Cryptocurrency Lolcows

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Thanks for the mature response.

And while you are correct about how everything is computerized, let's go over the ways cryptocurrency can die electronically.

1. Your bitcoin wallet becomes unavailable due to a hard drive crash, wipe, or some other unfortunate incident.

2. The blockchain data gets corrupted at some point and at some point everyone has gobbledegook for records.

3. Your bitcoins are stolen via external or internal means, for which, unlike many real world funds, there is no insurance for.


Just these three methods of getting screwed means there are grave weaknesses in the concept.


Let's contrast to real world money:


1. Losing your IRL wallet does not necessarily mean losing all your funds, just what was in the wallet, and so long as you took the precaution of freezing your credit cards and other information contained in your IRL wallet, financial damage is minimal to nil.

If you lose your bitcoin wallets, you're screwed period.

2. IRL Financial records these days have both a paper and electronic trail, and are given all sorts of redundant backups both tangible and electronic.

Bitcoin records exist only on computers. The blockchain goes to pot, everyone who depends on the data on it is SOL.

3. There are various means of insuring your money against theft in the real world, even agencies that will reimburse you for losses if you prepared in advance. No such security exists with bitcoins. You lose them, you almost never can retrieve them.
Your points about losing your bitcoin wallet are criticisms of handling the bulk of your savings yourself, instead of a professional, insured organization like a bank. There's no reason why a bank can't secure your cryptocurrencies as well.

In regards to the blockchain getting corrupted, traditional financial institutions have weaker protections against that sort of corruption than cryptocurrencies do.
The main problem with crypto is really the immense amount of entropy it generates, outsized to its value, and often from electricity that's literally stolen off the grid by Chinese mafia types.

If we could tie it to some kind of actually useful computational purpose like protein folding that is already done with distributed computing, and somehow retain the proof-of-work mechanic, it would be a lot less inadvertently malevolent.

The problem is harder than it sounds, though.
PoW based cryptocurrencies aren't as exciting anymore for the reasons you've mentioned. Most of the new currencies are based on alternatives, albeit with weaker security guarantees.
 
Thanks for the mature response.

And while you are correct about how everything is computerized, let's go over the ways cryptocurrency can die electronically.

1. Your bitcoin wallet becomes unavailable due to a hard drive crash, wipe, or some other unfortunate incident.

2. The blockchain data gets corrupted at some point and at some point everyone has gobbledegook for records.

3. Your bitcoins are stolen via external or internal means, for which, unlike many real world funds, there is no insurance for.


Just these three methods of getting screwed means there are grave weaknesses in the concept.


Let's contrast to real world money:


1. Losing your IRL wallet does not necessarily mean losing all your funds, just what was in the wallet, and so long as you took the precaution of freezing your credit cards and other information contained in your IRL wallet, financial damage is minimal to nil.

If you lose your bitcoin wallets, you're screwed period.

2. IRL Financial records these days have both a paper and electronic trail, and are given all sorts of redundant backups both tangible and electronic.

Bitcoin records exist only on computers. The blockchain goes to pot, everyone who depends on the data on it is SOL.

3. There are various means of insuring your money against theft in the real world, even agencies that will reimburse you for losses if you prepared in advance. No such security exists with bitcoins. You lose them, you almost never can retrieve them.

Allow me to address some of these concerns.

First, there tends to be a theme of "Actually the banking system takes my money so I don't have to worry about securing it, so it's cool." Which is fine to some degree, but as a poster above said, there's nothing preventing banks from holding onto your Bitcoins or other crypto for you in case you would prefer that method. Hell, there's a crypto exchange right now, coinbase, that operates on a principle of holding your bitcoins for you because you don't want to be bothered with the process of holding your own funds. So it's a bank, as long as you trust it. It's even FDIC Insured if you keep your money in their system denoted in USD.

Plenty of people, myself included, are willing to take the risk on holding our own funds because most of us are growing tired of trusting the same banking system that caused the housing collapse in 2008, and can see the writing on the wall when you look at the economies of countries like Greece and Venezuela and think that we can't be vulnerable to the same shit.

So now to address the points individually.

And while you are correct about how everything is computerized, let's go over the ways cryptocurrency can die electronically.

1. Your bitcoin wallet becomes unavailable due to a hard drive crash, wipe, or some other unfortunate incident.
There have been many advances in the technology surrounding Bitcoin and Cryptocurrencies to defend against that. Most notably will be BIP32 and BIP39 respectively. It took me quite awhile to see how they actually work, but for Joe Blow here's what they boil down to: You don't need to actually store coins on a computer. If you can remember -- or more realistically, write down on a sheet of paper/tattoo/stainless steel and secure in any fashion you like -- between 12 to 24 randomly selected English words, you will not lose your coins due to any electronic catastrophe. Simply pull up any BIP39-compatible wallet software (and any wallet software worth the code it's written in will be BIP39-compatible) and plug in your 24 words, and boom, you're back up and running with your fully restored wallet.

2. The blockchain data gets corrupted at some point and at some point everyone has gobbledegook for records.
If you're referring to existing data getting corrupted, the fact that at least the bitcoin blockchain's data is massively distributed, and constantly checked against for corruption at all times by any full node that fires up defends against that possibility. If any one full node suddenly looks significantly different from the other full nodes, they will no longer be compatible with the network, and will be summarily rejected.

As for the possibility that something in the future will corrupt new bitcoin data or processes, and as such prevent new records being created. That, I'll grant you, given that the Segwit2x fork attempted a major change and ended up stalling out by an off-by-one error. That's a legitimate concern that people will have to be very careful of for any future changes to code, processes, or potential new DLT's that pop up with their own coins that want to unseat Bitcoin.

There is a certain amount of faith I put in Bitcoin in particular because they play very conservative when it comes to major network changes as it will help prevent problems like that, among other things.

3. Your bitcoins are stolen via external or internal means, for which, unlike many real world funds, there is no insurance for.
My answer to this will be along the lines of "an ounce of prevention". People have been learning how to secure their cryptocurrencies from theft using some genuinely interesting techniques.
  • Storing coins across multiple wallets, each with different security models. See this video by Andreas regarding how he stores his coins -- all the way from "cold storage" to daily operating cash. If one of these wallets gets compromised, it's not ALL your coins.
  • Duress Wallets, so that if you're theoretically mugged you can give someone a fake password that gives your assailant access to only a small amount of coins. Many wallets are beginning to implement "passphrase" features to facilitate this, and it's especially popular among hardware wallets. Speaking of...
  • Using dedicated hardware wallets, to prevent coin loss in the event of a hacked computer. These store your coins in a way that never touches the internet. All transactions are signed on the device itself, and thus your private keys never touch a networked computer.
  • Then you run into shit like the Glacier Protocol which is crazy and takes into account every possible way these people can conceive of in which your wallet can be compromised.
I'll be brief with your second list.

1. Losing your IRL wallet does not necessarily mean losing all your funds, just what was in the wallet, and so long as you took the precaution of freezing your credit cards and other information contained in your IRL wallet, financial damage is minimal to nil.

If you lose your bitcoin wallets, you're screwed period.

This is just reiterating, but this assumes you either store your coins in a single wallet, or in a singularly compromisable (if that's a term that makes sense) location. The fact that you have to take responsibility for securing your own liquid funds doesn't mean people aren't willing to take that responsibility, and as outlined above, people are willing to take that responsibility very seriously. Plenty of people can be, will be, and have been burned by not sufficiently being aware that coin storage is a real responsibility in the crypto space. Hopefully that lesson doesn't have to be re-learned too many more times by people.

2. IRL Financial records these days have both a paper and electronic trail, and are given all sorts of redundant backups both tangible and electronic.

Bitcoin records exist only on computers. The blockchain goes to pot, everyone who depends on the data on it is SOL.
I gave you the possible scenario of blockchain network itself becoming non-functioning in a way where new transactions cannot be made. That's legitimate to a degree. The other scenario that covers your situation is a global electronics blackout, and if that happens, then you will have much bigger issues than "Does the bank have sufficient records that I have X balance on my account?"

3. There are various means of insuring your money against theft in the real world, even agencies that will reimburse you for losses if you prepared in advance. No such security exists with bitcoins. You lose them, you almost never can retrieve them.
See the above paragraph where I mention Coinbase and the possibility of other such crypto-based institutions to exist.

If you have any other questions, I'd love to try and help answer.
 
Allow me to address some of these concerns.

First, there tends to be a theme of "Actually the banking system takes my money so I don't have to worry about securing it, so it's cool." Which is fine to some degree, but as a poster above said, there's nothing preventing banks from holding onto your Bitcoins or other crypto for you in case you would prefer that method. Hell, there's a crypto exchange right now, coinbase, that operates on a principle of holding your bitcoins for you because you don't want to be bothered with the process of holding your own funds. So it's a bank, as long as you trust it. It's even FDIC Insured if you keep your money in their system denoted in USD.

Plenty of people, myself included, are willing to take the risk on holding our own funds because most of us are growing tired of trusting the same banking system that caused the housing collapse in 2008, and can see the writing on the wall when you look at the economies of countries like Greece and Venezuela and think that we can't be vulnerable to the same shit.

So now to address the points individually.


There have been many advances in the technology surrounding Bitcoin and Cryptocurrencies to defend against that. Most notably will be BIP32 and BIP39 respectively. It took me quite awhile to see how they actually work, but for Joe Blow here's what they boil down to: You don't need to actually store coins on a computer. If you can remember -- or more realistically, write down on a sheet of paper/tattoo/stainless steel and secure in any fashion you like -- between 12 to 24 randomly selected English words, you will not lose your coins due to any electronic catastrophe. Simply pull up any BIP39-compatible wallet software (and any wallet software worth the code it's written in will be BIP39-compatible) and plug in your 24 words, and boom, you're back up and running with your fully restored wallet.


If you're referring to existing data getting corrupted, the fact that at least the bitcoin blockchain's data is massively distributed, and constantly checked against for corruption at all times by any full node that fires up defends against that possibility. If any one full node suddenly looks significantly different from the other full nodes, they will no longer be compatible with the network, and will be summarily rejected.

As for the possibility that something in the future will corrupt new bitcoin data or processes, and as such prevent new records being created. That, I'll grant you, given that the Segwit2x fork attempted a major change and ended up stalling out by an off-by-one error. That's a legitimate concern that people will have to be very careful of for any future changes to code, processes, or potential new DLT's that pop up with their own coins that want to unseat Bitcoin.

There is a certain amount of faith I put in Bitcoin in particular because they play very conservative when it comes to major network changes as it will help prevent problems like that, among other things.


My answer to this will be along the lines of "an ounce of prevention". People have been learning how to secure their cryptocurrencies from theft using some genuinely interesting techniques.
  • Storing coins across multiple wallets, each with different security models. See this video by Andreas regarding how he stores his coins -- all the way from "cold storage" to daily operating cash. If one of these wallets gets compromised, it's not ALL your coins.
  • Duress Wallets, so that if you're theoretically mugged you can give someone a fake password that gives your assailant access to only a small amount of coins. Many wallets are beginning to implement "passphrase" features to facilitate this, and it's especially popular among hardware wallets. Speaking of...
  • Using dedicated hardware wallets, to prevent coin loss in the event of a hacked computer. These store your coins in a way that never touches the internet. All transactions are signed on the device itself, and thus your private keys never touch a networked computer.
  • Then you run into shit like the Glacier Protocol which is crazy and takes into account every possible way these people can conceive of in which your wallet can be compromised.
I'll be brief with your second list.



This is just reiterating, but this assumes you either store your coins in a single wallet, or in a singularly compromisable (if that's a term that makes sense) location. The fact that you have to take responsibility for securing your own liquid funds doesn't mean people aren't willing to take that responsibility, and as outlined above, people are willing to take that responsibility very seriously. Plenty of people can be, will be, and have been burned by not sufficiently being aware that coin storage is a real responsibility in the crypto space. Hopefully that lesson doesn't have to be re-learned too many more times by people.


I gave you the possible scenario of blockchain network itself becoming non-functioning in a way where new transactions cannot be made. That's legitimate to a degree. The other scenario that covers your situation is a global electronics blackout, and if that happens, then you will have much bigger issues than "Does the bank have sufficient records that I have X balance on my account?"


See the above paragraph where I mention Coinbase and the possibility of other such crypto-based institutions to exist.

If you have any other questions, I'd love to try and help answer.

That's quite informative and I did not know about some of that at all, thanks for the response.
 
The reason I don't invest in cryptocurrencies (other than for online gambling) is that there's very few cryptos that can be used to buy things (other than Bitcoin itself, which can't even be used for all that much).

Why should I buy nerdcoin at $10 a coin? Just because it could go up? If it can't be used to buy anything, why the hell would it go up?

I have no problem with others investing their money however they want, but just be really careful and don't put all of your eggs in one basket
 
The reason I don't invest in cryptocurrencies (other than for online gambling) is that there's very few cryptos that can be used to buy things (other than Bitcoin itself, which can't even be used for all that much).

Why should I buy nerdcoin at $10 a coin? Just because it could go up? If it can't be used to buy anything, why the hell would it go up?

I have no problem with others investing their money however they want, but just be really careful and don't put all of your eggs in one basket
yeah, listen to this man. you really shouldn't invest in random coins, then you get the BCC bitcoinconnect situation where it's all a ponzi scheme meant to trick people into valuing something, selling all your stock to get rich, then watching as other investors piss away their money because someone told them that their stock would be a trillion dollars per

and besides, people really shouldn't be putting all their savings and mortgaging their house in one stock. If you win, then you get more money. if you lose, you're in crippling debt for the rest of your life
 
My rule of thumb: "Is a DLT/Blockchain ACTUALLY necessary here?"

If a DLT would help, is a token necessary?

You would -- or you maybe wouldn't, I dunno -- be surprised how many ICO's just completely fail that test.

For my purposes I've been sticking to BTC, LTC, and ETH.
 
My rule of thumb: "Is a DLT/Blockchain ACTUALLY necessary here?"

If a DLT would help, is a token necessary?

You would -- or you maybe wouldn't, I dunno -- be surprised how many ICO's just completely fail that test.

For my purposes I've been sticking to BTC, LTC, and ETH.
Without XMR how are you supposed to deposit BTC to your darknet market wallet? :thinking:
 
https://twitter.com/laurashin/status/967945085118595072 (https://archive.fo/vZKXb)
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You might want to check out @LukeDashjr (Twitter handle). He's actually a fairly brilliant coder and developer, but has some extremely spergy interests. For instance, he wanted to develop something called Tonal Bitcoin, which used an ancient base-16 notation invented and abandoned in the 19th Century by an eccentric. He founded the Eligius mining pool (named after the same Catholic saint as the one the hospital in St. Elsewhere was named after) and is fairly astoundingly autistic. Despite this, he's married with six children.

I'm not sure he's a lolcow, because while he often takes positions in which he's in the minority and appears just to be being contrarian, he also often turns out to be right in the long run.
 
the article isn't worth the click
View attachment 400887

I love when faggots like this say idiot shit like "we need to shut down" some shit they have no power to shut down.

Bring it bitch! Do it! Come on! I dare you you fucking pussy!



To Paul Merrion: μολὼν λαβέ

Come, take.
 
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