#Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

[Stock Image Photographer]

From today:
View attachment 564018
Full page for context:
View attachment 564021
Skimmed through, it’s literally a “if you actually get to know them, you’d actually like them” type story:
View attachment 564022

This is somehow worse than any webcomic I've ever seen. You're telling me someone got paid to write this?

 

[Liquid Cool]

View attachment 563741

Heather Antos wants back into the Kewl Komics Klub, looks like that e-sports betting website wasn't her dream job after all

This is way funnier to me than it should be.

Not sure of context or source other than being a Marvel thing but the salt levels must be increasing astronomically lately.

Is the idea of subtlety alien to them?

Imagine being a multi-million dollar company and getting so ass-blasted because a group of autists on youtube and twitter don't like your current content that you have to take shots at them in your product.

Imagine.

 

[damian]

He also wears a trenchcoat and fedora

I mean....this is the kind of shit that DnC or Ethan van Schriver would say is just some over the top parody of what marvel does and yet...here it is. Marvel comics is pouring literally everything into FACK YOU CRITICS! FACK YOU READERS! SURELY NOW THE TUMBLR PEOPLE WILL START PAYING FOR OUR SHIT ANY MINUTE NOW!!!

Like who is even the audience for this? Nobody...I mean NOBODY wants to read a comic thats nothing but a furious tantrum against people who disagree with the writer on fucking twitter, even goddamn ultra-woke SJWs wont even bother pirating this let alone buying it.

The first issue of the series wasn’t exactly subtle as well:

 

[RockVolnutt]

Imagine being a multi-million dollar company and getting so ass-blasted because a group of autists on youtube and twitter don't like your current content that you have to take shot at them in your product.

Imagine.

Imagine being so fat that you look at computers and see food....wait, wrong thread.

 

[AnOminous]

Imagine being a multi-million dollar company and getting so ass-blasted because a group of autists on youtube and twitter don't like your current content that you have to take shots at them in your product.

And I used to think Michael Crichton putting one of his critics in one of his books and making the guy a pedophile was as childish a reaction to critics as any "professional" could get.

 

[Commander X]

Maybe Marvel's sales would be better if Mojo was in charge.

 

[Slowboat to China]

To be fair, if you absolutely must have a villain be a horrible "take that, you bigots!" stand-in for Comicsgate/disgruntled readers, Mojo was probably the best choice. He's OTT personified and can get away with almost anything because his schtick is so hilariously cringey. But then you end up in another of those weird situations where everyone agrees with the villain, and having to agree with Mojo just shows how far storytelling standards have sunk at Marvel.

Also, is that Glob Herman? He's still around? Jesus. I'm not sure "dumbass who set himself on fire during Quentin Quire's X-mansion takeover" is the best choice for a recurring character, but it does sort of fit the current state of things.

As for Heather Antos being a writer, all I can think of is Yahtzee's words:

You know, what pisses me off is that all the things I'm good at are things that everyone assumes they could do if they tried. Playing the bassoon or fluffing a walrus people respect, 'cause there's a specialist skill goes into those, but writing? "Pah! I learnt that in school! Fucking aced it! They made me start doing it all in joined-up letters just to give everyone else a chance!"

I suspect she would be better served as a walrus-fluffer. Her tenure as editor did not give any reasonable person hope for her writing skills.

 

[Adamska]

Maybe Marvel's sales would be better if Mojo was in charge.

He would be better in charge, he is a soulless exec who loves making money and getting his name out and on top; he actually would want to grow the brand.

Hell, a much funnier and better plot would be to utterly spork the SJWs cults with Mojo, who tries to force his own X-Men group to fit what the 'market' wants according to his media specialists and advisors. Cue interesting action session where the old X-men have to survive the new and hip X-men assembled by Mojo for his "show". He then ditches it when the projected numbers actually drop in numbers and executes his media or marketing specialist saying that the demographic he tried to sell to is overblown.

It'd never happen due to Marvel drinking the cool-aid, but then the current staff are manchildren who only watched the cartoons at best, have no shits to give about the IP they're working on, and are paid like shit to fleece the stores since they don't have to worry about direct sales.

 

[Hot Like Bea]

Oh dang. I don’t know if this belongs here. I’m on mobile but twitter woke comics are eating their own over drawing black hair. Jen Bartel has an io9 interview and now black comics crowd are pissed and I just can’t follow. He said she said how dare you block. Anyone got the time to follow this mess?


Further live thread on it
https://twitter.com/itskindred/status/1050146916149940224?s=21

EDIT: if you wanna see the main drama seems to be @itskindred vs @heyjenbartel with @TanekaStotts butting in with @kohquette making it worse. Wow.

 

[Judge Holden]

Slightly off topic from the cringetastrophy thats just been introduced to the thread, but I think at this point one can safely say that no matter what happens now, no matter how desperately future execs and creators try to U-turn and pander to the estranged fans to get them back, no matter how many shitbag creators are publicly fired and castrated, the comics industry as a we know it is pretty much just dead in the water now.

Anne-frankly, even if SJW shit never made it to comics it would still be dead in the water, that shit merely accelerated the consumer haemorrhage. And its all because of one simple reason.

Why should people care what happens next?

People read comics the same reason they consume any other form of fiction. They want a good story (and in the case of comics good artwork to pair it with) and want to see characters they like and find interesting and find relatable to go on adventures, be they mundane or fantastical.....and good stories/good characterisation are just straight up impossible with the soap opera esque "nothing matters! everything can be retconned in a week! characters will change drastically from issue to issue from series to series because reasons!" schtick.

Readers need to become emotionally invested in the story and the characters, and this requires shit to be consistent or else the readers lose all that investment and have to reaquire it with the new altered story/characters. This problem is multiplied with the endless crossover events since that means even more writers will be diddling with the characters and contradicting all kinds of shit

There is a good goddamn reason why the best regarded comics in history have all been self contained limited series only tangentially connected to the wider canon (i.e. Killing Joke and Dark Knight and such) or just straight up divorced entirely from it (i.e. Watchmen....until recently because DC is fucking shameless) and all have had the same writer/writing team create them.

When you see the totality of a story and characterisation within this limited run, you are able to enjoy the stories without baggage and without the characters/story undergoing pointless changes or crossovers or whathaveyou. And shit actually matters since the dead wont be brought back and the injuries and trauma of the characters wont just be forgotten or used to justify dumb character changes the next month.

Basically any ongoing comic series is doomed to just shrivel up as new writers and editorial directives shred the characters and make the stories within pointless and shit gets repeated endlessly and rehashed in ever more tedious ways until it sells negative number issues. Because the most fundamental thing of any good story is...it has to fucking end. Characters have to reach an ultimate and natural end point and plotlines have to be wrapped up, that way the shit contained within actually matters since it wont just be back next month at the status quo.

This means that ongoing comics effectively have become extremely expensive soap operas....which in the past few years have started to actively and openly insult those paying for them. Even the biggest comic book nerd eventually is just gonna say "ya know what, fuck this im out" and find something better and more rewarding to spend his money on....and combined with ubiquitous piracy in the internet age means that comic books in and of themselves are effectively just burning money for its own sake.

This is why Manga and Animeee long since left Comics behind in the Dust, and why I think they have probably at this point absorbed a solid 95% of the old comicbook demographic. Even the worst popular manga/anime has a far more consistent story and characterisation by sheer virtue of nearly always being worked on by the same writer/writing team their entire run, and crossovers are pretty much non existent in the canon of these works. Most importantly, manga and anime actually fucking end sooner or later. Shit that happens in these works and to these characters actually "matters" within the stories and to those emotionally invested.

This isnt to say that weeb shit is inherently perfect. Much of what I said can also be said for the Big Bang Theory so its hardly a matter of quality. Its a matter of structure, use of characters and plots, and consistency coupled with a definitive end point that allows the Manga industry to thrive while western comics are fucking terminal. SJW shit is just the cherry on the top that ensures nobody will mourn its passing

 

[AnOminous]

There is a good goddamn reason why the best regarded comics in history have all been self contained limited series only tangentially connected to the wider canon (i.e. Killing Joke and Dark Knight and such) or just straight up divorced entirely from it (i.e. Watchmen....until recently because DC is fucking shameless) and all have had the same writer/writing team create them.

So in short, the only comics that are any good are written by Alan Moore except that one by Frank Miller.

 

[BlueSpark]

He also wears a trenchcoat and fedora

I mean....this is the kind of shit that DnC or Ethan van Schriver would say is just some over the top parody of what marvel does and yet...here it is. Marvel comics is pouring literally everything into FACK YOU CRITICS! FACK YOU READERS! SURELY NOW THE TUMBLR PEOPLE WILL START PAYING FOR OUR SHIT ANY MINUTE NOW!!!

Like who is even the audience for this? Nobody...I mean NOBODY wants to read a comic thats nothing but a furious tantrum against people who disagree with the writer on fucking twitter, even goddamn ultra-woke SJWs wont even bother pirating this let alone buying it.

The grass, path and trees are just textures that they've used the Blur brush on a little, how fucking lazy are they that they can't even paint in the colours on their comics, Jesus.

 

[Liquid Cool]

Slightly off topic from the cringetastrophy thats just been introduced to the thread, but I think at this point one can safely say that no matter what happens now, no matter how desperately future execs and creators try to U-turn and pander to the estranged fans to get them back, no matter how many shitbag creators are publicly fired and castrated, the comics industry as a we know it is pretty much just dead in the water now.

Anne-frankly, even if SJW shit never made it to comics it would still be dead in the water, that shit merely accelerated the consumer haemorrhage. And its all because of one simple reason.

Why should people care what happens next?

People read comics the same reason they consume any other form of fiction. They want a good story (and in the case of comics good artwork to pair it with) and want to see characters they like and find interesting and find relatable to go on adventures, be they mundane or fantastical.....and good stories/good characterisation are just straight up impossible with the soap opera esque "nothing matters! everything can be retconned in a week! characters will change drastically from issue to issue from series to series because reasons!" schtick. Readers need to become emotionally invested in the story and the characters, and this requires shit to be consistent or else the readers lose all that investment and have to reaquire it with the new altered story/characters. This problem is multiplied with the endless crossover events since that means even more writers will be diddling with the characters and contradicting all kinds of shit

There is a good goddamn reason why the best regarded comics in history have all been self contained limited series only tangentially connected to the wider canon (i.e. Killing Joke and Dark Knight and such) or just straight up divorced entirely from it (i.e. Watchmen....until recently because DC is fucking shameless) and all have had the same writer/writing team create them. When you see the totality of a story and characterisation within this limited run, you are able to enjoy the stories without baggage and without the characters/story undergoing pointless changes or crossovers or whathaveyou. And shit actually matters since the dead wont be brought back and the injuries and trauma of the characters wont just be forgotten or used to justify dumb character changes the next month.

Basically any ongoing comic series is doomed to just shrivel up as new writers and editorial directives shred the characters and make the stories within pointless and shit gets repeated endlessly and rehashed in ever more tedious ways until it sells negative number issues. Because the most fundamental thing of any good story is...it has to fucking end. Characters have to reach an ultimate and natural end point and plotlines have to be wrapped up, that way the shit contained within actually matters since it wont just be back next month at the status quo.

This means that ongoing comics effectively have become extremely expensive soap operas....which in the past few years have started to actively and openly insult those paying for them. Even the biggest comic book nerd eventually is just gonna say "ya know what, fuck this im out" and find something better and more rewarding to spend his money on....and combined with ubiquitous piracy in the internet age means that comic books in and of themselves are effectively just burning money for its own sake.

This is why Manga and Animeee long since left Comics behind in the Dust, and why I think they have probably at this point absorbed a solid 95% of the old comicbook demographic. Even the worst popular manga/anime has a far more consistent story and characterisation by sheer virtue of nearly always being worked on by the same writer/writing team their entire run, and crossovers are pretty much non existent in the canon of these works. Most importantly, manga and anime actually fucking end sooner or later. Shit that happens in these works and to these characters actually "matters" within the stories and to those emotionally invested.

This isnt to say that weeb shit is inherently perfect. Much of what I said can also be said for the Big Bang Theory so its hardly a matter of quality. Its a matter of structure, use of characters and plots, and consistency coupled with a definitive end point that allows the Manga industry to thrive while western comics are fucking terminal. SJW shit is just the cherry on the top that ensures nobody will mourn its passing

The idea is that the editors SHOULD be tracking continuity. People like continuity. People like references. People like deep lore. Comics COULD work if those in power actually cared. But they don't. So the current manner of doing things will inevitably end poorly.

 

[Emperor Julian]

Not sure of context or source other than being a Marvel thing but the salt levels must be increasing astronomically lately.

Is the idea of subtlety alien to them?

I'm not even mad anymore, this is like watching an 40 year old try to be with it with the kids. At this stage all you can feel is a mixture of boredom, 2nd hand embarrisment and bemusement.

This is just sad to watch.

 

[AnOminous]

The idea is that the editors SHOULD be tracking continuity. People like continuity. People like references. People like deep lore. Comics COULD work if those in power actually cared. But they don't. So the current manner of doing things will inevitably end poorly.

This crap is written by people who themselves can't read. So they didn't read the previous comics, plus they think you're so fucking stupid you won't notice. Plus you're literally a Nazi if you do.

 

[Iwasamwillbe]

Not sure of context or source other than being a Marvel thing but the salt levels must be increasing astronomically lately.

Is the idea of subtlety alien to them?

From today:
View attachment 564018
Full page for context:
View attachment 564021
Skimmed through, it’s literally a “if you actually get to know them, you’d actually like them” type story:
View attachment 564022

>"muh changing demographics"

The "browning of America", if it is even real, has not finished yet. And I doubt current minorities/"future majorities" would like this hack writing anyway.

 

[Judge Holden]

So in short, the only comics that are any good are written by Alan Moore except that one by Frank Miller.

Basic economics sums up the problem very well. The only good comics are those that return emotional investment with interest (i.e. emotional payoffs, emotionally satisfactory conclusions, emotional highs and lows) and thus series which reliably make a decent return get a lot of people investing in them, and because limited and self contained series have a definitive beginning and end there is far less chance for the writer to fuck up and lose all that investment.

However with ongoing series, this investment will inevitably be just straight up wiped out when the story and characters are made to radically change beyond recognition by exec/editorial order or the personal whim/autism of a new writer/writing team. When this happens repeatedly, investors all start pulling out and treat the property like its radioactive and will instead put their investment in more reliable properties.

This is inevitable even if the entire writing team and every member of the company is nothing but nice and kind and tolerant and accepting of both readers as a whole and critical fans in particular. When the writers and company goons straight up declare everyone who withdraws investment a depraved rape-nazi manbaby and creates comics of them as caricatured subhuman neckbeard bigot scumbags well....withdrawing that investment becomes a whole lot easier.

 

[Hot Like Bea]

Further update on woke comics Twitter eating itself. Here we have Taneka Stotts (who won an Eisner for the wet fart that is the Elements Fire anthology) facing off with Jen.


Anyone got time to follow this? Heading into work.

 

[knightlautrec]

Not sure of context or source other than being a Marvel thing but the salt levels must be increasing astronomically lately.

Is the idea of subtlety alien to them?

Yeah. A changing demographic that doesn't spend money on your comics. Way to go Marvel. They can go fuck themselves at this point..

 

[RockVolnutt]

>"muh changing demographics"

The "browning of America", if it is even real, has not finished yet. And I doubt current minorities/"future majorities" would like this hack writing anyway.

It's come up before and it's not, at least not how people think it works. It's mostly fudging of numbers and misleading data assuming decades of static trends from people who want that outcome for whatever reason. I bet most people are aware of race not having clear cut borders and the old "one drop" thing, this creates issues for census data. You also have people who push for certain groups to be excluded from "white", Latinos being a perfect example as the label only means you're from Latin America. Also keep in mind, mixed people with light skin tend to consider themselves "white" after a generation or two. Honestly if you fuck around with your definitions, you can basically argue white people never existed or everyone will be white by whatever year of your choosing.

A "brown America" isn't happening for the foreseeable future and even if it did, it's more likely to be a bunch of pale skinned American mongrels shouting "I'M NOT WHITE, I'M 1/256 CHEROKEE!" to each other while their cousins in the Islamic Caliphate of Europe laugh at them. So...not really that different from right now.