#Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
NasserRabadi13 said:
$12 for shipping? It cost $2.66 to ship a copy of trixie, and $0.55 for the gemini.

We've got the expenses here from Donal himself:
View attachment 1641391
I made $3,000 profit on $16,000 from Stardust, and $6,000 from $23,000 on Trixie. At $39,000 I'm owed at LEAST $5,000.
View attachment 1641394
Click to expand...
Donal's talking out of his ass there in 2018. He's never done this.

But he's done it now. Virtually all by himself. You didn't help him with anything.

Now let me help you to understand. Donal is saying there that it's "gonna be like $600 for a letterer and less than $3000 for a colorist".

That's $3600 set aside to pay to MAKE the book. Letters and colors.

What if Donal decided to do the letters and colors himself? Is he supposed to now SPLIT that $3600 with you, or is that his money?

He hired himself to draw the book, which was a job that needed doing in the production of the comic book, and I don't know what his rate is. I lowballed him like a motherfucker. I think he's worth much more.

I'd say $4800 is unfair to him.

Edit: You flagged this as "Dumb" when it's the most reasonable thing in the world. You guys might need to go to court! I can't wait!
 
Last edited:
FROG said:
Donal's talking out of his ass there in 2018. He's never done this.

But he's done it now. Virtually all by himself. You didn't help him with anything.

Now let me help you to understand. Donal is saying there that it's "gonna be like $600 for a letterer and less than $3000 for a colorist".

That's $3600 set aside to pay to MAKE the book. Letters and colors.

What if Donal decided to do the letters and colors himself? Is he supposed to now SPLIT that $3600 with you, or is that his money?

He hired himself to draw the book, which was a job that needed doing in the production of the comic book, and I don't know what his rate is. I lowballed him like a motherfucker. I think he's worth much more.

I'd say $4800 is unfair to him.
Click to expand...
Well he didnt hire himself, we never said he gets a rate. We repeatedly said it was a collaboration, we each get 50%.

If it's $3,600 that's roughly $32,000 after indiegogo fees.

If printing is $2000, that's $30,000.

Let's take our $500 for Huerta. $550 for 1000 geminis. $29,000. Trading cards and bags and boards only a few hundred bucks, let's call it $700.

$28,300. That's the shipping budget.

Let's say out of 1,100 packages, well, Trixie was $2.66 so let's round to $3.00. That's $3300. Some of those are international, let's add on another $2,000 to bring it to $5,300.

$28,300 minus $5,300 is $23,000.

$23,000 in half is $11,500 each.
 
NasserRabadi13 said:
Well he didnt hire himself, we never said he gets a rate. We repeatedly said it was a collaboration, we each get 50%.

If it's $3,600 that's roughly $32,000 after indiegogo fees.

If printing is $2000, that's $30,000.

Let's take our $500 for Huerta. $550 for 1000 geminis. $29,000. Trading cards and bags and boards only a few hundred bucks, let's call it $700.

$28,300. That's the shipping budget.

Let's say out of 1,100 packages, well, Trixie was $2.66 so let's round to $3.00. That's $3300. Some of those are international, let's add on another $2,000 to bring it to $5,300.

$28,300 minus $5,300 is $23,000.

$23,000 in half is $11,500 each.
Click to expand...

That's great that you consider drawing 48 pages to not count towards the production of the book, but it won't hold up in court.

Donal can say he gets $200 a page and that's still too low for pencils and inks.

Someone has to DRAW the book. You both managed the project together, and you're sharing the sales profits, not his work for hire wages, you nitwit.


SaidNoOneEver said:
What's a fair rate for a writer? Serious question, I have no clue.
Click to expand...

I'd be okay overpaying Nasser $1000 for his 48 page script.
 
FROG said:
That's great that you consider drawing 48 pages to not count towards the production of the book, but it won't hold up in court.

Donal can say he gets $200 a page and that's still too low for pencils and inks.

Someone has to DRAW the book. You both managed the project together, and you're sharing the sales profits, not his work for hire wages, you nitwit.




I'd be okay overpaying Nasser $1000 for his 48 page script.
Click to expand...
You're making up rates that were never in our agreement and you completely ignored my math.
 
FROG said:
I'd be okay overpaying Nasser $1000 for his 48 page script.
Click to expand...

As an impartial* observer to this clusterfuck it seems to me the arrangement was more of a partnership. Nasser contributes the story/script, Donal contributes the drawings. I believe that's how a court would see it.

Whatever outside hired help there is would come off the top before the split (color, letters, etc). As partners their pay would be a share of the profits after costs. The only outlier is the labor involved with shipping that Nasser contributed zero for but from Donal's account it sounds like he hired that out too so that cost would be split off the top as well.

* imaprtial in the sense that I have no clue about the numbers in this world but do believe Nasser is owed (despite being a Jackass).
 
SaidNoOneEver said:
As an impartial* observer to this clusterfuck it seems to me the arrangement was more of a partnership. Nasser contributes the story/script, Donal contributes the drawings. I believe that's how a court would see it.

Whatever outside hired help there is would come off the top before the split (color, letters, etc). As partners their pay would be a share of the profits after costs. The only outlier is the labor involved with shipping that Nasser contributed zero for but from Donal's account it sounds like he hired that out too so that cost would be split off the top as well.

* imaprtial in the sense that I have no clue about the numbers in this world but do believe Nasser is owed (despite being a Jackass).
Click to expand...

Well, I disagree.

An impartial observer would view this as two guys going into business together making a comic book. No different from making a widget.

They're splitting profits.

The labor involved in making a comic book isn't equal. Letters, colors, writing, and drawing are all different levels of complexity and time consumption, which is why they all pay differently.

If Donal had said, "I've changed my mind, I'm not drawing this book, let's hire an artist instead" you'd quickly see that the budget had money in it to pay one.

If they WERE making widgets, and Donal got on the assembly line in addition to managing the company, he'd be entitled to a salary as a worker as well as his share of the profits.

The budget should provide a salary for the script (which probably took five minutes to write) and the 48 pages of art, (which probably took several months to produce.)

After that is established, what's left over is what's split evenly between them.
 
FROG said:
Well, I disagree.

An impartial observer would view this as two guys going into business together making a comic book. No different from making a widget.

They're splitting profits.

The labor involved in making a comic book isn't equal. Letters, colors, writing, and drawing are all different levels of complexity and time consumption, which is why they all pay differently.

If Donal had said, "I've changed my mind, I'm not drawing this book, let's hire an artist instead" you'd quickly see that the budget had money in it to pay one.

If they WERE making widgets, and Donal got on the assembly line in addition to managing the company, he'd be entitled to a salary as a worker as well as his share of the profits.

The budget should provide a salary for the script (which probably took five minutes to write) and the 48 pages of art, (which probably took several months to produce.)

After that is established, what's left over is what's split evenly between them.
Click to expand...
You keep making stuff up that you know was not part of the agreement.
 
FROG said:
Well, I disagree.

An impartial observer would view this as two guys going into business together making a comic book. No different from making a widget.

They're splitting profits.

The labor involved in making a comic book isn't equal. Letters, colors, writing, and drawing are all different levels of complexity and time consumption, which is why they all pay differently.

If Donal had said, "I've changed my mind, I'm not drawing this book, let's hire an artist instead" you'd quickly see that the budget had money in it to pay one.

If they WERE making widgets, and Donal got on the assembly line in addition to managing the company, he'd be entitled to a salary as a worker as well as his share of the profits.

The budget should provide a salary for the script (which probably took five minutes to write) and the 48 pages of art, (which probably took several months to produce.)

After that is established, what's left over is what's split evenly between them.
Click to expand...
Two guys going into business together each bring something to the table that the other doesn't, otherwise they would each go it alone. That's a partnership.

Nasser brought the character and story, Donal brought the drawing. I would argue that the character/story part is the harder, more valuable of the two. It seems to me that if I were a creator it would be a lot easier to hire someone to draw my character/story than it would be for me to hire a creator to invent a character/story that I would then draw as an artist. Subjective, I know, but I have a hard time believing the opposite which is what you seem to be arguing.

Another thing that I left out of my last post would be administrative costs that would favor Donal. After all, once Nasser walked Donal was on his own hiring the contractors, approving/rejecting their submissions and editing the final product. That should probably be a labor fee for Donal since the initial agreement implies they would share that burdon.

If they WERE making widgets, and Donal got on the assembly line in addition to managing the company, he'd be entitled to a salary as a worker as well as his share of the profits.
Click to expand...

Poor analogy. The only way that works is if only one party brings labor while the other only brings capital. The person bringing the labor would likely command a wage as well as a lessor portion of the profits while the one providing the capital only receives a larger share of the profits. Those are usually much more complicated arrangements that defintely require written contracts. Even in your anology Nasser's character/story is labor. Their stupid agreement implies a 50/50 split regardless if you or I value one more than the other. Their implicit "agreement" values each equally.

EDIT: Also, Nasser surrendered his half of the IP going forward. That's got to be worth something. There will be sequels.
 
Last edited:
Neither one of them established a rate upon making this agreement. Ethan would no doubt have set it up like a seasoned pro, but these guys were just starting out. Frogtongue is trying to renegotiate Donal & Nasser's arrangement so that Donal gets more than 50%. Go stick that tongue back up someone else's cloaca.
 
FROG said:
It IS 50/50 down the middle. OF THE PROFITS.

Why does this escape you? Donal's LABOR is not YOUR PROFIT.
Click to expand...
That was never a cost. Both of our labors were the 50-50 split.

SaidNoOneEver said:
Two guys going into business together each bring something to the table that the other doesn't, otherwise they would each go it alone. That's a partnership.

Nasser brought the character and story, Donal brought the drawing. I would argue that the character/story part is the harder, more valuable of the two. It seems to me that if I were a creator it would be a lot easier to hire someone to draw my character/story than it would be for me to hire a creator to invent a character/story that I would then draw as an artist. Subjective, I know, but I have a hard time believing the opposite which is what you seem to be arguing.

Another thing that I left out of my last post would be administrative costs that would favor Donal. After all, once Nasser walked Donal was on his own hiring the contractors, approving/rejecting their submissions and editing the final product. That should probably be a labor fee for Donal since the initial agreement implies they would share that burdon.
Click to expand...
Donal did not include me in the decision of who we hired. One day I woke up and he had hired Eric Weathers to letter. He never ran it by me (Eric does a good job tho, I'm not complaining). No extra duties were added to Donal though.
 
SaidNoOneEver said:
Two guys going into business together each bring something to the table that the other doesn't, otherwise they would each go it alone. That's a partnership.

Nasser brought the character and story, Donal brought the drawing. I would argue that the character/story part is the harder, more valuable of the two. It seems to me that if I were a creator it would be a lot easier to hire someone to draw my character/story than it would be for me to hire a creator to invent a character/story that I would then draw as an artist. Subjective, I know, but I have a hard time believing the opposite which is what you seem to be arguing.

Another thing that I left out of my last post would be administrative costs that would favor Donal. After all, once Nasser walked Donal was on his own hiring the contractors, approving/rejecting their submissions and editing the final product. That should probably be a labor fee for Donal since the initial agreement implies they would share that burdon.
Click to expand...
I agree that Donal should make even more money, because he pulled all of this together in spite of Nasser.

The profit sharing is in SALES OF THE COMIC. Nasser doesn't get to dip his fingers into Donal's wages for producing the work that sold.

Their names both sold the comic (or didn't sell the comic) evenly. So after production costs are factored, (including the cost of labor for DRAWING the comic) what's left over is what is evenly
split.

Nasser is literally trying to steal from Donal here. It's pretty outrageous.

NasserRabadi13 said:
That was never a cost. Both of our labors were the 50-50 split.
Click to expand...

You are really, really stupid. Or greedy. Or both.

So if Donal had just let Andrew Huerta draw the entire book, that sure would have sucked for you, right? You'd have to pay HIM.

But not Donal. Donal works for free!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
FROG said:
You are really, really stupid. Or greedy. Or both.

So if Donal had just let Andrew Huerta draw the entire book, that sure would have sucked for you, right? You'd have to pay HIM.

But not Donal. Donal works for free!
Click to expand...
What part of a page rate was not an expense and that everything was a 50-50 split do you not understand?
 
NasserRabadi13 said:
What part of a page rate was not an expense and that everything was a 50-50 split do you not understand?
Click to expand...

The part where I don't see that in writing and it doesn't make ANY sense at all. Nobody works like that.

You feel good stealing from Donal's hard work? $3500 isn't enough of a pay day for you for one shitty script?
 
FROG said:
The part where I don't see that in writing and it doesn't make ANY sense at all. Nobody works like that.

You feel good stealing from Donal's hard work? $3500 isn't enough of a pay day for you for one shitty script?
Click to expand...
$3500? I havent even seen one cent. $5,000 would be fair for the multiple drafts of 4 issues I wrote, and for all the connections I used to promote the book.
 
FROG said:
I agree that Donal should make even more money, because he pulled all of this together in spite of Nasser.

The profit sharing is in SALES OF THE COMIC. Nasser doesn't get to dip his fingers into Donal's wages for producing the work that sold.

Their names both sold the comic (or didn't sell the comic) evenly. So after production costs are factored, (including the cost of labor for DRAWING the comic) what's left over is what is evenly
split.

Nasser is literally trying to steal from Donal here. It's pretty outrageous.
Click to expand...
I can't tell if you're joking or not. You completely ignore the labor involved with creating the characters and story. How much would it have cost you to hire someone to invent Cyberfrog, the other characters and their story for you to just draw? How much would you have charged an artist to invent that for them to draw and own forever? Isn't that what you did for the big comics companies? Invent characters that others drew and the companies ended up owning? You were paid for that, right? You still get checks for creating those characters in the form of royalties.

Tonights stream was Shane Davis and his wife. I might be wrong but didn't his wife invent the characters/story that he drew (with some shared work on the story)? Which one is paying themselves a separate fee before splitting profits?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom