Darktide

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If that photo is accurate, it looks like we're getting a couple new types of pistol, which is fine by me.

I'm sure that the Psyker, Zealot, and Vet will end up with those in their arsenal at some point.

The Ogryn obviously won't care, and the Arbites wouldn't touch the weapons of a poop-smeared junkie anyway.
 
Slow day at work so fuck It, I'll sperg.
Here are some consideration about why for me the new class, and especially the trailer, is a bummer.
All based on my personal headcanon of WH40k so plz no bully.

"Vibe" wise, at least to me but it's something I have seen quite frequently lamented in multiple places, there has always been a disconnect between what should be possible for the Rejects and what we actually do in game: the level of carnage we deliver is nothing short of Movie Marines tier, we consistently humiliate the Moebian VIth, a company of hardened veterans of the Guard, slay dozens of Daemons (lesser, daemonic beasts akchually whatever) and possessed, scythe through hundreds and hundreds of chaos rebels and a zillion infected.

This is why I think the Arbites was an "aesthetic" match with the (admittedly awesome) gameplay: it is, while still not fully credible, a step towards closing the power level disconnect.
This is also why I would argue many people hoped for Admech/Skitarii and Sororitas: you could actually kind of picture them doing what we do.

And then in comes the Hive Scum.
That name is so unfortunate (even if it is/was a Dark Heresy class), scum that come from the hive, when players think of it what comes to mind is someone with a power level comparable to a Dreg Bruiser.
Instead in theory they should be presented as some legendary tier mob enforcer, assassins and mercenaries and bounty hunters whose names are hushed in fear and reverence by millions of hivers.

Finally the trailer drops, sell it to us Fatshark!
After all just like the Rejects, there are many, many "scum" in Tertium, vast majority will die in ignominy, but yours is special, he is the one that as a child would have been selected as an Astartes recruit.
Show us what the best among dozens of millions can do and how they do it.
And instead of a Batman style terror of the shadowy corners stalking the usurpers we get a scrawny chick with a fucking crowbar and kitchen utensils that looks ripped straight from Concord.
Oh we got a Batman alright, but the one from the sixties children tv series! Sock! Whap! Kablamo!

They played into the misnomer "scum" instead of ripping it away!

At least Vets can cope that plasma and power weapons pretty good frfr. Zealot could be so sincerely, fanatically devoted that the Emperor is actually blessing them into holy fervour.
Wtf is this crackwhore gonna do?
Give Nurgle cultists MORE aids and open their marriage into a polycule? Wreck their online lawyer career?
Oh shit! Dibs on the name! No one dare ya fuckers!
 
h3catoncheries said:
Show us what the best among dozens of millions can do and how they do it.
And instead of a Batman style terror of the shadowy corners stalking the usurpers we get a scrawny chick with a fucking crowbar and kitchen utensils that looks ripped straight from Concord.
Oh we got a Batman alright, but the one from the sixties children tv series! Sock! Whap! Kablamo!
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Fuck I had an epiphany, feel free to call me a raging retard though if I'm wrong.

Looking at the dev log, the most flashy parts of the ganger class are three things:
1.Powered by drugs
2.Big fuckin missile launcher
3.dual wielding, specifically handguns

If given the task of making a trailer for this new class, it seems obvious as to what parts they would focus on in a trailer, but as it is the trailer barely even has the dual wielding and nothing of the other interesting parts.
People have also been speculating that the trailer we got might have been whipped up in just a week, as evidenced by the lack of polish, such as there being no blood, reused models, or the dumb run the scabs do.
(Schizo from here on.)

I think its possible, maybe even probable, that GW pulled the plug on a trailer at the 11th hour, one that showed off the ganger's cool parts, due to a fear of people drawing connection between the class and other copyright.
What other copyrighted character, specifically in video games, has the same trails as the ganger class?
1.Powered by drugs
2.Big fuckin missile launcher
3.Uses handguns
4.Lives in crime ridden underbelly of society located below polite civilization
5.brightly colored hair

I don't think its beyond the realm of possibility that someone, somewhere at Fatshark or more probably GW saw similarities between the original ganger trailer and fucking Riot copyright of all things, and pulled the trailer to avoid connections while forcing them to make a new trailer without these defining traits, meaning that the new trailer could at best get away with dual wielding and none of the other cool stuff. Thus, the ganger having lame hair, no face paint, no missile launcher, no drug powers, a crowbar and fuck all else. It seems silly to pull a trailer for such a dumb thing, but given GW is staffed by actual retards and their lawyers are copyright crackheads, it wouldn't surprise me if they did something this dumb despite how much it would fuck over Fatshark.
 
FagDiddler said:
People have also been speculating that the trailer we got might have been whipped up in just a week, as evidenced by the lack of polish, such as there being no blood, reused models, or the dumb run the scabs do.
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I don't think it's even speculation at this point. Fatshark's trailers have always punched way above their weight going all the way back to Vermintide 1 and this ganger trailer looks like something a couple of frustrated artists whipped up in a couple of days. Contrast it to the Arbites trailer which is at least imo the best piece of promotional material they've done to date. Tanner the homo put out a video last night pointing out just how scuffed the trailer is. The only things that I noticed on the first watch was how stiff the character is and how the guns just magically appear in her hands.

FagDiddler said:
I don't think its beyond the realm of possibility that someone, somewhere at Fatshark or more probably GW saw similarities between the original ganger trailer and fucking Riot copyright of all things, and pulled the trailer to avoid connections while forcing them to make a new trailer without these defining traits, meaning that the new trailer could at best get away with dual wielding and none of the other cool stuff. Thus, the ganger having lame hair, no face paint, no missile launcher, no drug powers, a crowbar and fuck all else. It seems silly to pull a trailer for such a dumb thing, but given GW is staffed by actual retards and their lawyers are copyright crackheads, it wouldn't surprise me if they did something this dumb despite how much it would fuck over Fatshark.
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The thing I'm having trouble with is that we know GW is breathing over Fatshark's shoulder so you'd think that if the original trailer was that unacceptable, it would have been nipped in bud weeks if not months ago. So that leaves me with two questions:
1) we know GW forced Fatshark's hand with the Arbites to coincide with the Arbitrator for Rogue Trader; did they exert similar pressure for the ganger to be the next class?
2) if the former is true, then why is it that GW wasn't prepared with a clear and concise visual design as was done with the Arbites? And if not, then it circles back to my original point of how did it get so far without triggering any red flags.
Ever since we found out what the relationship between Fatshark and GW looks like, I've had a lot more sympathy for Fatshark, or at the very least I've become less quick to dispense judgment for certain shortcomings. I remember back in VT2 some of the sticking points was why didn't the Slayer have a giant flowing mohawk and why were certain weapons half the size they should be. We now know the answer but we still don't know why GW is this restrictive besides the obvious of them being massive fun hating faggots. Also important to point out that Saber Interactive doesn't seem to be subject to this same level of scrutiny and their game features the most valuable part of the 40k IP.

Also, this is the original VT1 cinematic trailer. It looks fucking great.

eta: the ganger trailer looks like one of those low effort trailers they shit out for events here and there that nobody actually watches.
 
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Asian tech support said:
1) we know GW forced Fatshark's hand with the Arbites to coincide with the Arbitrator for Rogue Trader; did they exert similar pressure for the ganger to be the next class?
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I don't think ganger was forced, simply because an underhive criminal fits in with the whole rejects bit Darktide has been going for. I've been expecting ganger to be a class at some point since launch so if anything the fact we got arbites first was the bigger surprise.
Asian tech support said:
how did it get so far without triggering any red flags.
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It could have been a simple case of the GW rep not making any connections until the last moment when they did a final rundown of the planned reveal trailer after it was fully animated, as any copyright connections are purely in passing, or maybe I'm totally off and the og trailer was scrapped for something even more mind bogglingly dumb than what I proposed, so who the fuck knows. But whatever it was, the issue GW had with the trailer was only for the trailer, not the class as it still has all the stuff the trailer should've shown and its release date wasn't pushed back at all so content hasn't been altered.
 
Not a whole lot of information we didn't already know but he confirmed a couple of things:
-hive ganger was their decision, not GW's
-there are more than three additional classes being bandied around; this number has expanded since the Arbites
-they STILL don't read their own forums, instead taking pointers from reddit and discord troons
-more QoL stuff that's been present in mods is likely coming so big ups to our console brothers
Unfortunately he didn't clarify why the reveal was so ass.
 
I can't wait to run around as a crackhead with twin gats.

If you see an XBOX gamer running around as Jamal Jenkums, it'll probably be me.
 
FagDiddler said:
Less than a week before launch for Fatshark to drop the first bit of hive scum gameplay and its only nine seconds...
Ganger-Kino.mp4
Still looks pretty kino tho.
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There was arbites gameplay (on low difficulty because the devs are bad at their own game) two weeks before the class came out. I don't know why they're so clammed up about releasing information.
 
Asian tech support said:
There was arbites gameplay (on low difficulty because the devs are bad at their own game) two weeks before the class came out. I don't know why they're so clammed up about releasing information.
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The embargo on gameplay footage also ends on Friday, a whopping four days before release. With such a short turn around between the announcement and launch they should be flooding us with new stuff almost every day to draw in hype. The fact they haven't released more makes a part of me worry they're gonna do another rug-pull and announce a delay on Monday or something similar.
 
FagDiddler said:
The embargo on gameplay footage also ends on Friday, a whopping four days before release. With such a short turn around between the announcement and launch they should be flooding us with new stuff almost every day to draw in hype. The fact they haven't released more makes a part of me worry they're gonna do another rug-pull and announce a delay on Monday or something similar.
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Not so much worried about a last minute delay as I am in them not being confident in the product or it being otherwise unfit for show.
 
Imo the lack of distinct characters was a mistake. After playing lots of vermintide 2 I dearly miss the superior voice lines and defined characters. Darktide feels like the voice lines are very mismatched and incredibly generic. Its very obvious it runs off a cookie cutter response system leaving most conversations feeling awkward. Half the time the responses characters give to one another make no sense

I'm assuming they went this route purely for easier cosmetic sales
 

Mister E. premiered hive scum on a livestream.
Cosmetics:
-Launches with more free cosmetics than the arbites has total.
-Different colors for armor depending on the cartel chosen in character creation.
-Lots of new hairstyles and options for face paint.



Weapons:
(Note, toxins have a lower cap on damage than burning but is better against armor and some weapons have a nerfed version of uncanny strike, but some others have the normal version.)
-Crowbar: High base damage, talents give you more stats based on doing certain things (ie more attack speed on specialist kill). Crowbar has lots of stagger which hive scum otherwise lacks. Can penetrate armor on secondary mode, even with light attacks, kills crushers easily.
-Shivs: Two handed but no way to one hand it (no dual wield weapons can be one handed), fast movement like combat knife. Weapon special is throwing knife with toxin that penetrates armor, can get back throwing knives with elite kills or backstab kills.(Basically zealot knives but as part of your melee.)
-Bone saw: Difficult to use. First mode passively applies toxin to every enemy it hits, but does more toxin damage to light enemies and less to armored enemies. Secondary mode does brittleness damage to armor that stacks with other brittleness sources. Has new blessing that hurts enemies more when they have toxin debuff.

Overall for Melee, great options for shredding armor and killing crushers.

-Needler: Does little damage but kills with toxin damage. Great for picking off specific targets and has small ammo pool. Toxin spreads to nearby enemies when main target dies making it useful for clearing hordes. Secondary mode also applies brittleness to enemies like the bone saw. Slow reload.
-Auto pistols: Shreds everything but armor easily, two fire modes with different fire rates, high stagger potential and high toughness regen (which the hive scum struggles with). Slow reload.
-Dual pistols: High damage with decent fire rate, special attack allows for greater accuracy at a distance. Great blessings. Fast reload. (Also looks the most fun imo.)

Overall for ranged, good damage options, no issue with ammo supply with the right talents, great for killing anything that isn't a crusher which the dual pistols can do decently but they aren't optimal for it.

Non scum weapons:
-shredder pistol is great, as are most other stubber weapons and axe weapons with scum talents.



Talents:
(Not going to be so in-depth on talents cause I don't care about individual % point differences and neither should you.)
(Also the major stuff is already kinda known about.)

Also you can unselect talents without having to undo everything below it.

By default the class has great stamina regen with no delay between action and regen, can regen stamina while sprint sliding. But the class has low toughness. Glass cannon that prioritizes never getting hit more than tanking damage.

Major stuff: With the right talents you don't have to ever worry about running out of ammo. Lots of talent for crowd control. Other talents let you one-shot just about any one enemy. Decent damage reduction talents to increase survivability.
Very few talents increase damage, utility bonuses over raw damage increases is the norm, but some talents let you carry excess damage between enemies.

Blitz:
-Flash grenade: Great stagger, can deal damage with a talent, get one grenade back for every 20 kills.
-Chem grenade: Works like zealot flame grenade but can deal thousands of toxin damage with great armor pen.
-Bazooka: Nukes crushers, kills bulwarks through their shield, and is great against bosses. Also has good blast damage, effectively deletes whatever you point it at be it single targets or hordes in a respectable radius.

Aura:
(These are already known for the most part, they work how you expect. Gonna skip these.)

Ability:
-Improved desperado: Makes you extremely fast, immune to all ranged damage, highlights enemies close to you which take increased damage. Reloads do not consume ammo, 20 second duration, every kill extends the duration by 1 second, 45 second cooldown.
-Rampage: Slayer Bardin, huge boost to melee damage and attack speed for 10 seconds, hitting enemies increases duration, but once it ends you become exhausted for 7 seconds which makes you take more damage and regen less stamina, lets you go hog wild but punishes you for overextending. Easily makes melee builds powerful despite hive scum squishiness.
-Stim Supply: By default gives you a special medi-crate that gives the effect of your currently equipped stim. Can explode after its done to deal toxin damage to enemies. Biggest bonus talent gives a lingering stim effect to anyone that steps inside that lasts for 15 seconds after they leave.

Keystone:
-Adrenaline Frenzy: Melee hits and crits gives you stacks, 30 stacks gives you a huge boost to melee damage and speed that lasts for 10-15 seconds.
-Vulture's Mark: Killing specials or elites with ranged gives you stacks, each stack gives 5% to ranged crit chance and movement speed with a max of 3 stacks, while at max stacks special and elite kills gives 15% toughness to you and everyone in coherency. additional talent knocks back nearby enemies when you kill specials or elites.
-Chemical Dependency: Using stims give a stack of Dependency, each stack decreases ability cooldown by 10% with a max of 3 stacks. Encourages you to constantly use stims at all times.



Stimlab:

Mini talent tree with four split paths for four different effect types with a max of 30 points. Sim cooldowns are longer the more you spend on chem talents with a max cooldown of 75 seconds on your stims. The further you spec into one tree, the more each bonus costs, encouraging you to spec into multiple effects.

The four talent paths are:
Strength
Damage reduction and toughness regen
Weapon swap and attack speed with stamina cost reduction
Cooldown reduction


Overall for class: Glass cannon, huge damage, easy to make builds that can handle anything but it requires greater player skill than the others to not get obliterated. Stims add more build flexibility. Might get a reputation as the try-hard class like knife zealot builds did, but hive scum is actually good.
(Personal opinion, looks like a ton of fun.)

Also Ogryn get a new personality that is basically just a ganger Ogryn :)
 
Double post, but here's some gameplay clips of the hive scum.

Gunslinger showing that you can shoot without ever running out of ammo.


Mostly Shivs, but the rocket launcher shows that it can clear armor blobs as well.
 
SandyCat said:
Imo the lack of distinct characters was a mistake. After playing lots of vermintide 2 I dearly miss the superior voice lines and defined characters. Darktide feels like the voice lines are very mismatched and incredibly generic. Its very obvious it runs off a cookie cutter response system leaving most conversations feeling awkward. Half the time the responses characters give to one another make no sense

I'm assuming they went this route purely for easier cosmetic sales
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This is actually a pretty complex issue. What we're seeing with the personalities instead of defined characters is likely the result of several core redesigns and the accompanying technical debt. Originally, the game was supposed to place the players in the role of guardsmen and had a greater focus on horror and tense situations instead of the cracked out adhd simulator we have presently. Many systems were scrapped (RIP attachments) and what we saw at launch was a hasty slapjob. I don't think it's that much of a stretch to imagine part of the original vision being player created guardsmen instead of defined characters as if they were all meant to play the same, then why bother crafting unique characters. This would have also helped curtail the handful of faggots who pissed themselves if they couldn't play a particular character in a VT lobby.

Ironically, the game at launch would have been a better fit for having each class be a unique character, as the classes as they are now lend themselves far more to unique builds/playstyles with comps that easily accommodate more than one of any particular class, though that would have flown against the design ethos of the launch version of the game. Keep in mind the launch version was supposed to be an undercooked GAAS looter shooter. Overprices cosmetics are part and parcel of any GAAS and there's no reason to think that investor daddy Tencent didn't have certain requirements for how the game is supposed to be monetized. In fact, I saw a video that broke down just how the existing in game storefront is more or less copied and pasted from other Tencent-backed GAAS in game stores right down to how the fomo timer works.

If the game was released today and was developed under the present ethos, things might have been different. Cosmetic store aside, the game has moved away from the GAAS loot treadmill model and if Fatshark knew just how mush shit they were going to eat and how much damage control they were going to have to do to get them to where they are now, I think they would have done things differently. The cosmetics would still be there one way or another though.

FagDiddler said:
~snip~
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They really should have showcased gameplay earlier if for no other reason than to stomp out the lukewarm reaction. I think the class looks super fun, even if some of the animations seemed stiff (shivs, stub pistols).
 
Been skeptical of the hivescum, but after seeing the Talent tree and some gameplay I am convinced it'll actually be pretty alright.
a 30 second base cooldown ability giving you like 10-20+ seconds of infinite ammo is incredibly funny, so is the Ammo refunds on special kill giving revolvers infinite rounds and never needing to reload as long as you never miss.
Shivs have shit animations though, they need worked on.
 
Baron Reginald said:
Tencent is a majority shareholder and has been since before Darktide even came out, yeah.

Almost every game company, even indie ones, are typically majority owned by Tencent or some other large group. Is what it is.
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That explains why most games are shit now
 
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