DC Comics Multimedia General - A crisis of infinite fuck ups

[Humble Architect]

In the 90s Clark Kent was a bestselling novelist, in the 70s he was a tv anchor. Is DC really at the point now where no one knows him?


*citation needed

I love anchorman Clark, that’s some truly audacious and ballsy hiding in plain sight and smug Clark is best Clark. Like STAS Clark levels of “I’m actually Superman and I’m using it to cut you out fog the byline.”

I hate American Alien but him getting mistaken for Bruce Wayne and rolling with it, partying in the Bahamas with high society and living a music video life for a bit is still one of my favorite Clark Kent “younger years” moments. The Deathstroke encounter is the icing on the cake.

 

[Cnut]

I am not saying people do not know OF him. I am saying that in most versions, he is staying out of the spotlight. You get a picture here and there, an interview where he talks to someone people actually want to hear talk and maybe he had to take over a news segment where he behaved nothing like Superman. People do not care about the news anchors all that much. They have the news on while doing chores or scrolling on their phones only to glance at the TV when someone different than the news anchors says something. All in all, Clark does not try to attract attention beyond what he needs to.

In most adaptations anyway. He is mostly an investigative journalist that writes articles with Lois being the face of the news most often.


Fair enough:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ClarkKenting/Superman

Silver Age does not count.

This all continues to sound like weird head canon. I'm not saying I don't believe you. Just point to some issues instead of tv tropes

 

[Overly Serious]

I hate American Alien but him getting mistaken for Bruce Wayne and rolling with it, partying in the Bahamas with high society and living a music video life for a bit is still one of my favorite Clark Kent “younger years” moments. The Deathstroke encounter is the icing on the cake.

I thought American Alien was pretty good and on the subject of Lex, it had a pretty good depiction of the cueball himself.

That series also had the great scene where Batman ambushes Clark Kent and demands to know who he is, how he survived the Deathstroke attack, why his birth certificate is fake etc. At which point Clark picks him up and pins him to the wall and says "I'm not sure which is the better headline. 'Batman is Real!' Or 'Batman is Bruce Wayne'". Cue one startled Batman beating a rapid retreat.

 

[Incecticyder]

This all continues to sound like weird head canon. I'm not saying I don't believe you. Just point to some issues instead of tv tropes

There is not enough hours in the day for me to go through every issue. TVtropes might be a bunch of leftists but the article is politics free. It compiles references to the disguise from many runs. Call me lazy if you want. I do appreciate that they are better at pointing out episodes of the many TV series though.

The point is, some writers show how the disguise works rather well while others just consider it dumb. In later issues, you will see Clark avoiding jobs that require him to be on camera such as news anchor. Personally, I appreciate those that put effort in their writing and art more than those that just dismiss it.

And yes, some of it is headcanon. Many runs have conflicting explanations for the disguise. What can you do?

 

[Captain Syrup]

In the 90s Clark Kent was a bestselling novelist, in the 70s he was a tv anchor. Is DC really at the point now where no one knows him?

Same reason James Bond can be a “secret” agent while leaving a body count in the hundreds or why nobody notices Agent 47, a man who looks like a haunted thumb.

 

[elonmaize]

the Pulitzer-winning journalist can’t see through Clark’s dollar store disguise? Worse, she can’t see through Clark, or Bruce, or Lex?

she can't spell either.

e. So smart that he felt like listening to no one but pretended he did while planning to make them dance to his tune. If I were writing him, he would have been in both physical stuff like boxing and football as well academics as chess club and mathletes. He should be the kind of guy who was popular with everyone (nerds, jocks, teachers, cheerleaders, goths etc) and mastered everything he wanted easily.

there's a great interview with Donald Glover on the set of Atlanta where he just gives off a very Lex Luthor mentality, the same "everyone loves everything i do" style narcissism along with him just going, "i can be the best at anything i put my mind to" and thats how i imagine the Lex you're talking about.

 

[Incecticyder]

there's a great interview with Donald Glover on the set of Atlanta where he just gives off a very Lex Luthor mentality, the same "everyone loves everything i do" style narcissism along with him just going, "i can be the best at anything i put my mind to" and thats how i imagine the Lex you're talking about.

He could make a good Lex but he sounds more arrogant than proud. Lex CAN actually pull of most of the things he says he can. That is what makes him an equal to Supes.

 

[Polyboros2]

I think Lex was best in the Timmverse, especially Justice League, and decent in Young Justice.

He's best when he's a greedy business man, who will do big things even if it ruins the life of people he sees as insignificant as a consequence. He is petty and will murder people cause they failed/wronged him. But he isn't cartoon level evil. He doesn't do bad things cause he's sadistic, and he will do good things if it's in the best interest of the world(that he wants to have power and influence in).

Edit: Also, Clark being a bad cover for Superman would be a IQ test if it wasn't the fact that Superman media has gotten it wrong so much and made it a plot point.

Superman doesn't wear a mask. Superman doesn't appear to have a secret identity. No one should be trying to figure out who Superman is because no one should assume Superman pretends to be a normal person. "Well where does he live?" He can, and does, have a secret base. "How does he get food?" He can fly in space, who says he needs to eat? Someone finding out Superman disguises himself as a normal person would be a dramatic reveal even without them knowing who that person is.

 

[Captain Syrup]

I think Lex was best in the Timmverse, he will do good things if it's in his interest

The way you describe it is pretty much what Lois & Clark did: he had fingers in a lot of pies (lol), and Superman was basically a speed bump. Maybe a mildly annoying one, like when his riverside project barely stalled when Superman showed up.

Post-Crisis Luthor spent every waking moment obsessing over Superman like a rejected prom date. He just came off as sweaty and gross. Also, and I can’t believe this was a thing, but half my memories of that version involve him raping employees. Too much Harvey Weinstein, not enough Gordon Gekko.

 

[Incecticyder]

View attachment 7397940

The way you describe it is pretty much what Lois & Clark did: he had fingers in a lot of pies (lol), and Superman was basically a speed bump. Maybe a mildly annoying one, like when his riverside project barely stalled when Superman showed up.

Post-Crisis Luthor spent every waking moment obsessing over Superman like a rejected prom date. He just came off as sweaty and gross. Also, and I can’t believe this was a thing, but half my memories of that version involve him raping employees. Too much Harvey Weinstein, not enough Gordon Gekko.

I think both approaches have merit. My Lex would be an in-between of the two. Superman would be a speedbump, a small inconvenience here and there. He has bigger fish to fry and maybe he can manipulate him too. Yes, he was surprised by him but the assumption that there would be problems means that he had backups.

And then, Superman went and did it. He exposed him. Perhaps not in a way he cannot weasel out of the situation but the government is going to look more closely into the weird things that happen as they are investigating him now and he needs to lay low. His plans are paused indefinitely. His mooks might break from pressure due to the police and the mythical creature in spandex that flies over the city taking a closer look in their actions. Lex experienced his first true defeat, one he cannot recover from and he is forced to plan around someone for the first time in his life. All the weapons he developed that would break peace treaties are shrugged by the flying demigod as if they were twigs hitting a steel safe.

And then, a thought comes into his mind. A foreign thought, one he was sure he would never have to make: "This will not be easy..."

Might be a bit cheesy but you can write a good Lex Luthor that fits both the pre- and post- Crisis characterizations while still keeping him interesting to the reader. Sad thing is, the writers try to hard to make such characters relatable. He does not need it as he is no such villain.

 

[Cryborg 1987]

Should have responded earlier, but all those films mentioned had issues...

Now I'm on the tardy train. I don't have any major disagreements with anything you said, but the "issues" don't matter when the only thing WB cares about is money. If Batman Returns financially outperformed Batman Burton and Keaton are making Batman 3. Same thing with Superman Returns and so on and so forth. If James Gunn's Superman underperforms (whatever that means) he either gets the hook or starts getting told who/what to put in his movies.

 

[Humble Architect]

The way you describe it is pretty much what Lois & Clark did: he had fingers in a lot of pies (lol), and Superman was basically a speed bump. Maybe a mildly annoying one, like when his riverside project barely stalled when Superman showed up.


Post-Crisis Luthor spent every waking moment obsessing over Superman like a rejected prom date. He just came off as sweaty and gross. Also, and I can’t believe this was a thing, but half my memories of that version involve him raping employees. Too much Harvey Weinstein, not enough Gordon Gekko.

I like Superman becoming Lex’s white whale but over time, as those setbacks become defeats and those defeats become scars on his brain that will never go away, that’s when he’s like “I hate you so much I want to be you so bad.”

“I can’t remember a morning, I haven’t woken up with the thought of strangling you!”
-Lex high as fuck during Public Enemies

Lex in my opinion should have a hedonistic streak, but only for further ego-boost, “the best deserves the best” sort of thing but they always let him down, never being his perfect combination of beauty and brains (himself) so basically take his hilarious amazon-chaser bit from that shitty SS game and roll it into his self-image. Plus it’d be another way him and Clark are similar, they both like fiesty, strong women, just for very different reasons.

He could make a good Lex but he sounds more arrogant than proud. Lex CAN actually pull of most of the things he says he can. That is what makes him an equal to Supes.

I think if you gave an actual narcissistic douchebag the Lex role, you’d get some kino. The problem is those guys are rarely bald and are definitely not willing to go bald for a comic book role, especially now.

 

[Incecticyder]

Lex in my opinion should have a hedonistic streak, but only for further ego-boost, “the best deserves the best” sort of thing but they always let him down, never being his perfect combination of beauty and brains (himself) so basically take his hilarious amazon-chaser bit from that shitty SS game and roll it into his self-image. Plus it’d be another way him and Clark are similar, they both like fiesty, strong women, just for very different reasons.

It is further emphasized by him managing to seduce Mercy who is an Amazon in some continuities. Even those who are stronger than him will bow. He has women throwing themselves at him but in many cases he goes after those that do not because he sees them as conquests. He has no real interest in forming bonds.

I think if you gave an actual narcissistic douchebag the Lex role, you’d get some kino. The problem is those guys are rarely bald and are definitely not willing to go bald for a comic book role, especially now.

Sure you would but it is not enough. The difference between arrogance and pride is that pride is backed by intelligence while arrogance is mostly an overinflated ego. Lex backs up his statements with facts. He is as great as he thinks he is. That is what makes him tolerable and entertaining. Also, I am fine with not going bald as long as it is a great actor. It has to be someone who truly captures the ego of that man but also make it clear that it is not inflated.

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

Lex in my opinion should have a hedonistic streak, but only for further ego-boost, “the best deserves the best” sort of thing but they always let him down, never being his perfect combination of beauty and brains (himself) so basically take his hilarious amazon-chaser bit from that shitty SS game and roll it into his self-image. Plus it’d be another way him and Clark are similar, they both like fiesty, strong women, just for very different reasons.

Maybe I am misreading Lex, but I honestly see Lex as someone who has some level of respect for individuality and power, which seems to be a key aspect of his relationships. The dude seems to hate most of the women who will crawl all over him, hell, he doesn’t even seem to show that much respect to those who blindly follow him in the Legion of Doom.

Comparatively, his best relationships seem to be mostly combative or have some element where the person will call him out on his shit. This is weirdly best seen with Mercy in STAS. Dude couldn’t care about her at all throughout the series. Then, he gave her the company in JL and she started being more independently minded, to which he seemed to start treating her more like an equal afterwards. (Also, some comments point out how Toyman is pretty questioning of Lex in JL, yet Lex seems to respect that and not piss him off)

He has been after Amanda Waller before, particularly in Batman & Superman. Yet another woman who is basically completely uncontrollable. Seeing Mercy and Amanda, it makes more sense why he is so into Lois, the girl has a will and acts as a challenge to him. Deep down, he can appreciate that.

I think the most obvious indicator is the fact that his arguably most deep relationship is with the Joker. Joker is completely uncontrollable and better off dead for Luthor, yet the man consistently brings the clown up next to him. He can bullshit about how it is to prevent Joker from killing him or how he is unpredictable, but it is pretty clear the two are the only ones who really “get” one-another. They both have a nihilistic view of the world being meaningless, but where Joker wants to burn it, Lex thinks he can reconstruct it to have meaning. Lex, for all of his bitching, does seem to really respect the Joker and how he can solve many things Lex cannot, along with having enough of his own will to improvise and add more to whatever plan Lex has.

 

[Idiotron]

If James Gunn's Superman underperforms (whatever that means) he either gets the hook or starts getting told who/what to put in his movies.

DC movie division is extremely reactionary so, if it makes less than a billion, Gunn's entire big plan will get changed instantly, just like Snyder's plan to make a Superman trilogy got instantly changed.

 

[Incecticyder]

Maybe I am misreading Lex, but I honestly see Lex as someone who has some level of respect for individuality and power, which seems to be a key aspect of his relationships. The dude seems to hate most of the women who will crawl all over him, hell, he doesn’t even seem to show that much respect to those who blindly follow him in the Legion of Doom.

Comparatively, his best relationships seem to be mostly combative or have some element where the person will call him out on his shit. This is weirdly best seen with Mercy in STAS. Dude couldn’t care about her at all throughout the series. Then, he gave her the company in JL and she started being more independently minded, to which he seemed to start treating her more like an equal afterwards. (Also, some comments point out how Toyman is pretty questioning of Lex in JL, yet Lex seems to respect that and not piss him off)

He has been after Amanda Waller before, particularly in Batman & Superman. Yet another woman who is basically completely uncontrollable. Seeing Mercy and Amanda, it makes more sense why he is so into Lois, the girl has a will and acts as a challenge to him. Deep down, he can appreciate that.

Lex respects those that can match him but he also likes his plans going his way. I think part of his obsession with Superman is him being dumbfounded as to how to deal with him. Yes, he has had people that could keep up with him but never one that could both defeat him and be impossible to work around. Lex could be defeated by the US Gov freezing his assets and gunning him down but he made the country at large his ally. Superman is seeing through his bullshit and can fight him. The stars aligned and Lex cannot come up with a good enough plan. Supes cannot be bribed, defeated, outsmarting him is hard, he has a ton of abilities that are hard to plan around and has access to alien tech. Lex has his work cut out for him.

I think the most obvious indicator is the fact that his arguably most deep relationship is with the Joker. Joker is completely uncontrollable and better off dead for Luthor, yet the man consistently brings the clown up next to him. He can bullshit about how it is to prevent Joker from killing him or how he is unpredictable, but it is pretty clear the two are the only ones who really “get” one-another. They both have a nihilistic view of the world being meaningless, but where Joker wants to burn it, Lex thinks he can reconstruct it to have meaning. Lex, for all of his bitching, does seem to really respect the Joker and how he can solve many things Lex cannot, along with having enough of his own will to improvise and add more to whatever plan Lex has.

I cannot recall the issue (I tried finding it years ago but failed) but I remember Lex saying that the reason he invites the Joker is because he is a dangerous attention whore. If you make a villain group with all the biggest baddies in the world and you omit The Joker, he will feel spurned and try to sabotage you. Better to make him feel included and take the hit by allowing some unpredictability to your plans than risk inviting his wrath.

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

I cannot recall the issue (I tried finding it years ago but failed) but I remember Lex saying that the reason he invites the Joker is because he is a dangerous attention whore. If you make a villain group with all the biggest baddies in the world and you omit The Joker, he will feel spurned and try to sabotage you. Better to make him feel included and take the hit by allowing some unpredictability to your plans than risk inviting his wrath.

Their relationship can vary wildly depending on writer or adaptation, but the two most common explanations seem to be either Lex respects the Joker for his unpredictable nature and unique genius, or, as you said, he cannot omit him. Did some digging on the topic of their relationship, I think what you are thinking of is the Joker killing the entire LOD in Infinite Crisis. Deaths Lex set up Joker to do since his son took power from him.

Then in another story, Lex will randomly talk about how he and Joker would be unstoppable together if they combined their smarts. That Joker is a brilliant mind from a certain view. Most adaptations seem to go with Joker being useful, particularly the DCAU, which I prefer as it avoids Joker-wank, as Lex should theoretically be able to just get rid of him with decent success. Not like he has powers to really put up a fight.

On more rare occasions, they are pretty much made to be outright friends. The LEGO adaptations in particular take this view, along with Justice League Action, kind of. Even some comic excerpts play into it.

Personal view, Joker really is Lex's only "friend." The man definitely respects the clown and values him. I think Joker hits the sweet spot of being someone Lex can work with given that Joker doesn't exactly look to completely take over his shit, at least not initially like a Grodd would. I also think Joker likes Lex, arguably has been shown to be even more affectionate towards him. The two certainly piss each other off, but they really are the only ones who can really understand the worldview of the other. As I put in the original post, they are both nihilists, but with completely different takeaways:

 

[Humble Architect]

Lex and Joker are fun because they’re the anti-World’s Finest, a sociopathic control freak at the top of society and a psychopathic anarchist from the bottom of society naturally don’t work well together but when they set aside the hatchets long enough, just like that other duo of an edgelord and a larger than life idealist, they get shit done.

 

[Incecticyder]

Their relationship can vary wildly depending on writer or adaptation, but the two most common explanations seem to be either Lex respects the Joker for his unpredictable nature and unique genius, or, as you said, he cannot omit him. Did some digging on the topic of their relationship, I think what you are thinking of is the Joker killing the entire LOD in Infinite Crisis. Deaths Lex set up Joker to do since his son took power from him.

Then in another story, Lex will randomly talk about how he and Joker would be unstoppable together if they combined their smarts. That Joker is a brilliant mind from a certain view. Most adaptations seem to go with Joker being useful, particularly the DCAU, which I prefer as it avoids Joker-wank, as Lex should theoretically be able to just get rid of him with decent success. Not like he has powers to really put up a fight.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=TEtb4pcae6wOn more rare occasions, they are pretty much made to be outright friends. The LEGO adaptations in particular take this view, along with Justice League Action, kind of. Even some comic excerpts play into it.

Personal view, Joker really is Lex's only "friend." The man definitely respects the clown and values him. I think Joker hits the sweet spot of being someone Lex can work with given that Joker doesn't exactly look to completely take over his shit, at least not initially like a Grodd would. I also think Joker likes Lex, arguably has been shown to be even more affectionate towards him. The two certainly piss each other off, but they really are the only ones who can really understand the worldview of the other. As I put in the original post, they are both nihilists, but with completely different takeaways:

Yeah, that might be the one. Still, I can see those two being friends. I think Lex is intrigued by what the Joker might be. Is he a demon, a madman, someone who plays the insane to get away with things?

I think that Lex is not afraid of the Joker. The Clown comes to Metropolis, he wrecks shit, Lex pays for the damages and the city loves him again. The Joker is very much the kind of crisis he can use. Especially when he distracts Supes for a day or two. Still, I can also see some agreement in them. Lex wants the world in his palm and Joker wants a stage. They can totally play ball. If Lex won, Lex would be the king of the world and the Joker would be the danger that is allowed to run wild because you can blame everything on him.

 

[Captain Syrup]

DC movie division is extremely reactionary so, if it makes less than a billion, Gunn's entire big plan will get changed instantly, just like Snyder's plan to make a Superman trilogy got instantly changed.

You're not wrong—but Burton gave them Batman and Warner Bros thanked him by making him shoot BR in what might have been the back lot of a Circuit City. They're just cheap miserable bastards.