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...How was Civil War Conservative themed? Iron Man and the Pro Reg heroes were outright vilified in that story.
#Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!
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Marvel has (and to this day) stated upfront that Iron Man and friends were the good guys and Captain America was the bad guy for opposing registration. And that the stories that had Tony as villain (IE anything written by J. Michael Straczynski for the XOver) were written by writers who went rogue and ignoring the editorial mandate (and only got away with it, because editorial had not done a huge fucking crossover on the scale of Civil War since Onslaught in 1996 and didn't expect people like Straczynski to rebel like they did). It's one of the reasons why a lot of people believed that Hydra Cap was done EXPLICITLY as a "fuck you" to fans who supported Cap in Civil War (by turning Cap into a LITERAL Nazi) and why Hickman's Avengers and Fantastic Four runs were crammed full of "Tony was right" crap (to the point of Hickman making canon that not only Tony was "right" in every universe Civil War happened in, but also establishing that the only reason WHY anything bad happened, was that Reed was too passive and that had Reed taken a far more active role in browbeating Cap into submission, Cap would have bent the knee to Tony before any bloodshed happened).
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Ma Wang
kiwifarms.net
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- May 10, 2019
I never understood how pro reg was supposed to be the "conservative" side. The parallels between superpowers being limited to government sanctioned actors, and the push for gun rights to be restricted to the police and military seemed obvious to me.
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- May 3, 2019
Civil War was released at the height of the War on Terror and the Pro Reg side had strong parallels to Bush II's polices at the time.
Ma Wang
kiwifarms.net
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- May 10, 2019
I have my own issues with the surveillance culture that the Patriot Act engendered, but what Bush policy did the Superhuman Registration Act closely parallel. Hell, Bush didn't even bring back the draft.
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- Jun 4, 2018
Civil War had so many weird problems from the get go, it says a lot that the MCU version made more sense from a storytelling standpoint.
A superhero team supposedly composed of 'newbies' but 3/4 of which was made up of characters who should have had considerable experience (the New Warriors had been around a while).
A supervillain who suddenly displayed a considerable boost in powers and caught everyone by surprise, but no one seemed very curious about it.
Any superpowered individual who refused to register got carted off to a Negative Zone prison, no trial.
Superpowered individuals who did register were under obligation to serve with SHIELD.
Iron Man's characterization varied wildly between 'if I'm in charge maybe I can derail the worst of this' to 'I'm Inspector Javert cosplaying as Iron Man'.
Several ruthless supervillains being drafted into a strike squad to hunt unregistered heroes. This included Bullseye, and the only reason THAT didn't get bitched about more was because it ended VERY badly for Bullseye indeed.
Editorial definitely did not have a good lock on things, judging from how Iron Man got treated in the post-CW Thor relaunch (Thor beat his ass, just completely spanked him).
A superhero team supposedly composed of 'newbies' but 3/4 of which was made up of characters who should have had considerable experience (the New Warriors had been around a while).
A supervillain who suddenly displayed a considerable boost in powers and caught everyone by surprise, but no one seemed very curious about it.
Any superpowered individual who refused to register got carted off to a Negative Zone prison, no trial.
Superpowered individuals who did register were under obligation to serve with SHIELD.
Iron Man's characterization varied wildly between 'if I'm in charge maybe I can derail the worst of this' to 'I'm Inspector Javert cosplaying as Iron Man'.
Several ruthless supervillains being drafted into a strike squad to hunt unregistered heroes. This included Bullseye, and the only reason THAT didn't get bitched about more was because it ended VERY badly for Bullseye indeed.
Editorial definitely did not have a good lock on things, judging from how Iron Man got treated in the post-CW Thor relaunch (Thor beat his ass, just completely spanked him).
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- May 3, 2019
The surrendering of personal liberties in the name of security that occurred after a superhuman terrorist attack very strongly resembles America post 9/11.
Ma Wang
kiwifarms.net
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- May 10, 2019
If they had left it at forcing superhumans to dox themselves I could see the link, but how it played out seems more out of the Eric Swalwell or Beto O'Rourke playbook.
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- Oct 10, 2019
Did LNC get banned lol?
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- Mar 9, 2019
Yup. He annoyed the mods for baiting, as in he promised info but never delivered.
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- Jun 4, 2018
It doesn't pay to be a cocktease. Especially if you're the cock.
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- Feb 19, 2018
I still don't know how this page got past editorial. Reading Civil War all at once made the weird conflict between the writers really clear.
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- Jun 4, 2018
What stunned me about IM getting owned by Thor was, once again, Tony Stark being written as a complete fucking moron.
I still don't know how this page got past editorial. Reading Civil War all at once made the weird conflict between the writers really clear.
Picking a fight with Thor? A guy you know is not just billy badass, but the guy you cloned for the express purpose of having an extra heavy hitter?
Christ, the dialogue itself is insane. Tony is walking around Thor like some kind of two bit supervillain trying to intimidate him. Trying. To. Intimidate. Thor.
(For reference: this whole foorah is in issue #3 of the 2007 Thor run. It also includes a bit of hilarity as when a survivor of New Orleans demands to know why Thor hadn't been there to save the city, Thor replies, 'I was dead'.)
And people wonder why comics aren't selling as well.
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- May 3, 2019
Civil War fucked everything up so bad they had to do the Skrull Invasion story line to fix it.
Makes me wonder what event they'll do to fix the SJW shit when that burns out next decade.
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- Aug 7, 2018
The chief problem with Civil War is that it's pretty much a well established cause=effect issue that registration=super-hero genocide in the Marvel Universe. The Mutant Registration Act (the previous incarnation of the SHRA from Civil War) was a massive plot device in the X-Men books about it being one of the inciting events/fixed points in history in all of the timelines where the Sentinels enslave the planet and kill all super powered beings, mutants in particular. If registration happens? Then you're fucked because Sentinels are coming no matter what you say and do, with relations to registration being the first domino to fall that leads to ruin and carnage.
Furthermore, it goes against Iron Man and Reed Richards' own established histories that they would bend over and spread their asscheeks like they did. Stark is a known contrarian who has ragequit the Avengers for less and has a long history of refusing to be made the government's bitch (to the point of threatening full-on war with SHIELD at one point over them trying a hostile take-over of Stark's business to get his Iron Man tech). Not to mention Reed himself personally KILLING the Mutant Registration Act by going before Congress and telling them point blank how retarded the idea was and how registering ALL known super-heroes would be an endless headache even IF people agreed to do so back in the Walt Simonson run of Fantastic Four.
It was a classic example of Millar basically throwing out all known characteristics to tell a story he wanted to tell (damn the actual reader), complete with him causing irrevocably damage to Iron Man and Captain America by literally recasting them as Batman vs Superman, in terms of taking two characters who have minor scraps in the past but who ultimately would do anything for the other, and turning them into Batman and Superman clones that secretly hate the other's guts and would betray them in a heartbeat if they could get away with it.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did you actually READ Secret Invasion?
Not only did they NOT use Skrulls to fix Civil War (or Avengers Disassembled, or any of the other stories in the lead-up to Civil War fans hated) but they fucking went out of their way to ATTACK fans who were begging them to use Skrulls to fix the shit they broke to spite fans! Right down to having Bendis outright have the Skrulls watching the lead-up to Civil War and saying point blank "pass the popcorn!" and ordering the Skrulls to stand down and let the carnage play out without taking a side so they could let their enemies destroy themselves, at which point they then started their 50 State Initiative infiltration.
Fuck, the only character Civil War "fixed" was Hank Pym via absolving him of all culpability in Civil War via being revealed to have been replaced by a Skrull prior to it and even that was done because Marvel finally broke and needed a containment book for fans who hated what Bendis was doing to the Avengers, given how much damage Bendis and Civil War did to the franchise and Marvel in general.
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- May 3, 2019
Yes I did and I saw they used the Skrull plot to retcon a lot of the damage Civil War and other events did to certain characters Spider Woman,Elektra and Hank Pym being prime examples.
Iron Man was so fucked Marvel didn't even bother and just had him get brain damaged to retcon everything they did.
Also Batman and Superman don't secretly hate each other outside of edgy shit like anything Frank Millar writes.
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- Aug 7, 2018
Again, read the story
Elektra was outed as a Skrull outright in the sole story Bendis used her in the New Avengers in that also revealed her as a Skrull and the issue that featured her replacement explicitly stated that said story was the only one of that era which had Elektra as a Skrull.
Similarly, Bendis SHOULD have used Wasp as the Skrull Queen to retcon Avengers Disassembled as a Skrull plot but instead he used Spider-Woman, because he wanted a shock moment that doesn't make any sense in terms of undercutting the entire point of bringing her back to begin with.
I could go on and on, about how fan sourced plot ideas for Secret Invasion as a massive fix fic type deal from angry Marvel fans hoping Secret Invasion would somehow retcon/fix the clusterfuck of failure and AIDS that was mid-00s/post-Avengers Disassembled Marvel were better than what we ultimately got. Secret Invasion was THAT much of a piece of failure in terms of fixing shit, but holds up today only due to the fact that at least it didn't fuck shit up even WORSE compared to Disassembled, House of M, and Civil War.
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- Aug 3, 2017
"Gosh - you thought having Tony Stark running SHIELD was bad? Wait until we hand it over to Norman Osbourne!"
Having the Elektra-Skrull revert to her true form upon death created a major plot hole:
How come she (technically a he) went back to their Skrull form upon death, when the Skrull that replaced Mockingbird and died in her place in Avengers West Coast #100 did not? As you said, Secret Invasion felt like Bendis was just writing to be shocking and edgy, and did not fucking put any thought into the whole thing.
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- Apr 17, 2017
To be fair, I absolutely loved seeing the Marvel Universe temporarily run entirely by villains and loved the Dark Reign and Siege storylines.
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- Mar 9, 2019
Or, in his case, a goose.