Joshua Wise & Stephen Boyd Cryzel Torture

[redcent]

If the fix is worse than the original problem, it's not really a fix, now is it?

I could say the same about pot since smoking it (or anything really) gives you lung cancer.

It's better than no fix at all. Or do you just let people bleed to death if you see a road accident, because your second cousin once removed once had an abusive dentist?

 

[Goku]

If what it takes to help Chris is simply to cut him away from the internet altogether I'm all for it.

Just because the mental ward worked for you doesn't mean it's going to work for Chris. What worked for you will more than likely make things worse for Chris. I don't know much about Australia's mental healthcare system, but I know for a fact that the United State's mental healthcare system is complete garbage.

At this point, we have two options. Inpatient psychiatry where they will realize that it's easier to thorazine him into submission than actually rehabilitate him, or outpatient psychiatry where they will try to find out what else is wrong with him aside from autism and throw pills at it in hopes that it makes him a little bit less crazy. The fact that they're letting autistic people and people with a whole slew of mental illnesses make the decision to take HRT should be a testament to how horrible our mental healthcare system is.

 

[Mason Verger]

I could say the same about pot since smoking it (or anything really) gives you lung cancer.

It's better than no fix at all. Or do you just let people bleed to death if you see a road accident, because your second cousin once removed once had an abusive dentist?

Ah but pots all fix, noooo problem..


It's a moot point anyways, I'm pretty sure only a family member or authorized caregiver could check Chris into a hospital, not a bunch of knuckleheads on the Internet with questionable anime avatars.

Barb will never check Chris into a hospital, she's too self centered.

 

[Marvin]

It's better than no fix at all.

Sure it is. Again, if the fix is worse than the original problem, it's not really a fix.

Like sexual reassignment surgery for people who are merely gender non-conforming. That's a fix for their gender issues, but if their gender issues aren't bad enough to justify surgery, then it's quite literally an example where the fix is worse than the original problem.

Heh, actually, that's a good point. Phil got SRS. Chris probably sticks to the WPATH guidelines much better than Phil does. Chris could possibly legit get SRS.

Would that fix for Chris' gender issues be better than no fix at all?

 

[redcent]

Sure it is. Again, if the fix is worse than the original problem, it's not really a fix.

Like sexual reassignment surgery for people who are merely gender non-conforming. That's a fix for their gender issues, but if their gender issues aren't bad enough to justify surgery, then it's quite literally an example where the fix is worse than the original problem.

Heh, actually, that's a good point. Phil got SRS. Chris probably sticks to the WPATH guidelines much better than Phil does. Chris could possibly legit get SRS.

Would that fix for Chris' gender issues be better than no fix at all?

are you going to fall back on how tumblr diagnoses are bullshit to claim psychiatry is always a no no? Like the whole kit and caboodle? Like trying to fight Alzheimer's, schizophrenia, drug addiction.....

False equivalance. I guess all you know about psychiatry is the odd time one hands out srs. You want to baby sit Chris when he's off his rocker? You want to be liable when things go that far south - as people with mental issues do -you want to do this without a lick of real proper education on the matter while the whole world watches you?

Enjoy.

 

[Marvin]

are you going to fall back on how tumblr diagnoses are bullshit to claim psychiatry is always a no no? Like the whole kit and caboodle? Like trying to fight Alzheimer's, schizophrenia, drug addiction.....

False equivalance.

Why's it a false equivalence? Chris doesn't have a tumblr diagnosis. Chris was prescribed actual HRT at typical dosages by an actual doctor. ADF got a state funded neovagina, in the US. He didn't go to some sketchy mexican doctor, that was in the US.

You want to baby sit Chris when he's off his rocker? You want to be liable when things go that far south - as people with mental issues do -you want to do this without a lick of real proper education on the matter while the whole world watches you?

Enjoy.

I'm not doing anything. Our whole conversation here is theoretical.

 

[PuckishRogue]

I mean, honestly? I don't see an issue with Chris getting SRS if that's what he wants. I think the only real dangers would be in the aftermath. His piercing got infected, likely due to lack of care, and I just don't think he's got the chops to tend to something like that after the hospital releases him. Add that with the state of the house and it's a recipe for another, far more dangerous infection.

Were he in a different place, like in a little one bedroom apartment on his own with maybe a home health nurse to visit him to make sure he's keeping clean? Sure, why the fuck not? Not hurting anyone and he'd likely have to go through the whole gambit of a psych making SURE he's got dysphoria, and enough dysphoria to justify the surgery, not just "I like to wear skirts and have long hair".

 

[Nurse Ratchet]

So start caring then

In my perfect vision he gets help and conquers his problems and manages to live some life with some independence.

And I don't believe in losing hope. Giving up is not an option

Well then get off the farms, hire a realtor, give Chris a call, and then hope he shows up to get you from the airport.

 

[Marvin]

I mean, honestly? I don't see an issue with Chris getting SRS if that's what he wants. I think the only real dangers would be in the aftermath. His piercing got infected, likely due to lack of care, and I just don't think he's got the chops to tend to something like that after the hospital releases him. Add that with the state of the house and it's a recipe for another, far more dangerous infection.

Were he in a different place, like in a little one bedroom apartment on his own with maybe a home health nurse to visit him to make sure he's keeping clean? Sure, why the fuck not? Not hurting anyone and he'd likely have to go through the whole gambit of a psych making SURE he's got dysphoria, and enough dysphoria to justify the surgery, not just "I like to wear skirts and have long hair".

His piercing didn't get infected, but in general you're right, it'd be difficult to take care of.

The thing is, I'm not particularly confident the appropriate gatekeeping exists in the system anymore. I don't think psychiatrists do their homework that carefully anymore, and Phil's a great example of that.

 

[PuckishRogue]

His piercing didn't get infected, but in general you're right, it'd be difficult to take care of.

The thing is, I'm not particularly confident the appropriate gatekeeping exists in the system anymore. I don't think psychiatrists do their homework that carefully anymore, and Phil's a great example of that.

Ah, my mistake then, thanks for clearing that up.

I admit, I'm not too familiar with Phil but I can gather what that implies. I think it depends heavily on the state. :powerlevel: I've worked with a couple of people who have had SRS in my state, and I'm told it's a fairly long process:powerlevel: so it depends on the docs involved.
That said, it sounds like he got HRT without much fanfare, which doesn't speak well to how an SRS assessment would go.

 

[Mason Verger]

Well then get off the farms, hire a realtor, give Chris a call, and then hope he shows up to get you from the airport.

I think they're implying that Chris needs to get Australian treatment. Which is fine, except as Bob once mentioned, Chris doesn't have any concept to where Australia is..

The thing is, I'm not particularly confident the appropriate gatekeeping exists in the system anymore. I don't think psychiatrists do their homework that carefully anymore, and Phil's a great example of that.

That fact that Phil can get his dick gouged out purely out of spite illustrates how bad the gatekeeping truly is.

 

[Marvin]

I admit, I'm not too familiar with Phil but I can gather what that implies. I think it depends heavily on the state. :powerlevel: I've worked with a couple of people who have had SRS in my state, and I'm told it's a fairly long process:powerlevel: so it depends on the docs involved.
That said, it sounds like he got HRT without much fanfare, which doesn't speak well to how an SRS assessment would go.

https://kiwifarms.net/threads/introduction-to-adf.21155/

Oregon, so it's way more crazy than average, but still it's worrying that this would go down in the US at all. (That is, insane people getting state sanctioned and funded SRS without proper procedure. I'm OK with SRS in theory if the proper gatekeeping is in place.)

And many trans people practice doctor shopping. It's like the process for getting a medical marijuana card, but instead of weed you get castration.

 

[Dizzydent]

Chris is on disability so mental health care is covered for him. What's the worst for him is people continuing to indulge him in his fantasy life. He needs a harsh come down to reality to get him to forget all this pony and sonic nonsense and start living a real life.

That's why I don't have a huge problem with what those 2 guys did. Yeah it was bad but what he needs is a huge breakdown where he is involuntarily commited to at least a week or two of intense care where he can't access his fantasy distractions. The only way that's going to happen is if he gets pushed over the edge. I thought it would maybe happen after his TMG breakdown but he learned nothing and nobody did anything. Help for him is free and he chooses not to take it cause people just keep going "ohhh that's our Chris!" Instead of convincing him he needs serious help.

He has already proven to act in violence when he can't control himself which is often enough. Also anyone find it creepy his new "wife" is "cryzal" after he went on for over a decade about his daughter going to be named "crystal?" Like red flags everywhere. Imagine him having intense proximity with someone much younger like a daughter where he would be in control. Guys gotta be reigned in and soon.

 

[Mason Verger]

Chris is on disability so mental health care is covered for him. What's the worst for him is people continuing to indulge him in his fantasy life. He needs a harsh come down to reality to get him to forget all this pony and sonic nonsense and start living a real life.

That's why I don't have a huge problem with what those 2 guys did. Yeah it was bad but what he needs is a huge breakdown where he is involuntarily commited to at least a week or two of intense care where he can't access his fantasy distractions. The only way that's going to happen is if he gets pushed over the edge. I thought it would maybe happen after his TMG breakdown but he learned nothing and nobody did anything. Help for him is free and he chooses not to take it cause people just keep going "ohhh that's our Chris!" Instead of convincing him he needs serious help.

He has already proven to act in violence when he can't control himself which is often enough. Also anyone find it creepy his new "wife" is "cryzal" after he went on for over a decade about his daughter going to be named "crystal?" Like red flags everywhere. Imagine him having intense proximity with someone much younger like a daughter where he would be in control. Guys gotta be reigned in and soon.

The fucked up part is, despite all the truly awful shit they put him through, he fucking THANKED them the other day on twitter.
Jesus, if this thing ever does go to trial, I give it an hour before Chris is testifying for the defense.

 

[PuckishRogue]

Chris didn't need people to swindle him out of 6k or make him punch his mother, Chris needed people in his life to sit down with him and stop indulging him. If someone had sat down with him years ago he may have had a shot, and even now I'm honestly not sure if he's too far gone.

Saying that this "needed to happen" is just justifying the actions of a couple of spergs who wanted easy video games and to feel like internet cool kids.

 

[Nurse Ratchet]

Chris is on disability so mental health care is covered for him. What's the worst for him is people continuing to indulge him in his fantasy life. He needs a harsh come down to reality to get him to forget all this pony and sonic nonsense and start living a real life.

That's why I don't have a huge problem with what those 2 guys did. Yeah it was bad but what he needs is a huge breakdown where he is involuntarily commited to at least a week or two of intense care where he can't access his fantasy distractions. The only way that's going to happen is if he gets pushed over the edge. I thought it would maybe happen after his TMG breakdown but he learned nothing and nobody did anything. Help for him is free and he chooses not to take it cause people just keep going "ohhh that's our Chris!" Instead of convincing him he needs serious help.

He has already proven to act in violence when he can't control himself which is often enough. Also anyone find it creepy his new "wife" is "cryzal" after he went on for over a decade about his daughter going to be named "crystal?" Like red flags everywhere. Imagine him having intense proximity with someone much younger like a daughter where he would be in control. Guys gotta be reigned in and soon.

Are you in the United States? Mental health services are *not* automatically gifted to a person on disability by simple virtue of the fact that they're on disability.

Yes, he sucks. Few people here dispute that. And yes, he needs things he isn't getting. No contest there. No one is saying everything will be fine for him if everything stays exactly the way it is right now. But your proposal of what he needs is not just narrow, it's fucking impossible. If you deign to believe that these fucks did what they did at all, then you should be able to realize that the dumb can't even literally be beaten out of him. Then refer back to the 4th sentence of this paragraph.

But if you're in any way alright with what those horrortwats did to him, I don't even know what to say to you about that except that you need even more help than he does.

 

[Dizzydent]

No I'm not in the states but from what I've read from people is that the mentally disabled get free psychiatric and inpatient care. At least that's the way it works in my country.

And I wasn't defending everything those guys did. Like extorting people mentally unfit is wrong. But the stuff about like "talk more about Italy! And hate and yell at watermelons!" I found harmless and humorous.
And I just wanted to point out people shouldn't be engaging in his delusions but should be either disassociating with him or referring him to doctors if they really care. That's just my experience with mentally ill people. Who've been off the deep end and gotten better over time.

When people indulge him it just makes it worse even if you're just trying to make him feel better or humor him. Like people should stop playing along with him that his alternate dimensions are real cause it's destroying whatever mental health he had left.

I see it as like talking to a developmentally delayed 6 year old cause I've seen kids that age with much more sense and eventually he's gotta understand that or he's going to end up spending his life in jail or an institution.

 

[Nurse Ratchet]

I wasn't defending everything those guys did.

I don't have a huge problem with what those 2 guys did.

 

[Dizzydent]

I don't have a huge problem with what I read on the first page of this thread. There were a few things they did that were wrong and the extorting for money was way over the line but the larping about cryzel was equally both their faults for engaging the trolls on his part and him playing fantasy world. I guess I just have a tough love approach most don't agree with. I'm not going to play armchair psychiatrist about this all day. My point was like I think it's almost just as bad if people are telling him not to worry and everything in his head is real. A diligent doctor would schedule appointments every week and tell him to cut the shit out and get new hobbies every meeting. I'm not hating on him really. I would just not let the delusions carry on for anyone I really cared about

 

[TrippinKahlua]

Cryzels chest is too hairy for a woman.

Wise and Boyd sure were sick.