Classic Comedy: Was It Ever Funny? - US comedy doesn't hold up?

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

I've seen MASH so many times that I know every episode plot on sight.

Remember the time that they needed Penicillin, and went to the black market to get it and had to give them Henry's desk in payment?

And they flew The Desk away on a Medical Chopper?

 

[TeaBaggins]

Christ, when I clicked this thread I was expecting to see a debate about like Laurel and Hardy or some old comedic literature like Don Quixote, not for the oldest thing you mention to be fucking SNL. Am I the crazy one?

Laurel And Hardy is perfection. There is no debate.

 

[TaimuRadiu]

Re: Roseanne sperging

Most of the series was a reflection of the average poor White American's life, even the revival with the trans person in it. Too bad Roseanne Barr cannot shut the fuck up about stupid bullshit to save her life and the production company thought it was better to kill her character off so that the rest of the people involved could still keep their jobs.

I would not recommend the revival of Roseanne nor The Connors in general. Nor would I recommend any of Roseanne Barr's standup stuff. It's one of those things that's funny in spite of the MC, not because of it.

Re: Bitching about the age of the comedy

It's mostly stuff that's held up by Boomers as perfection that's being debated over here. SCTV is a great sketch comedy programme if you're familiar with how low budget UHF TV stations were back in the day and what it was like to watch one of them in that era, plus the sheer talent in the cast. (I'm almost that old, that I know how it was. While I'm at it watch the movie UHF.) SNL was peak in the first five seasons, had another peak in the late 80s early 90s, then the programme just got worse and worse except for Norm and the SNL Digital Shorts.

Laurel and Hardy is timeless, Abbott and Costello are good but can be hit or miss, everybody loves the "classic" Three Stooges of Larry Curly and Moe. Jack Benny was consistently funny. I'd recommend OP get into what in the USA is called Old Time Radio and do a deep dive into Jack Benny and Fred Allen. I'd also recommend Fibber McGee and Molly, hugely influential, everybody loved it even if it was formulaic. The Great Gildersleeve holds up. George Burns and Gracie Allen were great on radio but much better on television. Our Miss Brooks, My Friend Irma, and of course if you're listening to Jack Benny you have to listen to Phil Harris and Alice Faye, there's even a tranny joke in one episode. (Phil says something like "If I find that one doctor in Denmark I could be someone's sister")

Some recs. Check them out if you want, OTR is all on archive.org.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

I think the key to good comedy is not being too easily offended.

 

[TeaBaggins]

Re: Roseanne sperging

Most of the series was a reflection of the average poor White American's life, even the revival with the trans person in it. Too bad Roseanne Barr cannot shut the fuck up about stupid bullshit to save her life and the production company thought it was better to kill her character off so that the rest of the people involved could still keep their jobs.

I would not recommend the revival of Roseanne nor The Connors in general. Nor would I recommend any of Roseanne Barr's standup stuff. It's one of those things that's funny in spite of the MC, not because of it.

I also don't recommend watching that cringey rap video she did with that Canadian guy (who was singing about American politics despite not being American) because that's ten times more cringey than The Connors.

So, I did watch most of the seasons of The Connors. The biggest problem with the show was that it was way more depressing than the original show, and it never got out of that mood, down to the final episode. It was also weird seeing Dan dating and marrying Louise (Katey Sagal) after growing up watching Dan and Roseanne together. It just wasn't the same. Especially the chemistry.

I also think they royally screwed over Michael Fishman. The entire show revolved around Becky and Darlene while DJ was pretty much written off the show and severely underused. If the writers couldn't give the family members equal time, then there really was no point in continuing it.

At least the official Roseanne show involved stories about all the family members instead of just starring Sara Gilbert. Laurie Metcalf, who was one of the best actresses on the original show, her character was also pretty much destroyed. Although tbh, we saw hints of that in the original show too when they turned her into comic relief.

So, TLDR: The Connors was average, but not as good as the original show.

 

[TaimuRadiu]

The entire show revolved around Becky and Darlene while DJ was pretty much written off the show and severely underused.

so just like the original then got it

Laurie Metcalf is honestly just a fantastic actress in general. I liked her on The Big Bang Theory and Young Sheldon. (You may judge me for liking those programmes since I honestly thought they were funny and / or heartwarming.)

 

[TeaBaggins]

so just like the original then got it

Laurie Metcalf is honestly just a fantastic actress in general. I liked her on The Big Bang Theory and Young Sheldon. (You may judge me for liking those programmes since I honestly thought they were funny and / or heartwarming.)

Kind of. In the original show you at least saw him in the background and he got a few lines to show he was in the family. In a lot of The Connors episodes, he didn't even get one line, and most of the time he didn't get a single scene. It's really a shame, because they could have actually done some good stories all about his military background, his PTSD, etc.

They also turned David's character into an absentee father who wasn't reliable, when in the original show he never acted like that.

Yeah, the show was definitely a big disappointment.

 

[Sock Cucker]

And they flew The Desk away on a Medical Chopper?

Season 1, IIRC. Henry in his bathrobe , with Frank beside him. Gazing into the sky, as the desk flies away. First year was the most subversive, as the whole premise was a commentary on Vietnam (original movie, especially). I don't know if I would call MASH a classic, but I would say it's an iconic piece of television. The commentary (subtle or not so subtle) that was allowed on US policy overseas on one of the 3 corporate TV broadcast channels at that time will never be seen again. Frankly, I wonder if that kind of criticism will ever be allowed again, anywhere, in the US.

Thanks for reminding me of one of my favorite episodes.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

I can't enjoy Roseanne
I see too much of Whedon in it

there's a funny animal cartoon reboot of Amos and Andy that's an interesting-ish curiosity

 

[Captain Syrup]

The biggest problem with the show was that it was way more depressing than the original show

I remember watching the finale and thinking "That’s it? That’s how it ends?" They basically sold out to the same oxy company that killed his wife, and not even for a big payday, just some paltry-ass settlement they knew he’d take because they counted on him never going to court. It was the kind of hush money that might get you through one more month of electric bills.

And I don’t say this lightly, but the Connors remind me more than a little of Shameless, if Shameless hated you less. Every time they get a win, they get booted right back to the bottom of the chute like they’re playing the world’s most depressing game of Chutes and Ladders, but the board is just one big chute.

My other big beef is how fast Dan ends up with Katey Sagal after Roseanne dies. Not even because I’m morally against him moving on, but she is supposed to be this aging rock chick with an attitude, but on screen she has the presence of a side character from a Life Alert commercial. I swear to God I don’t even remember her character’s name. No chemistry with Goodman, no arc, no bite.

That said, The Conners is... kind of based? Roseanne couldn’t just bounce from Walmart to Perkins anymore. That kind of working-class elasticity doesn’t exist. Everyone’s either gig-working, running a doomed family business, or getting fired from whatever service job hasn’t been eaten yet. The only one trying to “do it like mom did” is Darlene, and she gets canned so many times I’m surprised she didn’t just start selling scrap metal out of the back of the Lunch Box.

I FUCKING FORGOT ABOUT NAKED GUN ITS SO PEAK HOLY SHIT

I agreed to see the Naked Gun reboot when it premieres, and I’m already dreading it like a court summons. I couldn’t figure out what was bothering me (beyond the obvious) but then it hit me that they scrubbed all the adult jokes. The original NG was basically a 70's-style sex comedy. Like, the DNA was Get Smart meets Boeing Boeing for some flavor.

What really depressed me is that everyone from the original is dead. Leslie Nielsen, Ricardo Montalban, Robert Goulet, George Kennedy, (yes) OJ....even Anna Nicole Smith. (And not only did she kill it, but her ability to give me a stiffy has aged better than the Matrix visual effects.)

 

[Judge Dredd]

Cheers

All I know about that is people watch it for feet going past the windows, and something with the actor looking older than he is. Oh, and the theme song.

Soap

Supposedly that ended on a cliff hanger.

First season is notoriously unfunny, but second season onwards it hits its stride in the 4th-5th seasons, afterwards it leans more towards the wacky situations but still fantastic.

I'll try skipping ahead and giving it another chance.

Stand-up comedy is universally bad.

On the subject of stand up comedians, to me it's a lot of duds these days, depending on the comedian.

UK TV comedy of the same era seem very class-oriented. Which isn't something Americans easily relate to.

95% of stand up comedy from the states.
"Race, race, race race race, racism race race, president, race."

The other 5%? Same as above but replace "race" with "jews".

For British comics, it's hard to name ones Americans would like. Lee Evans might be a safe bet? Jack Dee maybe?

Louis CK

Him and George Carlin get name dropped a lot. Or used to until Louis CK was cancelled for masturbating into a pot plant or something.

George Carlin seems good. I only ever see his bits about him complaining about the state of the world.

This thread is just going to degrade to recommendations from a certain era in order to justify that quality old comedies existed:

I'm fine with that.

Christ, when I clicked this thread I was expecting to see a debate about like Laurel and Hardy or some old comedic literature like Don Quixote, not for the oldest thing you mention to be fucking SNL. Am I the crazy one?

Sorry. I didn't know.

As I said in the OP, as a Brit I only ever heard praise from yanks about SNL, Steven Colbert, and Seinfeld. I didn't know these were normie tier shit most people don't like.


Someone mentioned canned/live audience laughter. It varies for me. I usually don't like it, but some episodes of Red Dwarf aren't right without it. I think the laugher is factored into the pace of some of the episodes?

though the Olde English accents were sometimes tough to understand

Wait until you find out about Rab C Nesbitt

 

[Gregis]

Sorry. I didn't know.

Lol, part of it is I clicked from the "most recent thread" thing off the front page so I didn't see the subtitle. I just went into it with a slightly different expectation of "classic comedy". Obviously Cervantes was not American, he died before the Mayflower sailed. I think Don Quixote is pretty funny for the record, but it's a bit of a downer when the author-insert character starts talking about getting tortured in a Turkish prison.

Spoiler: Cervantes sperging

I was just going to be flippant and leave it there, but I have thoughts about Don Quixote so fuck it. That part is a huge tonal shift, but it absolutely heightens the comedy of the overall situation and plot of the story to have a real, grounded adventure story included to contrast Quixote's delusions, which are a commentary on the popular fantastic literature of the time. The fact that most of that shit really happened to Cervantes gives him the gravitas to carry off his critiques. There's another scene where the priest character judges all the fantasy books in Quixote's library, deciding which to save and which to burn, and it's just Cervantes' little corner of his story where he gets to insert his own opinions of his fellow authors and figuratively torch their works. Btw I said Cervantes was not American, but there is an amusing connection: California is actually named after a fictional land from the Spanish novel The Adventures of Esplandian; this is the first book that Cervantes' priest condemns to the pyre.

Someone mentioned canned/live audience laughter. It varies for me. I usually don't like it, but some episodes of Red Dwarf aren't right without it. I think the laugher is factored into the pace of some of the episodes?

Yeah canned laughter to my mind pretty much just signifies slop, although sometimes people use it to mock the practice, e.g. Monty Python constantly cutting away to that same clip of the audience applauding. But it won't help to remove it because the show is paced that way and it will just become incredibly awkward. Live stuff I think is fine, the actors are playing off of the audience and you just have to suspend disbelief that they sort of just stare at each other for a second while waiting for the laughs to stop because you wouldn't hear the lines otherwise. Plus it gives everything some stakes, you can't get the same reaction from an audience twice so they're trying to get their takes the first time. I know Seinfeld was shot like that, and obviously Saturday Night is Live. I'll second the opinion that the first season of Seinfeld absolutely sucks.

 

[Neodanthril]

Examples of good American comedy. Trying to select for distinctly American and not just personal taste

Television
I love Lucy
The dick van dyke show
The Andy Griffith show
The Beverly hillbillies
Green acres and petticoat junction are alright, much funnier than the shit on air today
Carol Burnett show
And then Jews took over the country and decided that television needed to be about niggers and their problems.

Movies
Yours mine and ours starting Lucille Ball and Henry Fonda
Grumpy old men
It's a mad mad mad mad world or however many repetitions it has
The long long trailer
Beverly hills cop
Robocop is a black comedy
Ghostbusters
Don't be a menace to South Central while drinking your juice in the hood

Comedians
Shane gillis

 

[TaimuRadiu]

Examples of good American comedy. Trying to select for distinctly American and not just personal taste

Television
I love Lucy
The dick van dyke show
The Andy Griffith show
The Beverly hillbillies
Green acres and petticoat junction are alright, much funnier than the shit on air today
Carol Burnett show
And then Jews took over the country and decided that television needed to be about niggers and their problems.

Movies
Yours mine and ours starting Lucille Ball and Henry Fonda
Grumpy old men
It's a mad mad mad mad world or however many repetitions it has
The long long trailer
Beverly hills cop
Robocop is a black comedy
Ghostbusters

Comedians
Shane gillis

I can't believe I forgot to say WATCH GREEN ACRES

It's timeless absurdist comedy. A rich city lawyer and his spoiled wife move to a decrepit old farmhouse into a rural town filled with characters.

I don't think anyone argues that Ghostbusters isn't fucking hilarious.

Also all TV was a Jew joint, so was old time radio. Jews have always been the people writing mass media comedy.

I Love Lucy is literally just "My Favorite Husband" but translated to TV, and with Lucy having an ethnic husband. (Not sure if White American x White Cuban counts as an interracial marriage or not; light skinned niggers used to say they were "Cuban" in order to get White privilege in the pre Civil Rights South)

 

[draggs]

classic american comedy has like 5 different eras and OP, sir, you only talked about the surface level of the most recent one

watch some rodney dangerfield or don rickles stand up and get back to me. then start going even farther back

 

[cleanerfromvenus]

This still holds up, although a lot of his work doesn't. The best american comedy is inherently vulgar.

 

[Neodanthril]

I Love Lucy is literally just "My Favorite Husband" but translated to TV

Yes, and my favorite husband is still pretty good too for what it is. I was going to mention it but forgot. To be fair to I love Lucy though it did pioneer the multi camera sitcom

 

[Registration]

On the subject of stand up comedians, to me it's a lot of duds these days, depending on the comedian. I did grow up watching a ton of stand up comedians, so I remember enough. I do think a lot of the ones from decades ago were hilarious, compared to ones I've seen now. For example, ones like Dave Attell (from Insomniac fame on Comedy Central in the early 00's) or Louis CK, Greg Giraldo or Patrice O'Neal (RIP to both) or ones like Anthony Jeselnik, who pretty much somehow made really dark jokes funny in my opinion, have been hilarious to me. And if I want to go across the country, Dylan Moran still makes me laugh, from either watching Black Books or his stand up, enough to make me see him twice on stage when he performed. There are some great stand up comedians.

But my god, I can't name a single stand up comedian these days who stands out enough for me to name.



Speaking of classic comedy, Newsradio is still hilarious to me when it comes to older sitcom comedies. Roseanne had her moments too, until that dreaded season 9. But seasons 1 to 5 still hold up, which funny enough Tom Arnold was behind a lot of that.

Recently I discovered Dave Chappelle on YouTube shorts (not American) and he always steals me some laughs. What I liked about him is that he has a complete dominance in narrative, he understood how to tell a joke in the most perfect way, it is incredibly how he controls it. The joke may not even be the funniest but his technique is god tier.

And sometimes I see his young days videos and he was so quick, but I like the old man version better.

 

[TeaBaggins]

Recently I discovered Dave Chappelle on YouTube shorts (not American) and he always steals me some laughs. What I liked about him is that he has a complete dominance in narrative, he understood how to tell a joke in the most perfect way, it is incredibly how he controls it. The joke may not even be the funniest but his technique is god tier.

And sometimes I see his young days videos and he was so quick, but I like the old man version better.

Oh, he's hilarious.

 

[Peaches the Wonder Cat]

WKRP counts as a 70s sitcom but most of the original music was replaced for syndication and then the first round of home video; from what I understand the Shout Factory DVDs have the music mostly restored.

Of course the best WKRP scene doesn't even have music.