likely to communicate something along the lines of "we can see, measure, and study nerves and muscles while we can't do the same to a soul or whatever." Ok fine. By that same token we could have an indavidual that Dev has never met before speak to him on the phone. We then ask if that person is a person or if their body being unstudyable by dev negates that person being real?

Of course someone might say that this is absurd because we know that a person talking on a phone requires a body to communicate. The problem with that being that the point of the experement is we have taken away your perception of the physical of the other person. AI, Actors, even animals can and have created the illusion of another person before, sometimes by accident meaning you're recognizing something that exists but isn't physical. In this case the concept of personhood. So we now have evidence of a concept unique to self aware individuals (after all, you dont say a rock is a person) but without any actuall evidence for it besides possibly false communication.

But this again comes back to how his being pedantic is just retarded. Because the best argument against this or any other line of reasoning is to argue for a definition of 'you' and hope you can make it so hyper specific as to create a materalist definition that somehow includes the perception of the physical while excluding the perception of the conceptual and I haven't thought that through but I'm sure it creates a mine field of other problems.

At least, I hope that all makes sense.

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Also Dev, I dont know. Maybe there's a reason Americans are starting to view europeans as their enemies (I know I do). Cause keep in mind, this is all the reaction to Trump talking about wanting to BUY Greenland. Not invading it, not saying he's going to steal it, not threatening violence against anyone. Wanting to buy.

You go into any store and ask if you can buy something, and they start making fun of your cousin's overdose and calling you a retard, the store cant act shocked when you kind of personally hate them.
 
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Scrump should make 'The Dev Video' but it just him screaming "HE'S FAT!" followed by 3 hours of whale noises
 
Frag Tag Mini 3 said:
Man, his account is just a gold mine today.

I present, your libertarian leaning centrist guys. Free speech Is good so long as it isnt free.

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Counterpoint: The social cost for behaving like a degenerate in public had all but disappeared, and we're slowly coming back to having standards. "Being rude" is the moderate reaction, a hundred years ago if a man put on a dress and tried to enter a women's parlor he'd be dragged out into the street and beaten.
 
i think debates etc have value, even if for yourself, but trying to do any of that with destiny/vaush/hasan or great valueTM ""intellectual"" fart huffers like sfo just doesn't work

you've got the barriers to start with of like, 1., they're grifters first so everything's a spectacle, like a wwe event, you have to fight hollywood hulk hogan before you can fight the belt holder, bruther. 2., their entire audience will be majority WE'RE NOT WORTHY/seizure inducing emote spam dents who just want more content from their thought leader, so "winning", changing minds, is a sisyphean task 3., they'd NEVER change their entire outlook and drop everything or publically course correct. if you have as much research, effort, and will it'd take to be a missionary or a "let's talk everything" kirk type, firstly you'd be infinitely better doing that, but you'll just be used as content, you might even get them tweeting "interesting stream x gave me a lot to think about" but then that shit would be dropped going forward. best active change you may see is something like "yes i agree with them, i've changed my outlook, i no longer think (x) or (y) is a homophobe sexist pig nazi, i just think they're incompetent and want nothing to do with them"

on paper, it'd be great if destiny course corrected and became a fucked up but trying actual father and dropped/minimized politics, i honestly think vaush's sassy nerd schtick can be entertaining and listenable if he shut the fuck up about politics you'd never even know were true or not coming from him, not screaming at everyone, and literally saying every other stream he only wants to win in debates and will lie, yell over etc to do so. i think hasan having some near crisis moment and then later popping on stream saying he's through with all the liberal bullshit and is returning to monke dudebro, and has infinite money, so fuck you cancellers, here's hasan and andrew tate on jet skis with models or some shit, would be one of the funniest things but it just will never happen. sfo is also like the LEAST worth effort. he's a smug, backstabbing, capital f Faggot that brings nothing to the table and has no redeeming qualities than wanting him as a smug etc with thinking lining up to personal preference

tldr, i do believe factual objective arguments could be made to him that are undeniable and have faith a user could do so, but i also believe getting *one* troon/near troon to realize how fucked hrt/surgeries are and getting them to be able to think for themselves going forward, or debating rad libs/groypers and dragging them back with teeth and claw would both be easier, and bring leagues more to the world and yourself. any fresh troon not literally drooling from the mouth/politard has more value to recover than sfo.

Bâtard Consanguine said:
Counterpoint: The social cost for behaving like a degenerate in public had all but disappeared, and we're slowly coming back to having standards. "Being rude" is the moderate reaction, a hundred years ago if a man put on a dress and tried to enter a women's parlor he'd be dragged out into the street and beaten.
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reddit/other echo chambers are the real super spreaders of shit, of encouraging all thoughts and reinforcing them, of people cutting their dicks off and factually lying of pain going away and it's fully pleasure, full working vagina etc to all people considering it who listen, people taking hrt and saying any claims of it fucking with bones are transphobes and being shunned/banned etc. social bullying needs to be brought back en force, because it often works like parental guidance. being fucked in the head shouldn't be babied and supported, and poor behavior should be callout out by peers to be course corrected instead of being "corrected" to further behavioral problems. society needs much more calling, and being allowed to call, people dumb niggers and dumb faggots. "pull your pants up, and no, your ass is not and will never be a fucking vagina, you dumb retard."

"bullying, early, and often"
 
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