#Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

[GranDuke]

all their chants and celebrations got me thinking - does the anti CG crowd even have any kind of attainable win condition in this whole autismfest?

They don't really need one. Existence of Nazis justifies their own existence. Now they can write books about how they are fighting for diversity in comics while yesterday they had nothing.

 

[Buck Mullet]

You certainly get what you pay for, huh

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The impression from the few pages of Iron Sights i've seen is the art is serviceable, but rough and unpolished. Lacking, and certainly not what you would expect from a major publisher.

That said, it's 120 pages. Kudos to any comics artist finishing that large of a project. I will not shit on it based on only seeing a small fraction. Even if the quality of the artwork is consistent with my criticisms, story matters. 120 pages of stick figures could tell a compelling tale.

Lastly, what really matters is six figures, bitch. If a backer is not pleased with the product, they won't be the first to spend money on a promising looking comic, video game, album, or film and be disappointed. That might not bode well for future projects from the creators. But they delivered and meant no ill will toward the consumer. The outpouring of support while simultaneously affecting change in the comics industry is admirable, even if you think it sucks balls.

 

[AnOminous]

The impression I have from the few pages of Iron Sights i've seen is the art is serviceable, but rough and unpolished. Lacking, and certainly not what you would expect from a major publisher.

That said, it's 120 pages. Kudos to any comics artist finishing that large of a project. I will not shit on it based on only seeing a small fraction. Even if the quality of the artwork is consistent with my criticisms, story matters. 120 pages of stick figures could tell a compelling tale.

Lastly, what really matters is six figures, bitch. If a backer is not pleased with the product, they won't be the first to spend money on a promising looking comic, video game, album, or film and be disappointed. That might not bode well for future projects from the creators. But they delivered and meant no ill will toward the consumer. The outpouring of support while simultaneously affecting change in the comics industry is admirable, even if you think it sucks balls.

The art looks workmanlike and serviceable. It certainly isn't pyrotechnics.

It still looks better than shit I've seen just today, like that shitty Ms. Marvel cover where she looks like fucking Plastic Man but without the humor.

 

[Jub-Jub]

I wonder how many of the non-overshipped gay Iceman #1s actually sold, given the photos we saw of the thick stacks. The previous gay Iceman dropped ~12,000 books by number 2 and more than halved by issue 3, I'm going to guess issue 2 of the new gay iceman sells ~12,000 copies. I also think Bordertown's numbers will at least halve with a higher than average drop off due to shit story and art, along with less virtue purchases

Hey, I was pretty close
September #1's (+100% over-ship on Iceman and 'Sold Out' Border Town)

(October issue #2's and #1 reprint)

 

[Steamboat_Bill]

You certainly get what you pay for, huh

View attachment 593322

It looks like something Solson would have published in the 80s. And that's not a compliment. Then again, perhaps Solson would have never published something with panels that look like a storyboard.

With art like that, you could have sent out the comic for, say, $10. Of course, I've also been hearing that the binding for the thing easily falls apart...

(This anti-CG guy did a read-through of the comic: https://www.twitter.com/Jafleece/status/1061115342150385664)

 

[One Man Bland]

Might as well post this since I kinda started this topic. They wouldn’t just make him gay:
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These people are real and Marvel actively panders to them.
https://www.tumblr.com/search/trans boy peter parker
https://www.wattpad.com/stories/trans-peter-parker/hot

All this right here is precisely why Tumblrites & SJWs have no business trying to comment on the male experience. The only points of reference they have are “mlm soft bois uwu,” self-flaggerating hipsters, and predatory male feminists, because they’re shut-ins who hardly go outside, much less speak to a normal man. So they have this extremely unrealistic, and sometimes downright patronizing, view of what being a teenage boy is like and what insecurities and social expectations they’re navigating - hence how you get “he’s trans because he’s short” even though they know he’s played by a short guy and claiming Peter only got bullied for being a nerd and ignore other things that make him a target like being a late bloomer, being poor, or being either socially awkward or flat-out anti-social in some versions. This is like if someone made a bunch of comments that a teenage girl character was totes trans because she gets made fun of for being an A-cup and feels insecure over stray face whiskers or being tall for her age - you’re taking very real things teenage girls go through and insinuating that having those problems means you can’t possibly be female. It’s insulting.

Also you can tell posts like these are made by trenders when they frame scenes like someone stupidly asking peter if he lays eggs and getting an awkward puberty talk as “proof” that Peter’s trans and those people are being supportive. Suddenly someone referencing your trans status with extremely personal/invasive questioning is cute and quirky if it means a Tumblrina tucute can gush over her headcanons.

 

[Capsaicin Addict]

If ever you want a great contrast to what the Old School Comic Guys were like, vs these new Twitter Sperglings, find the movie "Painting With Fire". It's a Frank Frazetta documentary, with a ton of interview footage and Frank just being Frank in the neighborhood. But he talks about what a close knit group the comics guys were in the 60's and 70's. It's like watching the happiest ever episode of The Soprano's. The contrast with creators like Waid and some of these other fools is really striking.

Has the woke brigade gone after any of those old-school artist types? I mean, some of them are dead, and the others are old and really don't give a shit what the dangerhairs think. But I was tempted this past DragonCon to ask Larry Elmore if he ever got flak for some of the cheesecake he'd done.

 

[One Man Bland]

Has the woke brigade gone after any of those old-school artist types? I mean, some of them are dead, and the others are old and really don't give a shit what the dangerhairs think. But I was tempted this past DragonCon to ask Larry Elmore if he ever got flak for some of the cheesecake he'd done.

In my experience: yes and no.

While a lot of Tumblrites and dangerhairs will rail against the perceived sexism of cheesecake in some of the old school art, they rarely ever bother to differentiate between artists. They seem to just see comic creators around earlier than the 90s as this vague, amorphous entity only useful for citing their arguments than researching these artists. It’s way more common to see Tumblr communities like Escher Girls or BABD put up a random Wonder Woman cover after running out of Liefeld art to complain about and screech about how “unrealistic” an action pose is - with the artist behind it being secondary at best.

 

[RodgerDodger]

Has the woke brigade gone after any of those old-school artist types? I mean, some of them are dead, and the others are old and really don't give a shit what the dangerhairs think. But I was tempted this past DragonCon to ask Larry Elmore if he ever got flak for some of the cheesecake he'd done.

Like he said. Yes and no. Watch that Frazetta documentary and it will become clear why the loonie leftists step quietly around some of the old old schoolers and their surviving “family”. Because for many their family is Family!

 

[GranDuke]

It looks like something Solson would have published in the 80s. And that's not a compliment. Then again, perhaps Solson would have never published something with panels that look like a storyboard.

With art like that, you could have sent out the comic for, say, $10. Of course, I've also been hearing that the binding for the thing easily falls apart...

Somewhat defensive attitude towards this thing is surprising (or not surprising I guess) to me. I'm 100% sure that if some SJW did a fund riser and released such low quality product for $20 bucks then he'd get nailed to the cross by CG related people. But since "one of us" did it and he totally intended it to look bad then it is serviceable. Well, it is not. It looks bad and it reads bad.

 

[Mapo Tofu]

Somewhat defensive attitude towards this thing is surprising (or not surprising I guess) to me. I'm 100% sure that if some SJW did a fund riser and released such low quality product for $20 bucks then he'd get nailed to the cross by CG related people. But since "one of us" did it and he totally intended it to look bad then it is serviceable. Well, it is not. It looks bad and it reads bad.

Ain't that how both sides work?
"It ain't bad if we do it"?

 

[Stab You in the Back]

Has the woke brigade gone after

Yes. Always yes. The reason you don't see more of it is because:

1. The old pros have been priced out of the Big Two, so their visibility is way down.
2. Old pros are old and don't have the same online presence as, say, J. Scott Campbell.
3. Tumblrites aren't comic-savvy and would have no idea who half the best cheesecake artists are.

But if the premise, "is the woke brigade offended?" the answer is always "yes." Being angry and offended is a game to these people, and if they can be offended about something, they WILL be offended about something.

Old stories, but relevant:
http://www.heavymetal.com/news/look-whats-happening-to-vampirella-and-red-sonja-and-dejah-thoris/ - Fat Hog Gail Simone redesigns cheesecake heroes Red Sonja and Vampirella. "[A] new look for these iconic characters, blending classic costume elements with the functional, action-ready designs that modern and diverse audiences long to see." (spoiler: they were dumped after a few months because there ain't no diverse audience reading Vampirella you dumb bitch)
https://www.dailydot.com/parsec/riri-williams-variant-cover-iron-man-campbell-controversy/ - Cheesecake artist J. Scott Campbell criticized for drawing teenage girl in the same style he's been drawing teenage girls for the last 25 years.
https://www.polygon.com/2017/7/18/15960690/howard-chaykin-divided-states-of-hysteria-image-comic - Howard Chaykin raked over the coals and forced to apologize because his anti-Trump propaganda comic featured a trans character getting harmed by Trump supporters.
http://www.unleashthefanboy.com/news/the-dark-knight-returns-fascist-power-fantasy/45802 - Frank Miller: "Miller’s artistic downturn also coincides with what many see as a shift in his personality. The once astute social observer has been replaced by a racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, paranoid nutcase."

 

[Kyria the Great]

Hey, I was pretty close
September #1's (+100% over-ship on Iceman and 'Sold Out' Border Town)
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(October issue #2's and #1 reprint)
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For Bordertown, that is some really depressing numbers that the second issue didn't even break 5 digits, so how can they claim if they are popular with this anemic of a performance?

 

[RockVolnutt]

For Bordertown, that is some really depressing numbers that the second issue didn't even break 5 digits, so how can they claim if they are popular with this anemic of a performance?

"You're a dumbass who listens to Alt-Right conspiracists. We have millions of readers on digital platforms and no, we don't have to prove it. Blocked."

 

[damian]

Old stories, but relevant:
http://www.heavymetal.com/news/look-whats-happening-to-vampirella-and-red-sonja-and-dejah-thoris/ - Fat Hog Gail Simone redesigns cheesecake heroes Red Sonja and Vampirella. "[A] new look for these iconic characters, blending classic costume elements with the functional, action-ready designs that modern and diverse audiences long to see." (spoiler: they were dumped after a few months because there ain't no diverse audience reading Vampirella you dumb bitch)

That comment section:

Spoiler: Prof. Matt Morrison

 

[Stock Image Photographer]

That last reply from Matt is peak Then again, he kind of looks like the stereotype, doesn't he?

 

[Capsaicin Addict]

Like he said. Yes and no. Watch that Frazetta documentary and it will become clear why the loonie leftists step quietly around some of the old old schoolers and their surviving “family”. Because for many their family is Family!

That'll discourage things, yeah.

Yes. Always yes. The reason you don't see more of it is because:

1. The old pros have been priced out of the Big Two, so their visibility is way down.
2. Old pros are old and don't have the same online presence as, say, J. Scott Campbell.
3. Tumblrites aren't comic-savvy and would have no idea who half the best cheesecake artists are.

But if the premise, "is the woke brigade offended?" the answer is always "yes." Being angry and offended is a game to these people, and if they can be offended about something, they WILL be offended about something.

Old stories, but relevant:
http://www.heavymetal.com/news/look-whats-happening-to-vampirella-and-red-sonja-and-dejah-thoris/ - Fat Hog Gail Simone redesigns cheesecake heroes Red Sonja and Vampirella. "[A] new look for these iconic characters, blending classic costume elements with the functional, action-ready designs that modern and diverse audiences long to see." (spoiler: they were dumped after a few months because there ain't no diverse audience reading Vampirella you dumb bitch)
https://www.dailydot.com/parsec/riri-williams-variant-cover-iron-man-campbell-controversy/ - Cheesecake artist J. Scott Campbell criticized for drawing teenage girl in the same style he's been drawing teenage girls for the last 25 years.
https://www.polygon.com/2017/7/18/15960690/howard-chaykin-divided-states-of-hysteria-image-comic - Howard Chaykin raked over the coals and forced to apologize because his anti-Trump propaganda comic featured a trans character getting harmed by Trump supporters.
http://www.unleashthefanboy.com/news/the-dark-knight-returns-fascist-power-fantasy/45802 - Frank Miller: "Miller’s artistic downturn also coincides with what many see as a shift in his personality. The once astute social observer has been replaced by a racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, paranoid nutcase."

The irony is that none of those redesigns look terrible (although Vampirella looks like she raided Claire Redfield's closet circa Resident Evil 2. Pffft). Let me guess, though: the stories were shit and worse than shit?

I'm very fond of Elmore's stuff, and the old 80's covers to Dragon Magazine in general. Nowadays the dangerhairs would probably cry in outrage at a sorceress in a skimpy outfit.

 

[TinCan Wizard]

All this right here is precisely why Tumblrites & SJWs have no business trying to comment on the male experience. The only points of reference they have are “mlm soft bois uwu,” self-flaggerating hipsters, and predatory male feminists, because they’re shut-ins who hardly go outside, much less speak to a normal man. So they have this extremely unrealistic, and sometimes downright patronizing, view of what being a teenage boy is like and what insecurities and social expectations they’re navigating - hence how you get “he’s trans because he’s short” even though they know he’s played by a short guy and claiming Peter only got bullied for being a nerd and ignore other things that make him a target like being a late bloomer, being poor, or being either socially awkward or flat-out anti-social in some versions. This is like if someone made a bunch of comments that a teenage girl character was totes trans because she gets made fun of for being an A-cup and feels insecure over stray face whiskers or being tall for her age - you’re taking very real things teenage girls go through and insinuating that having those problems means you can’t possibly be female. It’s insulting.

Also you can tell posts like these are made by trenders when they frame scenes like someone stupidly asking peter if he lays eggs and getting an awkward puberty talk as “proof” that Peter’s trans and those people are being supportive. Suddenly someone referencing your trans status with extremely personal/invasive questioning is cute and quirky if it means a Tumblrina tucute can gush over her headcanons.

I got bullied in school for being a shut in nerd but even I would support bullying these faggots.

 

[GrayWater]

That last reply from Matt is peak Then again, he kind of looks like the stereotype, doesn't he?

Just looked up his name, and our "professor" and "esteemed comics historian" might be nothing more than a blogger pretending to be a journalist, since all I could find were these.
His page on ScreentRant, home of the MovieBlob
The Multiverse, some online rag no one cares about.
A page on MuckRack. This one has some funny shit in here.
Some choice quotes:

What does it mean to be a journalist?
"I'll do you one better. Why does it mean to be a journalist?""

Who do you wish followed you?
"Some rich person who thought everything I said was brilliant and was willing to contribute to my Patreon."

What's the most common misperception about your beat?
"That only out-of-shape, sarcastic, alcoholic virgins write about comics. Some of us can't drink because of heart conditions."

 

[damian]

That last reply from Matt is peak Then again, he kind of looks like the stereotype, doesn't he?

It’s almost like he has a checklist:

He apparently (read unfortunately) likes to cosplay:

Spoiler

I find this tweet funny on multiple levels:
https://twitter.com/geekygeekyways/status/591315373624004609