Chris - The Legal Issues - A Prosecutor's Perspective

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I am not American so could be wrong. But I have heard that most trials there don't even have a jury by default and that they have to be requested by the defendant, otherwise it's just the judge who makes the call.

If that's true, then maybe it would be in Chris' best interests if he didn't have one.
You have it backwards. In the U.S., jury trials are default in criminal cases, and if the defendant doesn't want one, they have to request a bench trial where the judge decides their guilt or innocence in place of a jury.

The outcome of bench trials still isn't assured even if you (the collective "you") know the judge's track record with cases like yours (judges are human, too, and their opinions and values can change over time) so either way, it's a gamble. Bench trials are actually relatively uncommon (less than 16% in most jurisdictions iirc) because most criminal defense attorneys and defendants feel juries are the better gamble.
 
I am not American so could be wrong. But I have heard that most trials there don't even have a jury by default and that they have to be requested by the defendant, otherwise it's just the judge who makes the call.

If that's true, then maybe it would be in Chris' best interests if he didn't have one.

The defendant essentially gets to choose between a bench or jury trial. A bench trial is just the judge. It is common in lower courts (misdemeanors and low grade felonies in jurisdictions that empower lower courts to hear felonies) to default to a bench trial. If you are dissatisfied with the outcome, you can appeal the decision to a higher court and request a jury or bench trial. It is very rare for low level cases like a DWI or low level larceny to receive a jury trial. It could happen but it would be exceedingly expensive and time consuming for everyone involved. It is accordingly unusual for a higher level felony to receive a bench trial. But, the accused could have a bench trial if he wanted, barring state rules to the contrary.

(Texas is a notable exception. You can demand a jury trial for a traffic ticket!)

If a decision is elevated above the trial courts (the vast majority of states have district and superior courts as trial courts, district being the lower court) you may appeal further to the appellate courts, where your case is heard by a panel of judges. The number of judges on these panels varies by state (as well as varies for feds). Beyond that, you are generally within the purview of your jurisdiction's supreme court, who is the final word... most of the time.

As a very general rule if you are facing a criminal offense and appeal a decision, you can be released either on bond or your own recognizance pending your superior court hearing date(s). Also very generally, the superior court decision tends to end in remand, and you are likely to remain in custody while your appeal works it's way through.

If you are dissatisfied with the state supreme court ruling, you can then take it up with the feds, who will follow a similar scheme of going from trial or administrative court to an appellate court to potentially an en banc hearing (where all of the judges in a district confer together) to the federal supreme court.

Bear in mind outside of the trial courts an appeal may be rejected- most are totally or nearly groundless. The courts are clogged with inmates with access to prison libraries writing petitions and demanding appeals because the cops didn't have "probably cause" or because they believe exculpatory evidence was withheld or some shit.

Bear in mind that even if an appeal is successful, that does not mean an immediate exoneration. The grounds may have just been that the trial was flawed or prejudiced for some reason, and the defendant may be remanded to local custody to await a new trial. I do not want to reveal my state but I was recently subpoenaed to testify in a case that was heard almost 5 years ago that ended in a conviction... the conviction was vacated because the appellate court decided that some questions the DA asked the expert witness, and the witness's answers, influenced the jury's opinion of the victim/witness too heavily, and gave her undue credibility... the defendant is now sitting in the county lockup after several years in prison. Good thing I keep good notes.

As I said in an earlier post, whatever other countries may think of the American justice system, you have a zillion opportunities for recourse at every outlet and all you need is a small doubt to defeat a charge.
 
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It's like the quote about how can people get cyberbullied, because they can just turn off the computer. At the end of the day, Chris made a choice. It was a really, really bad choice. And maybe he has some diminished responsibility for that choice because he's not all there. But nobody held a gun to his head. Nobody put him under the kind of duress where a reasonable person would have felt forced to do this. He seems to have done it, repeatedly, before ever bragging to people about it. He could have just hung up the phone. Instead he seemed almost eager to share. Which of course he was, because it's Chris. He even told Null (paraphrased) "I've given several people clues and I really hope you all get together and figure it out." He's BTK writing letters to the police.
This reminds me of actors, particularly minors telling how their parents pushed them to do something they didnt want to, how their agents told them to do stupid shit so they would get free publicity from tabloids, how directors would bully them into doing more risque scenes and other shit, same with models

Like it or not chris never had that kind of pressure, nobody told him to make a complete ass of himself online but he kept doing it
 
Bench trials are actually relatively uncommon (less than 16% in most jurisdictions iirc) because most criminal defense attorneys and defendants feel juries are the better gamble.
Most of the time it comes down to playing the numbers. In most jurisdictions, for a prosecutor to secure a conviction, you need to persuade twelve jurors unanimously of the defendant's guilt (note: some states do not require there to be twelve jurors, but the verdict must be unanimous ala Ramos). In other words, for a defendant to keep his case alive, the defendant only needs to convince one person to create a hung jury. If a jury ends up hung, a mistrial is declared, and the entire trial has to be redone. A mistrial buys time for the defendant if he's out on bond and puts pressure on the prosecution to offer a favorable plea agreement or drop the case entirely. The setup naturally favors defendants by design.

Bench trials are typically invoked by defendants when the facts are particularly unsympathetic or the conviction rests on a complex issue of law, rather than facts. If you get a total shitbag defendant, a jury might vote to convict on the basis that the defendant is a shitbag, for instance, rather than the substantive nature of the charges. By the same metric, if the offense is legally complex and requires a difficult analysis, a judge might be a better evaluator in that instance.
 
ANY CHANCE OF SETTING OP A CHRIS-CHAN LEGAL DEFENSE FUND?!

That we can contribute to?

I don’t give a fuck if he’s found guilty or not, but a private lawyer might extend the hilarious spectacle longer than your average shit-for-pay I-have-50-other-cases public defender.

I will send fifty cents to retain the services of Russell Greer, who can be Chris' paralegal (that's practically like having an attorney, after all) and also provide expert testimony on how you should be a sex pest.

He is also extremely high on my list of "cows who probably have very compromising material stored electronically".
 
ANY CHANCE OF SETTING OP A CHRIS-CHAN LEGAL DEFENSE FUND?!

That we can contribute to?

I don’t give a fuck if he’s found guilty or not, but a private lawyer might extend the hilarious spectacle longer than your average shit-for-pay I-have-50-other-cases public defender.
I would not be surprised if there was already one set up, likely by the pronoun police. I'm not going to go looking, though.

However, even the pronoun police have started splintering into 2 groups- the "identity is paramount" and the "no true Scotsman" groups are equally amusing to watch.
 
I will send fifty cents to retain the services of Russell Greer, who can be Chris' paralegal (that's practically like having an attorney, after all) and also provide expert testimony on how you should be a sex pest.

He is also extremely high on my list of "cows who probably have very compromising material stored electronically".
Best crossover ever!

Greer’s opening statement would be his usual babble about handicapped being discriminated against in dating,

Chris would listen halfhearted, unable to decipher most of what slurpy is saying, but get the last part and pipe up with a “YES! WE NEED DATING EDUCATION IN HIGH SCHOOL!”

I would not be surprised if there was already one set up, likely by the pronoun police. I'm not going to go looking, though.

However, even the pronoun police have started splintering into 2 groups- the "identity is paramount" and the "no true Scotsman" groups are equally amusing to watch.
But they don’t have any money! And the little money they have is spent on tranny porn.
 
I asked this elsewhere but hadn't seen this thread, where my question is far more appropriate:

There has been at least some implication in the past that Barb has been a little too hands-on with Chris. Molestation? No proof, just something where for years we've heard little snippets or seen videos of the two interacting and it seemed like their dynamic wasn't exactly normal.

For sake of argument and simply because I'm curious, let's imagine Barb molested him first, had been doing so well before Chris ever did anything to her, we have actual proof of this on par with the proof we have of Chris raping her, and that Chris' actions now are essentially a continuation of a dynamic she had started years ago.

What happens then? What does this do to the case and how Chris would be prosecuted? I realize that realistically there's not enough tangible evidence to support this, but the "what if" of the situation intrigues me, especially given that yeah, there was some degree of inappropriate conduct/behavior between the two before.
 
Best crossover ever!

Greer’s opening statement would be his usual babble about handicapped being discriminated against in dating,

Chris would listen halfhearted, unable to decipher most of what slurpy is saying, but get the last part and pipe up with a “YES! WE NEED DATING EDUCATION IN HIGH SCHOOL!”
Add on Melinda Scott as co-counsel and we'd have a full on comedy routine. Her legal filings are... special.

Thank goodness for their lack of bar cards.

Edited due to browser fuckery
 
I asked this elsewhere but hadn't seen this thread, where my question is far more appropriate:

There has been at least some implication in the past that Barb has been a little too hands-on with Chris. Molestation? No proof, just something where for years we've heard little snippets or seen videos of the two interacting and it seemed like their dynamic wasn't exactly normal.

For sake of argument and simply because I'm curious, let's imagine Barb molested him first, had been doing so well before Chris ever did anything to her, we have actual proof of this on par with the proof we have of Chris raping her, and that Chris' actions now are essentially a continuation of a dynamic she had started years ago.

What happens then? What does this do to the case and how Chris would be prosecuted? I realize that realistically there's not enough tangible evidence to support this, but the "what if" of the situation intrigues me, especially given that yeah, there was some degree of inappropriate conduct/behavior between the two before.
I'm fairly certain you can't rape someone in self defense, just sayin'. Though, in all seriousness, mitigating factors would be something for his counsel to strategize on given all the information.
 
I don’t give a fuck if he’s found guilty or not, but a private lawyer might extend the hilarious spectacle longer than your average shit-for-pay I-have-50-other-cases public defender.
I nominate Avenatti. You just know he would put on the best show. And as a bonus he would also completely (metaphorically) screw his client over, so it'd be win-win for the studio audience.
 
Most of the time it comes down to playing the numbers. In most jurisdictions, for a prosecutor to secure a conviction, you need to persuade twelve jurors unanimously of the defendant's guilt (note: some states do not require there to be twelve jurors, but the verdict must be unanimous ala Ramos). In other words, for a defendant to keep his case alive, the defendant only needs to convince one person to create a hung jury. If a jury ends up hung, a mistrial is declared, and the entire trial has to be redone. A mistrial buys time for the defendant if he's out on bond and puts pressure on the prosecution to offer a favorable plea agreement or drop the case entirely. The setup naturally favors defendants by design.

Bench trials are typically invoked by defendants when the facts are particularly unsympathetic or the conviction rests on a complex issue of law, rather than facts. If you get a total shitbag defendant, a jury might vote to convict on the basis that the defendant is a shitbag, for instance, rather than the substantive nature of the charges. By the same metric, if the offense is legally complex and requires a difficult analysis, a judge might be a better evaluator in that instance.
100%, thank you for expanding and educating on my very condensed take. There's so much nuance to the decision.
 
I'm fairly certain you can't rape someone in self defense, just sayin'. Though, in all seriousness, mitigating factors would be something for his counsel to strategize on given all the information.

Yeah I'm not saying they'd drop charges, I just mean that.....laws often work in degrees of severity, and I'd imagine that if someone raped a person that'd formerly raped them, especially in the context of that person being autistic, then there might be quite a bit of leniency provided.

Having said that though, Chris' life is so wild there's no precedent for this. I can't say I've ever heard of an autistic person with a creepy relationship with his mother later raping her when she was old and mentally unsound.

I just find it to be an interesting question from a legal perspective. The legal system tries to provide for every possible situation, but to my hypothetical if we uncovered evidence Barb used to molest him, then I have no idea how it would affect the case (if at all) and I wonder how the courts would approach it.
 
I asked this elsewhere but hadn't seen this thread, where my question is far more appropriate:

There has been at least some implication in the past that Barb has been a little too hands-on with Chris. Molestation? No proof, just something where for years we've heard little snippets or seen videos of the two interacting and it seemed like their dynamic wasn't exactly normal.

For sake of argument and simply because I'm curious, let's imagine Barb molested him first, had been doing so well before Chris ever did anything to her, we have actual proof of this on par with the proof we have of Chris raping her, and that Chris' actions now are essentially a continuation of a dynamic she had started years ago.

What happens then? What does this do to the case and how Chris would be prosecuted? I realize that realistically there's not enough tangible evidence to support this, but the "what if" of the situation intrigues me, especially given that yeah, there was some degree of inappropriate conduct/behavior between the two before.
In a strictly legal sense it probably doesn't do much. Being victimized is not license to commit a crime against your abuser. (Justifiable use of force to prevent imminent harm is a different story, but you're scenario doesn't fall under that). And to be honest, as far as sexual assault goes, the scenario you presented is relatively common. Many defendants are both victims and perpetrators of such conduct, although not necessarily with the same party as in your example.

As a practical matter, it would come down to a prosecutor's discretion on what to charge. The prosecutor would likely choose which party he feels is more culpable, charge them, and then grant some sort of immunity or plea deal to the other party in exchange for testimony.

Beyond that I'm not going to say much else, prosecutors in this thread probably have more info on the practicality. There are so many evidentiary rules and counter rules regarding prior bad acts, rape shield protections, and the like that without the specific evidence and facts it's really impossible to speculate too much on how things would proceed.
 
Most criminal cases never make it to trial (whether by judge or jury), that’s true, but are plea bargained out.

To increase the chances of this happening, prosecutors often overcharge.
I would expect that time to come any time from a few days to a few weeks. Based on the emergency nature of Chris's removal they probably haven't fully investigated yet. Depending on what they find I could see actual rape and abuse/neglect of a disabled adult, depending on Barb's actual level of mental health.
For sake of argument and simply because I'm curious, let's imagine Barb molested him first, had been doing so well before Chris ever did anything to her, we have actual proof of this on par with the proof we have of Chris raping her, and that Chris' actions now are essentially a continuation of a dynamic she had started years ago.
There wasn't actual rape that we know of, but there was seriously inappropriate sex-adjacent behavior like forcing him to spoon with her in bed on threat of breaking his things. And he's said fairly consistently he approves of sex between parents and children. Could he argue the way he was raised fucked him up so much, especially in light of his autism, that he can't tell right from wrong on that issue? Maybe but I doubt it would work as a full defense.

He also does seem to grasp it's illegal and took at least some effort to conceal it, even while inexplicably spilling his guts to a troll who promptly ratted him out (even though that was pretty much the right call under the circumstances).

You can't really predict what even a judge will do much less a jury. Sometimes the prosecutor brings an A game and all the evidence they should have needed and they get a holdout juror for whatever reason. And suppose Chris claims he was just lying to impress some troll, the rape kit comes up empty, and Barb refuses to cooperate. There's not really much way to magic up a case out of nothing. There are also serious hearsay questions about the tape. Unless Chris takes the stand and denies everything, it possibly can't be used directly for the purpose of proving his guilt.

A number of hearsay exceptions come to mind, most prominently that a statement like this is an "admission against interest," i.e. nobody would say this shit unless it was true because it is a confession of a serious crime. I think the prosecutions wins on that if it's contested. And then if the court finds a hearsay exception to apply, the question becomes whether it is more prejudicial than probative. Again, I think the prosecution wins this, even though it is both hugely prejudicial and hugely probative.

This doesn't have the issue of, for instance, being obtained by the police without a Miranda warning, because he freely confessed this shit to a civilian.

There could be ways of discrediting such evidence, i.e. for instance they find evidence the troll scripted his entire speech and there's good cause to believe it is fake, it turns out to be a sophisticated audio deepfake (incredibly unlikely), etc.
 
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Michele Carter is a great example of the risks of bench trial.
SUPER unpopular opinion but IMO Michelle Carter's bench trial was the absolute best case scenario for the facts involved barring some plea arrangement. Almost all the relevant evidence would probably have severely prejudiced Carter to a jury when the conduct and mental state involved were actually in a legal grey area, if completely ethically reprehensible from a surface reading. I would say that she got the sentence she deserved based on the facts and operative laws of Mass., but can see how people are like 98% on the side of she got off too light (because in a purely moral sense, she did deserve more punishment), and 2% on the side of she shouldn't have been convicted at all (because they are pathetic simps who want to be told to kill themselves by a teenage girl too)
 
SUPER unpopular opinion but IMO Michelle Carter's bench trial was the absolute best case scenario for the facts involved barring some plea arrangement. Almost all the relevant evidence would probably have severely prejudiced Carter to a jury when the conduct and mental state involved were actually in a legal grey area, if completely ethically reprehensible from a surface reading. I would say that she got the sentence she deserved based on the facts and operative laws of Mass., but can see how people are like 98% on the side of she got off too light (because in a purely moral sense, she did deserve more punishment), and 2% on the side of she shouldn't have been convicted at all (because they are pathetic simps who want to be told to kill themselves by a teenage girl too)
I know it's not directly related to Chris's situation but I'm glad you posted this because I have said the same before and had colleagues get incensed, telling me I was not thinking in the interest of justice and "hiding behind the law," which is hilarious when you really think about it.

Activist lawyers are a cancer eating the profession, and I'm seeing these woke bottom feeders circling Chris's case on twitter more and more. Oh, to have that post one or two years out of law school naivety once more.

My idle fantasy at this point is that one of these twitter lawyers is licensed in VA and actually takes his case. They'll get crucified upside down, because its clear none of the armchair law professors commenting outside of the farms has followed Chris before the events of the past week.
 
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