Opinion Dave Ramsey Tips You Should Ignore

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Dave Ramsey Tips You Should Ignore​

It pays to be discerning when it comes to exaggerated financial advice.

Key points​

  • No one gets it right 100% of the time.
  • Depending on more than one source for financial advice may be the best bet.
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Whether you love him, loathe him, or have never heard his name, Dave Ramsey does have followers, adherents who cling to his every word. Some of what Ramsey says makes a lot of sense. After all, debt suffocates financial dreams, and living beyond your means typically leads to trouble. However, there are some Ramseyism's we cannot get behind.
READ MORE: How to Pay off Debt

Pay off your mortgage early​

The idea of living without a mortgage is pure bliss, and that alone may be worth something. But if your mortgage interest rate is considerably lower than the amount you could be earning on investments, why in the world would you choose to pay your house off instead of invest?

To get an idea of how off the mark Ramsey might be with this nugget, we looked at the average fixed 30-year mortgage rate in January of each year from 2000 to 2020. When we averaged those years, we came up with 4.67%. We wanted to include the years in and around the Great Recession because the interest rates were pretty crummy for a while there.
We also took a look at how the S&P 500 performed between 2000 and 2020. After adjusting for inflation, the S&P 500 earned an annual average of 6.76%.
Let's assume that someone purchased a $300,000 home in 2000, took out a 30-year mortgage, and had an extra $300 each month to either pay down their mortgage or invest in the S&P 500. How do those two monthly investments compare?
FINANCIAL FOCUSMONTHLY INVESTMENTINTEREST RATEOUTCOME AFTER 20 YEARS
Pay Off House Early$3004.67%Home scheduled to be paid off 8 years, 7 months early, for a total savings of $83,320
Invest in Market$3006.76%Adjusted for inflation, earnings of $143,773
The beauty of making regular house payments and investing the extra $300? Even if the value of the home purchased in 2000 has gone through the roof over 20 years, the homeowner still benefits from the extra equity, whether the home is paid in full or not.

We're not saying that no one should pay a mortgage off early. The point is that it's not the right choice for everyone. Investing is historically a better bet for anyone looking to supersize their retirement account.

READ MORE: How to Open a Brokerage Account: A Step-by-Step Guide

And speaking of returns​

Ramsey loves to tell folks they'll earn 12% in the stock market. To that, we ask, "When? Who? And How?" There are so many things wrong with Ramsey's promise to his followers that we'll have to break them down.

Average annual returns are a small part of the picture​


Let's imagine that someone inherited $1,000 and decided to open a brokerage account and invest the money. The first year was excellent, and the investment earned 100%. The following year was rough, and the investment lost 50%. A little simple math indicates the average annual return over those two years was 25%.

It was not 25%, and here's why: The first year, the investment grew by 100%, making it $2,000. The following year, it lost 50%, taking it back to $1,000. In other words, the investor was right back where they started two years earlier, with $1,000. In any book, that's an overall annual return of 0%.

Ramsey was using some old numbers and (too) simple math​

According to Ramsey's website, his promise of 12% earnings is based on the average annual return of the S&P 500 from 1928 through 2020 (that raw percentage is actually around 11.64%). Although it sounds pretty impressive, this average does not account for volatility, hefty fees charged by some brokers, and inflation.

Remember our illustration comparing paying a house off early to investing in the S&P 500? There's a reason we used 6.76% instead of 11.64%. It's because 6.76% reflects actual growth after all other factors, fees, and disruptions are figured in. Being realistic about what you can expect to earn can prevent you from making big mistakes, like being overly optimistic or under-funding your investments.

No human being is all right or all wrong, and on occasion, we catch a piece of Ramsey's advice that is right on the money. That said, putting all your trust in one person – particularly when that person is top dog at his company and may or may not have anyone to tell him when he's off-base – is an unsafe practice.
 
Dave Ramsey's debt snowball is retarded.

The idea is you pay off the smallest debts first, regardless of interest rate, so that you feel better as you quickly simplify your debt situation.
If you're the sort of person who has trouble tracking money, that can arguably make sense, but only because of that flaw. Otherwise, you are deliberately wasting money by doing that.
 
Dave Ramsey's debt snowball is retarded.

The idea is you pay off the smallest debts first, regardless of interest rate, so that you feel better as you quickly simplify your debt situation.
If you're the sort of person who has trouble tracking money, that can arguably make sense, but only because of that flaw. Otherwise, you are deliberately wasting money by doing that.

You gotta remember he is usually dealing with people who are basically addicts and frames his advice around it.

And his plans usually involve paying off debt within two years. Your way may save a month or two but the success rate of his will be higher. People like you who figure this out are unlikely to really need his help.
 
You gotta remember he is usually dealing with people who are basically addicts and frames his advice around it.

And his plans usually involve paying off debt within two years. Your way may save a month or two but the success rate of his will be higher. People like you who figure this out are unlikely to really need his help.
You're completely right, his advice is actually really good, it's just suboptimal if you know what you're doing. I feel like his advice on that should be qualified with "if you're not good at accounting." But like you said too, if you are you probably didn't get deeply into debt.
 

Ramsey was using some old numbers and (too) simple math​

According to Ramsey's website, his promise of 12% earnings is based on the average annual return of the S&P 500 from 1928 through 2020 (that raw percentage is actually around 11.64%).
This part bothers me. I'd be willing to say the math is simplified, but to call a solid 72 years of numbers up through 2020 "old numbers"?

There's 2 ways to take that. Either they take issue with the 1928, or they take issue with the 2020.

If they take issue with the 1928 because 1927 was an outlier and it's a dishonest cut, fair enough, but please say so. If they take issue with the 1928 because it's decades old - which I'm assuming is the case due to the section header - do you not know what a track record is or why long term data is more reliable?

If they take issue with the 2020, in what world is (barely) 2 year old data "old numbers"? It might not account for the new model of money printer go brr but it is recent enough that I can honestly see that being because the page is frozen in time until someone updates it rather than it being a dishonest end point.

I know we're living in clown world but 2020 data shouldn't be considered irrelevant yet.



That aside, yeah like others said. You can minmax harder but you need to be able to crunch the numbers yourself and know your limits. This is both a smarts issue and a time issue. He's just raising the lower limits for his target audience.

I'm pleasantly surprised (because we're in A&N) to see this isn't complaining about the 3 rules to avoiding poverty, which I don't know that he cited but I'm going to assume it was him because I don't watch finance advice much. The thing about graduating high school and getting married before having a baby.

I was also prepared for the possibility that this would be whining about his advice that you get into a monogamous heterosexual marriage, or that you combine finances and not hide money from your spouse whom you somehow still suspect you'll need to run away from.

All in all... This feels too... Sane? And like a Bidness article? For A&N.
 
It's very funny to me that they talked about the 2008 recession and said that the stock market is a better option than paying off debt in the same paragraph. If you put your money into the stock market in 2007, it would have taken you six years just to recoup the loss. Meanwhile, you could have been living nearly debt free by then, which gives you significantly more money to make more reliable investments with in the future.

Yes, it's true that the stock market has skyrocketed over the past ten years, but that's what we call a bubble, and it's going to be a motherfucker for anyone still relying on liquid or semi-liquid assets when that thing bursts. The stock market is the absolute last place I would suggest a long term thinker put their money right now. If you're day trading, sure, but we've got another collapse coming in probably months, not years.
 
Dave Ramsey is trying to train high time preference individuals to reduce their time preference. His advice is geared towards the kind of people who get stuck in the cycle of racking up bills they can't pay, having to take payday loans, then having to pay those loans off. If you're the kind of person who spends within their means and pays credit cards down in full each month, his advice doesn't apply. Paying down your mortgage is an easy way to save money that pays better than a savings account, and since it's not liquid you can't just cash it out and splurge, so it's great for high time preference people. But if you're already low time preference then you are looking towards investment rather than just saving. You have a 401k and/or IRA that you automatically invest part of your paycheck in, and paying down your mortgage isn't advisable when there are better investment opportunities available.
 
His advice is geared towards the kind of people who get stuck in the cycle of racking up bills they can't pay, having to take payday loans, then having to pay those loans off.
Except even then some of his advice is questionable:
Ramsey said:

2. Should I tithe while trying to pay off debt?​

Even if you’re in debt or walking through a rough financial season, tithing should still be a priority. Yep—you read that right. While it’s tempting to throw that money at your debt, the discipline and faith that tithing brings are so worth it. Even while you’re paying down debt, you can still have an attitude of generosity.

If you think it’ll take a miracle to get through the month with 10% less in your wallet, you might need to do a lifestyle check. Take a look at your budget and find ways to cut back on spending. It might mean limiting some of your fun money, packing your lunch instead of eating out every day, brewing your own coffee, or buying generic products—but it is possible!
 
Ramsey is AA but for people in debt. I don't think any of his tips or system is mathmatically strong, but is meant to be more of a ritual and non-subjective so the financially weakminded don't stray. Anyone who has a savings or investments is way past what his system provides. Much like anyone who knows how to read a balance sheet is beyond fool.com's bogus newsletters and stock tips.

Except even then some of his advice is questionable:
Modern Christianity is often "be who you are and feel good, and only use the verses that don't make you uncomfortable." If you want to claim to be following God, you have to go all-in especially on the stuff many say are not "modern age compatible." In a way it's similar to an all or nothing system like Ramsey, so if he were subjective on tithe it'd undermine his system too.
 
It's very funny to me that they talked about the 2008 recession and said that the stock market is a better option than paying off debt in the same paragraph. If you put your money into the stock market in 2007, it would have taken you six years just to recoup the loss. Meanwhile, you could have been living nearly debt free by then, which gives you significantly more money to make more reliable investments with in the future.
As general advice it's sound. There's no way to tell if you're investing in a peak, and there's no way to tell when you can make more reliable investments in the future (I guess you mean buy in at the bottom).
 
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