Consoomers / Consoomer Culture - Because if it has a recogniseable brand on it, I’d buy it!

[Lapis Lazuli]

The idea that Pokémon being for children means it doesn't have to be good is ludicrous. There have been plenty of franchises that are marketed towards younger audiences, but still manage to deliver a quality product.

Nintendo's other "kid friendly" franchises, such as Super Mario and Kirby, can still deliever a quality product, why has Pokémon been stagnating in comparison?

 

[whitepumpkin]

Game Boy games cost $30 in the 1990s, which is $60 in today's money...right about the cost of a Switch game today.

Switch games are a lot more expensive in my country, so I can see for Americans it isn't that much, but they're $20 more here. Even the Gameboy games in the 90s were pretty expensive at $40-$50 a pop. So I guess I'm coming at this from a different perspective.

 

[Syikeblade]

The idea that Pokémon being for children means it doesn't have to be good is ludicrous. There have been plenty of franchises that are marketed towards younger audiences, but still manage to deliver a quality product.

Nintendo's other "kid friendly" franchises, such as Super Mario and Kirby, can still deliever a quality product, why has Pokémon been stagnating in comparison?

I thinks it's part ignorance in making 3D games and the Pokemon Company giving them a shorter development time.

 

[The Ugly One]

Switch games are a lot more expensive in my country, so I can see for Americans it isn't that much, but they're $20 more here. Even the Gameboy games in the 90s were pretty expensive at $40-$50 a pop. So I guess I'm coming at this from a different perspective.
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$40-$50 in 1996 = $70-$88 today. So I think the point still stands, there's nothing about the price that makes Pokemon less accessible to kids now than it was then.

 

[The Ugly One]

3The idea that Pokémon being for children means it doesn't have to be good is ludicrous. There have been plenty of franchises that are marketed towards younger audiences, but still manage to deliver a quality product.

Nintendo's other "kid friendly" franchises, such as Super Mario and Kirby, can still deliever a quality product, why has Pokémon been stagnating in comparison?

The sales numbers say the opposite: you don't have to live up to an adult's notion of quality for kids to eat up your product to the tune of 20+ million a pop.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

the best compromise for older fans would be Pokemon having a difficulty selector ala Fire Emblem.

 

[Raging Capybara]

The idea that Pokémon being for children means it doesn't have to be good is ludicrous. There have been plenty of franchises that are marketed towards younger audiences, but still manage to deliver a quality product.

Nintendo's other "kid friendly" franchises, such as Super Mario and Kirby, can still deliever a quality product, why has Pokémon been stagnating in comparison?

These games are good just because Nintendo wants them to be. If Mario or Zelda were big piles of garbage it would still sell well. We are lucky Nintendo still gives a shit for at least some of their properties.

Look at Sanic, this franchise has been mercilessly punished by Sega for decades and it's still kicking. Kids are too dumb.

 

[Gar For Archer]

These games are good just because Nintendo wants them to be. If Mario or Zelda were big piles of garbage it would still sell well. We are lucky Nintendo still gives a shit for at least some of their properties.

Look at Sanic, this franchise has been mercilessly punished by Sega for decades and it's still kicking. Kids are too dumb.

The difference is Nintendo doesn’t make the Pokémon games and probably doesn’t even have the authority to yank it from Gamefreak, since Pokemon is co-owned, not licensed out.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Nintendo's other "kid friendly" franchises, such as Super Mario and Kirby, can still deliever a quality product, why has Pokémon been stagnating in comparison?

Firstly a lack of competition is a serious factor, literally any monster tamer game that gets released is immediately labeled as a "Pokemon clone" despite the fact that Pokemon itself was not even close to being the first game in it's genre, it's just become so popular that it's become synomynous with the genre as a whole.

Second is merchandising, Pokemon is literally the most profitable franchise on earth and only a very miniscule amount of that profit is produced by the video games. Game Freak and Nintendo have bigger fish to fry.

Thirdly is that Game Freak has always been shit at programming, specifically at optimizing their code. Look back on the programming of the first four or so generations and you will quickly realize that those games were essentially held together by chewing gum and happy thoughts. This problem is further compounded by the National Dex and will only become exponentially worse as they keep releasing new regions.

Fourthly is the fact that they are Japanese. The Japanese are many things but a few things that they are not include being quick to change and listening to customer feedback particularly in western markets.

Fifthly is that Pokemon diehards and Nintendrones refuse at any level to admit that the game isn't good and will vehemently defend both corporations like the good little piggies they are. Don't call it a grave, it's the future you chose.

I'll drop a link to a really good video that goes into much more detail on this but those are the important points in brief.

Spoiler: Advanced Autism

Spoiler: No seriously, this is a four hour video

EDIT: Fixed up some spelling.

 

[Moguro Fukuzou]

I'm honestly considering next year to just make everyone a jar of jam and a Christmas card and if they don't like it, then fuck them, I'll eat the jam and give the Christmas card to someone else.

Something I've noticed is that I've grown far more appreciative of Christmas gifts that would be considered rather boring by gift giving standards, it's interesting to notice the shift from wanting to get all the shiny new toys into wanting more practical things. Think it's a natural thing that comes with growing into an adult, not to say that I've entirely shifted away from liking to get those 'shiny toy' items it's just they feel more specialized if that makes sense? Like someone buying me a movie they'd think I'd like, a book on a topic I'm interested in, or literally any gunpla kit (fun is in the build). All of those show that the person actual took the time to think about what would best suit me, even if in the end they aren't my favorite the thought put into them makes it special. Feels more in the spirit of the season then the cosoomerist nightmare its evolved into over time with people just showing off how much they've gotten or how much they've spent.

The idea of someone spending the time to make jam, especially if they've made a special Christmas blend or even just made my favorite kind, shows that they put a lot more thought into planning out a gift than throwing me a gift card or something that has nothing to do with my interests but is marketed as a 'popular' gift item.

These games are good just because Nintendo wants them to be. If Mario or Zelda were big piles of garbage it would still sell well. We are lucky Nintendo still gives a shit for at least some of their properties.

Look at Sanic, this franchise has been mercilessly punished by Sega for decades and it's still kicking. Kids are too dumb.

Think one of the things that both Mario and Zelda have going for them is that both franchises have experimented to keep it fresh. I remember Mario getting a lot of praise for Odyssey or Mario Maker and Zelda getting similar for BOTW (maybe also windwalker? don't really play Zelda). There's at least an attempt to try new things out or experiment. Pokemon on the other hand has been coasting for a while, it does experiment with new things but never seems to keep them around, while also slacking in key areas like the story. Mega evolutions were a great experiment to see if they could make old pokemon competitive, yet they scrapped it? Black and White are held up as having a great story, but I don't really know which other games in the series (besides some mystery dungeon) get any praise, many are just serviceable.

Firstly a lack of competition is a serious factor, literally any monster tamer game that gets released is immediately labeled as a "Pokemon clone" despite the fact that Pokemon itself was not even close to being the first game in it's genre, it's just become so popular that it's become synomynous with the genre as a whole.

I've always hated how Digimon just gets labelled as a Pokemon ripoff, when I've always found it to just be the better franchise of the two. I'm glad that Digimon seems to be making a resurgence in the West, devs seem to care more about their fans too.

Digimon designs might get silly at times, but they're at least fun and haven't gotten as boring as Pokemon has outside of a few good designs. Also, last I checked Digimon has a kiwi rep while Pokemon has nothing so that's another reason to like Digimon more.

 

[Solid Snek]

The only thing I know about Pokemon games is this: the guys from Red Letter Media used to have a gamer channel, Previously Recorded. Rich Evans did a live, blind play of an old Pokemon game. His cohost, Jack, told him that Pokemon was a deceptively complicated game, which required strategies and problem solving. Rich said it was a game for babies, and he'd win easily without learning any of the mechanics.

So Rich resolved used only one Pokemon, and did the same move, over and over again.

tl;dw I'm not sure what people expect out of an *ideal* Pokemon game. It's just Pokemon. You collect cute animals and you show them to your friends.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

The only thing I know about Pokemon games is this: the guys from Red Letter Media used to have a gamer channel, Previously Recorded. Rich Evans did a live, blind play of an old Pokemon game. His cohost, Jack, told him that Pokemon was a deceptively complicated game, which required strategies and problem solving. Rich said it was a game for babies, and he'd win easily without learning any of the mechanics.

So Rich resolved used only one Pokemon, and did the same move, over and over again.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=eZQtia9ZyyQ
tl;dw I'm not sure what people expect out of an *ideal* Pokemon game. It's just Pokemon. You collect cute animals and you show them to your friends.

Once again, the single player game is super easy babby mode, I'm talking about competitive play where you actually have to learn the game. Honestly all they'd have to add is multiple difficulty modes and that would more or less solve the difficulty problem.

 

[The Ugly One]

These games are good just because Nintendo wants them to be. If Mario or Zelda were big piles of garbage it would still sell well. We are lucky Nintendo still gives a shit for at least some of their properties.

Look at Sanic, this franchise has been mercilessly punished by Sega for decades and it's still kicking. Kids are too dumb.

I played this game called Depth Dwellers endlessly when I was a kid, never realizing it was a pile of dog crap.

 

[Vingle]

We are lucky Nintendo still gives a shit for at least some of their properties.

Said like a true consoomer.

 

[Leaf-eon]

Once again, the single player game is super easy babby mode, I'm talking about competitive play where you actually have to learn the game. Honestly all they'd have to add is multiple difficulty modes and that would more or less solve the difficulty problem.

Black2 and White2 had challenge mode but you had to beat the game first in order to unlock it.

 

[notepad]

Once again, the single player game is super easy babby mode, I'm talking about competitive play where you actually have to learn the game. Honestly all they'd have to add is multiple difficulty modes and that would more or less solve the difficulty problem.

There's already a rom hack (Pokemon Unbound) with that feature and there's even a light or edgy story toggle, so it's not like it's that big of a challenge balance wise just laziness to innovate beyond what is profitable.

• Vanilla: More in line with official game difficulty. Play this if you like over leveling or just want to play a game without worrying too much about the battles.
• Difficult: You're looking for something slightly harder than default Pokémon games, and don't mind losing boss battles once or twice to force you to rethink your strategy with the same team.
• Expert: If you're running a fully EV trained team, this is probably going to be as hard as Difficult early on. You also probably won't need to change up your team in between major battles. Late game will get harder, though, but still nowhere near as hard as Insane.
• Insane: This should be the hardest hack you've ever played. Period. Items can't be used in Trainer battles, and bosses all have a team with competitive movesets and full EVs. If you're ready to rage quit after the first Gym, this difficulty is NOT for you. It was designed to be inherently unfun for most players.
https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=382178

Also pokemon clover has some pretty interesting/funny pokemon design so I would recommend it if anyone is too bored with the mainline games.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

I was never much into romhacks but I'll take a look.

 

[Gar For Archer]

There's already a rom hack (Pokemon Unbound) with that feature and there's even a light or edgy story toggle, so it's not like it's that big of a challenge balance wise just laziness to innovate beyond what is profitable.

• Vanilla: More in line with official game difficulty. Play this if you like over leveling or just want to play a game without worrying too much about the battles.
• Difficult: You're looking for something slightly harder than default Pokémon games, and don't mind losing boss battles once or twice to force you to rethink your strategy with the same team.
• Expert: If you're running a fully EV trained team, this is probably going to be as hard as Difficult early on. You also probably won't need to change up your team in between major battles. Late game will get harder, though, but still nowhere near as hard as Insane.
• Insane: This should be the hardest hack you've ever played. Period. Items can't be used in Trainer battles, and bosses all have a team with competitive movesets and full EVs. If you're ready to rage quit after the first Gym, this difficulty is NOT for you. It was designed to be inherently unfun for most players.
https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=382178

Also pokemon clover has some pretty interesting/funny pokemon design so I would recommend it if anyone is too bored with the mainline games.

I think the main issue with increasing difficulty is that actually training up Pokemon is an grindy, unfun slog. The game simply isn’t built around having you level up 10+ Pokémon to a sufficiently high level so that you have a wide variety of fighters to pick from. If you’re increasing the difficulty by requiring more thoughtful team composition, you also need to make it significantly easier for players to level up their Pokémon.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

I think the main issue with increasing difficulty is that actually training up Pokemon is an grindy, unfun slog. The game simply isn’t built around having you level up 10+ Pokémon to a sufficiently high level so that you have a wide variety of fighters to pick from. If you’re increasing the difficulty by requiring more thoughtful team composition, you also need to make it significantly easier for players to level up their Pokémon.

Funny you should say that because they did that exact thing in gens 6-7 by making the exp share work differently and in gen 8 they just baked it right into the game so that it's always on.

 

[Gar For Archer]

Funny you should say that because they did that exact thing in gens 6-7 by making the exp share work differently and in gen 8 they just baked it right into the game so that it's always on.

This + add an easy way to re-learn level up moves (like, an NPC in each town…) + scaling the level of wild Pokémon with your badges (…is this something that happens already?) so that you can go back to earlier routes to catch a Pokémon you need without having to train it up 20 levels would make it much more fun. Yes, I get that “Pokémon training” is part of the game, but grinding to level up your Pokémon has never been fun, unless you are a literal child who actually finds enjoyment in performing the same task over and over for hours on end.